[QUOTE=britt;285039]This is what I've been trying to say. Thank you. I've also noticed the teasing goes both ways. I don't think its exclusively sexism. I think its more the strong praying on the weak in combination with boredom and alcohol. You see Laurel demeaning Eric viciously yet no one's saying she shouldn't be asked back because she's sexually assaulting him. You see the jokes between men, between women and between both genders. I feel like its just big personalities rubbing up against each other. Besides the accusations of rape, the girls dug into Tonya as much as the guys did. Maybe even worse. And many women have stood up for themselves. You mentioned Susie. There's also Coral. Laurel, Katie, Tina, Jenn, etc. When you look at the big picture, not just what people are choosing to see to defend a point, its just a big mess of young, drunk, bored and stupid people with nothing better to do but pick on each other. With this being said, of course producers purposely load the house with alcohol and rid it of any other form of entertainment. They want their cast members to be interesting to watch. However they all have equal access to the alcohol and they all have their free will to not drink, to stand up for themselves or to simply not be a belligerent ***. Some cast mates have said their primary reason for going on challenges is specifically for the partying. Casey keeps coming back and its not because she enjoys an athletic challenge. If the environment was as sexually abusive as people are trying to twist it to be, it doesn't seem plausible these girls would keep coming back. Which is why I personally believe Tonya's accusations to be untrue.[/QUOTE]
You have very valid points. However, there are women whom haven't come back; such as, Coral, Kimberly, Johanna, Cara Z. Maybe the boys weren't sexually assaulting Cara Maria or Sarah, and maybe even Tonya. However, if you think about it, why hasn't Kim come back? She did say The Ruins was the reason why she doesn't want to come back, and I don't see her talking to Kenny or Evan. Back onto the topic of Tonya, (I know you didn't say this nor imply any of it) but just because Tonya is/was an unstable person doesn't mean it can't happen to her. Seriously, how many people that are in the nut houses haven't been taken advantage of? Yet nobody believes them because they are crazy (I'm just saying). Anyway, I don't know whether or not to believe. To me, Kenny seems like he wouldn't do it unless someone influences him to, and to me Evan seems like the kind of guy who would do it if he were plastered enough. I don't know whether to believe Tonya, but she doesn't seem the type to cry wolf, I don't personally know her, but it is just my perspective.
[QUOTE=Ch@llengeFan;285030]I'm just going to say I find it funny that a week ago nobody was talking about Evan and Kenny's behavior on challenges, they were 2 of the fan favorites and now after this lawsuit is released everyone is jumping all over them.
edit: WOW, people are bringing TJ into this, hahahah[/QUOTE]
Umm I've always talked about their behavior on certain challenges. They were never my favorite that's for sure.
[QUOTE=Svuroo;284905]It sounds like Tonya's mad at the world. She notes that crazier actions get more camera time and thus more opportunities off the show.... true of any reality show and something she's bought into for years. Mostly it sounds like she's complaining in legalese that Kenny and Evan are more successful than her...A lot of it echoes what the other castmembers have been saying about BM giving them less freedom and worse living conditions.
The complaint that's all over the news is barely mentioned and seems a lot tamer than people are saying. Still say it sucks for Kenny and Evan who are now rapists based on a has-been being mad at the world. Anyone else want to read and share thoughts?[/QUOTE]
I think you're missing the point here. We have no footage of the toothbrush incident but we did see: Susie literally pleading with Kenny and Evan in a dallie that she didn't want to be naked yet they still untied her bikini top. Johnny opening the door of the bathroom to douse powder on a naked Kim while she tried to cover up with a towel on the *** they should have shown. After Kelly Anne did her birthday suit streak for the ladies, the girls covered her up when the guys came over to see it but they pulled the girls off her.
When the girls complained to producers they were told to "just deal with it." Why weren't they reprimanded for these just like Tonya was kicked off for hitting Veronica? [B]The crux of Tonya's complaint is not only were Kenny and Evan allowed to stay but they were rewarded for denigrating woman.
[/B]
And yes, we heard about the conditions on challenges but I think it's high time someone steps outside the fear of never being invited back by BMP and being ostracized by the cool kids to make a bigger stink about it. Tonya is not a jealous has-been because she sued BMP for the degrading work environment they foster. By coming forward, she has possibly put an end to her reality career and portraying herself as the drunk who would get so passed out that she couldn't even feel the toothbrush isn't exactly winning her popularity points.
