The Challenge: Generic Thread

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Last time I checked the Challenge is not the Olympics. It's normal to compete and have a FAIR shot at the money. Nobody is saying that Cara Maria and Laurel are not better, but they had an advantage over everyone else because they were taller and "stronger". So it was obvious that they were going to win, since before they start competing. It wasn't fair, since Cara Maria/Laurel had a height advantage. They should had play something else, like Unburied, for either team to win.
[QUOTE=bombshell917;283541]Last time I checked the Challenge is not the Olympics. It's normal to compete and have a FAIR shot at the money. Nobody is saying that Cara Maria and Laurel are not better, but they had an advantage over everyone else because they were taller and "stronger". So it was obvious that they were going to win, since before they start competing. It wasn't fair, since Cara Maria/Laurel had a height advantage. They should had play something else, like Unburied, for either team to win.[/QUOTE] Yeah and Beth had a weight advantage over Ruthie. And Tyler had a weight advantage over Derrick. And MJ had a size advantage over Ryan. And Timmy had a weight advantage over Derrick. I can keep going but I hope you get the point. You can't have nothing that revolves around some size or it's not fair. There's nothing wrong with giving everyone a fair chance, but there's no way to give everyone a fair chance and have it not get boring/repetitive.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;283542]Yeah and Beth had a weight advantage over Ruthie. And Tyler had a weight advantage over Derrick. And MJ had a size advantage over Ryan. And Timmy had a weight advantage over Derrick. I can keep going but I hope you get the point. You can't have nothing that revolves around some size or it's not fair. There's nothing wrong with giving everyone a fair chance, but there's no way to give everyone a fair chance and have it not get boring/repetitive.[/QUOTE] Who is Timmy? (Rivals was the first challenge I saw. But now I have seen Duel II, Ruins, and Cutthroat online) Yeah I get your point, but I still think it was unfair they repeated that particular jungle with them.
[QUOTE=bombshell917;283541]Last time I checked the Challenge is not the Olympics. It's normal to compete and have a FAIR shot at the money. Nobody is saying that Cara Maria and Laurel are not better, but they had an advantage over everyone else because they were taller and "stronger". So it was obvious that they were going to win, since before they start competing. It wasn't fair, since Cara Maria/Laurel had a height advantage. They should had play something else, like Unburied, for either team to win.[/QUOTE] Okay so Laurel needs to kneel to compete? Evelyn needs to stop training to compete? All competitons need to be puzzles? Oh wait that wont work since some people are smarter than others. So all eliminations need to be pick a number between 1 and 10 and whoever guesses closest wins? Give me a break, competitions arent FAIR! They dont give a team in baseball 2 extra points if they have a weaker team than their opponent. Its a COMPETITION, there will always be someone better at something than another person. Yeah Laurel has a height advantage, Aneesa has a weight advantage, thats apart of the game, if you want to do better at the game then go train and work hard for it, people shouldnt just be handed a win just because, there are people who work hard to get in shape to be successful at these things.
I love watching challenges, but I'm getting tired of seeing the same alliances and same people winning. I think this is what makes the speculation of challenges easy.
All I ask of them this challenge is this. Please, please stop with all of the elaborate, timed, water challenges. I can't tell you how tired I am of seeing those. I thought maybe they got rid of those after seeing Cutthroat and how cool some of that stuff was but nope, they brought them back for Rivals. Rivals had some very disappointing challenges. Let's save some of that money and go back to simpler tests of skill and athleticism. Lets do some physical person vs person challenges. Let's do some cool team puzzles. Let's play dodge ball, I really don't give a crap but stop it with all the water acrobatics. I would really like a challenge in a winter environment. Where some of the challenges are outdoors in the snow and others are in some sort of arena where they can set stuff up. That would be pretty cool visually but I don't see them ever doing something like that.
No No No to challenges with winter environments. I don't want to see them with bundles of clothes on or wet suits. I want to see a tropical location with lots of physical challenges. I want to see swimming, endurance, obstacles, 1 on 1 battles.
