Real World Las Vegas 2: Dustin Shows His Hand, Heather Folds

As perhaps the only poster here who actually has direct experience with dustin/spencer/speezy during his Fratpad career, I think my view of both tonights episode and Dustins previous behavior on TRW mayb e unique. I was a member of Fratpad for about a year, during which time I had the opportunity to have many conversations with Dustin during his shows. I felt at the time and still believe that the man I got to know as Spencer was a genuine representation of the man Dustin was at that time (a little over a year ago). He was very open about his conflict about what he was doing not in that he had moral qualms about his performance activities but moreso about his SERIOUS fear that anyone from his home be it family or long time friends should ever find out about it. Spencer was extremely paranoid about the possibility that any images taken from his shows which depicted him touching other men might be leaked to the general public and be seen by anyone he knows. He, on more than one occasion, went postal when a certain member who had a penchant for taking screen shots of key moments in the shows, hinted (jokingly or not) at blackmail potential. On one occasion after such a joke being made, he went on a 45 minute rant during his show threatening the member in question with everything from banning from the site to personal violence as, in his words, any such images getting back to his friends and family could "destroy his life forever". That being said, I can say that, from my perspective as a gay man who (in a way) knows Dustins inner fears and demons, I can understand (though not completely excuse) his sometimes overcompensating comments about his disdain for gays in general. It is a very immature way of dealing with such a secret but still an understandable one. When I was a younger man in High School, I was in the closet and fearful that my true sexuality might come out. I admit that I was guilty from time to time of making potentially homophobic comments simply for fear of not fitting in and having my secret revealed before I was ready. Sad but true, I think many a gay man would have to admit to something similar happening before he came out. I offer no excuses for such behavior in my past except to say that I did the best I could until I was able to do better. So, though I did feel some initial sense of betrayal when I heard some of the possibly insensitive comments coming from the mouth of a man who I thought I knew at least on some level, I have been able to put such comments into perspective and continue to have nothing but good feelings for the man I remember and who I enjoyed getting to know online. Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

So here's my first post. It seems that a lot of people are being judgmental of those being judgemental. Isn't that an oxymoron or something? There's a lot of labels being thrown around like hypocrite, homophobe, liar, domestic abuser, etc. The fact is these people chose to live their life in front of a TV camera and they are doing what we all do in daily life-judging. Life is nothing but a bunch of choices based on your judgement. For example, I think anyone who has a job as a p**n star is not someone I would want to date or have *** with no matter if its gay or straight p**n. For me, anyone who engages in pay for *** is not making good lifestyle choices and is not someone who I would probably have a lot in common with because it goes against my values and experiences. You all judge others based on your own values and experience***ample, you judge to not let your child be babysat by a person rumored to have abused his kids, you decide not to hire the plumber who was sued 5 years ago for poor work, you aren't religious so you don't spend Friday night with the neighbors next door at their weekly bible study, you don't give your money to financial advisor covicted of embezzeling 10 years ago, you drink alcohol socially so you don't hang out with the coworker who never drinks, you have lunch with your friend rather than the athletic jock who you just don't jive with, etc, etc. If Heather doesn't want to engage in a hetero***ual relationship with a man who has done gay internet **** for YEARS, why are you judging her for that? Why are you juging Nany and the others for being shocked and annoyed with Dusting being a gay p**n star after he made several anti-gay slurs/remarks? They all judged each other (Dustin even judged Heather for being uncomfortable with his past and his "omission" of the truth and told her she's not who he thought she was). These kids are all judging each other - good or bad- just like we all do in our daily lives. Many of you are judging that Adam was "much worse" than Dustin because he was involved in drugs and juvie. The fact is that if you liked Adam's personality and were on his side, you all would be claiming that he shouldn't be judged because it was in his past and he was trying to stay away from drugs and drug dealers. I just think we shouldn't complain about these kids being judgemental or homophobic when we are seeing an edited version of what happened as they deal with shocking information about a friend who had presented himself in a very different light. We all judge and decide who we want to bring into our circle of trust based on a person's personality, experiences, values, activities, etc. And its okay to disagree with a person's behavior (meaning Dustin's misrepresentation of himself, Adam's disruptiveness, Dustin's invovlement in the **** industry) and say "I don't agree with that." As long as you are respectful and still compassionate toward the person, you can disagree. Anyway, just my thoughts. tl;dr: Judging is a natural part of human life. When you judge someone for disagreeing or being uncomfortable with something (essentially judging), you are engaging in the same behavior that your are complaining about. Maybe if we all thought of it that way, we would be less angry and less likely to engage in the hurtful [U]behaviors [/U]such as name-calling (homophobe, ****, psychopath, etc) or worse.

