[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;132796]Tonya is not Veronica's responsibility. I don't know why that's so hard to understand. If she didn't want people to say mean things to her, she shouldn't have gone because it was obvious she wasn't stable enough to be there. I agree she should have stood up for herself, just like Veronica should have with all the **** Tonya was saying to her, but I haven't seen many people here who agree with Tonya getting physical.
Since you seem to think Tonya shouldn't take responsibility for herself then why is Veronica the only one getting attacked in this thread? Did I imagine the part where JEK would torment her? Was it because at the end they were "nice"? How many people were in that room, and how many stepped in to tell them both to quit. Obviously no one cared enough to stop the horrible bully that is Veronica.
Should any of those things been said? No. Should Tonya have hit her? Definitely not.[/QUOTE]
So many assumptions and things that are simply wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Who said that Tonya was Veronica's responsibility? Obviously she wasn't. Veronica made the decision to contribute to a situation that she had the power to avoid. Tonya, not so much. I don't read anyone saying that Tonya was Veronica's responsibility. What I see people saying is that Veronica, as a [U]rational and mature individual [/U](if she is, something that based on how she handled this I seriously doubt) was way more capable to put a stop to that argument than Tonya was.
We have only seen some footage of that fight. ALL the cast members who have spoken about it have said that Veronica said something she shouldn't have said. What did she say? I don't know, but it must've been something really bad for Evan to even say that Veronica should've been kicked off too.
I'd love to know where are you getting from that I'm suggesting that Tonya shouldn't take responsibility for herself. Offcourse she does. All I'm saying is that in this situation, based on what I saw, based on what the cast members who were there had to say, based on the past drama between Tonya and Veronica, based on the totality of the circumstances Veronica should've put a stop to it before it got to the point it got. That's what you would expect a mature rational individual to do when arguing with a "crazy person".
To me if anything Veronica proved that she's not a lot less crazy or a lot more stable than Tonya. I mean, who tries to have an argument with someone that you think is crazy? That makes no sense.
As for JEK and company, they were certainly in the wrong for not putting a stop to that but I really don't see your point in bringing them up. Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right? They were all wrong, but clearly [B]of the two people directly involved in that argument [/B]the one that was supposed to be able to be mature and put a stop to it was Veronica. What the cast members have said is that not only did she not put a stop to the argument but that she actually provoked Tonya even more by making comments she shouldn't have made.
I'm just appauled that someone can celebrate the fact that Veronica supposedly got what she wanted out of this situation. That means celebrating that she simply mortified someone who was obviously not able to handle that kind of pressure. That's like celebrating an adult who is making fun of and mortifying a child.
When it was taking place the ruin on the 4th episode, does anyone notice that Casey looks a lot like Kristen Dunst? jajjaja I know that have nothing to do with the topic, but I just noticed that
[QUOTE=Vane81;132809]When it was taking place the ruin on the 4th episode, does anyone notice that Casey looks a lot like Kristen Dunst? jajjaja I know that have nothing to do with the topic, but I just noticed that[/QUOTE]
No, I don't think so at all... Plus Kirsten Dunst isn't annoying.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;132807]So many assumptions and things that are simply wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Who said that Tonya was Veronica's responsibility? Obviously she wasn't. Veronica made the decision to contribute to a situation that she had the power to avoid. Tonya, not so much. I don't read anyone saying that Tonya was Veronica's responsibility. What I see people saying is that Veronica, as a [U]rational and mature individual [/U](if she is, something that based on how she handled this I seriously doubt) was way more capable to put a stop to that argument than Tonya was.[/QUOTE]
You find things wrong with what I say, just like I find things wrong with what you say. I'm not willing to say Tonya was the victim just because someone said something mean to her. What I meant by Tonya not being Veronica's responsibility is that Tonya had just as much power to walk away as Veronica did. She did it when Johnny threw powder in her face, but she can't do it with Veronica?
