[QUOTE=Browncow;285192]It was at the start of filming and MTV took no responsibility because it happened in a club and then she was re-cast, right?[/QUOTE]
No, it's in the wikepdia entry.
[QUOTE=Browncow;285192]It was at the start of filming and MTV took no responsibility because it happened in a club and then she was re-cast, right?[/QUOTE]
Lol no. This happened well into filming, Charlie was there I think, which is why he got so little camera time.
[QUOTE=ummokayyeah;285175]I second the person who asked, when has Tonya lied? I never watched her season, but I have watched her on the challenges and while people like to call her a liar, I haven't actually seen her lie. Yes, she an emotionally unstable mess, but I don't see how that makes her claim suspect. In fact, emotionally unstable, vulnerable women are more likely to be sexually assaulted. I find it very hard to believe that Tonya is lying about this. Based on what I've seen on the challenges of JEK's behavior, I find it much more likely that they did this, than Tonya is lying. Of course if I were a juror in court I would presume innocence until proven guilty, but I'm not a juror in court. Instead I am just a person who who is surveying the facts and using my common sense to come to the most likely conclusion based on what I see.[/QUOTE]
I am trying to remember and I know you said you didn't watch, but I was wondering was there something in her RW season when she went back to Walawala (sp?) to see her BF and the cast found out about her lies and was mad when she got back? I really am just asking, because now it's making me confused.
I feel like most of the posts online are already taking sides about this topic, as if we know these people personally through our TV, and it is hard to claim innocent until proven guilty for whatever side people take. Maybe most jurors can't either sometimes.
[QUOTE=TheCollegeD;285196]Lol no. This happened well into filming, Charlie was there I think, which is why he got so little camera time.[/QUOTE]
Whoops, sorry! Ha!
Wikipedia references info on the story and how MTV handled it. I won't post here cuz off topic.
[QUOTE=britt;285191]I'm a little confused at this point. Why is it not okay to judge Tonya as she was portrayed on the challenges but totally permissible to galvanize Evan and Kenny's characters because of the way they were edited?[/QUOTE]
Because being portrayed as a sloppy drunk or a **** on tv does not show any potential of being a liar or someone who can concoct such a story like this up. People are assuming she's making this up because she was so unstable on that challenge. Well not many of us here know her stability when she decided to press charges.
Whereas Kenny and Evan are being accused of raping someone on a challenge where there are videos of them verbally abusing women(one of them being the accuser) and continuously trying to take off women bathing suits after already hearing the words "stop" and "no". So it's a little easier, for me at least, to believe they would do something like this than it is to believe that Tonya is just randomly lying about something that has happened a year before she decided to press charges.
Just heard about the lawsuit. Crazy. Yet it seems possible and likely that this event happened. Even if it didn't happen exactly like Tonya said or to Tonya, I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened to some other girl on a previous challenge. The challenges just seem to have that sort of environment where bad behavior (that would constitute as a crime off the show) is encouraged and rewarded on the show. I've always been frustrated by the girls that go on these shows in the sense that a lot of them seem to not only accept the sexual harrassment and degrading treatment but also support and befriend the guys who do it to them.
If anything comes from this lawsuit, hopefully it's a serious shift in the behavior of the cast. Also, it seems like the various production teams of MTV shows rarely step in to stop things. Like when Amber hit Gary on Teen Mom, production didn't intervene. When Ronnie pushes Sam on Jersey Shore, production does nothing. This toothbrush incident is a case where someone should've stepped in whenever they were made aware of the incident. So hopefully this suit brings about a change in behavior from production as well.
A lot of people have been talking on here about Johnny and how you can easily see Johnny doing this because of all his past antics. And yet Johnny isn't named in this claim. So can't we then at least admit that, based on what we saw via MTV selected footage, dailies, and editing, we also can imagine others doing this who weren't accused of doing this? Maybe it means we can see a lot of these cast members doing bad things because a lot of them are bullies (and probably also are liars).
We know they lie to each other as game play/strategy. We know they bully and harass to mentally break players.
