[QUOTE=Balmont;284373]
Are you saying God is anti-gay? If so, it is as repellent as the South's use of passages in the bible to defend slavery before the Civil War. Using scripture literally to give an okay to hatred or horrible practices is a shameful practice. There is no defense for homophobia and there is no defense for the disallowance of equal human rights because of one's sexual orientation. Zach can live in his cocoon and Ashley, who states she had no idea 300 gay people would be in the military, can join him. I would instead hope they grow up.[/QUOTE]
I don't speak for God, but in your historical context, religious freedom is well spelled out in the Constitution and well-defended in law. Sexual freedoms not so much. And the Bible, at least, admonishes both heterosexual and homosexual activities. I personally don't see not wanting to go to a gay club as being the same as tying somebody to a fence and beating them to death, but it is not an issue that I feel strong emotions for since "basic human rights" is very subjective. The point is that people on the extremes of an issue are so self-righteous in their beliefs that they cannot be brought together, so why try? To me Frank knows this is just uses this as a tool to garner more attention for himself.
[QUOTE=Balmont;284373]
When someone repeatedly shows hostility towards someone else because of race, religion, sexual orientation, the other person is going to speak up. Frank confronting Zach tonight makes perfect sense. Zach said a horrific thing to Sam that went directly at Sam's sexual orientation. I would have a problem if Frank was aware a fellow LGBT individual be attacked and said nothing.
[/QUOTE]
But is Zach openly hostile towards Frank? I agree a hundred times over about what he said to Sam and the fact that he followed it up with "What are you gonna do? I'm bigger than you" makes it even worse. He also said he wouldn't have said it if he had known Sam was having a bad day. No. He shouldn't have said it period, end of story. I also don't have a problem with Frank taking up for Sam...but he really didn't say anything to Zach's face. He said, "Hey that wasn't nice, she's having a bad day, k bye." Have some conviction and stand up to the kid if you're actually passionate and don't just wait until he's not around to say stuff.
However, I don't agree that Zach's doing anything to Frank. If anything he's AVOIDING talking to Frank. He's declining invites to gay bars and pride and whatnot and trying not to associate himself with such events. Is it closed minded? Absolutely. Is he openly showing HOSTILITY? No. Even the scene when they dropped Frank and Sam off at the gay bar if anything Nate was the one who was more homophobic with his whole "get me outta here...I saw dudes kissing" speech. Zach said he wanted to shoot a gun and eat a steak, two things in his comfort zone. I think that was an eye rolling "you're a moron" type of moment, not something that was a blatant attack on homosexuality. I think you have to be blind to believe that Zach isn't a homophobe, but I don't think he's done anything (as of yet) "hostile" towards Frank specifically. I think Frank is more hostile about Zach's lifestyle choices and is more actively pushing his own beliefs on Zach. Gay or straight if you're an ***, you're an ***, and Frank is an ***. I think there's more to a human being than just their sexual/racial/social identification and the fact that Frank underlines all the conflicts he's had in the house with his sexual orientation is ridiculous. There are obviously people out there who don't like gay people because they're gay but to use that as your default crutch of an explanation as to why someone doesn't like you solely defines you by your sexuality. And I thought Frank's goal was to be defined by more than his sexuality was it not?
Did anyone see the Tide Report? Is anyone else annoyed that Zach wasn't there but Alexandra was? lol Oh and i like how Sam called out Nate for not saying anything to Zach at the ping pong table.
[url=http://www.mtv.com/videos/real-world-san-diego-ep-5-tide-report/1673229/playlist.jhtml#series=2212&seriesId=36993&channelId=1]Real World San Diego | Ep. 5 | Tide Report | MTV[/url]
[QUOTE=TheCollegeD;284258]Why in the hell did they cast her?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dash_Vegas!;284263]I think by now, even BMP has forgotten why[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JL81790;284297]Ashley is one of the most boring people I've watched on tv BUT in that dress on the aftershow I agree with the assessment of her ***.[/QUOTE]
They weren't planning on it, originally. They had someone else in mind who dropped out in the final round. So, technically, she was a replacement.
I wonder if she knows that...
She must have really fluffed her tape in order to get on. Perhaps her tape was all about getting out of the house for the first time, and trying new things and being more adventurous. If by "trying new things and being more adventurous", she meant going to a new gym and doing an extra 5 lbs on her squats, then yes! She achieved her goal!