[QUOTE]We have only seen some footage of that fight. ALL the cast members who have spoken about it have said that Veronica said something she shouldn't have said. What did she say? I don't know, but it must've been something really bad for Evan to even say that Veronica should've been kicked off too.[/QUOTE]
And I wonder how many of those people sat there and laughed at that horrible thing she said, but then found it to be appalling after Tonya slapped Veronica and got sent home. I also find it hard to believe that whatever she said was any worse than what Emilee said to Ayiiia about her abortion, or what Ayiiia said to Emilee about her adoption, or what Joey said to Ayiiia about her cutting. The only difference is these people are smart enough not to let words provoke them to hitting someone. I don't care if the statement she made is the most vile statement that could ever be made, Tonya crossed the line when she got in Veronica's face, knocked her food out of her hand and then slapped her.
[QUOTE]I'd love to know where are you getting from that I'm suggesting that Tonya shouldn't take responsibility for herself. Offcourse she does. All I'm saying is that in this situation, based on what I saw, based on what the cast members who were there had to say, based on the past drama between Tonya and Veronica, based on the totality of the circumstances Veronica should've put a stop to it before it got to the point it got. That's what you would expect a mature rational individual to do when arguing with a "crazy person".
To me if anything Veronica proved that she's not a lot less crazy or a lot more stable than Tonya. I mean, who tries to have an argument with someone that you think is crazy? That makes no sense.[/QUOTE]
Because Veronica thrives on drama, and I've never said that she didn't.
[QUOTE]As for JEK and company, they were certainly in the wrong for not putting a stop to that but I really don't see your point in bringing them up. Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right? They were all wrong, but clearly [B]of the two people directly involved in that argument [/B]the one that was supposed to be able to be mature and put a stop to it was Veronica. What the cast members have said is that not only did she not put a stop to the argument but that she actually provoked Tonya even more by making comments she shouldn't have made. [/QUOTE]
But Tonya gets a pass with the comments she made to Veronica just because she's "crazy"? Tonya didn't like what Veronica said, then walk out of the room. Just like she did when she didn't like Johnny and Evan picking on her.
[QUOTE]I'm just appauled that someone can celebrate the fact that Veronica supposedly got what she wanted out of this situation. That means celebrating that she simply mortified someone who was obviously not able to handle that kind of pressure. That's like celebrating an adult who is making fun of and mortifying a child.[/QUOTE]
So now we're comparing Tonya to a child? She's almost 30 years old. I don't care how unstable she is, that's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, Veronica got exactly what she wanted when she told Tonya she wanted to hit her. She's never claimed to be nice or friendly, but no matter how big of a jerk she is, it doesn't make what Tonya did right. In one of my earlier posts I said that they were both to blame for what happened, but I refuse to label her as a victim because Veronica said something mean.
[QUOTE]You find things wrong with what I say, just like I find things wrong with what you say. I'm not willing to say Tonya was the victim just because someone said something mean to her. What I meant by Tonya not being Veronica's responsibility is that [U]Tonya had just as much power to walk away as Veronica did.[/U] She did it when Johnny threw powder in her face, but she can't do it with Veronica?[/QUOTE]
I guess we're going to have to disagree on that one because I don't think that Tonya had just as much power to walk away and none of the people who were actually there seem to think so either. The Johnny incident is irrelevant. I guess that you're way of arguing is referring to other incidents, but I rather stay on track. We saw very little of what hapenned when Johnny threw the powder to be able to make an assesment of what hapenned there, not that it means anything when it comes to Tonya/Veronica's fight.
[QUOTE]And I wonder how many of those people sat there and laughed at that horrible thing she said, but then found it to be appalling after Tonya slapped Veronica and got sent home. I also find it hard to believe that whatever she said was any worse than what Emilee said to Ayiiia about her abortion, or what Ayiiia said to Emilee about her adoption, or what Joey said to Ayiiia about her cutting. The only difference is these people are smart enough not to let words provoke them to hitting someone. I don't care if the statement she made is the most vile statement that could ever be made, Tonya crossed the line when she got in Veronica's face, knocked her food out of her hand and then slapped her. [/QUOTE]
You weren't there, neither was I so obviously we're just speculating. Bottom line here is that they all agree that Veronica crossed the line with the comments she made. They all agree that Tonya's behavior was erratic. She was not stable, some even say that she was crazy and not rational. She was obviously depressed. We can argue forever about this if you want, but in that argument is obvious that Veronica had the upper hand. Whoever thinks that Tonya had the same power that Veronica had to put a stop to that fight must be living in the same planet Tonya seemed to be living at. As for Emilee, Ayiia, etc. I didn't even read that part because it's not relevant at all to what we're discussing here and once I again I prefer to stay on track.
