Fresh Meat II: Episode 2

[QUOTE=SteveSparxx;168613]I think the whole dealing with individual competition is one of the reasons why that Kenny didn't take part in the Duel 2 Challenge.[/QUOTE] Why would you say that?

[QUOTE=AMGerl;168575]I agree! This is Kenny's chance to prove to all the haters that he can make it without Evan. I think he will win :)[/QUOTE] Yeah, I definitely think he has a chance. Even if he doesn't take the whole thing, I still think he's already proven himself quite a bit just by the way he's handled himself thus far. I've been surprised with him.

[QUOTE=SteveSparxx;168613]I think the whole dealing with individual competition is one of the reasons why that Kenny didn't take part in the Duel 2 Challenge.[/QUOTE] Do we have any evidence of Kenny being offered an invitation to D2 and turning it down? Or is this just speculation?

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168627]Do we have any evidence of Kenny being offered an invitation to D2 and turning it down? Or is this just speculation?[/QUOTE] It's obviously speculation.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168543]You can't [I]know[/I] someone would be coming back. Except for Jill and Pete, no one knew what the Exiles were, and even this one was different. That's the thing about eliminations--they are unpredictable. What if Kenny and Laurel took forever to do the puzzles? Sarah and Vinny really weren't that far behind and had a decent chance. [/QUOTE] But he did KNOW. He said it in the dailies. Granted, he was probably hoping he could keep his faux alliance going with Kenny, but I still think he believed it. Landon said it too. Of course they didn't know... they couldn't tell the future.... there could have been an upset... but going in, people had a feeling Kenny would be coming back. And yeah, Sarah and Vinny definitely had a chance and they competed well, but I don't think that changes the fact that most people thought Kenny had it. [QUOTE]As for the leeway, he's losing it. Alliances are funny things; almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. If he doesn't have the numbers, no matter who wins and who gets picked to go in, he STILL won't get his way in the voting.[/quote] Oh, I know he doesn't have the numbers, but I'm saying I have no doubt he'll build them back up. Politically, Kenny knows how to play the game. Wes... I don't think he does. So although his numbers are dwindling, I really doubt that's going to be a continuing factor. And if it is, I still think he has a chance at bringing it home. He's a good competitor and even if he does get sent in continuously, I still think he's got Wes and everyone in his alliance (excluding Landon if you even want to consider him part of Wes's alliance) beat. [QUOTE]In G3, Evan picked Johnny to go against in the Gauntlet. They might not have been super close then, but they were good enough friends that Johnny felt screwed over and Evan felt guilty about it.[/QUOTE] I guess you're right about that. There have been upsets in the JEK reign... but still. I think the reason I like them so much is the fact that it's one alliance I've seen that's actually a friendship (sadly, Johnny's always seemed like a sort of third wheel).

I noticed something weird in the scene with the sudoku-like puzzle. I paused the screen to see how the puzzle works (and to see if I could solve it quickly), and when they finally showed Kenny and Laurel having gotten the puzzle right, there were a couple of fours in the third column, and a couple of threes in the first column. When Sarah and Vinny's puzzle was shown as completed, the four and three in the bottom row were in different positions than Kenny and Laurel's were, and there were no duplicate numbers in any rows and column or chain of boxes (it looked like the answer I got). I guess perhaps the episode was edited wrong during the point where they showed Kenny and Laurel's puzzle being correct. Or maybe the person who verified whether the team got the puzzle right made a mistake. If so, I think it would have been an easy fix and not something that would have slowed K and L down, anyway.

[QUOTE=RW561015;168647]I noticed something weird in the scene with the sudoku-like puzzle. I paused the screen to see how the puzzle works (and to see if I could solve it quickly), and when they finally showed Kenny and Laurel having gotten the puzzle right, there were a couple of fours in the third column, and a couple of threes in the first column. When Sarah and Vinny's puzzle was shown as completed, the four and three in the bottom row were in different positions than Kenny and Laurel's were, and there were no duplicate numbers in any rows and column or chain of boxes (it looked like the answer I got). I guess perhaps the episode was edited wrong during the point where they showed Kenny and Laurel's puzzle being correct.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there were probably a few different solutions.