[QUOTE=V1man;245612]Sometimes we take things (and others words) too seriously. He said it. I expect , however, that it was more intended to help align himself comfortably within the house rather than being an expression of his views toward gays. Hate is greatly overrated. Personally, I prefer apathy... like how I feel about Lady Gaga or chicken fried steak.[/QUOTE] I feel there is a problem with this. To me, it's even more of an outrage that someone would say, "oh he's just trying to fit in". Really? Threatening a hate crime to fit in? Society is so far beyond saving. It scares me. I understand the reasoning, but it makes me sad that some people feel like they have to behave this way.. and others just shrug their shoulders at it. Also, thank you Saille for your input. It definitely helps put things into perspective.

[QUOTE=Insider;245618]I feel there is a problem with this. To me, it's even more of an outrage that someone would say, "oh he's just trying to fit in". Really? Threatening a hate crime to fit in? Society is so far beyond saving. It scares me. I understand the reasoning, but it makes me sad that some people feel like they have to behave this way.. and others just shrug their shoulders at it. [/QUOTE] You and I are on the same page with this. There's never been anyone who has done something so terrible that there weren't some people who would claim the perpetrator is not bad, they're just "misunderstood". So I'm not surprised to see excusing and/or denial of Dustin's homophobic comments. Still, it's sad to see. The problem of homophobia in America is not the picket signs of the Westboro Baptist Church, it's the casual, nonchalant, bigoted comments that no one bats an eye about. They're the foundation for those who go beyond that and take it to the extreme and commit violence against gay people. It's the seed from which all the other hatred originates. For me, I don't want to associate not only with people who make homophobic comments, but also people who say they don't see the homophobia or just don't care.

[QUOTE=V1man;245572]Is it too much to [I]expect [/I]accuracy in the choice of words defining one's accusations in vevmo commentary? There is not a shred of evidence leading to a layman's conculsion that Mike is a psychopath. To wit: psychopath psy·cho·path (sī'kə-pāth') n. A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one [B] manifested in perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior. [/B] ( Stedman's Medical Dictionary ) [I][SIZE="1"]Of course any such expectation on my part is sheer folly...[/SIZE][/I][/QUOTE] Thank you for that dictionary breakdown. Now maybe you should look up the word "like" and understand what a simile is. Here. I'll help you. sim·i·le    /ˈsɪməli/ Show Spelled[sim-uh-lee] –noun 1. a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicitly compared, as in “she is like a rose.” Compare metaphor. 2. an instance of such a figure of speech or a use of words exemplifying it. Another one. A simile is a figure of speech that indirectly compares two different things by employing the words "like", "as", or "than".[1] Even though both similes and metaphors are forms of comparison, similes indirectly compare the two ideas and allow them to remain distinct in spite of their similarities, whereas metaphors compare two things directly. For instance, a simile that compares a person with a bullet would go as follows: "Chris was a record-setting runner as fast as a speeding bullet." A metaphor might read something like, "When Chris ran, he was a speeding bullet racing along the track." Now in that example, do you really believe that they're stating for a fact that Chris is a bullet?

Honestly, the edit gave Dustin a lot more sympathy than I feel he deserves. I mean c'mon he was literally living a double life & lied even after they found out about it. I have no sympathy for him, and I do not believe in that "gay for pay" bull. If one engages in homosexual activities than he is GAY. If someone is paid to commit crimes & steal, they aren't "pay for theft", they are a theif. Period. Point. Blank.