Why do I even have to defend Tonya??? Oh, I forgot we live in a world where it's your fault if you get rape at a party because you're drunk and wearing a ****** dress and it's your fault that you got beat up in the alley because you didn't fight back. There. Those are my thoughts. Now I'm mad at the world.
I could sit here all day and cite examples of the unsafe environment created on these shows. It's not just the sexism. In the early days of the show, there were different hosts. These hosts did not demean certain contestants they didn't like, the host acted more professional and stayed above the fray. Earlier seasons had more of the likable cast members who tried to win fairly and have a good time, without bullying other contestants. There were bullies, but the bad behavior was not so extreme. The physical challenges weren't so extreme and dangerous. It's not just the sexism, the producers have pushed all the worst elements of the show to the nth degree.
People are claiming BMP intervenes in situations and keeps the cast safe. I guess I'll have to cite another example. I think it was the Guantlet III, I could be wrong, all the seasons are starting to bleed together for me at this point. This example also speaks to the pervasive sexism, and the way the inmates (Johnny, Evan, Kenny, CT, and others) were running the asylum. Male contestants on one team started throwing female challenge days, so female contestants on their own team would be pitted against each other in the elimination round. They referred to this as "cutting the fat" and made comments about how their female team members were worthless. These people, CT, Evan and others, were cheating and undermining the rules of the game.
They kept Big easy on their team, while making a big deal about "trimming the fat" and kicking off the females. Now we come to the final challenge. Big-E has no way to complete the challenge. At the beach he is so delirious he can't put on his own shoes. He appears to be suffering from some type of exercised induced exhaustion. At this point his future health is more important than filming the finale of a reality tv show. [B]NO ONE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF THE SHOW INTERVENES.[/B] On the next part of the challenge he is chained to his teammates. He's being dragged in chains by his teammates, and he is clearly delirious and has no idea where he is. His body is shutting down. Cameras continue to film. No on intervenes. Finally Brad implores his team to stop. No one from production intervenes, until Eric is lying on the ground incapacitated with his life hanging in the balance. Finishing the finale of their television show was more important to BMP than Eric's safety. Guess what MTV called the reunion show that season? "Trimming the fat" Utterly tasteless. They treated the whole thing as a joke.
Now, as to the fact that woman on the show like Evan and Kenny and continue to appear on multiple seasons, and talk to them on twitter. Other former cast members have said that they would never appear again because they don't like the environment on the show. If you look at statistics of rape and the other crimes, victims frequently know the perpetrator. Victims are often friends of the perpetrator. Perpetrators are often in positions of power in their community. It still doesn't make inappropriate touching without consent ok. Just look at the abuse cases involving the Catholic church, perpetrators are often powerful, have many friends, and the victims blame themselves and are afraid to come forward.
[QUOTE=new-girl;285059]You have very valid points. However, there are women whom haven't come back; such as, Coral, Kimberly, Johanna, Cara Z. Maybe the boys weren't sexually assaulting Cara Maria or Sarah, and maybe even Tonya. However, if you think about it, why hasn't Kim come back? She did say The Ruins was the reason why she doesn't want to come back, and I don't see her talking to Kenny or Evan. Back onto the topic of Tonya, (I know you didn't say this nor imply any of it) but just because Tonya is/was an unstable person doesn't mean it can't happen to her. Seriously, how many people that are in the nut houses haven't been taken advantage of? Yet nobody believes them because they are crazy (I'm just saying). Anyway, I don't know whether or not to believe. To me, Kenny seems like he wouldn't do it unless someone influences him to, and to me Evan seems like the kind of guy who would do it if he were plastered enough. I don't know whether to believe Tonya, but she doesn't seem the type to cry wolf, I don't personally know her, but it is just my perspective.[/QUOTE]
I think Tonya could be easily taken advantage of. And I agree, she doesn't seem the type to just cry wolf. But I think its more plausible someone told her this happened to mess with her while they were drunk, not realizing what they were saying was so serious. She is/was unstable and therefore even more likely to be taken advantage of mentally. I could very much see someone like Veronica telling her a story like this. That or something happened along the lines of what someone said before, that they put in it her underwear or something and she was led to believe more than that happened. I feel like its a lot more likely a game of telephone took place that misconstrued what actually happened that night than production actually allowed and covered up a rape scenario.
