[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;134368]This just makes me respect her game even more. She doesn't have her "little crew" there, but she's still in the game. I really never thought she would have lasted this long. If the older vets had calmed down (Katie, Tonya and later on Darrell) and actually thought the game out, they would have been running it and not the usual people.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad that things turned out the way they did because I loved to see that the Champions plan got screwed up but let's be honest here. Veronica's game did very little for her, she simply lucked out that there are a bunch of idiots in that team lol. The only part that I attribute to her "game" is how the whole fooling around with Evan probably got him to let her choose who she wanted to go against which resulted in his vote counting as Veronica vs Kim and thefore causing the tie. Once the whole team was called in, it was their stupidity what saved her *** from going in lol.
[QUOTE=RW561015;134333]Wow, just saw the preview. Really, after what happened with Tonya, they should have just cut the pranks out. And bothering people while they are sleeping - well, he could have learned from the Susie/Colie/Cara situation on I3.
I also agree that Derrick overreacted, but I think he had every right to be upset and annoyed.
I don't know why Johnny is acting like he had nothing to do with it. Derrick obviously saw him right there. The only thing Johnny can argue is that he was not the only person involved in the prank.
I am surprised that Johnny's allies seem to be starting to turn against him, though. Odd.[/QUOTE]
I just saw the preview. I didn't see anyone actually hit anyone so I guess that's why noone was sent home. They just looked like they were "wrestling".
In the sneak peek, I like that Derrick really cares for his little section with his family's picture. I think that's awesome.
Also for whoever said that Johnny had a good argument that he wasn't the only one, the only other person shown helping Johnny was Kim. I don't think Derrick would tackle Kim like he did Johnny.
[QUOTE=producer88;134339]I'm still trying to understand why make a Veronica vs Kelly-Ann face off, instead of picking the weakest link out, Ibis or Johanna.[/QUOTE]
Because Kelly Ann is the strongest girl from the Challengers team and the Champion girls are scared of going against her. They're basically picking the girl they're the least fond off to see if she gets lucky and takes KA out so they don't have to go against her.
[QUOTE=Unicorn;134359]Veronica is no longer in the same in crowd she was. People are hating on Johanna and the champion guys but the fact is they forget that Veronica was much worse! She was constantly pulling the strings and screwing people over and being mean because she had her little crew around her helping her get through and stay out of the face offs. Now she feels how all the people she outcast and were mean to in past challenges feel. Karma.
[/QUOTE]
I was thinking that now she knows how Katie felt on The Inferno, too. I thought it was pretty mean, what she and the RR team did to Katie. I didn't like it and was really upset at them for it. Felt so badly for Katie. But the one thing you could say in that case was that Katie was a clear weak link. Veronica was not a clear weak link on The Ruins. Still don't agree with how things were handled on The Inferno, but I think they had more of a "legitimate" reason to not want Katie on the team than the people on the Champions team do with Veronica.
As I said, I thought Veronica and co were low on The Inferno, and I got nearly as upset at them as I did with the crew on G3, but I felt the people were a lot more awful on G3 (if we are just talking about challenge behavior). Throwing missions to get rid of decent competitors and leaving weak ones, making it an against the women issue, treating a sick person horribly - to me that was worse. But me thinking that still does not excuse Veronica's past.
Derrick sort of loses any credibility when he says Johnny should have done it to someone else. Did Derrick not go to college? You get pranks pulled when you pass out. I can see why he first re-acted by tackling Johnny, but the fact that he seemed ****** for so long seems kinda over exagerated.
[QUOTE=morris614;134379]Derrick sort of loses any credibility when he says Johnny should have done it to someone else. Did Derrick not go to college? You get pranks pulled when you pass out. I can see why he first re-acted by tackling Johnny, but the fact that he seemed ****** for so long seems kinda over exagerated.[/QUOTE]
People handle things different and everyone has something that means so much to them. At that time, his family's pictures was the only thing he had that could remind him off his son. And I'm sure, ask any parent around, when you have a child, nothing means as much to you then that. Yeah, maybe Derrick shouldn't be mad for so long, but he had a right to get upset. When someone invades your personal space, and at the same time makes you think something happened to the sacred things, you have a right to be mad. I would be too. Especially when you are mad, and someone is laughing. Johnny quickly figured out Derrick was serious, but at first when Derrick jumped off the bed, Johnny was laughing. That just makes it all worse. And it does kinda suck when he said to do a prank to someone else, but I can see where he's coming from. He is or maybe was close with Johnny, and had his back for so long, he maybe thought Johnny had enough respect for him to not do something like that.