Like Dustin, I expected that some cast members would just giggle about him being in adult entertainment, and then say, "Who cares?" Sort of like Nany's first reactions. I had hoped the situation being on RW would bring better understanding and appreciation of those who work in the *** industry. It makes me mad that people are discriminated against and targeted for life for just getting busy in front of a camera for money. It's terrible to read about people getting fired or worse, committing suicide because of the persecution. I just don't see anything wrong with doing **** at all. Some young guys have used the money to pay their college tuition and I think it's a good way to earn some quick cash and maybe have a little fun at the same time. It's a legal type of work that some young people dip into for the adventure of it for a short period of time. I don't think they should be marked for life or forced to claim they made some horrible mistake. I appreciate Dustin saying he doesn't regret it and that he doesn't feel like he should, because there was nothing wrong with it.

[QUOTE=WhySoSerious;245624]Thank you for that dictionary breakdown. Now maybe you should look up the word "like" and understand what a simile is. Here. I'll help you. sim·i·le    /ˈsɪməli/ Show Spelled[sim-uh-lee] –noun 1. a figure of speech in which two unlike things are explicitly compared, as in “she is like a rose.” Compare metaphor. 2. an instance of such a figure of speech or a use of words exemplifying it. Another one. A simile is a figure of speech that indirectly compares two different things by employing the words "like", "as", or "than".[1] Even though both similes and metaphors are forms of comparison, similes indirectly compare the two ideas and allow them to remain distinct in spite of their similarities, whereas metaphors compare two things directly. For instance, a simile that compares a person with a bullet would go as follows: "Chris was a record-setting runner as fast as a speeding bullet." A metaphor might read something like, "When Chris ran, he was a speeding bullet racing along the track." Now in that example, do you really believe that they're stating for a fact that Chris is a bullet?[/QUOTE] Childish? Probably, but I laughed so thanks for that.

Dustin is a mes, insecure and still has a lot to learn about himself. I just want to point out that Heather's a hypocrite as well and she came off ignorant. I view her just like I view Dustin, they were meant to be together. She's making out with Nany next week, so does that make her a lesbian? Dustin's had *** with guys in the **** industry, does that make him gay? Do you guys see the double standard?

If one is looking for something to hate about someone, they are guaranteed to find it. The kid appears to have not only grown up with poor parental presence, but, in some ways, had to be his own parent (and I suspect a parent to his mom at times). Whether he is gay, straight, bi, or a lesbian trapped in a man's body, I have to say there are some admirable things about him. He has aspired to be more than he was or what he was likely destined to be if he hadn't done it, and he continues on that journey. That he doesn't see his past as a mistake, to me, is actually a pretty mature attitude, but I am someone who would gladly tell you about all the mistakes I have made and how I don't let them define me or keep me from pressing forward.

[QUOTE=SeanDaniel;245631]If one is looking for something to hate about someone, they are guaranteed to find it. The kid appears to have not only grown up with poor parental presence, but, in some ways, had to be his own parent (and I suspect a parent to his mom at times). Whether he is gay, straight, bi, or a lesbian trapped in a man's body, I have to say there are some admirable things about him. He has aspired to be more than he was or what he was likely destined to be if he hadn't done it, and he continues on that journey. That he doesn't see his past as a mistake, to me, is actually a pretty mature attitude, but I am someone who would gladly tell you about all the mistakes I have made and how I don't let them define me or keep me from pressing forward.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I loved when he told Heather that working for FratPad wasn't a mistake... I was rooting for him. Calling it a mistake would be a copout/taking the easy way out.

[QUOTE=TheKorean;245625]Honestly, the edit gave Dustin a lot more sympathy than I feel he deserves. I mean c'mon he was literally living a double life & lied even after they found out about it. I have no sympathy for him, and I do not believe in that "gay for pay" bull. If one engages in homosexual activities than he is GAY. If someone is paid to commit crimes & steal, they aren't "pay for theft", they are a theif. Period. Point. Blank.[/QUOTE] So if college co-eds kiss or fondle each other they are lesbians...even if they are just experimenting and decide they prefer men? Or better yet even if they are doing it to try to get attention from guys...which happens a lot!

