[QUOTE=molds13;245544]Yes, but you said there is no difference between what Dustin did and what 99.9% of males have done. None of the other roommates have done gay ****, or gotten paid thousands of dollars for any sexual acts (that we know of) which is what SPENCERlife was trying to say (I think).[/QUOTE]
How many of those guys have watched ****? Dustin is the bad guy for filming it? The fact that it's gay shouldn't matter. If it does, there's an issue.
I believe firmly that this is a classic case of pot and kettle.
Should someone who smokes weed suggest that the person who grows/sells it is a bad guy? What if they don't pay for it.. they just get it from friends? *gasp* what if it's [I]gay[/I] weed?
[QUOTE=Insider;245542]Right. You think Heather has never had a **** in her mouth? I'm not trying to be crude.. I'm merely phrasing it that way so you can understand how hypocritical it is to think his work is "disgusting" or whatever. How many of those housemates have watched ****? I think this whole issue is blown way out of perportion.[/QUOTE]
We disagree. I'm with Heather's mother and molds13 on this (and would love to hear "Colie's Mom's" perspective). What else whispersed to Heather in the middle of the night was a "lie?" In my own experience, I've come to believe that most women enter "meaningful and continuing" sexual relationships with an implicit expectation of trust. There is not a shred of evidence that Heather's interest in Dustin was not fully monogamous. To suddenly discover that what she may have seen as an foundation of her emotional and physical relationship with Dustin was build on quicksand of his choosing must have been a serious kick the the gut for her.
I don't write him off as a human being. Far from it. I think he is entirely likable, and probably lots of fun to be around. If he gets his head on straight from all of this, he'll be a better person and move on to making other life-lesson mistakes. We all do.
This season has brought many discussions and I think its a good thing that we are having these discussions because it not then nobobdy would bring them up. On the one hand, I feel that people shoudl respect Dustin privacy and what he did in the past is in the past. He is not the same person that he was back then. Lets try to play out what would happen if he told the cast about his past in the beginning? Everybody there as well as the world would have judged him differently. He probably wouldn't be able to date Heather, that is for sure. Sometimes people are embarrassed of their past, it is not that they want to lie to you, it is rather they do not feel ready to disclose such personal information. I think it is important that we rather concentrate on what Dustin does now and not what he did in the past. Because no one can understand the mind set that he was in back then, and say what they would do.
However, Dustin did do the right thing by talking to his roomates about the situation, he allowed them to ask questions and such. In my eyes that should put an end to the situation right there. But of course it won't. The only thing I am happy about is that Adam is not around during this, because he would do something really stupid, and then people would be comparing what dustin did to what adam did. And if I am not mistaken what Adam did is a lot worse than what Dustin did, in my opinon.
[QUOTE=V1man;245549]We disagree. I'm with Heather's mother and molds13 on this (and would love to hear "Colie's Mom's" perspective). What else whispersed to Heather in the middle of the night was a "lie?" In my own experience, I've come to believe that most women enter "meaningful and continuing" sexual relationships with an implicit expectation of trust. There is not a shred of evidence that Heather's interest in Dustin was not fully monogamous. To suddenly discover that what she may have seen as an foundation of her emotional and physical relationship with Dustin was build on quicksand of his choosing must have been a serious kick the the gut for her.
I don't write him off as a human being. Far from it. I think he is entirely likable, and probably lots of fun to be around. If he gets his head on straight from all of this, he'll be a better person and move on to making other life-lesson mistakes. We all do.[/QUOTE]
But the videos were made more than 5 years ago. Isn't there a statue of limitations in your personal life?
If Dustin had laughed off the revelation as something silly he had done a long time ago as opposed to being panicked by it, do you think the cast members would have responded differently?
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245552]But the videos were made more than 5 years ago. Isn't there a statue of limitations in your personal life?
If Dustin had laughed off the revelation as something silly he had done a long time ago as opposed to being panicked by it, do you think the cast members would have responded differently?[/QUOTE]
No, and possibly, but probably not. They might even be more freaked out that he was laughing about it.
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245552]But the videos were made more than 5 years ago. Isn't there a statue of limitations in your personal life?