[QUOTE=danw34;285081]
People are claiming BMP intervenes in situations and keeps the cast safe. I guess I'll have to cite another example. I think it was the Guantlet III, I could be wrong, all the seasons are starting to bleed together for me at this point. This example also speaks to the pervasive sexism, and the way the inmates (Johnny, Evan, Kenny, CT, and others) were running the asylum. Male contestants on one team started throwing female challenge days, so female contestants on their own team would be pitted against each other in the elimination round. They referred to this as "cutting the fat" and made comments about how their female team members were worthless. These people, CT, Evan and others, were cheating and undermining the rules of the game.
[/QUOTE]
This is my favorite argument about the "misogyny" that Kenny, Evan, Johnny, CT, Danny etc showed on that season and others. They didn't want the WOMEN gone. They wanted the ****** women gone. Last time I checked, these are athletic competitions and who wants Katie Doyle who can't run, swim, climb on their team when the show is ABOUT running, swimming, and climbing. They weren't trying to get rid of Paula. Or Evelyn, or Diem, or Robin, and said, had Coral not quit, that they would have kept CASEY. The reason they didn't get rid of Eric wasn't because he's a man. It's because they were worried he was going to beat them. Look at Cutthroat. Since Johnny didn't have to face Eric, he tried to get rid of him EVERY CHANCE HE COULD. If they had gone out and thrown every girl mission and gotten rid of every girl on the team, you could cry misogyny. When the threw a grand total of THREE and WANTED to keep more than half of the girls. I forgot that this was a competition show and not a "let everybody win" show. How is them playing the game THREATENING to women and keeping them UNSAFE. Come on.
This is all irrelevant to the discussion regardless. If Kenny and Evan did this, it's disgusting. If Tonya is making it up, it's disgusting. Period, the end.
I've watched Tonya from her beginning on these shows. Like Trishelle said, Tonya was always very troubled and a compulsive liar. She was always desperate for attention. So she's not exactly the most credible person.
But on the other hand, I've seen Evan and Kenny act very inappropriate on dailies from the challenge on the Ruins. They do act like they can get away with anything and take jokes way too far.
So in the end, no one is the most credible person in this situation. We weren't there and don't know what happened, so I'm not taking sides. Because I really don't know! I don't see how anyone can take sides unless they were there.
[QUOTE=JL81790;285087]This is my favorite argument about the "misogyny" that Kenny, Evan, Johnny, CT, Danny etc showed on that season and others. They didn't want the WOMEN gone. They wanted the ****** women gone. Last time I checked, these are athletic competitions and who wants Katie Doyle who can't run, swim, climb on their team when the show is ABOUT running, swimming, and climbing. They weren't trying to get rid of Paula. Or Evelyn, or Diem, or Robin, and said, had Coral not quit, that they would have kept CASEY. The reason they didn't get rid of Eric wasn't because he's a man. It's because they were worried he was going to beat them. Look at Cutthroat. Since Johnny didn't have to face Eric, he tried to get rid of him EVERY CHANCE HE COULD. If they had gone out and thrown every girl mission and gotten rid of every girl on the team, you could cry misogyny. When the threw a grand total of THREE and WANTED to keep more than half of the girls. I forgot that this was a competition show and not a "let everybody win" show. How is them playing the game THREATENING to women and keeping them UNSAFE. Come on.
This is all irrelevant to the discussion regardless. If Kenny and Evan did this, it's disgusting. If Tonya is making it up, it's disgusting. Period, the end.[/QUOTE]
Those guys spoke so nastily about the women in general on that challenge - that is what people mean when they speak about misogyny. [U]If they could have gotten rid of almost all of them, I believe they would have.[/U] The other women were the ones willing to cling on to them and those guys used that to get rid of the other women. They made those women feel that they were safe so they would cooperate. I think they wanted to get rid of Robin at some point, too, even though she was hanging with them. They did not have enough eliminations. Of course CT would have wanted to keep Diem, I assume. They were calling the women ugly and fat. They made comments about wanting to leave them buried in one challenge, or wanting to tie rocks to them and sink them under the sea, if I recall correctly. And they were speaking in general about the female competitors. The fact that they got rid of Beth and Coral before getting rid of Casey, easily the worst competitor, meant they were not playing to get rid of the worst competitors, but to just [I]first[/I] get rid of women who would stand up for themselves. Besides, they kept winning and were easily dominant over the Rookie team. Not necessary to throw challenges for that. On later challenges, they couldn't care less for Robin (Evan called her a waste of space in an interview). Evan was annoyed with Diem and seemed to relish in dropping her in one challenge on Duel 2. He was very nasty to Brittini during Duel 2's final. The whole Island situation with Johhny and Kenny was nasty. There are so many situations from the shows that would make people think they don't regard most of the women from the shows well at all. And they don't have to like them, but they don't seem to have basic respect for many of them.