[QUOTE=TSPKM2;283538]Thats silly, production shouldnt make challenges so everybody has a chance to win, let the best team win and if Laurel and Cara Maria are better competitors than Jonna and Jasmine (which they are) then so be it.[/QUOTE] By law, everyone must have a reasonably equal chance to win. Absent fair competitions, then there would be no need to even have a competition. The best team or teams would likely be obvious -- just ask the challenge "experts" who rank people here all the time. Giive the obvious winner(s) a check(s) and save us all the aggravation of thinking it's real... No need to even go on location except to shoot some establishing shots. Seriously, though. It really is far more complex. I'll credit Jon Murray for telling me several years ago that a future "Battle of the Sexes" (BOTS) was very unlikely, given how difficult it is to make competitions fair for the men and women to compete against each other. That argues in favor of a company view that fairness -- or at least the appearance of it -- is necessary. However, anecdotal evidence from numerous challenge crew and cast over the years does suggest there is producer manipulation of many elements of the competitions to ensure they can make the TV show they think attracts the most viewers. I can't fault them for wanting to do that, but it does suggests the "BOTS" fairness position is fungible. What do I mean by that? Here's a classic example: The Duel: Svetlana v Beth. Was the half-hour plus of producer deliberation about how to deal with an undefined situation? Was it to write the script for TJ to later record the new "rule?" Was it to determine who had the better story line going forward, Beth or Svetlana? Was it to seek guidance from back home? Was their decision all about future ratings and what the company had planned for Svetlana? Fairness, my ***.
I wouldn't mind a [I]few[/I] water challenges if they were designed differently. Why does everything need a crane? I watch a lot of Survivor and most of their water challenges (especially from earlier seasons) are a lot of fun, but they also have multiple steps and are very team oriented. The contestants don't wear any safety gear, either. It seems like Challenge cast members can't get within 50 ft of water without a life vest and a helmet.
[QUOTE=V1man;283557] The Duel: Svetlana v Beth. Was the half-hour plus of producer deliberation about how to deal with an undefined situation? Was it to write the script for TJ to later record the new "rule?" Was it to determine who had the better story line going forward, Beth or Svetlana? Was it to seek guidance from back home? Was their decision all about future ratings and what the company had planned for Svetlana? Fairness, my ***.[/QUOTE] I still don't understand that though. When Beth ripped off the flag Svetlana dropped to the ground and you could hear Brad and a few other cast mates saying, "She ripped it off!" And Brad running over to Svet saying that she had won. Was Svetlana lying on the ground for a half-hour while production was deliberating?
[QUOTE=gamer73;283566]I still don't understand that though. When Beth ripped off the flag Svetlana dropped to the ground and you could hear Brad and a few other cast mates saying, "She ripped it off!" And Brad running over to Svet saying that she had won. Was Svetlana lying on the ground for a half-hour while production was deliberating?[/QUOTE] One of the rules that was said before the duel was that they could not rip it off, so no they just realized it and Svetlana was probably only on the ground for like a minute or something.
[QUOTE=BillyBear231;283567]One of the rules that was said before the duel was that they could not rip it off, so no they just realized it and Svetlana was probably only on the ground for like a minute or something.[/QUOTE] Production had a debate for 30 minutes and retroactively awarded Svetlana the win.
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I wonder how long it takes them to think of a whole bunch of missions to last a season, and then get the country set up with the resources and tools set up on site to have them ready to go
The reason why they had to debate was because Svetlana essentially gave up and collapsed on the ground. Beth waited a minute and then went for the flag, when Svetlana got back up and shook the pole for a few seconds, causing the flag to rip. Production had to decide whether or not Svetlana REALLY gave up or not. They decided that she didn't. That doesn't mean that she didn't, but that's why they decided on.