If Dustin had laughed off the revelation as something silly he had done a long time ago as opposed to being panicked by it, do you think the cast members would have responded differently?[/QUOTE]
I think the better question is if he had acted consistently with his beliefs instead of being so incredibly insecure about himself and projecting that self hatred on an associated group of people, would he come off as still likable by his roommates?
With all due respect my dear V1man.. I think that Heather shouldn't be on The Real World having sexual relationships in front of cameras if she wanted a sound relationship. How many healthy relationships have been formed and maintained on this show? It cant be many. While I feel bad for Heather if she was hurt by the way this all worked out.. I have to say I'm not surprised at all that someone on a reality show turned out to be something other than what he portrayed himself to be. Maybe I'm just too jaded and untrusting. I do have many years on her.
[QUOTE=cystic;245555]I think the better question is if he had acted consistently with his beliefs instead of being so incredibly insecure about himself and projecting that self hatred on an associated group of people, would he come off as still likable by his roommates?[/QUOTE]
I'm concerned that the "gay bashing" was acceptable before the huge **** debacle. Hatred shouldn't be accepted period.
I liked Mike and Leroy a lot before this episode but now not so much. The whole casts treatment towards Dustin was ridiculous. Dustin obviously had a situation he felt uncomfortable with.
Though did Dustin actually lie to them? If I remember yesterdays episode they called him a liar but he didn't really lie. He just didn't tell them anything about his past. Keeping a "dark secret" = lying now?Then again I barely remember yesterdays episode. It's not like Dustin shot some one.... ;)
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Allow me...(click to see larger)
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[QUOTE=TDMEL52;245550]This season has brought many discussions and I think its a good thing that we are having these discussions because it not then nobobdy would bring them up. On the one hand, I feel that people shoudl respect Dustin privacy and what he did in the past is in the past. He is not the same person that he was back then. Lets try to play out what would happen if he told the cast about his past in the beginning? Everybody there as well as the world would have judged him differently. He probably wouldn't be able to date Heather, that is for sure. Sometimes people are embarrassed of their past, it is not that they want to lie to you, it is rather they do not feel ready to disclose such personal information. I think it is important that we rather concentrate on what Dustin does now and not what he did in the past. Because no one can understand the mind set that he was in back then, and say what they would do.
However, Dustin did do the right thing by talking to his roomates about the situation, he allowed them to ask questions and such. In my eyes that should put an end to the situation right there. But of course it won't. The only thing I am happy about is that Adam is not around during this, because he would do something really stupid, and then people would be comparing what dustin did to what adam did. And if I am not mistaken what Adam did is a lot worse than what Dustin did, in my opinon.[/QUOTE]
I disagree that the past is the past when reports are he specifically used that to get on the show with the intent of disclosing it and discussed it in his first confessional in the house so he never really expected privacy on all that. To me the realest statement said last night was when Dustin was talking about him being judged more harshly than Adam the drug dealer convict who was part of someone getting shot.
I do believe that this season has stirred up a lot of emotions and I absolutely fault MTV for not taking the opportunity to do some constructive educational and informational programming around it. I guess where I might differ from most is that I see Dustin getting it from all sides, and I fail to see that any side has a moral high ground this far into the mudslinging.
I hope Dustin reads the letter on camera or at least tells the other roommates that Mike wrote him a letter like that.
Mike is coming off like a psychopath who is fanatical about Dustin. He probably had a journal under his bed where he'd write "Die, Dustin. Die, Dustin" over and over again. (Just a joke yet believable)
I really don't get why he's bothered with EVERYTHING Dustin says and does. Mike doesn't criticize or judge any of the other roommates. To me, Dustin is the kind of person who doesn't like to fight/argue and just wants to be friends with everyone. Mike on the other hand is the type to hold grudges, push people out of his life, gossip about people, and try to make them feel bad. And in Dustin he sees someone who he can pick on and not face any repercussions for it.
[QUOTE=SeanDaniel;245562]I disagree that the past is the past when reports are he specifically used that to get on the show with the intent of disclosing it and discussed it in his first confessional in the house so he never really expected privacy on all that. To me the realest statement said last night was when Dustin was talking about him being judged more harshly than Adam the drug dealer convict who was part of someone getting shot.