[QUOTE=TheKorean;134144]Evan has only won 1 challenge, Veronica has won 3...[/QUOTE]
Wrong... EVAN has won 1 challenge, Veronica has won 0... Veronica's TEAMS have won 3.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134385]Wrong... EVAN has won 1 challenge, Veronica has won 0... Veronica's TEAMS have won 3.[/QUOTE]
That also counts as Veronica winning. If it doesn't then that means the only people who have won is Wes, Jodi, Evan and Rachel.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134385]Wrong... EVAN has won 1 challenge, Veronica has won 0... Veronica's TEAMS have won 3.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, she must be on the wrong team then. Actually, it should have only been Wes and Evan on the Champions team with that logic.
[QUOTE=RW561015;134377]I was thinking that now she knows how Katie felt on The Inferno, too. I thought it was pretty mean, what she and the RR team did to Katie. I didn't like it and was really upset at them for it. Felt so badly for Katie. But the one thing you could say in that case was that Katie was a clear weak link. Veronica was not a clear weak link on The Ruins. Still don't agree with how things were handled on The Inferno, but I think they had more of a "legitimate" reason to not want Katie on the team than the people on the Champions team do with Veronica.
As I said, I thought Veronica and co were low on The Inferno, and I got nearly as upset at them as I did with the crew on G3, but I felt the people were a lot more awful on G3 (if we are just talking about challenge behavior). Throwing missions to get rid of decent competitors and leaving weak ones, making it an against the women issue, treating a sick person horribly - to me that was worse. But me thinking that still does not excuse Veronica's past.[/QUOTE]
Veronica is the last person to have the right to call foul to the Champions wanting to get rid of her. If she had the numbers on her side she would be doing the exact same thing to them. If there's one girl in these challenges who would do anything in order to win that is Veronica and this challenge hasn't been the exception (hooking up with Evan). She's just mad that she no longer is in control like she used to be when she had her clique by her side.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;134390]Veronica is the last person to have the right to call foul to the Champions wanting to get rid of her. If she had the numbers on her side she would be doing the exact same thing to them. If there's one girl in these challenges who would do anything in order to win that is Veronica and this challenge hasn't been the exception (hooking up with Evan). She's just mad that she no longer is in control like she used to be when she had her clique by her side.[/QUOTE]
I'm [I][U][B]not[/B][/U][/I] arguing that Veronica has a right to call foul - just saying that [I]I[/I] disagree that Veronica's been worse than some of the people on this challenge in terms of shady play. But I absolutely agree that she's been quite shady as well in the past, and have been upset with her actions and the way she's treated people.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134385]Wrong... EVAN has won 1 challenge, Veronica has won 0... Veronica's TEAMS have won 3.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on this one. The idea that Veronica is a better competitor than Evan because she's won more challenges is simply ridiculous. Veronica would stand no chance in a Duel type of challenge. Yes, in the sense of this competition she has won and is therefore a "Champion" for this challenge but in the general context of the challenges is not true that a win is a win. There are challenges that are a lot harder to win than others. One of her 3 wins is Challenge 2000 when people didn't even get voted off.... and she never, not once set foot on a 1on1 during G1 or I1. She simply has been lucky to have been part of good teams, that's all.
[QUOTE=RW561015;134393]I'm [I][U][B]not[/B][/U][/I] arguing that Veronica has a right to call foul - just saying that [I]I[/I] disagree that Veronica's been worse than some of the people on this challenge in terms of shady play. But I absolutely agree that she's been quite shady as well in the past, and have been upset with her actions and the way she's treated people.[/QUOTE]
the thing is that veronica got played just like everyone else did when they started on the challenges because she got screwed over by emily and the inner circle 2 seasons in a row
[QUOTE=RW561015;134393]I'm [I][U][B]not[/B][/U][/I] arguing that Veronica has a right to call foul - just saying that [I]I[/I] [U]disagree that Veronica's been worse than some of the people on this challenge in terms of shady play[/U]. But I absolutely agree that she's been quite shady as well in the past, and have been upset with her actions and the way she's treated people.[/QUOTE]
Then again, the only reason we haven't seen Veronica play her game at its best (or worst) is because she simply doesn't have the numbers, not because this is a different Veronica who would no longer be willing to play shady...