[QUOTE=Camille;285088]I've watched Tonya from her beginning on these shows. Like Trishelle said, Tonya was always very troubled and a compulsive liar. She was always desperate for attention. So she's not exactly the most credible person.
But on the other hand, I've seen Evan and Kenny act very inappropriate on dailies from the challenge on the Ruins. They do act like they can get away with anything and take jokes way too far.
So in the end, no one is the most credible person in this situation. We weren't there and don't know what happened, so I'm not taking sides. Because I really don't know! I don't see how anyone can take sides unless they were there.[/QUOTE]
I see both potential sides of this, too. As much as I don't care for those two, I don't want them to have done something like this. But it would be awful for someone to lie about this, so I don't want Tonya to be someone who does that, either. However, I do take this allegation very seriously. I just wish whatever happened didn't happen period, but too late for that. All I can wish for is a fair, just outcome for all involved.
[QUOTE=danw34;285081]I could sit here all day and cite examples of the unsafe environment created on these shows. It's not just the sexism. In the early days of the show, there were different hosts. These hosts did not demean certain contestants they didn't like, the host acted more professional and stayed above the fray. Earlier seasons had more of the likable cast members who tried to win fairly and have a good time, without bullying other contestants. There were bullies, but the bad behavior was not so extreme. The physical challenges weren't so extreme and dangerous. It's not just the sexism, the producers have pushed all the worst elements of the show to the nth degree.
People are claiming BMP intervenes in situations and keeps the cast safe. I guess I'll have to cite another example. I think it was the Guantlet III, I could be wrong, all the seasons are starting to bleed together for me at this point. This example also speaks to the pervasive sexism, and the way the inmates (Johnny, Evan, Kenny, CT, and others) were running the asylum. Male contestants on one team started throwing female challenge days, so female contestants on their own team would be pitted against each other in the elimination round. They referred to this as "cutting the fat" and made comments about how their female team members were worthless. These people, CT, Evan and others, were cheating and undermining the rules of the game.
They kept Big easy on their team, while making a big deal about "trimming the fat" and kicking off the females. Now we come to the final challenge. Big-E has no way to complete the challenge. At the beach he is so delirious he can't put on his own shoes. He appears to be suffering from some type of exercised induced exhaustion. At this point his future health is more important than filming the finale of a reality tv show. [B]NO ONE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF THE SHOW INTERVENES.[/B] On the next part of the challenge he is chained to his teammates. He's being dragged in chains by his teammates, and he is clearly delirious and has no idea where he is. His body is shutting down. Cameras continue to film. No on intervenes. Finally Brad implores his team to stop. No one from production intervenes, until Eric is lying on the ground incapacitated with his life hanging in the balance. Finishing the finale of their television show was more important to BMP than Eric's safety. Guess what MTV called the reunion show that season? "Trimming the fat" Utterly tasteless. They treated the whole thing as a joke.
Now, as to the fact that woman on the show like Evan and Kenny and continue to appear on multiple seasons, and talk to them on twitter. Other former cast members have said that they would never appear again because they don't like the environment on the show. If you look at statistics of rape and the other crimes, victims frequently know the perpetrator. Victims are often friends of the perpetrator. Perpetrators are often in positions of power in their community. It still doesn't make inappropriate touching without consent ok. Just look at the abuse cases involving the Catholic church, perpetrators are often powerful, have many friends, and the victims blame themselves and are afraid to come forward.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they called it "Trimming the Fat" because that was the theme of the entire challenge, not because its a joke to them. And maybe that's just the dynamic of the friendships that come out of this, not evidence of some sort of Stockholm syndrome. Coral left because the men were throwing challenges. Not because she was being sexually assaulted. I can't say I'm up on all the reasons every single person who isn't doing challenges anymore stopped doing challenges and if someone would like to enlighten me, please do. But you're basically calling the producers proponents of serial rape. Men say terrible things to women and men. Women say terrible things to women and men. Just so happens, men don't tend to give much of a reaction when the women make fun of them so no one talks about it. The reason the men "relish" so much in picking on the women is because it is a competition and even though, as a woman, I'm all for girl power, the men simply perform better and they're angry they're not performing to their fullest potential because of women on their team. Mix in alcohol, you get this kind of behavior. You see it in physically strong women too. Evelyn and Laurel both say very similar things to both women and men when they're not performing well. Laurel even made a grown man cry. I'm still not completely sure though that it means contestants are capable of rape and I definitely don't think it means production's in some conspiracy to cover it up.