[QUOTE=gnarly;284366]There is more to people than sexuality, but apparently not for these 3 or so episodes
[/QUOTE]
exactly why I said we should move past the whole "gay thing". I'm gay, but after a while..this **** gets old.
Move on to the next storyline already, doubt it's going to happen since the preview for next weeks episode seems to be the same homophobic drama.
[QUOTE=erodwhtboy;284326]Glad Zach is on this show only reason I tune in. I can't stand Frank he just seems like a big ***** and lashes out at everyone then apologizes like he's ok for doing what he does. S[B]o Zach doesn't want to go to gay stuff you can't blame him HE'S STRAIGHT[/B][/QUOTE]
I understand that, but the difference is that Zach is an ignorant and mean *******. He doesn't care about anyone but himself and it's disgusting.
I find it interesting that when anything "gay" is brought up in front of Zach he says that he is freaked out. What is he so scared of?? That going to a gay club or being around people will make him gay? He is just ignorant and doesn't want to be educated about anything.
[QUOTE=molds13;284387]They weren't planning on it, originally. They had someone else in mind who dropped out in the final round. So, technically, she was a replacement.
I wonder if she knows that...
She must have really fluffed her tape in order to get on. Perhaps her tape was all about getting out of the house for the first time, and trying new things and being more adventurous. If by "trying new things and being more adventurous", she meant going to a new gym and doing an extra 5 lbs on her squats, then yes! She achieved her goal![/QUOTE]
Thanks for the confirmation, after the first couple episodes I was like "someone must've dropped out last minute for her to make it on." I'm curious what the girl whose place she took was like/about...
[QUOTE=TheCollegeD;284392]Thanks for the confirmation, after the first couple episodes i was like "someone must've dropped out last minute for her to make it on." I'm curious what the girl whose place she took was like/about...[/QUOTE]
It's just even more amazing that she made it past the first 2 rounds of casting.
Finally got to watch the episode. I really liked it. Here is my opinion on the Zach/Ashley thing:
I think the people who defending those two are missing the real reason Sam is upset. Sam is doing what any other caring person would do. All she wants to do to educate and show Zach what the culture is about, and the two of them keep fighting her. It's not just anger at the fact they won't go to pride, it's their comments, the fact they only want to do things together, and they just flat out refuse to learn. Nate was in the same boat with them but he has really opened his mind and learned and made good friends.
There is no excuse. It's 2011, you know there are gay people in the world, and they both should have been prepared to have gay roommates. Hell, this show has helped bring many gay causes to the forefront, mind you in the much earlier seasons.
Sam's anger is fully justified, and she isn't pushing her lifestyle on them. She simply just wants to educate and enjoy this experience with them to full, but they won't do that bc of their closed minds.
I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who don't realize that not every place in the country is as open to homosexuality as theirs might be. If Zach grew up in a neighborhood where gays kept to themselves, went to high school, and then college where this was the same, that's not his fault. He's not used to it and he's probably afraid. It's a new experience for him.
I at least can commend Zach for not succumbing to the pressures of opening up to things when you don't want to. Gay culture is not the same as gay right and if he doesn't want to partake in it, it's his choice.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;284403][B]I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who don't realize that not every place in the country is as open to homosexuality as theirs might be. If Zach grew up in a neighborhood where gays kept to themselves, went to high school, and then college where this was the same, that's not his fault. He's not used to it and he's probably afraid. It's a new experience for him.[/B]
I at least can commend Zach for not succumbing to the pressures of opening up to things when you don't want to. Gay culture is not the same as gay right and if he doesn't want to partake in it, it's his choice.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that is whats happening. It isn't about that at all; it is about the way he handles himself. I understand he isn't used to it, but he can be respectful.
[QUOTE=ballinbroken;284411]I don't think I'm going to watch the next episode. I'm a guy and although I'm not homaphobic, I'd rather not watch Frank kissing guys for 40 minutes.[/QUOTE]
This season is very annoying and repetitious. I'm over it. Bring on the challenge!!
[QUOTE=RMD1;284406]I don't think that is whats happening. It isn't about that at all; it is about the way he handles himself.[B] I understand he isn't used to it, but he can be respectful.[/B][/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's the [I]way[/I] he says things.
[QUOTE=RMD1;284406]I don't think that is whats happening. It isn't about that at all; it is about the way he handles himself. I understand he isn't used to it, but he can be respectful.[/QUOTE]
I agree, Ashley and Zach have the right to not want to go to gay clubs.But Zach is not just uncomfortable he is repulsed by it.In the next weeks episode he is standing there watching Frank with another guy making all these comments.It's like dude you guys are at some outdoor event just walk away and do something else,not that hard to do if it makes you uncomfortable.