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;134396]I agree with you on this one. The idea that Veronica is a better competitor than Evan because she's won more challenges is simply ridiculous. Veronica would stand no chance in a Duel type of challenge. Yes, in the sense of this competition she has won and is therefore a "Champion" for this challenge but in the general context of the challenges is not true that a win is a win. There are challenges that are a lot harder to win than others. One of her 3 wins is Challenge 2000 when people didn't even get voted off.... and she never, not once set foot on a 1on1 during G1 or I1. She simply has been lucky to have been part of good teams, that's all.[/QUOTE]
I hate the logic that people think a certain player is better than another just because they've won more challenges. Darrell has won more challenges than Evan, CT, and Landon combined but is he better than them? No. Evan stepped up to the challenge and took a risk and called out CT on the Duel and lost, and on Gauntlet 3, that clearly wasn't his fault that his team lost the final.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134400]I hate the logic that people think a certain player is better than another just because they've won more challenges. Darrell has won more challenges than Evan, CT, and Landon combined but is he better than them? No. Evan stepped up to the challenge and took a risk and called out CT on the Duel and lost, and on Gauntlet 3, that clearly wasn't his fault that his team lost the final.[/QUOTE]
Because people don't like to really analyze things. They see numbers and just go with the numbers but don't take the time to put things into perspective. For example: Katie won a challenge, Brad has NEVER won a challenge. If we were to go simply by numbers instead of analyzing things someone would say that Katie is a better competitor. Is that true? I don't think so....
Going strictly and solely by numbers lead to absurd conclusions like the one in this example.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134400]I hate the logic that people think a certain player is better than another just because they've won more challenges. Darrell has won more challenges than Evan, CT, and Landon combined but is he better than them? No. Evan stepped up to the challenge and took a risk and called out CT on the Duel and lost, and on Gauntlet 3, that clearly wasn't his fault that his team lost the final.[/QUOTE]
The same could be said with the point you're trying to get across. Just because she hasn't won a Duel type competition doesn't mean her accomplishments should be discredited. She was lucky to be put on the teams that she was, well then the same has to be said for and Landon who hasn't won an individual challenge, and CT was lucky to even make it to the finals because of his team.
The statements "CT" and "lucky to make the finals" do not go together. He is a beast & would make it to the end on any challenge that he doesn't get kicked off of.
[QUOTE=Rambo;134405]The statements "CT" and "lucky to make the finals" do not go together. He is a beast & would make it to the end on any challenge that he doesn't get kicked off of.[/QUOTE]
I'm just using the logic presented here that basically says if someone hasn't won an individual challenge then they got lucky.
Not for one second do I believe that CT wouldn't dominate any challenge he's put on.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;134403]The same could be said with the point you're trying to get across. Just because she hasn't won a Duel type competition doesn't mean her accomplishments should be discredited. She was lucky to be put on the teams that she was, well [U]then the same has to be said for and Landon who hasn't won an individual challenge, and CT was lucky to even make it to the finals because of his team[/U].[/QUOTE]
That logic simply doesn't make sense when you're either the best or one of the best members of your team something that Veronica has never been and something that has always been the case for Landon and CT. And both Landon and CT made it VERY far in the duels they competed in, barely missing the final. The idea that what Veronica has contributed to her teams' victories can somehow be compared to Landon and CT's contributions to their teams sounds way off. Sounds like comparing oranges and apples to me but I guess to each their own.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;134407]I'm just using the logic presented here that basically says if someone hasn't won an individual challenge then they got lucky.
Not for one second do I believe that CT wouldn't dominate any challenge he's put on.[/QUOTE]
And that logic makes sense to apply it to Veronica since she hasn't proven herself as a strong individual competitor but it makes no sense to apply it to CT because he, without a doubt, has proven himself as a strong individual competitor being usually the driving force behind the teams he's been a part of.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;134398]Then again, the only reason we haven't seen Veronica play her game at its best (or worst) is because she simply doesn't have the numbers, not because this is a different Veronica who would no longer be willing to play shady...[/QUOTE]
Once again, I am [B][I]not[/I][/B] arguing that Veronica has not played shady, or that she has a right to call foul, or anything of the sort. I am [I][B]not[/B][/I] saying that she would not have played shady in this challenge as well if she had her circle of friends around her. Those are not the points I am making in my posts. I have actually been against Veronica's actions in a number of seasons she's been in. I just responded to another post that I felt other people have been worse than Veronica. And by that I mean just who I've thought displayed the worst behavior on challenges, not who has been worse on this challenge. When I said the people on this challenge, I was not measuring the actions of them against the actions of Veronica on this challenge. I just meant that certain people who are on this challenge have, IMO, done worse things than Veronica, and I even gave examples of what they did (I cited G3 as the particular challenge example). I myself pointed out that now Veronica knows how it feels to have someone gang up against you and plot to get you out.