[QUOTE]But Tonya gets a pass with the comments she made to Veronica just because she's "crazy"? Tonya didn't like what Veronica said, then walk out of the room. Just like she did when she didn't like Johnny and Evan picking on her. So now we're comparing Tonya to a child? She's almost 30 years old. I don't care how unstable she is, that's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, Veronica got exactly what she wanted when she told Tonya she wanted to hit her. She's never claimed to be nice or friendly, but no matter how big of a jerk she is, it doesn't make what Tonya did right. In one of my earlier posts I said that they were both to blame for what happened, but I refuse to label her as a victim because Veronica said something mean.[/QUOTE]
Yes, when you're convinced that someone is crazy and that you're a smart rational individual you don't waste your time arguing with that person, let alone mortifying them like Veronica did to Tonya. I'm surprised that you don't realize that in your defense of Veronica you're basically labelling her as crazy and unstable too. That's the only way those 2 could've been at the same level.
Tonya might be 29 years old, but emotionally she seemed to be just as unstable and vulnerable as a child. We can agree to disagree, to me it's appauling for someone to celebrate what Veronica did. She obviously isn't a mature and kind individual. I would never take advantage of someone who is in a situation like that. Not when I claim that the person is crazy and I'm supposed to be a rational adult. That would only make me look just as crazy as this other person.
What makes Tonya a victim in this situation is her state of mind. You said that she should've known better than to do a challenge if she felt like that. That is assume that she was capable of making that desicion, something that you don't know and that common sense should tell you that it was actually the opposite: that she wasn't capable of saying, no I will not do a challenge. In case you didn't know it, Tonya is grew up as a foster child. She doesn't really have a family. The people in these challenges are really her family. After just getting divorced, and all that she was going through it only makes sense for her to want to go and spend time with her family from the challenges.
We can argue about this forever but in this situation I have zero empathy for Veronica. I don't condone physical violence but I can assure you that what Veronica said to Tonya was probably more disturbing to her than the few slaps Veronica got were to her. I simply hate bullies and it's just appauling for me to see someone celebrating the behavior of a bully. You probably enjoyed when CT hit Davis, or when he pushed Adam in RW Paris, or when they fought in The Duel, because you probably think that they too were in the same position.
[QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Are you kidding with this post? You talk about how I get off track with things that don't support the argument they had on this challenge, but you bring up Tonya's past that doesn't need to be included with the talk of the fight they had in the present. Then you bring up CT when he wasn't even on this challenge? So much for staying on track.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;132886]Are you kidding with this post? You talk about how I get off track with things that don't support the argument they had on this challenge, but you bring up Tonya's past that doesn't need to be included with the talk of the fight they had in the present. Then you bring up CT when he wasn't even on this challenge? So much for staying on track.[/QUOTE]
Wrong, I only bring up incidents that are either pertinent to the discussion or that illustrate a somewhat similar situation. You bring up incidents of people who were in the wrong to use it as a scapegoat and somehow divert the attention away from Veronica, as if two wrongs made a right or something.
Tonya's past is completely relevant to the discussion because it was that past and all that she was going through what influenced her state of mind at that time. That seems so obvious to me that I can't believe I'm having to explain it.
The CT reference was relevant in the sense that it illustrates another bullying behavior that I personally do not condone.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;132887]Wrong, I only bring up incidents that are either pertinent to the discussion or that illustrate a somewhat similar situation. You bring up incidents of people who were in the wrong to use it as a scapegoat and somehow divert the attention away from Veronica, as if two wrongs made a right or something.
Tonya's past is completely relevant to the discussion because it was that past and all that she was going through what influenced her state of mind at that time. That seems so obvious to me that I can't believe I'm having to explain it.
The CT reference was relevant in the sense that it illustrates another bullying behavior that I personally do not condone.[/QUOTE]
So, let me get this straight, the cast of Cancun saying horrible things to each other isn't similar to Veronica and Tonya saying horrible things to each other, and Tonya being fully capable of leaving the room when Johnny and Evan were picking on her isn't pertinent to the argument? But somehow CT is relevant to this situation? Your logic escapes me.
I guess you missed the part where I said that Tonya crossed the line when she hit Veronica, so why would I enjoy when CT does it? Again, you're stretching.