[QUOTE=Camille;285088]I've watched Tonya from her beginning on these shows. Like Trishelle said, Tonya was always very troubled and a [B]compulsive liar[/B]. She was always desperate for attention. So she's not exactly the most credible person.
But on the other hand, I've seen Evan and Kenny act very inappropriate on dailies from the challenge on the Ruins. They do act like they can get away with anything and take jokes way too far.
So in the end, no one is the most credible person in this situation. We weren't there and don't know what happened, so I'm not taking sides. Because I really don't know! I don't see how anyone can take sides unless they were there.[/QUOTE]
If watched Tonya from the beginning as well and I was just wondering if you can give me an example of when she lied about something, because she hasnt.
britt, I don't think the poster you quoted is taking this situation to say that there have been other incidents of rape, but to examine the challenge environment and say there have been plenty of inappropriate and/or rude behavior involving these two. Just doing a history run. Some of the people who don't do as many shows or have decided to quit have done so because things have changed. Some people have complained about having a lot of the freedoms they used to have taken away. They can't go out as much anymore. I remember in a daily clip from one challenge - I think Duel 2 - only one person at a time could go out for a run, instead of a group of friends. A few people said they had a bad time on The Ruins. Alcohol becomes the easiest source of entertainment when you can't go anywhere and they make sure to give a big budget for it or supply a huge amount of it.
[QUOTE=RW561015;285093]britt, I don't think the poster you quoted is taking this situation to say that there have been other incidents of rape, but to examine the challenge environment and say there have been plenty of inappropriate and/or rude behavior involving these two. Just doing a history run. Some of the people who don't do as many shows or have decided to quit have done so because things have changed. Some people have complained about having a lot of the freedoms they used to have taken away. They can't go out as much anymore. I remember in a daily clip from one challenge - I think Duel 2 - only one person at a time could go out for a run, instead of a group of friends. A few people said they had a bad time on The Ruins. Alcohol becomes the easiest source of entertainment when you can't go anywhere and they make sure to give a big budget for it or supply a huge amount of it.[/QUOTE]
I understand that aspect of the argument as alcohol and isolation is a huge factor in many, MANY reality television shows in the hopes that it leads to terrible behavior, which it does. However, what I took most offense with what was said before was that they were comparing the women to rape victims. The way I understood it was not that they were trying to say there have been other incidents of rape but that the reason women keep returning to these shows can be summed up by how rape victims act. That to me just seems completely off-base and presumptuous. Tina, who doesn't even do challenges anymore and has no reason to put her credibility in jeopardy to lie to defend MTV, has come out to say she has always been treated well on challenges.
[QUOTE=Sloan;285020]Isn't the fact that all parties involved agreed to toll the statute of limitations on these allegations from the time Tonya originally came forward with her complaint in May 2010 to now, indicative that they have already pursued some kind of mediation unsuccessfully? Otherwise wouldn't Tonya have formally sued earlier than right before her October 28th deadline? They were obviously doing something in all that time...and obviously whatever it was wasn't acceptable to Tonya...[/QUOTE]
Good thought and to be honest, I have no idea. I thought someone else on here had speculated that BMP/MTV asked for more time in order to probe further into the matter and investigate and that Tonya had agreed. Now we know Tonya is pursung her suit and MTV calls it "baseless". So I guess we assume each side feels they have "evidence" that the extended time allowed for them to obtain?
I am only familiar with waiving the statute of limitations so that an additional victim could come forward even though a considerable amount of time had passed. I had assumed, perhaps mistakenly so, that Tonya and BMP had agreed on more time, thus giving them time to review and her time to pursue even after 2 years. Maybe 10/28/11 is a two year mark to filming or something?
I would have expected them to have mediation in the contract.