I do believe that this season has stirred up a lot of emotions and I absolutely fault MTV for not taking the opportunity to do some constructive educational and informational programming around it. I guess where I might differ from most is that I see Dustin getting it from all sides, and I fail to see that any side has a moral high ground this far into the mudslinging.[/QUOTE]
I know, trash your housemate's apartment, commit domestic violence, help put a hit on somebody, do drugs and go to juvie = A-OK
Someone said earlier that Heather actually said this was acceptable behavior. Really?
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245564]I know, trash your housemate's apartment, commit domestic violence, help put a hit on somebody, do drugs and go to juvie = A-OK
Someone said earlier that Heather actually said this was acceptable behavior. [B]Really?[/B][/QUOTE]
I cannot recall her exact or proximate words but the point she was making I think was that this type of behavior is more commonplace so people don't get as excited about it when they hear of it the way they do with Dustin's.
[QUOTE=molds13;245561]
Allow me...(click to see larger)
[/QUOTE]
That was one thing that I wasn't sure if I was seeing right. Mike said it was a long letter, which it is not and it was already torn up when he gave it to him. I am not sure I would have bothered much with it either.
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245564]I know, trash your housemate's apartment, commit domestic violence, help put a hit on somebody, do drugs and go to juvie = A-OK
Someone said earlier that Heather actually said this was acceptable behavior. Really?[/QUOTE]
Domestic violence? I missed that news. Did he hit an ex-girlfriend or something?
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245552]But the videos were made more than 5 years ago. Isn't there a statue of limitations in your personal life?
If Dustin had laughed off the revelation as something silly he had done a long time ago as opposed to being panicked by it, do you think the cast members would have responded differently?[/QUOTE]
1. statute of limitations? : First, tell me the half-life of a possible STD as it relates to any woman's determination of 'trust' in a relationship. (e.g.: Heather: Do I need to get tested?)
2. cast responding differently?: Sorry, I don't do hypotheticals. There are too many unknown variables. BMNP would have made it all into something no matter what, though. It is the nature of the reality beast. Andy Denhart is not so constrained and does comment in is brief article today at [url=http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/the_real_world_25/2011_Apr_28_gay_***_exposed]Dustin Zito explains why he lied about gay ***, Fratpad explains why images disappeared.[/url]
[QUOTE=WhySoSerious;245568]Domestic violence? I missed that news. Did he hit an ex-girlfriend or something?[/QUOTE]
Well, I should temper that a bit. During Adam's night of rampage, he came within inches of knocking Nany out with his fist but instead hit a wall.
[QUOTE=WhySoSerious;245563]I hope Dustin reads the letter on camera or at least tells the other roommates that Mike wrote him a letter like that.
Mike is coming off like a [B]psychopath[/B] who is fanatical about Dustin. He probably had a journal under his bed where he'd write "Die, Dustin. Die, Dustin" over and over again. (Just a joke yet believable)
I really don't get why he's bothered with EVERYTHING Dustin says and does. Mike doesn't criticize or judge any of the other roommates. To me, Dustin is the kind of person who doesn't like to fight/argue and just wants to be friends with everyone. Mike on the other hand is the type to hold grudges, push people out of his life, gossip about people, and try to make them feel bad. And in Dustin he sees someone who he can pick on and not face any repercussions for it.[/QUOTE]
Is it too much to [I]expect [/I]accuracy in the choice of words defining one's accusations in vevmo commentary?
There is not a shred of evidence leading to a layman's conculsion that Mike is a psychopath.
To wit:
psychopath psy·cho·path (sī'kə-pāth') n.
A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one [B] manifested in perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior. [/B]
( Stedman's Medical Dictionary )
[I][SIZE="1"]Of course any such expectation on my part is sheer folly...[/SIZE][/I]
[QUOTE=snarkaholic;245571]Well, I should temper that a bit. During Adam's night of rampage, he came within inches of knocking Nany out with his fist but instead hit a wall.[/QUOTE]
I am not attacking Adam here or taking a position on that argument, but just wanted to point out that domestic violence can be a lot more than just physical violence.