Anyway, I'm done hijacking this thread. I'm not going to condemn Veronica just like you aren't going to stop seeing Tonya as the victim, so this conversation is done.
I think that Tonya and Veronica are both the victims and both in the wrong. Tonya should have never put her hands on Veronica but Veronica shouldn't have provoked Tonya. Veronica knew that Tonya was extremely drunk and knew that if she pushed her far enough that Tonya would hit her.
[QUOTE=salt&vinegar;132905]I think that Tonya and Veronica are both the victims and both in the wrong. [/QUOTE]
I have said more than once that they were both in the wrong, but it seems like Dannyboy picked me out of the others who didn't condemn Veronica. One of my initial posts pretty much says Veronica shouldn't have said the things she did, but Tonya certainly shouldn't have stooped so low as to hit her. Any sympathy I had for her flew out the window when she decided to use violence as a means to stand up for herself. If the fight had resulted in Tonya leaving the room crying, then my view on the whole ordeal would be different.
[QUOTE]So, let me get this straight, the cast of Cancun saying horrible things to each other isn't similar to Veronica and Tonya saying horrible things to each other, and Tonya being fully capable of leaving the room when Johnny and Evan were picking on her isn't pertinent to the argument? But somehow CT is relevant to this situation? Your logic escapes me.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, under no circumstance are we talking about a similar situation, because neither of the Cancun castmembers were as unstable, and going through so many things and basically hitting rock bottom as Tonya was in this challenge (this said by the cast members who were actually there). Not sure why my logic escapes you.
You keep talking about this clip of a few seconds in which we see Tonya walking away after Johnny and Evan picked on her and I fail to see what does that have to do with anything. Do Johnny, Evan and Tonya have the same background that Tonya and Veronica have in terms of previous fight/arguments with one another? Do you know exactly what hapenned there and if Johnny and Evan were offending Tonya at a personal level for you to try to compare that situation to the Tonya/Veronica incident?
[QUOTE]I guess you missed the part where I said that Tonya crossed the line when she hit Veronica, so why would I enjoy when CT does it? Again, you're stretching.[/QUOTE]
Because obviously Tonya wasn't the bully here. The bully here was Veronica and you're going out of your way to justify her. If you justify Veronica's bully behavior I wouldn't be surprised if you did the same with CT's equally bully behavior in the past. This once again it's so obvious that I can't believe I'm having to clarify it.
[QUOTE]Anyway, I'm done hijacking this thread. I'm not going to condemn Veronica just like you aren't going to stop seeing Tonya as the victim, so this conversation is done.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I just want to say something else on your first comment that actually started this discussion. You said that Veronica got what she wanted. That basically she provoked Tonya to get her to hit her and be kicked off the challenge. Well next week we will see how well that plays out for her. I mean, if Veronica got Tonya kicked off the show on purpose, she must be just as crazy as Tonya. Either crazy or stupid, because who does she think her team will be willing to sacrifice now that Tonya is gone? Susie? Johanna? Ibis? She must be delusional if she thinks her team will side with her when having to choose between her and any of these 3 girls.
She said that hitting Tonya back was not worth getting kicked off the show and not being able to win the money but she purposedly got her kicked off the show which will do nothing but jeopardize her stay in the game. Interesting. We will see next week how much of a smart move getting Tonya kicked off "on purpose" was.
[QUOTE=PirateLegs;132911]Dannyboy's logic escapes me too Electra. His whole argument seems irrelevant to me. Anyone who contradicts themselves that much shouldn't even be paid any attention to.[/QUOTE]
And you create an account just to say this? Geez, I'm sorry that my logic escapes you, but this is not the Logic 101 forum, so I really can't help you on that one :/.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;132906]I have said more than once that they were both in the wrong, but it seems like [U]Dannyboy picked me out of the others[/U] who didn't condemn Veronica. One of my initial posts pretty much says Veronica shouldn't have said the things she did, but Tonya certainly shouldn't have stooped so low as to hit her. Any sympathy I had for her flew out the window when she decided to use violence as a means to stand up for herself. If the fight had resulted in Tonya leaving the room crying, then my view on the whole ordeal would be different.[/QUOTE]
The only reason I quoted you is because you were the only person I saw basically celebrating that supposedly Veronica got what she wanted, because contrary to you, I (as well as the cast members who were there) can recognize that Tonya and Veronica did not have the same power to put a stop to that argument. Let's agree to disagree. Next week we will see if Veronica really got what she wanted.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;132913]And you create an account just to say this? Geez, I'm sorry that my logic escapes you, but this is not the Logic 101 forum, so I really can't help you on that one :/.[/QUOTE]
I watch the show and sometimes come here to read what other viewers think of the episodes. Yes, I created an account [I]just[/I] to say that to you. You got me.