[QUOTE=danw34;285081] [B]NO ONE INVOLVED WITH THE PRODUCTION OF THE SHOW INTERVENES.[/B][/QUOTE]
I am NOT at all condoning this behavior. Not at all. But I will say I feel all these darn shows are like that. I mean Teen Mom had a toddler in the room in the midst of the mother whaling on her father and MTV didn't put the camera down and move the kid from the room. So many Challenge fights were so bad and the cameras kept rolling. I don't even think we can say this is bad producer behavior, this is an ugly side of humanity that somehow has become ok. All these people who film street violence, police brutality, storms crushing people in their homes, you name it. We have civilians filming this on their cell phones now. No one puts down the camera and intercedes. It saddens me and I think it is wrong. There is a chip missing. But I guess, scarily enough, MTV isn't alone in this behavior.
Again, I am not condoning it!
[QUOTE]The "Real World" is firing back at Tonya Cooley's lawsuit ... claiming she was raped by a tooth brush during filming ... calling her accusations "completely baseless."
TMZ broke the story ... Tonya filed the suit against MTV, Bunim/Murray Productions, Kenneth Santucci, Evan Starkman and others ... claiming two guys used a tooth brush rather inappropriately on her while she was passed out and cameras rolled during filming of "The Real World/Road Rules Challenge: The Ruins."
Cooley claimed producers knew all about the incident and never told her.
A rep for Bunim/Murray, the production company behind the show, tells TMZ they actually "a thorough investigation" into the allegations -- but "found Tonya Cooley's claims to be completely baseless."
Cooley is suing for unspecified damages.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/29/real-world-rape-tonya-cooley-lawsuit/#.Tq4FJ_QUqso]'Real World' Producers Respond to Tonya Cooley's Lawsuit, Call It 'Completely Baseless' | TMZ.com[/url]
Hey guys! Case closed! I just solved it! I just checked twitter and I realized Kenny and Evan have tens of thousands of adoring followers. Case closed! No one that popular would ever be involved in something morally objectionable!! Look at all their friends! I guess I was wrong when I cited concrete real life examples of the offensive and demeaning ways in which they treat other people.
[QUOTE=danw34;285161]Hey guys! Case closed! I just solved it! I just checked twitter and I realized Kenny and Evan have tens of thousands of adoring followers. Case closed! No one that popular would ever be involved in something morally objectionable!! Look at all their friends! I guess I was wrong when I cited concrete real life examples of the offensive and demeaning ways in which they treat other people.[/QUOTE]
You would think people would have learned something from the duke lacrosse case but apparently that's wishful thinking.
[QUOTE=danw34;285161]Hey guys! Case closed! I just solved it! I just checked twitter and I realized Kenny and Evan have tens of thousands of adoring followers. Case closed! No one that popular would ever be involved in something morally objectionable!! Look at all their friends! I guess I was wrong when I cited concrete real life examples of the offensive and demeaning ways in which they treat other people.[/QUOTE]
This is a pretty impressive marginalization of what's going on. Would you prefer they be guillotined or drawn and quartered? Either way as long as we don't see any conclusive evidence it's probably all good right? Oh wait...we have seen evidence cause Kenny called Tonya a retard that one time! And Evan said that Katie Doyle isn't athletic! Yup...book it. We should probably write TJ up too since he called Ashli a quitter. And I should turn myself in since I was happier for Johnny when he won Rivals than I was for Paula.
[QUOTE=Browncow;285157]I am NOT at all condoning this behavior. Not at all. But I will say I feel all these darn shows are like that. I mean Teen Mom had a toddler in the room in the midst of the mother whaling on her father and MTV didn't put the camera down and move the kid from the room. So many Challenge fights were so bad and the cameras kept rolling. I don't even think we can say this is bad producer behavior, this is an ugly side of humanity that somehow has become ok. All these people who film street violence, police brutality, storms crushing people in their homes, you name it. We have civilians filming this on their cell phones now. No one puts down the camera and intercedes. It saddens me and I think it is wrong. There is a chip missing. But I guess, scarily enough, MTV isn't alone in this behavior.
Again, I am not condoning it![/QUOTE]
I don't know that they would have any duty to intervene unless they were apart of the cause of what was immediately happening. I don't think they should intervene in challenges; and there are some circumstances where they may not have known what was going on immediately in this situation if it is true, but it is the cover up of something, if something happened, that will be their downfall. Nothing screams guilt like a cover up.