I am sure we all have had neighbors we have looked at or observed and thought we could see that neighbor being a criminal or doing something seedy. Doesn't mean they all did.
I basically said earlier in the thread that it's easy to judge based off of edits. Tonya is shown to be unstable, so that makes her a liar. Kenny and Evan are shown to be jerks, so that makes them rapists.
For me, though, it's easy to believe the accusations Tonya has brought up, and it has nothing at all to do with how any party involved is portrayed on TV or what any of their friends/not friends have to say about the matter. Statistically, false and unfounded (which in the end this may prove to be, which doesn't mean Kenny and Evan are innocent) accusations are low.
She could have named any other cast member, and my thoughts on the matter wouldn't change.
I do find it amusing that reality stars (and their fans) portray everything good presented about them is true and run to the "You weren't there. It's the edit" excuse when something bad about them comes up.
[QUOTE=LaneV95;285230]Has anyone heard what Wes or Nehemiah said about this, since they were their Rivals partners?[/QUOTE]
Well Nehemiah wasn't there. I really wanna know what Wes thinks of this though, wonder if they used his tooth brush...not saying they did it but apparently something did happen to a toothbrush because production replaced it. But he might not know anything either because he didn't even sleep in the same room as them or hang out with them during the Ruins. But after reading the 2nd article on this makes me think she won't get anywhere with this because she was passed out and some one else told her, so technically she didn't even witness it herself, they can easily say that the bruising on her was self inflicted or something. The only way I see them being guilty is if this person that told her gets questioned in court or if they have actual footage of it, like if Casey Anthony was able to get out of killing her kid then I can easily see Kenny and Evan being proven not guilty because of lack of evidence.
[QUOTE=LaneV95;285230]Has anyone heard what Wes or Nehemiah said about this, since they were their Rivals partners?[/QUOTE]
Up to you to decide if this is relevant or not, maybe not, but Wes wrote two tweets on the 28th, people replied asking if they were in reference to Tonya and I don't know if he acknowledged anything elsewhere, but all those people's tweets are now not showing.
They were:
1. If it has tits or wheels...it will give you problems
2. :(: #Bipolar
[QUOTE=mcteng2010;285296]I do not get why she is doing this now when this incident probably happened during The Ruins which was back in 2009.[/QUOTE]
Read every post. It has been established that she initially filed the suit in May 2010.
I just read the document, on page 3, under JURISDICTION, it says all cast members were governed by California law while filming this show...I'm now wondering why she isn't pressing criminal charges, because she could, since the rape would technically be considered US (California) jurisdiction.
[QUOTE=brunett;285313]i just read the document, on page 3, under JURISDICTION, it says all cast members were governed by California law while filming this show...I'm now wondering why she isn't pressing criminal charges, because she could, since the rape would technically be considered US (California) jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]
I wondered this as well, and the only thing I could think of was that Tonya's primary focus for the lawsuit is not the actual sexual assault but rather her belief that the conditions and the treatment by BMP and MTV are the reason that the sexual assault occurred.
[QUOTE=Browncow;285236]Up to you to decide if this is relevant or not, maybe not, but Wes wrote two tweets on the 28th, people replied asking if they were in reference to Tonya and I don't know if he acknowledged anything elsewhere, but all those people's tweets are now not showing.
They were:
1. If it has tits or wheels...it will give you problems
2. :(: #Bipolar[/QUOTE]
He's been having issues with Mandi, apparently, from the Facebook screencap in the Challenge 2011 speculation thread.
Oh, and why is John's - who was not named in the suit - whole name on here as a tag, but not Evan's, as he was named in the suit (Kenny's already appears)?
[QUOTE=brunett;285313]I just read the document, on page 3, under JURISDICTION, it says [B]all cast members were governed by California law[/B] while filming this show...I'm now wondering why she isn't pressing criminal charges, because she could, since the rape would technically be considered US (California) jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing that is just part of their contract for the civil suit. I don't think you can contract criminal jurisdictions. It isn't like you could say, "Well you can't put me on death row for killing somebody in a death penalty state because I have a piece of paper that says jurisdiction will be in a non-death penalty state."