I question the fairness of the game when they just give people certain elimination rounds. It would be very easy to stack the deck in one teams favor if you could pick and choice what kind of eliminations you are doing. And I don't need an end to all water challenges but they need to tone them down. It feels like 65 percent of challenges revolve around water these days. I also want to see many more head to head contest or team heats as opposed to timing and comparison. More match ups. In one duel; maybe Inferno II, they had a number of very simple yet touch competitions. The first or second one involved then doing a series of drills in the sand given to them by a couple of marines. That was a lot more cool to watch then a lot of this water stuff and it had to be cheaper. More things like Riot Act or games where you have to physical best someone. They should also bring back some interesting puzzles, they should step their puzzle game up and bring something that will really stump people. I liked what they did with the tent in the Rivals final.
Also I havent seen it mention in the last few pages but Leeroy, Chet, and Aiiyia are all on a new "Semi-Challenge". Pretty messed up how the prize is still 50 grand yet they don't have to suffer nearly as much as they do in the challenges. Also, we have the return of Johny Mosley! Haha!
[QUOTE=Calinks;283592]Also I havent seen it mention in the last few pages but Leeroy, Chet, and Aiiyia are all on a new "Semi-Challenge". Pretty messed up how the prize is still 50 grand yet they don't have to suffer nearly as much as they do in the challenges. Also, we have the return of Johny Mosley! Haha![/QUOTE] It's actually been mentioned already quite a few times. It even has it's own thread now: [url=http://vevmo.com/f149/the-controller-battlefield-3-youtube-series-6601/]The Controller - Battlefield 3 (YouTube Series)[/url]
[QUOTE=Calinks;283591]I question the fairness of the game when they just give people certain elimination rounds. It would be very easy to stack the deck in one teams favor if you could pick and choice what kind of eliminations you are doing. And I don't need an end to all water challenges but they need to tone them down. It feels like 65 percent of challenges revolve around water these days. I also want to see many more head to head contest or team heats as opposed to timing and comparison. More match ups. In one duel; maybe Inferno II, they had a number of very simple yet touch competitions. The first or second one involved then doing a series of drills in the sand given to them by a couple of marines. That was a lot more cool to watch then a lot of this water stuff and it had to be cheaper. More things like Riot Act or games where you have to physical best someone. They should also bring back some interesting puzzles, they should step their puzzle game up and bring something that will really stump people. I liked what they did with the tent in the Rivals final.[/QUOTE] You do realize that what you said in the last paragraph contradicted what you said in the first paragraph, right? If there are more physical challenges like Riot Act, guys like CT, Tyler or Leeroy have a much better chance of winning than guys like Ryan K. or even Derrick. Sure there are exceptions to the rule (Derrick on the plank mission on the Duel 1) but usually, the bigger guys will win physical missions. I'm not saying there is anything wrong but I do accept the fact that competition isn't fair.
[QUOTE=faceless;283596]You do realize that what you said in the last paragraph contradicted what you said in the first paragraph, right? If there are more physical challenges like Riot Act, guys like CT, Tyler or Leeroy have a much better chance of winning than guys like Ryan K. or even Derrick. Sure there are exceptions to the rule (Derrick on the plank mission on the Duel 1) but usually, the bigger guys will win physical missions. I'm not saying there is anything wrong but I do accept the fact that competition isn't fair.[/QUOTE] When I said fairness of the game I was referring to fairness of the competition after it has already been established. Sure in some challenges, people will be at a physical or mental disadvantage, I look at that as part of the challenge. With that said, I have concerns about eliminations that may be chosen specifically to favor one team. If every single challenge was made in a way that every single person had no clear advantages, I think that would be dull TV. The key for me is to have a series of challenges where different aspects of a player can shine. Some that are purely physical. Some that require thinking, some that require finesse, others that favor speed. Basically I accept that some people will have an advantage over others in these games. I'm fine with that. Producers possible setting up certain eliminations in hopes of their favorite team sticking around, that I have a problem with.
[QUOTE=fabulous788;283595]It's actually been mentioned already quite a few times. It even has it's own thread now: [url=http://vevmo.com/f149/the-controller-battlefield-3-youtube-series-6601/]The Controller - Battlefield 3 (YouTube Series)[/url][/QUOTE] Nice, didn't think i would get its own thread.