[QUOTE=rallen;245643]so if college co-eds kiss or fondle each other they are lesbians...even if they are just experimenting and decide they prefer men? or better yet even if they are doing it to try to get attention from guys...which happens alot![/QUOTE] Gay? Possibly Bisexual/Bicurious? Yes Straight? No

[QUOTE=101flyboy;245462]This show made me so extremely uncomfortable. I have a few points to make: 1) Heather is a [B]HYPOCRITE[/B]. Heather is openly "***ually open". She has been with other girls. She admits to being attracted to girls. There are some rumors suggesting she is DATING a girl currently. All of that, and she says it's "wrong" for a man to have *** with another man. Heather is anti-gay, and I see that a lot with people in general. It's OK for 2 girls to be together, but it's not OK for two guys to be together. If a girl kisses another girl, she's not automatically a lesbian, but you're gay if you even so much as show simple affection towards another guy. 2) Heather [B]NEVER ADDRESSED[/B] her attitude on why she would not date a bi***ual/bi-curious man. She only said "that's not a situation I want to get into." Also, her bringing up STDs, came off homophobic to me. Her saying "well, being a garbage man isn't something people consider disgusting" was homophobic. Her whole mentality comes off as male homo***uality=dirty. And that you're tainted if you have *** with a man as a man. I wrote on her facebook page to address these comments and what exactly she means. She says her views have evolved so........maybe so, maybe not. 3) Dustin is [B]NOT STRAIGHT. [/B]Dustin's facebook page, which I believe is no longer up or has been changed, listed [B]GENTLEMEN[/B] under interests/searching for. Dustin has been seen at events for Frat Pad since Real World, and supposedly, Dustin didn't need any "enhancement" to "perform" for the site. Also, he keeps dodging the fact he DID have *** with men. He said he only got oral for 30 seconds as a still shot. We all know that's a lie. He bottomed and gave oral. His history is out, and his homophobia and his denial are clear defense mechanisms. The fact he can't get over the situation is clear insecurity. Dustin is a kid in turmoil who has clearly been taken advantage of, warped mentally and spiritually, and is a lost soul. He really needs help, and he can't get it until he's away from the toxic society for gays in Southern Louisiana. 4) Mike is not homophobic, but he is a drama queen, and he lacks self-awareness. He has no idea how to behave in particular situations. He made it all about him when the situation was not to do with him whatsoever. I don't think the castmates outside of Heather and Leroy are homophobes. Nany I definitely don't think is homophobic. Leroy was mature in his response and seemed like he had a change of heart in that moment, and realized how damaging homophobia and judgment is. I think the castmates reacted out of surprise and shock rather than hatred. Also, Dustin's homophobia and going out of his way to profess his hetero***uality made it an even more uncomfortable situation. People reject what they don't understand or makes them uncomfortable. In a rational minded situation, I think the majority of cast mates would not be so callous as they came off tonight. None of them had the right to know about Dustin's *** life, outside of Heather, so the fact they made it their business is ridiculous. But that leads to my final point......... 5) What Dustin said was [B]100% ACCURATE. [/B]The cast mates were so shocked, alarmed and unstable, solely because Dustin was on a gay **** site? They laughed off Adam's behavior until it became too egregious to do so. With Dustin, it was immediate shock and horror. That should show us all the true repressive nature of America when it comes to *** and gender in general. That a guy doing **** is more shocking than a guy being in juvy and using guns. As Heather put it in the live show, homo***uality isn't "normal" in the eyes of many, murder is, drugs are, etc. People become numb to murder and drugs. Homo***uality elicit***treme responses on all sides of the aisle because it's so much more of an "in your face" issue, and since it's such a deep cultural, moral and mental issue.[/QUOTE] Question: where did you get the info on your frist point? i'm just wondering and is there any truth to this?

I didn't have a problem with the way anyone reacted...except for Naomi and Nany. A previous poster mentioned that it would have been a joke if he were simply a **** star and that's the way that they acted at first. It became serious when Heather was legitimately hurt. Which is it though? Is it a joke or serious? I know that they didn't know ALL the details, but the way that those two reacted just irked me.