[QUOTE=InfamousJoks;284413]Exactly. It's the [I]way[/I] he says things.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. He also isn't very willing and I think that makes people mad as well. People don't like ignorance, especially with an important social issue that America is facing today.
There is something different about this season, and I might be in the minority, but I kind of enjoy it. It is a bit bland and repetitive, but I also kind of find it interesting.
As for Zach, he has the right to pick and choose where he wants to go and who he wants to hang out with, but his comments are degrading and narcissistic (I have long hair and just got my eye brows done). Not only does he have to get over himself (I honestly never saw a straight guy use that much skin care products in my life) but he has to understand not everyone is the same. he has the right to do what he wants, but there is also a way to say things. And don't get me started on his little pet. Whats her name? Stacey? Ashley? something like that. Anyway, she is super lame. Bad casting choice at BMP in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;284403]I don't understand why there are so many people on this board who don't realize that not every place in the country is as open to homosexuality as theirs might be. If Zach grew up in a neighborhood where gays kept to themselves, went to high school, and then college where this was the same, that's not his fault. He's not used to it and he's probably afraid. It's a new experience for him.
I at least can commend Zach for not succumbing to the pressures of opening up to things when you don't want to. [B] Gay culture is not the same as gay right and if he doesn't want to partake in it, it's his choice[/B].[/QUOTE]
^^^and that is a very profound distinction people often miss. Kudos to you.
For me it seems as if Zach might have been relieved that Frank acted like such a ****** up till now during this season - from Zach's behavior it's absolutely apparent that he is homophobic, but Frank fortunately helps him to cover that. Is it understandable that someone really dislikes Frank (except for being ********)? Yes. Would Zach still have disliked him if Frank was a nicer person? I'm pretty sure.
[QUOTE=RMD1;284415]Exactly. He also isn't very willing and I think that makes people mad as well. People don't like ignorance, especially with an important social issue that America is facing today.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly why he's coming off rude. He isn't used to living or even hanging out with gay people, but do people go on this show for the learning experience anymore? No. They go to party, to be on TV, have sex, and be on "vacation" for a couple months. Zach seriously needs to open up more and not be so closed off. The season would be so much better if he was willing to learn new things and accept Frank and Sam's lifestyle.
[QUOTE=fabulous788;284424]This is exactly why [B]he's coming off rude[/B]. He isn't used to living or even hanging out with gay people, but do people go on this show for the learning experience anymore? No. They go to party, to be on TV, have sex, and be on "vacation" for a couple months. Zach seriously needs to open up more and not be so closed off. The season would be so much better if he was willing to learn new things and accept Frank and Sam's lifestyle.[/QUOTE]
You know I never disagree with you, but I don't think he is coming off rude, I think he is just a rude person. You can tell by the way he speaks and what he says. I grew up in a very sheltered community, but I would never be rude to someone. I can possibly understand him disliking Frank because of a personality clash, but disrespecting Sam was a different story. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. And people wonder why this generation is becoming stupider and ignorant!
[QUOTE=fabulous788;284424]This is exactly why he's coming off rude. He isn't used to living or even hanging out with gay people, but do people go on this show for the learning experience anymore? No. They go to party, to be on TV, have sex, and be on "vacation" for a couple months. Zach seriously needs to open up more and not be so closed off. The season would be so much better if he was willing to learn new things and accept Frank and Sam's lifestyle.[/QUOTE]
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but during the After Show, Zach said he has friends that are gay. So the notion that he has somehow been living under a rock somewhere unaware of the world around him is untrue.
[QUOTE=jase1;284431]Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but during the After Show, Zach said he has friends that are gay. So the notion that he has somehow been living under a rock somewhere unaware of the world around him is untrue.[/QUOTE]
He said that they keep to themselves or don't flaunt it. Like he doesn't see his gay friends making out or anything.
[QUOTE=CrazyRealityGuy;284429]You know I never disagree with you, but I don't think he is coming off rude, I think he is just a rude person. You can tell by the way he speaks and what he says. I grew up in a very sheltered community, but I would never be rude to someone. I can possibly understand him disliking Frank because of a personality clash, but disrespecting Sam was a different story. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. And people wonder why this generation is becoming stupider and ignorant![/QUOTE]
I do think he's coming off rude, but not intentionally. I think he doesn't see that he's being rude and he's brushing his rudeness off as jokes. I feel as if he's not open to anybody's lifestyle, but his own. And in doing this, he comes off in a very cocky and rude way in my opinion.