[QUOTE=SeanDaniel;245573]I am not attacking Adam here or taking a position on that argument, but just wanted to point out that domestic violence can be a lot more than just physical violence.[/QUOTE]
This from the Nevada Domestic Violence Resource Manual for Law Enforcement, Prosecutors, The Judiciary, Attorneys and Advocates:
[QUOTE]"[FONT="Times New Roman"]Domestic violence has evolved from a private, family matter, cloaked in secrecy and
shame, to the recognition of domestic violence as a crime involving the use of power,
coercion and violence to control another. To that end, domestic violence crimes are
treated in the same manner as more random crimes against persons. However, domestic
violence is different from such crimes because a perpetrator and victim are, by definition,
never strangers, but rather partners in an intimate relationship, family members, or parents
of common children. Thus, the victim is bound to the perpetrator in ways not commonly
seen in traditional crimes against a person – the victim may rely on the perpetrator for
economic support or child support, as the co-parent of their children or as a parent. It is
the relationship between the victim and perpetrator, and all of the things that relationship
implies, that may make the investigation and prosecution of domestic violence of increased
importance, albeit more complex and difficult.
Thus, domestic violence generally is defined as a violent crime committed in the context of
an intimate relationship.1 Ongoing domestic violence is characterized by a pattern of
escalating abuse in which one partner in the relationship controls the other through force,
deprivation and/or the threat of deprivation or violence. The Power and Control Wheel
reproduced below depicts the forms of control exerted by the perpetrator over the victim.2
The Equality Wheel following the Power and Control Wheel depicts a healthy intimate
relationship.3[/FONT]"
[SIZE="1"]1. LINDA A.MCGUIRE, PROSECUTION OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN IOWA: A PROSECUTION MANUAL §3-15 (3rd ed. 1998).
2 . Reproduced with permission of the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project, 202 E. Superior Street, Duluth, MN 55802 (218)722-2781.
3. Id[/SIZE].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Insider;245558]I'm concerned that the "gay bashing" was acceptable before the huge **** debacle. Hatred shouldn't be accepted period.[/QUOTE]
That is true, but one must discern between hatred and indignation. The episode is put into poor context, but as V suggested, there is much more to the story we don't see.
[QUOTE=cystic;245576]That is true, but one must discern between hatred and indignation. The episode is put into poor context, but as V suggested, there is much more to the story we don't see.[/QUOTE]
This is where we are getting into murky territory for me. I do not consider expressing a negative opinion toward homosexuals as "gay bashing" so much as just garden-variety prejudice. To me, bashing would imply something more than along the lines of at, the very least, expressing those opinion in such a way as to harass or intimidate another. That they expressed those opinions knowing they could be aired really wouldn't give rise to that for me just because these are neophyte TV personalities having a conversation, and I don't see any intent there. Not defending those opinions, just struggling with the terminology.
What's really sad about the whole thing is that Dustin is being taken advantage of and seems to be in need of some therapy IMO. Whether he is being pimped out by the website in question or being manipulated by Bunim/Murray and MTV he is also a victim here. I agree wholeheartedly with those who have posted that with all of the issues going on in his home life he was probably vulnerable to being put in this position by this website owner. He seems to be in denial and confused on a number of topics.
I feel that Heather had every right to be upset to get this information after she had gotten intimate with Dustin. Whether or not he is straight, gay or bi he should have disclosed his previous experience when his actions could have put Heather is a predicament healthwise. He knew that if he had kept it real with her from the get go they probably wouldn't have gotten together and if he really cared about her he should have manned up and not just told her point blank when she asked him the first time around.
What's sad is that MTV is playing fast and loose with these kids, whether it be the kids on the Real World or the Challenges. As long as the ratings are good and the ad revenue comes in they will totally take advantage of it.
[QUOTE=Insider;245470]Personally, I don't want to point fingers and cry HOMOPHOBE! but I definitely agree with the majority of what you are saying. I think there are some serious double standards at work here. Promiscuity is promiscuity.. whether it is straight/bi/gay or otherwise. There are few people in the history of this show who should be throwing stones at this person. If Heather were a girl who had been with limited people, and had a problem with Dustin's larger number, that would make sense. This really does not.