[QUOTE=Calinks;283602]When I said fairness of the game I was referring to fairness of the competition after it has already been established. Sure in some challenges, people will be at a physical or mental disadvantage, I look at that as part of the challenge. With that said, I have concerns about eliminations that may be chosen specifically to favor one team. If every single challenge was made in a way that every single person had no clear advantages, I think that would be dull TV. The key for me is to have a series of challenges where different aspects of a player can shine. Some that are purely physical. Some that require thinking, some that require finesse, others that favor speed. Basically I accept that some people will have an advantage over others in these games. I'm fine with that. Producers possible setting up certain eliminations in hopes of their favorite team sticking around, that I have a problem with.[/QUOTE] I agree, it's not fair if the elimination was chosen by production and clearly gave one person an advantage like the Laurel/CM and Jonna/Jasmine one, it would be ok if that elimination was chosen by random but it wasnt. Although I've noticed that in the past few challenges they were trying to make things a bit more even, like there was a big size difference between the two people then they gave them something not very physical, now its better for the big people to always choose the bigger guy to go in an elimination with, unless they want to loose because of a puzzle or something. I dont like it when the elimination is so even that its almost a coin toss like I wouldnt want CT to go home because of Davis. I liked the duel/Gauntlet format where the elimination is chosen at random, when production chooses the eliminations it makes it seem like theres biases. Like the CM/Laurel one and the Kenny/Wes rope one (I dont want to say the stereotype that black guys climb better, but Alton and Leroy are good climbers and I'm sure production could guess that Brandon would be good at climbing too) but still Kenny/Wes should be strong enough to do well too, so that elimination wasnt too biased but I think production favored Brandon/Ty. And I cant believe they didnt have Ev/Paula and Robin/Annesa do something physical they could handle it, and I would find that more entertaining than that mud balancing crap or the window shutting thing, even Ev said some of the eliminations were ridiculous.
[QUOTE=Calinks;283602][B]When I said fairness of the game I was referring to fairness of the competition after it has already been established.[/B] Sure in some challenges, people will be at a physical or mental disadvantage, I look at that as part of the challenge. With that said, I have concerns about eliminations that may be chosen specifically to favor one team. If every single challenge was made in a way that every single person had no clear advantages, I think that would be dull TV. The key for me is to have a series of challenges where different aspects of a player can shine. Some that are purely physical. Some that require thinking, some that require finesse, others that favor speed. Basically I accept that some people will have an advantage over others in these games. I'm fine with that. Producers possible setting up certain eliminations in hopes of their favorite team sticking around, that I have a problem with.[/QUOTE] So what you're saying is that you want somethings to be fair and others not to be? You can't pick and choose what is fair or not. Regarding the bolded part: whoever comes up with the missions know that there are going to be some bigger guys to the small guys on the challenge so they know that someone is going to have an advantage. It doesn't matter if the missions/eliminations are made before/after something is already established because someone is ALWAYS going to have an advantage.
[QUOTE=faceless;283611][b]So what you're saying is that you want somethings to be fair and others not to be? You can't pick and choose what is fair or not. [/B]Regarding the bolded part: whoever comes up with the missions know that there are going to be some bigger guys to the small guys on the challenge so they know that someone is going to have an advantage. It doesn't matter if the missions/eliminations are made before/after something is already established because someone is ALWAYS going to have an advantage.[/QUOTE] You seem to have trouble understanding what I am getting at. This is a competition. Some people will have advantages during those competitions. That's fine. What I don't like is the idea of production choosing eliminations so they can favor a particular team. In sports like basketball, football, etc. The rules of the game are set up for fair competition. Now will there be times when Lebron James is matched up against a rookie who can't defend? Were there times when Shaquille O'neal who is a 7 foot center had a 6 foot guard covering him? Yes, those are mis matches, those are not "fair" to the mismatched player but it is "fair" in the spirit of the game. Nobody wants the game to be 100 percent neutral in every facet. You want to see people use their strengths to their advantage and you want to see people have their weaknesses exposed. That is all part of the game, it is what everybody signs up for and what viewers spend their time watching to see.