[QUOTE=RW561015;168647]I noticed something weird in the scene with the sudoku-like puzzle. I paused the screen to see how the puzzle works (and to see if I could solve it quickly), and when they finally showed Kenny and Laurel having gotten the puzzle right, there were a couple of fours in the third column, and a couple of threes in the first column. When Sarah and Vinny's puzzle was shown as completed, the four and three in the bottom row were in different positions than Kenny and Laurel's were, and there were no duplicate numbers in any rows and column or chain of boxes (it looked like the answer I got). I guess perhaps the episode was edited wrong during the point where they showed Kenny and Laurel's puzzle being correct. Or maybe the person who verified whether the team got the puzzle right made a mistake. If so, I think it would have been an easy fix and not something that would have slowed K and L down, anyway.[/QUOTE] It was probably bad editing, like you said.

[QUOTE=molds13;168653]I'm sure there were probably a few different solutions.[/QUOTE] I thought about that, but if you could not duplicate any numbers in any rows or columns, their solution was incorrect because of two columns. They just had the four and three switched around in the bottom row, and it threw the columns off.

[QUOTE=Bacchus;168657]I'm not fully appraised on this topic, but I know with Survivor and The Amazing Race, they often cut in shots from their "super teams" that play the puzzles before hand, because they offer better angles. Not saying that was the case here, but just something to think about.[/QUOTE] Before hand as in before the Exile?

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168664]Before hand as in before the Exile?[/QUOTE] Yes. They have "dream teams" do the challenges before to make sure they aren't too difficult or too easy.

[QUOTE=SteveSparxx;168613]I think the whole dealing with individual competition is one of the reasons why that Kenny didn't take part in the Duel 2 Challenge.[/QUOTE] It has been stated many times that none of the winners of the island were invited for the Duel 2.

Oh, so teams that aren't the actually teams on the challenge. For a second I thought you meant the competitors themselves had access to the puzzles.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168667]Oh, so teams that aren't the actually teams on the challenge. For a second I thought you meant the competitors themselves had access to the puzzles.[/QUOTE] Oh no no no. That's why (on Survivor and Amazing Race) when you see the challenge being explained and people getting their clues, you never see any faces.

[QUOTE=nellygrl;168641]Politically, Kenny knows how to play the game. Wes... I don't think he does.[/QUOTE] You're joking, right? Did you watch last night's episode? Take the blinders off!

[QUOTE=AJHill;168679]You're joking, right? Did you watch last night's episode? Take the blinders off![/QUOTE] He made a calculated decision. It's not like he thought Wes was going to be his new bestie. But he thought Wes would at least stick to his word for longer than a week. So yeah, he made a decision that didn't work out in the end, but all challengers have done the same. And I'm not wearing any blinders. Compared to Wes, Kenny is a genius in these games.

[QUOTE=nellygrl;168688]He made a calculated decision. It's not like he thought Wes was going to be his new bestie. But he thought Wes would at least stick to his word for longer than a week. So yeah, he made a decision that didn't work out in the end, but all challengers have done the same. And I'm not wearing any blinders. [B]Compared to Wes, Kenny is a genius in these games.[/B][/QUOTE] No, he isn't. Kenny's an idiot for trusting Wes. Did he not remember that he completely screwed Wes over in The Ruins? Wes manipulated Kenny into throwing in Darrell, and then immediately set his sights on Kenny's alliance. Was anyone actually suprised by any of this? Kenny had a chance to throw in Wes right from the get go and passed it up. Kenny is not the political genius that people make him out to be. I believe I said this on the Kenny thread earlier, but I find it hilarious that everyone lauds his "great social game", but all of a sudden, without his flunkies, he is completely powerless. Obviously Kenny is not a genius compared to Wes in these games, or else he never would have been thrown into Exile so early. Wes has masterminded BOTH matchups for exile thus far, and to sit here and say that Kenny plays a better politcal game than him is absurd, since Wes is completely owning him in the politcal game thus far. Kenny's political game only goes as far as his friends.

[QUOTE=Bacchus;168657]I'm not fully appraised on this topic, but I know with Survivor and The Amazing Race, they often cut in shots from their "super teams" that play the puzzles before hand, because they offer better angles. Not saying that was the case here, but just something to think about.[/QUOTE] Watching that scene again, it now looks to me like Sarah's final puzzle appeared wrong as well - it last looked like she moved one of the threes above another one. I think for both teams, it's either odd editing or they allowed them to pass as long as the chain of boxes in the puzzle were correct.