[QUOTE=jase1;284431]Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but during the After Show, Zach said he has friends that are gay. So the notion that he has somehow been living under a rock somewhere unaware of the world around him is untrue.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;284432]He said that they keep to themselves or don't flaunt it. Like he doesn't see his gay friends making out or anything.[/QUOTE]
I didn't watch the aftershow because I thought it would be pointless. Someone can have gay friends and still never really be exposed to it. He's never lived with them before has he? That's what he's having a problem with. He couldn't even stand that Sam hung up a gay pride flag. This is supposed to be part learning experience and he would probably have more fun and enjoy himself more if he tried new things and accepted them the way they are.
[QUOTE=fabulous788;284434]I didn't watch the aftershow because I thought it would be pointless. Someone can have gay friends and still never really be exposed to it. He's never lived with them before has he? That's what he's having a problem with. He couldn't even stand that Sam hung up a gay pride flag. This is supposed to be part learning experience and he would probably have more fun and enjoy himself more if he tried new things and accepted them the way they are.[/QUOTE]
I don't think one has to be fully exposed to the gay lifestyle to develop a certain level of decency/courtesy toward another person. I find it hard to believe that someone who claims to have gay friends (regardless of the level of friendship) that they would act the way he has.
He could have said a thousand other things to Sam, but he picked the most hurtful thing he could think of. And repeated it moments later no less. There seems to be more to this than what his personal moral/religious beliefs on the subject are.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;284432]He said that they keep to themselves or don't flaunt it. Like he doesn't see his gay friends making out or anything.[/QUOTE]
That is a redflag to homophobia if ever there was one. Another one is the infamous "Hate the sin, don't hate the sinner". Both operate under the notion of many that they are not anti-gay when they bigtime are.
Now if Zach stated I like no pda at all, both heterosexual and homosexual, it would be one thing. However by stating what he does in a way that specifically targets LGBT individuals, Zach is stating homosexuality will be tolerated as long as those that are hide any evidence of their sexuality. It is like the parents who say they still love their gay child but ask the gay child not bring home their boyfriend or not talk about anything that pertains to them being gay. That is a complete and utter disrespecting of the individual.
Also Nightwolf stated that Zach has not said anything against gay rights. However Zach's conversation with Brock was about gays in the military marching and there was an agreement from both Zach and Brock gays in the military was something neither supported. It doesn't get much more bigoted than to say a person, due to their sexual orientation, should not serve their country. Thank goodness that bigoted law was struck down.
[QUOTE]I don't think one has to be fully exposed to the gay lifestyle to develop a certain level of decency/courtesy toward another person. I find it hard to believe that someone who claims to have gay friends (regardless of the level of friendship) that they would act the way he has.
He could have said a thousand other things to Sam, but he picked the most hurtful thing he could think of. And repeated it moments later no less. There seems to be more to this than just his personal moral/religious beliefs on the subject are. [/QUOTE]
I think there is too. I have been wondering the same thing. There is something really off here in this repugnant individual. While it is good for a dialogue to be opened, couldn't they do something more intriguing. Why not two gay men or two lesbians in the home on the hope they strike up a romance (in the same way they throw straights in the home based on the hope they will strike up a romance). And they have also shown Sam and Frank hooking up with people. Was there no dating? Instead the focus has been on the Zach and his shadow Ashley, a loathsome couple.
[QUOTE=Balmont;284443]
Now if Zach stated I like no pda at all, both heterosexual and homosexual, it would be one thing. However by stating what he does in a way that specifically targets LGBT individuals, [B]Zach is stating homosexuality will be tolerated as long as those that are hide any evidence of their sexuality.[/B] It is like the parents who say they still love their gay child but ask the gay child not bring home their boyfriend or not talk about anything that pertains to them being gay. That is a complete and utter disrespecting of the individual. [/QUOTE]
THIS^^
Frank said himself that Zach had no problem with him until he brought home a guy. Since then, Zach avoided him and treated him like a lesser person. That is homophobia in its finest I believe.
I think Frank could handle things differently, but since dealing with people who don't accept him for who's in his bedroom (and shower and hottub) is new to him, I think he just can't handle the disrespect or people's opinions of him changing. It's understandable IMO.
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