I second the person who asked, when has Tonya lied? I never watched her season, but I have watched her on the challenges and while people like to call her a liar, I haven't actually seen her lie. Yes, she an emotionally unstable mess, but I don't see how that makes her claim suspect. In fact, emotionally unstable, vulnerable women are more likely to be sexually assaulted. I find it very hard to believe that Tonya is lying about this. Based on what I've seen on the challenges of JEK's behavior, I find it much more likely that they did this, than Tonya is lying. Of course if I were a juror in court I would presume innocence until proven guilty, but I'm not a juror in court. Instead I am just a person who who is surveying the facts and using my common sense to come to the most likely conclusion based on what I see.
I'm sure the lying stuff happens off-camera or outside the show.
I remember watching the Inferno 2 "Hot Gossip (reunion)" and Tonya said she put Veronica's toothbrush in the toilet and it cut to Tina saying that Tonya is a pathological liar.
I think that if this was two other cast members, say Brad and Darrell, people would be questioning Tonya's claims a lot more. Kenny and Evan did themselves no favors by acting like complete punks on the Ruins and other challenges. Over the last couple of years Kenny has appeared to me to clean up his act somewhat but it looks like he took action too late.
What does it say about how you behave on this show when after people read an article like this, they can totally buy the fact that you are capable of such an act? I wouldn't feel good about some of my past behavior, that's for sure. Maybe this will be a wake call of sorts if these allegations are indeed proven to be false.
[QUOTE=JL81790;285164]This is a pretty impressive marginalization of what's going on. Would you prefer they be guillotined or drawn and quartered? Either way as long as we don't see any conclusive evidence it's probably all good right? Oh wait...we have seen evidence cause Kenny called Tonya a retard that one time! And Evan said that Katie Doyle isn't athletic! Yup...book it. We should probably write TJ up too since he called Ashli a quitter. And I should turn myself in since I was happier for Johnny when he won Rivals than I was for Paula.[/QUOTE]
If this doesn't deserve an eye roll I don't know what does...Johnny Bananas is that you?
[QUOTE=TSPKM2;285179]If this doesn't deserve an eye roll I don't know what does...Johnny Bananas is that you?[/QUOTE]
Nor is it anything I actually believe. If you read the post it is a response to another poster equally sarcastically said that Kenny and Evan must be innocent because they have a lot of twitter followers. You probably missed that though since you're on that side of the fence.
Does anyone remember the rape case during the first RW San Diego? They covered that up...I don't remember production did anything there either! - unconscious, raped her in the bathroom...I think the name of the guy was Justin he was Randy's friend. They couldn't find the enough evidence...
[QUOTE=Calinks;285177]I think that if this was two other cast members, say Brad and Darrell, people would be questioning Tonya's claims a lot more. Kenny and Evan did themselves no favors by acting like complete punks on the Ruins and other challenges. Over the last couple of years Kenny has appeared to me to clean up his act somewhat but it looks like he took action too late.
What does it say about how you behave on this show when after people read an article like this, they can totally buy the fact that you are capable of such an act? I wouldn't feel good about some of my past behavior, that's for sure. Maybe this will be a wake call of sorts if these allegations are indeed proven to be false.[/QUOTE]
But given Brad and Darrell's physical history on the Challenge and both being sent home for fighting, would you believe it if you read an article saying either one (or together) beat a guy up in the park?
I'm a little confused at this point. Why is it not okay to judge Tonya as she was portrayed on the challenges but totally permissible to galvanize Evan and Kenny's characters because of the way they were edited?
[QUOTE=Christiane;285183]Does anyone remember the rape case during the first RW San Diego? They covered that up...I don't remember production did anything there either! - unconscious, raped her in the bathroom...I think the name of the guy was Justin he was Randy's friend. They couldn't find the enough evidence...[/QUOTE]
It was at the start of filming and MTV took no responsibility because it happened in a club and then she was re-cast, right?
[QUOTE=jhl182;285176]I'm sure the lying stuff happens off-camera or outside the show.
I remember watching the Inferno 2 "Hot Gossip (reunion)" and Tonya said she put Veronica's toothbrush in the toilet and it cut to Tina saying that Tonya is a pathological liar.[/QUOTE]
Does it seem odd or coincidental that this is the second Tonya reference to a tooth brush?
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