[QUOTE=Darock1713;168532]It chess, it isn't checkers. Had Kenny stayed aligned with Darrell, then the opportunity may have passed to get rid of him, perhaps at the benefit of getting rid of Wes with the extra votes, had he beat Wes in an exile which is also 50/50. [/QUOTE] That move looked really strategic last week, this week not so much, but it's too early to say either way.. He got rid of a great competitor, which is nice for the end game when you may have to face him...if he makes it to the end I'll say that somehow it ended up as a great move.

[QUOTE=AJHill;168690]No, he isn't. Kenny's an idiot for trusting Wes. Did he not remember that he completely screwed Wes over in The Ruins? Wes manipulated Kenny into throwing in Darrell, and then immediately set his sights on Kenny's alliance. Was anyone actually suprised by any of this? Kenny had a chance to throw in Wes right from the get go and passed it up. Kenny is not the political genius that people make him out to be. I believe I said this on the Kenny thread earlier, but I find it hilarious that everyone lauds his "great social game", but all of a sudden, without his flunkies, he is completely powerless. Obviously Kenny is not a genius compared to Wes in these games, or else he never would have been thrown into Exile so early. Wes has masterminded BOTH matchups for exile thus far, and to sit here and say that Kenny plays a better politcal game than him is absurd, since Wes is completely owning him in the politcal game thus far. Kenny's political game only goes as far as his friends.[/QUOTE] Wes did not have to do much to [I]manipulate[/I] Kenny into sending in Darrell. In the end, that was a good move strategically. Yes, it was stupid of Kenny to let his guard down... but, in the end, it was a STUPID decision on Wes's part to redraw the line in the sand between him and Kenny so early on. Wes could have potentially had Kenny in his alliance, voting his way for weeks before he had to turn on him... and if he waited, he wouldn't have had to deal with such large repercussions. This gives Kenny several weeks to bring his guard back up and sway the votes which I have no doubt he will. Yes, Kenny made a bad decision in trusting Wes, I agree with you there. But, in the end, Kenny plays the game to win it while Wes plays the game to eliminate Kenny. And that's what makes Kenny so much better than Wes. Wes's focus is going to get him sent home. Plus... the Ruins? They weren't friends in the Ruins... anything Kenny did to Wes was fair game.

I wonder if Kenny/Laurel will be the Wes/Casey of this season going into a lot Exiles. Which would be bring all the "storylines" since Fm1 come full circle to be honest.

[QUOTE=nellygrl;168703]Wes did not have to do much to [I]manipulate[/I] Kenny into sending in Darrell. In the end, that was a good move strategically. Yes, it was stupid of Kenny to let his guard down... but, in the end, it was a STUPID decision on Wes's part to redraw the line in the sand between him and Kenny so early on. Wes could have potentially had Kenny in his alliance, voting his way for weeks before he had to turn on him... and if he waited, he wouldn't have had to deal with such large repercussions. This gives Kenny several weeks to bring his guard back up and sway the votes which I have no doubt he will. Yes, Kenny made a bad decision in trusting Wes, I agree with you there. But, in the end, Kenny plays the game to win it while Wes plays the game to eliminate Kenny. And that's what makes Kenny so much better than Wes. Wes's focus is going to get him sent home. Plus... the Ruins? They weren't friends in the Ruins... anything Kenny did to Wes was fair game.[/QUOTE] I don't think you're going to convince anyone that it was STUPID of Wes to try to get rid of Kenny. Kenny had a strong teammate, and it was likely that they would win a lot of missions. Trying to get rid of him when he had the chance wasn't stupid at all. If anything, he would have been kicking himself for NOT taking that chance if Kenny won the next one and threw Wes in right away, which I wouldn't be surprised for him today. As for Wes' aim...it's hard to say. Previews have made it sound like that, but so far, it seems like his focus is getting to the final with a)his alliance and b)no other strong teams. And I really don't see how the Alliance's actions against Wes are any better or more "fair" than Wes' actions here. Yes, Wes threw one mission, but then he played fair and still got sent in every time. It's not like they're friends right now, either. I'm not saying that this move will guarantee Wes' alliance victory, or beat Kenny for sure. All I'm saying is that if you look at the potential pay-off vs. the risk, along with how strong Kenny's team is (and the likelihood that they will probably win a lot of missions), it made sense to make this move now. Plus, it makes for MUCH better television! I'm SO BORED of one-sided alliances. BTW, I love how it's all Wes vs. Kenny, when really it was Evelyn's idea to put in Kenny against Sarah.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168712]BTW, I love how it's all Wes vs. Kenny, when really it was Evelyn's idea to put in Kenny against Sarah.[/QUOTE]This.