What I DO find funny is the same people who say Dustin didn't owe Heather the info on his past because it wasn't that long of a relationship are the same people condemning Heather for not blindly sticking by the dude like it's her husband. Chick is 22 and i'm sorry a month and I find out my chick's selling her body for cash, I'm not too likely to stick around. I respect Heather's attempt to be there for him despite everyone else all of a sudden rising on a pedestal. I think Heather is genuinely upset and everyone else is being ridiculous. Heather clearly is trying to be somewhat supportive because she knows everyone else isn't there for him but its a shame it's all left on her, the person who is most affected by it all and deserves a few days to step away and gather her thoughts. As for that garbage man comment Heather made, she didn't say being a garbage man isn't disgusting, what you did is. Dustin was saying Leroy's job doesn't define him Heather stated, if I remember correctly, it doesn't but he doesn't walk around saying being a garbage man is gross and he would never do it, referring to that Dustin walked around saying "gay acts" were gross and he wouldn't participate in them but then his job was gay ****. I'm sorry that went over your simple minded head. It's a shame that people will take ANYTHING and twist and turn it until it sounds homophobic. It's like the ******* Salem witch trials. It's getting so annoying, I'm about to stop watching this show. I love how Dustin lying and the fact that he sold his body for money is completely being disregarded and its like OMG GAY **** + Heather being mad = homophobic! DUH! Clearly someone who is homophobic does not openly admit she's attracted to girls. Hypocritical, yes. Double standard, yes. Homophobic, no. So go somewhere with your bull****.

[QUOTE=icubaby;245659]what i DO find funny is the same people who say dustin didnt owe heather the info on his past because it wasn't that long of a relationship are the same people condemning heather for not blindly sticking by the dude like its her husband. chick is 22 and im sorry a month in I find out my chicks selling her body for cash im not too likely to stick around. i respect heathers attempt to be there for him despite everyone else all of a sudden rising on a pedestal. i think heather is genuinely upset and everyone else is being ridiculous. heather clearly is trying to be somewhat supportive because she knows everyone else isnt there for him but its a shame its all left on her, the person who is most affected by it all and deserves a few days to step away and gather her thoughts. as for that garbage man comment heather made she didn't say being a garbage man isnt descusting what [B]you[/B] did is. dustin was saying leroy's job doesnt define him heather stated, if i remember correctly, it doesnt but he doesnt walk around saying being a garbage man is gross and he would never do it referring to that dustin walked around saying "gay acts" were gross and he wouldnt particpate in them but then his job was gay ****. im sorry that went over [B]your [/B]simple minded head. its a shame that people will take anything ANYTHING and twist and turn it until it sounds homophobic. its like the ******* salem witch trials. its getting so annoying im about to stop watching this show. i love how dustin lying and the fact that he sold his body for money is completely being disregarded and its like OMG GAY **** + heather being mad = homophobic! DUH! clearly someone who is homophobic does not openly admit shes attracted to girls. hypocritical yes. double standard yes. homophobic no. so go somewhere with[B] your[/B] bull****.[/QUOTE] I'm a mite drunk, so excuse my bluntness... But who the **** are you talking to? With respect to what you seem to be saying, it's not so much about people accusing Heather of being homophobic. More to the point, it is about how the audience reacted. Would the backlash have been as bad if he was doing straight **** as opposed to gay ****? If not, what does that say about the general population? These are the larger questions that arise from such a situation.

[QUOTE=Mind Riot;245660]I'm a mite drunk, so excuse my bluntness... But who the **** are you talking to? With respect to what you seem to be saying, it's not so much about people accusing Heather of being homophobic. More to the point, it is about how the audience reacted. Would the backlash have been as bad if he was doing straight **** as opposed to gay ****? If not, what does that say about the general population? These are the larger questions that arise from such a situation.[/QUOTE] So how's your head this morning? Frankly, I could care less how the audience reacts. I lost general respect for the MTV audience years ago after attending my third or fourth show taping at 1515 Broadway in NYC. I have no interest in participating in lemming mind control.

[QUOTE=TheKorean;245625]Honestly, the edit gave Dustin a lot more sympathy than I feel he deserves. I mean c'mon he was literally living a double life & lied even after they found out about it. I have no sympathy for him, and I do not believe in that "gay for pay" bull. If one engages in homosexual activities than he is GAY. If someone is paid to commit crimes & steal, they aren't "pay for theft", they are a [B]theif[/B]. Period. Point. Blank.[/QUOTE] Actually, they would be a thief. .._ _

My opinion of Heather dropped a little. This, "I don't have a problem with gay/bi men" but she's so repulsed at the idea of two men screwing. She doesn't have to get off on it but chill out. And it's a bit hypocritical she's making out with another girl.