[I][B][B]This is what Cara Maria said on her formspring:
[/B][/B][/I]
This is only assuming the allegations are true (which I will not say I believe it or disbelieve it.... I just want people to respect the victim and not make jokes about it)
I was not there. I do not know first hand what happened. My guess is as good as yours.
that being said.....
Just imagine this scenerio- perhaps there were a few witnesses who told her about it after it happened (the boys were being jokesters... people are always around to watch the pranks and the boys like an audience)... and now the other castmembers do not want to step forward as witnesses because they feel they would risk not being able to be on another show. No one wants to go against BMP. Those guys cut our paychecks.
also- the JEK guys are the popular funny guys who everyone wants to be on good terms with... who would risk being on everyone's bad side and lose the ability to be on another show by telling the truth? ..... people conveniently "forget" what happened when called.
It's not right. But money makes the world go round. and no one wants the light on them. It's group behavior. you want to fit in, therefore you do not speak up.
I don't agree. But this is what happens. Social Psych 101. If ONE person came forward and said they saw something... the others would follow suite... it just takes one person.
[I]
I like her thinking about this situation.[/I]
I just have trouble believing that Sara, a victim of sexual abuse, Chet a supposedly deeply religious person, or Cohutta who seems to have some very deep-seeded values would not come forward if this did happen or not speak up if it didn't happen. I know Chet went home early, but he is bound to have heard things if his elimination was before the alleged incident.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;285350]I just have trouble believing that Sara, a victim of sexual abuse, Chet a supposedly deeply religious person, or Cohutta who seems to have some very deep-seeded values would not come forward if this did happen or not speak up if it didn't happen. I know Chet went home early, but he is bound to have heard things if his elimination was before the alleged incident.[/QUOTE]
Who's to say they knew about it? Maybe it was just the champion team that knew, not the Rookie or whatever side.
We also don't know that one of them weren't the cast members that allegedly tipped her off, right? We don't know who did. I expect whoever did would be in court when the hearing takes place.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;285350]I just have trouble believing that Sara, a victim of sexual abuse, Chet a [B]supposedly[/B] deeply religious person, or Cohutta who seems to have some very deep-seeded values would not come forward if this did happen or not speak up if it didn't happen. I know Chet went home early, but he is bound to have heard things if his elimination was before the alleged incident.[/QUOTE]
(If the incident happened and) if I were Chet and got eliminated before it did, why would I testify? All he "knows" would be based on hearsay.
[QUOTE=CherryPie;285381](If the incident happened and) if I were Chet and got eliminated before it did, why would I testify? All he "knows" would be based on hearsay.[/QUOTE]
Hearsay and testifying are for court, speaking up is not. If somebody told me my neighbor was molesting their child, I wouldn't let "hearsay" keep me from alerting the authorities. If I knew something happened or had a good faith belief something happened, I would not let Tonya be twisting in the wind. At the very least I would say, "I am not giving details, but this claim is not 'baseless'".
Yeah we dont know who knew about the incident or who wittnessed it. I'm assuming Veronica knew about it because I think her comments toward her were about that and thats something that set Tonya off to hit her.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;285384]Hearsay and testifying are for court, speaking up is not. If somebody told me my neighbor was molesting their child, I wouldn't let "hearsay" keep me from alerting the authorities. If I knew something happened or had a good faith belief something happened, I would not let Tonya be twisting in the wind. At the very least I would say, "I am not giving details, but this claim is not 'baseless'".[/QUOTE]
Well, when you said "come forward if this did happen", did you mean tell Tonya at the time it happened (if it did), or agree to testify and/or publicly affirm that the claim is not baseless? Maybe I misunderstood, but I assumed you meant the latter, and I think if Chet doesn't really know, it would be in his best interest to stay out of it. Let the ones who were there, or at least who were in the house, come forward.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;285350]I just have trouble believing that Sara, a victim of sexual abuse, Chet a supposedly deeply religious person, or Cohutta who seems to have some very deep-seeded values would not come forward if this did happen or not speak up if it didn't happen..[/QUOTE]
Very true, I would imagine, about Cohutta, and Chet was the guy who was REALLY there for her before he went home. I'd be disappointed in Sarah if she knew about this and did nothing, but we don't know so I won't accuse her.