Yeah Ev is playing a very smart game. She has a lot of power, but makes it look like Wes is the one making all the decisions.

I friken love the intro, btw. :D

[QUOTE=Darock1713;168475]Landon made the absolute perfect play by aligning himself with Wes over Kenny for 2 reasons. (1.) Wes has more numbers than Kenny and with Sarah gone, he has even more of a stronghold. If Wes or Landon wins challenges, which is highly probable, then Kenny will see Exile ALOT. (2.) Landon is easily the strongest player there, and he is under the radar due to the Kenny vs Wes feud. My recipe for a skate to the Finals unless Kenny wins an occassional challenge or 2 - even with that, I don't think anyone there could take Landon in an exile. Keep in mind that this is new territory for Kenny, no Evan, no johnny, and the one person that was with him (Darrell), he stabbed in the back. 2 more votes lost. However, he could have least cut the lion at the head early if he could have drawn Wes in. As much as I have loathed Kenny in seasons past for his inability to prove himself as a strong competitor, get by solely on alliances, his move to get rid of Darrell was very strategic, and it was one I would have made also since he won FM1. However, he could have beat Wes to the punch and aligned himself with Lando since they have seemed to be on top in the challenges thus far. [U][B]Surprisingly, Kenny didn't show panic when he knew he was going in, he actually welcomed it and won[/B][/U]. As for Wes, after FM1, he made the perfect play, especially given the history of past challenges. Got rid of Darrell and then discarded ol Kenny like a dishrag. All that said, this rivalry I hope is the sign to come of future challenges. I think this is the one element that has been missing since Duel 1 when you had the young lions working together against big bad CT.[/QUOTE] He didn't? Then I must've seen a different edit, because I saw Kenny freak out and call out Wes for "betraying" him. He even took it out on Mandi.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168712]I don't think you're going to convince anyone that it was STUPID of Wes to try to get rid of Kenny. Kenny had a strong teammate, and it was likely that they would win a lot of missions. Trying to get rid of him when he had the chance wasn't stupid at all. If anything, he would have been kicking himself for NOT taking that chance if Kenny won the next one and threw Wes in right away, which I wouldn't be surprised for him today. As for Wes' aim...it's hard to say. Previews have made it sound like that, but so far, it seems like his focus is getting to the final with a)his alliance and b)no other strong teams. And I really don't see how the Alliance's actions against Wes are any better or more "fair" than Wes' actions here. Yes, Wes threw one mission, but then he played fair and still got sent in every time. It's not like they're friends right now, either. I'm not saying that this move will guarantee Wes' alliance victory, or beat Kenny for sure. All I'm saying is that if you look at the potential pay-off vs. the risk, along with how strong Kenny's team is (and the likelihood that they will probably win a lot of missions), it made sense to make this move now. Plus, it makes for MUCH better television! I'm SO BORED of one-sided alliances. BTW, I love how it's all Wes vs. Kenny, when really it was Evelyn's idea to put in Kenny against Sarah.[/QUOTE] Well, it wasn't stupid to send Kenny in. You're right. But they sent him in against Sarah and Vinny, a team they were almost certain to beat and did. That's what made it stupid. I mean, if they sent him in against Landon, it would have been the smartest move ever. But against Sarah and Vinny? It was stupid for all the reasons above. But I do agree that this is much better television. I'm glad to be seeing Kenny proving himself on his own so that when EKJ are reunited, we know all three carry their weight.

[QUOTE=nellygrl;168724]But I do agree that this is much better television. I'm glad to be seeing Kenny proving himself on his own so that when EKJ are reunited, we know all three carry their weight.[/QUOTE] It is cool to see Kenny do his own thing. But your last statement is off just a bit, I don't think Johnny has carried his weight really. He relied on his alliances and they even went against him a bit at the end of the Ruins. Anyways, I'm starting to like Kenny a bit more because he seems to be handling things okay and he isn't dissing too many people. Sure he says really dumb things but it isn't as bad as it has been. I still want to know what Kenny exactly thinks of Derrick though. If you heard his interview in his thread he in a way dissed Derrick and on the dailies he said "If Johnny or Evan... or EVEN Derrick was here... blah blah blah". Hopefully we can figure that out.

[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168723]He didn't? Then I must've seen a different edit, because I saw Kenny freak out and call out Wes for "betraying" him. He even took it out on Mandi.[/QUOTE] He didn't exactly freak. He went up to Wes calmly and confronted him. And when did he take it out on Mandi?