If you look at the daily she just posted on her Twitter, it looks like she was more upset with being lied to and the concept of ****- like I said- not anything at all doing with a guy! Looks like she realized maybe her prior ******** statements were a little premature. She looks like she's trying to reach out to him and express her feelings and he's just being a defensive ******* who's only concerned with himself and tried to make her seem like the bad guy!!! Sick. I feel bad for her and hope she's not stupid enough to buy into it. [URL="http://www.realworlddailies.com/Video/Ex-Lovers-Spat/092ECFFFF00A1312F001B013FE0C8"]Real World Dailies | Video | Ex Lovers Spat[/URL]

On the dailies, it seems like Heather is just bird-dogging Dustin, trying to convince him to think the way she thinks. My opinion of Mike dropped big time since the aftershow. It is crazy for him to sit there and say he was only offended at Dustin for his gay friends. Mike wasn't denouncing homophobia when those comments were originally being made and some of the dailies have him participating right along side Dustin in some of those conversations. I also haven't seen Mike criticize ANY other castmate for their homophobic comments. That is just his spin trying to intellectualize his hatred for Zito.

[QUOTE]That is just his spin trying to intellectualize his hatred for Zito.[/QUOTE] Bingo.

[QUOTE=TheKorean;245625]Honestly, the edit gave Dustin a lot more sympathy than I feel he deserves. I mean c'mon he was literally living a double life & lied even after they found out about it. I have no sympathy for him, and I do not believe in that "gay for pay" bull. [B]If one engages in homosexual activities than he is GAY. [/B] If someone is paid to commit crimes & steal, they aren't "pay for theft", they are a theif. Period. Point. Blank.[/QUOTE] I thought this as well, but I was wrong. If you listen to Dustin you can tell it was all about the money for him. You would be surprised what a lost little boy (Dustin) would do for structure and money.

[QUOTE=Mind Riot;245660]I'm a mite drunk[/QUOTE] When you sober up, please take care of that arthropod infestation. While normally I don't condone the consumption of mites, in this case it would be past tense, so I can only hope the best for your recovery.

[QUOTE=RMD1;245689]I thought this as well, but I was wrong. If you listen to Dustin you can tell it was all about the money for him. You would be surprised what a lost little boy (Dustin) would do for structure and money.[/QUOTE] I agree execpt I think it was more structure and acceptance. I am guessing he never really felt accepted since it has been reported, and I think in an interview too, that he used to strive to blend in and worked hard in private to be able to afford the clothes that wouldn't make him stand out as poor.

[QUOTE=V1man;245661]So how's your head this morning? Frankly, I could care less how the audience reacts. I lost general respect for the MTV audience years ago after attending my third or fourth show taping at 1515 Broadway in NYC. I have no interest in participating in lemming mind control.[/QUOTE] This morning was not particularly awesome. But by the grace of God, and hangover medication in the form of a large bottle of Gatorade, I think I will make it through the rest of the day. Lemming mind control, eh? That's rather discouraging considering how much credit I like to give an audience. [QUOTE=Bacchus;245690]When you sober up, please take care of that arthropod infestation. While normally I don't condone the consumption of mites, in this case it would be past tense, so I can only hope the best for your recovery.[/QUOTE] Haha, I was using mite as an adverb to convey to what extent I was drunk. Totally proper word usage, Sir :D

All this talk about gay4pay and I must say I think its possible. I don't think if one is involved in gay acts or sells their body for money they are gay. But Dustin still kept secrets, told lies even after outed, did things, and said things that were awfully suspicious. So I believe he could be gay, but had this been anyone else and if they had act more mature, told the truth and never contradicted themselves I would def. think they are straight even though they were involved in gay acts.

[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;245701]All this talk about gay4pay and I must say I think its possible. I don't think if one is involved in gay acts or sells their body for money they are gay. But Dustin still kept secrets, told lies even after outed, did things, and said things that were awfully suspicious. So I believe he could be gay, but had this been anyone else and if they had act more mature, told the truth and never contradicted themselves I would def. think they are straight even though they were involved in gay acts.[/QUOTE] He has to at least be bi considering that truth or dare episode where he was extremely ****** off that Heather kissed someone else. I doubt he'd come up with an act like that if he didn't actually care for her.