[QUOTE=oo4evah;134397]the thing is that veronica got played just like everyone else did when they started on the challenges because she got screwed over by emily and the inner circle 2 seasons in a row[/QUOTE]
Yes, I've seen those challenges, when they initially aired. So yes, she has been plotted against. But on this challenge, this is after Veronica has had more power to control how things were going in the game. This is after she was on top. After she has plotted against someone else (when in the past, she wasn't putting a plan in effect to get rid of someone). That stuff in the past happened earlier in her challenge days, early in challenge days period (especially vote off challenges). Plus she doesn't have really have a crew on this show, whereas she did at least on Battle of the Sexes. She is much more on the outside this time, I feel, so it makes a bit of a difference to me.
As for the whole debate on team challenge wins, I think anyone can end up making it to the end of a challenge. Some of course have greater chances than others, but there have been stronger and weaker people who have won challenges. I don't think it's necessarily indicative of a competitor's overall ability that they've won OR lost a challenge with a team. I get the argument ElectraWoman is making.
[QUOTE=RW561015;134410]Once again, I am [B][I]not[/I][/B] arguing that Veronica has not played shady, or that she has a right to call foul, or anything of the sort. I am [I][B]not[/B][/I] saying that she would not have played shady in this challenge as well if she had her circle of friends around her. Those are not the points I am making in my posts. I have actually been against Veronica's actions in a number of seasons she's been in. I just responded to another post that I felt other people have been worse than Veronica. And by that I mean just who I've thought displayed the worst behavior on challenges, not who has been worse on this challenge. When I said the people on this challenge, I was not measuring the actions of them against the actions of Veronica on this challenge. I just meant that certain people who are on this challenge have, IMO, done worse things than Veronica, and I even gave examples of what they did (I cited G3 as the particular challenge example). I myself pointed out that now Veronica knows how it feels to have someone gang up against you and plot to get you out.[/QUOTE]
And I'm certainly not saying that you have said any of those things. I simply read what you wrote and chose to comment on the irony of the situation for Veronica, considering that if she had the numbers she'd be gunning for people she didn't like and try to get them out. I'm aware of what you said, I simply chose to comment on the irony involved in what you were commenting about.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;134411]And I'm certainly not saying that you have said any of those things. I simply read what you wrote and chose to comment on the irony of the situation for Veronica, considering that if she had the numbers she'd be gunning for people she didn't like and try to get them out. I'm aware of what you said, I simply chose to comment on the irony involved in what you were commenting about.[/QUOTE]
the only times she ever gunned for anyone were for katie on the inferno and tonya on the inferno II when they were the weakest links it was just an added bonus that she happened to hate
[QUOTE=RW561015;134410]Once again, I am [B][I]not[/I][/B] arguing that Veronica has not played shady, or that she has a right to call foul, or anything of the sort. I am [I][B]not[/B][/I] saying that she would not have played shady in this challenge as well if she had her circle of friends around her. Those are not the points I am making in my posts. I have actually been against Veronica's actions in a number of seasons she's been in. I just responded to another post that I felt other people have been worse than Veronica. And by that I mean just who I've thought displayed the worst behavior on challenges, not who has been worse on this challenge. When I said the people on this challenge, I was not measuring the actions of them against the actions of Veronica on this challenge. I just meant that certain people who are on this challenge have, IMO, done worse things than Veronica, and I even gave examples of what they did (I cited G3 as the particular challenge example). I myself pointed out that now Veronica knows how it feels to have someone gang up against you and plot to get you out.
Yes, I've seen those challenge,, when they initially aired. So yes, she has been plotted against. But on this challenge, this is after Veronica has had more power to control how things were going in the game. This is after she was on top. That stuff in the past happened earlier in her challenge days, early in challenge days period (especially vote off challenges). Plus she doesn't have really have a crew on this show, whereas she did at least on Battle of the Sexes. [B]She is much more on the outside this time, I feel, so it makes a bit of a difference to me.[/B]
As for the whole debate on team challenge wins, I think anyone can end up making it to the end of a challenge. Some of course have greater chances than others, but there have been stronger and weaker people who have won challenges. I don't think it's necessarily indicative of a competitor's overall ability that they've won OR lost a challenge with a team. [B]I get the argument ElectraWoman is making.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thank you, at least someone does.
As for the other bold part: I feel like she is very much in the same position that Rachel was in on the Island, the outsider, due to the fact that she took so much time off. More than anything, I think the Ruins has offered her a chance to network, and if she decides to do another challenge, I'm sure she'll have a little more control over her situation.
[QUOTE=Ctk495;134336]I hated this episode.Wes is never suppose to loss.I mean he always makes it to the end.He is like Superman.It feels strage to see Wes leave at the middle of the season.[/QUOTE]
I agree!! He's Wes, Wes does NOT lose. I'm so heartbroken. He really didn't look like himself when TJ was telling them about the rules of the game. I still think he's a bada** competitor, he's still superman in my eyes. Very sad day.
Pages