Ever since this has gone down, I keep flashing back to the scene when Tonya hit V and got kicked off. Maybe the only time I've ever liked Wes ... remember how he very calmly and coolly kinda chastised those guys for their treatment of Tonya leading up to the incident with Veronica? Evan said something like," Oh, come on. Everyone jokes around with Tonya the way we do" or something like that (I haven't seen it in years ... I'm doing this from memory), and Wes very calmly said, "I haven't. Neither has Brad. And neither has Cohutta." What's transpired in the last few days makes that scene kinda chilling to me. Evan and those guys were CLEARLY covering their ***** by comforting Tonya, and it really looks like Wes is calling them out on their hypocrisy. And it was probably Wes' toothbrush, as others have already pointed out here.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;285204][B]I basically said earlier in the thread that it's easy to judge based off of edits. Tonya is shown to be unstable, so that makes her a liar. Kenny and Evan are shown to be jerks, so that makes them rapists[/B].
For me, though, it's easy to believe the accusations Tonya has brought up, and it has nothing at all to do with how any party involved is portrayed on TV or what any of their friends/not friends have to say about the matter. Statistically, false and unfounded (which in the end this may prove to be, which doesn't mean Kenny and Evan are innocent) accusations are low.
She could have named any other cast member, and my thoughts on the matter wouldn't change.[/QUOTE]
I like this post.
[QUOTE=Blue123;285231]Well Nehemiah wasn't there. I really wanna know what Wes thinks of this though, wonder if they used his tooth brush...not saying they did it but apparently something did happen to a toothbrush because production replaced it. But he might not know anything either because he didn't even sleep in the same room as them or hang out with them during the Ruins. But after reading the 2nd article on this makes me think she won't get anywhere with this because she was passed out and some one else told her, so technically she didn't even witness it herself, they can easily say that the bruising on her was self inflicted or something. The only way I see them being guilty is if this person that told her gets questioned in court or if they have actual footage of it, like if Casey Anthony was able to get out of killing her kid then I can easily see Kenny and Evan being proven not guilty because of lack of evidence.[/QUOTE]
I've been thinking about this and it seems pretty easy to prove whether it happened or not...BMP films EVERYTHING 24/7. There are production people everywhere, and where there aren't production people there are cameras set up (in bedrooms, etc).
Seems that if Tonya heard this happened to her, the very first thing she would do is go to BMP and demand to see all the footage of the bedroom that day (like continuous footage from the hidden camera set up in there). I think she probably hasn't actually seen it because surely if video of the assault was in her hands BMP would NOT want to even think about going to court over this. At the same time, if Tonya had continuous footage of the "scene of the crime" spanning that entire day and nothing happened, she probably wouldn't want to go public with this either.
So I think the most likely scenario is that BMP has either simply insisted that the footage doesn't exist and hasn't shown Tonya anything, or they've given her footage that's incomplete (i.e. chunks of time missing or something). Probably the first scenario is more likely...they're probably telling her there is no footage of this happening...maybe there never was, maybe it's been destroyed or conveniently "lost", or maybe BMP has it and just won't give it up. Surely the court can compel them to submit it as evidence though.
I always think it's weird when people debate about what did or didn't happen when they're on reality shows (i.e. someone confronting a cast member about something they said, and then that cast member denying they said it, etc)....this **** is on tape, people! Go back and look at it!
[QUOTE=Esquire;285319]I wondered this as well, and the only thing I could think of was that Tonya's primary focus for the lawsuit is not the actual sexual assault but rather her belief that the conditions and the treatment by BMP and MTV are the reason that the sexual assault occurred.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's not really possible to press criminal charges despite what the contract says. Or maybe it's because of the differing burdens of proof. Remember in a criminal case, the accused parties have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But in a civil case, all you need is preponderance of the evidence, which is much less stringent. That's why people (like OJ Simpson for example) can be acquitted in a criminal case but then be found guilty in a civil case about the same matter.
Pages