Challenges are preplanned, they know what challenges/eliminations they are going to do before they even go on location probably. Its not the productions fault if a weak *** team/player gets thrown into an elimination against a strong team/player. The reality of it is, is if you want to do well and win and make sure you dont lose in an elimination, then do the work needed to be done prior to the challenge. Nobody is to blame for anybody losing except that person/team. I'm sorry that everybody's favorite team Jonna/Jasmine lost to Laurel and Cara Maria in an elimination game that specifically favored physically athletic people, but its not productions fault or Laurel and Cara Maria's fault that Jonna and Jasmine lost, its Jonna and Jasmine's fault that they lost, they werent good enough, they failed, they werent strong enough to continue and its over now.
[QUOTE=TSPKM2;283627]Challenges are preplanned, they know what challenges/eliminations they are going to do before they even go on location probably. Its not the productions fault if a weak *** team/player gets thrown into an elimination against a strong team/player..[/QUOTE] Yes but how are we supposed to know that as viewers. How are we supposed to know that production didn't decide to switch up the eliminations after they heard who the match up was between. It seems very likely that the elimination between laurel, cara maria and jonna, jasmine was chosen after the 2 teams were picked because of the fighting between cara and jenn. Obviously, if the elimination is between someone like CT and someone like Davis, the production is going to want the more entertaining person to come back. Production favors the person that exacerbates situations and creates more drama.
Obviously they are preplanned .But if things were so preplanned, how come they were the only ones that got a repeated elimination round instead of seeting a new one that was easier to set up since they we're leaving to Argentina the next day? The order of the elimination rounds are not preplanned, I think they decide which eliminination to give that day according to that particular team that are thrown in. For example I think T-bone was an elimination round that was made just for CT to be in, since they know he is a beast and people like to see him on a physical challenges or physical eliminations rounds so that would be equals ratings. Also, I think they would give an advantage to the team that productions think is going to cause more drama when they come back to the house. In the case of Cara Maria/Laurel vs Jonna/Jasmine, that was Laurel and Cara Maria since they had almost the entire house against them. Plus they knew both of them were going to be a better match against Evelyn on a final, since they have been on a final before. I also don't think that Jonna and Jasmine were a really weak team. Maybe not as strong when it comes to physical eliminations like Laurel, but Jonna proves that she is pretty good at puzzles. Who knows, maybe they are also strong when it comes to running long distance.
[QUOTE=Calinks;283625]You seem to have trouble understanding what I am getting at. This is a competition. Some people will have advantages during those competitions. That's fine. What I don't like is the idea of production choosing eliminations so they can favor a particular team. In sports like basketball, football, etc. The rules of the game are set up for fair competition. Now will there be times when Lebron James is matched up against a rookie who can't defend? Were there times when Shaquille O'neal who is a 7 foot center had a 6 foot guard covering him? Yes, those are mis matches, those are not "fair" to the mismatched player but it is "fair" in the spirit of the game. Nobody wants the game to be 100 percent neutral in every facet. You want to see people use their strengths to their advantage and you want to see people have their weaknesses exposed. That is all part of the game, it is what everybody signs up for and what viewers spend their time watching to see.[/QUOTE] Fair enough... But what if what the producers, knowing which people will face each other in an elimination competition, look at the options an pick one that will favor the person that best serves their favored story line? What if during past challenges, where one cast member was able to pick an elimination competition by number, not knowing what that competition was, but all the numbers were actually for the same elimination event. Please explain the fairness of those to me -- and there may be a few cast members curious about your explanation as well.
[QUOTE=ballinbroken;283629]Yes but how are we supposed to know that as viewers (?) [/QUOTE] By reading vevmo and paying attention to what cast members have to say. They do talk -- often with hidden meaning. One has to know how to listen to or read carefully what cast members have to say.
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