And to be perfectly honest, I'm surprised we haven't seen a ******** on this show before now.[/QUOTE]
i agree wholeheartedly and as for the last statement, there have been several...they just turned into them after :girl_smile:
I just re-watched last night's episode and honestly, the way everyone treated Dustin just makes me physically ill. I have lost respect for every single one of them and I think that they are all spineless and disgusting and cruel. Dustin did not lie to anybody. So he didn't walk into the house on day 1 and announce "I did gay **** 5 years ago when my life was in chaos." So what??? He knew those people for maybe a month and he didn't owe them anything....and he certainly did not lie.
I don't condone his past, but I don't judge it either and I can see how a person in a tragic past like his could get involved into a decision like that. But whatever, he did not commit a crime, he didn't hurt anyone, so why treat him like he is a leper??
& honestly, I would feel 100% more safe living with Dustin than living with Adam. Adam has a seedy past of drugs, violence, and crime. He almost punched Nany's face in and destroyed their house multiple times without remorse and they are concerned and so judgmental toward what Dustin did 5 years ago-really?????
& here is Dustin-feeling so humiliated and scared about revealing this secret and they gang up on him and offer zero support. They should all be so disgusted and embarrassed for how they treated their so-called friend.
& Mike is just a pathetic idiot who needs to get over himself.
The only one I had respect for in that episode was Dustin. He handled himself with integrity and dignity. & he handled those pieces of $h!+ roommates like a man. & he had nothing to apologize for (maybe to Heather, but that's all)
& did I see that next week's episode shows Heather and Nany making out? Um, hello-hippocrites?? I wonder how much MONEY the two girls got PAID for that episode??? & the nerve that they call themselves straight girls~they lied. Think everyone will gang up on them and make them feel like pieces of dirt? Think Mike will suggest they move out?? Doubtful :(
I hope the other cast members watched that episode and felt so ashamed of their behavior.
For the benefit of all those who have said "he did this 5 years ago" I submit that just over a year ago he was still in the Fratpad and as late as march of 2010 he was regularly seen fondling other mens erect ******* in the shower, or bathtub. This is as far as the sexual contact ever got in the daily fratpad shows and did not take place between every fratman. Some did their whole time at the pad without ever touching the skin of another man and others (the ones who stayed longer and returned more frequently) took things farther of their own accord. Spencer was known as the fratman most willing to push the envelope both in his contact with the other fratmen and in experimenting with his own body.
Also and on a slightly different topic, I feel I have to disclose something to you all. I am, and have always identified as, a gay male. However, I have to admit that I once touched a womans breasts. But it was in college and I was experimenting so it didn't really mean anything.
[QUOTE=cystic;245576]That is true, but one must discern between hatred and indignation. The episode is put into poor context, but as V suggested, there is much more to the story we don't see.[/QUOTE]
I agree. When I say "hatred" I am referring to the punching a gay man in the face comment. If he really said that (I haven't seen all the episodes), I'd say that's pretty hateful. It makes me sad to think that so many people in this world are so full of hate for no reason. :(
[QUOTE=Insider;245610]I agree. When I say "hatred" I am referring to the punching a gay man in the face comment. If he really said that (I haven't seen all the episodes), I'd say that's pretty hateful. It makes me sad to think that so many people in this world are so full of hate for no reason. :([/QUOTE]
Sometimes we take things (and others words) too seriously. He said it. I expect , however, that it was more intended to help align himself comfortably within the house rather than being an expression of his views toward gays.
Hate is greatly overrated. Personally, I prefer apathy... like how I feel about Lady Gaga or chicken fried steak.
Bottoline for me from this episode: It's very telling that people react stronger if someone did **** in the past than when somebody committed a pretty serious crime. Pretty similar to the fact that people have no problems with letting their 12-year olds watch horror movies, but *** scenes? No way.
I can only say that I would rather date someone who did **** than someone who has been violent repeatedly.
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