I actually agreed with everything Electra said. You, on the other hand, keep contradicting yourself. You say the situations the cast members of Cancun were in are irrelevant to the argument.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;132913]Exactly, under no circumstance are we talking about a similar situation, because neither of the Cancun castmembers were as unstable, and going through so many things and basically hitting rock bottom as Tonya was in this challenge (this said by the cast members who were actually there). Not sure why my logic escapes you.[/QUOTE]
Wow, really? You didn't think Ayiiia, a person who literally cut herself, isn't as unstable and going through so many things? Obviously she was or she wouldn't have felt the need to inflict pain upon herself more than once while in Cancun. I think she and Tonya are relatable.
I think all Electra was trying to say (from what I read) was that Tonya could have easily walked away just as easily as Veronica. I don't necessarily think she was choosing sides and I highly doubt she was "celebrating" that Veronica got what she wanted. I, too, thought Veronica and Tonya were both in the wrong. The situation shouldn't have escalated to that level and if the other cast members were really that concerned about either of the women they should have stepped in. I won't respond to anything else you have to say just because I really only enjoy reading other viewers' opinions, not actually getting involved. :/
[QUOTE]I watch the show and sometimes come here to read what other viewers think of the episodes. Yes, I created an account [I]just[/I] to say that to you. You got me.
I actually agreed with everything Electra said. You, on the other hand, keep contradicting yourself. You say the situations the cast members of Cancun were in are irrelevant to the argument. [/QUOTE]
I respect your opinion but I don't see which of my statements actually contradict one another. Feel free to point them out to me.
The reason I said and I still think that the situations of cast members of Cancun are irrelevant is well.... because they are. We're talking about Tonya and Veronica and for someone to bring up stuff that hapenned in RW-Cancun to somehow condemn Tonya's behavior and/or justify Veronica is just plain illogical. We're talking about different people, different scenarios, different state of minds, different everything basically.
[QUOTE]Wow, really? You didn't think Ayiiia, a person who literally cut herself, isn't as unstable and going through so many things? Obviously she was or she wouldn't have felt the need to inflict pain upon herself more than once while in Cancun. I think she and Tonya are relatable. [/QUOTE]
Yes, I agree that Ayiiia was probably just as unstable as Tonya (although I do think Tonya is a bit crazy something I don't think Ayiiia is at all). This is the same Ayiiia that had to be hold by several cast members or else she would've hit CJ. And I certainly don't think it was right for Joey to bully her and say all the mean things he said to her.
It is still not relevant to compare the Emilee/Ayiiia argument to the Veronica/Tonya fight. Was Ayiiia drunk when she had that argument with Emilee? I mean, what is the point of the comparison really? To say that because Ayiiia was able to control herself and not hit Emilee, Tonya was supposed to be able to do the same? Like really? How can someone feel that he/she has the elements to reach such conclusion?
[QUOTE]I think all Electra was trying to say (from what I read) was that Tonya could have easily walked away just as easily as Veronica. I don't necessarily think she was choosing sides and I highly doubt she was "celebrating" that Veronica got what she wanted. I, too, thought Veronica and Tonya were both in the wrong. The situation shouldn't have escalated to that level and if the other cast members were really that concerned about either of the women they should have stepped in. I won't respond to anything else you have to say just because I really only enjoy reading other viewers' opinions, not actually getting involved. :/[/QUOTE]
I got what Electra was trying to say. I simply disagree that Tonya could've walked away just as easily as Veronica. I don't think they both were equally capable of putting a stop to that and all Electra says is that Tonya could have easily walked away but is not backing up that statement. Unless I miss the part when she said that they were both equally able to walk away because they were both just as unstable, or unless we should consider as conclusive that because Ayiiia walked away when she argued with Emilee, that means that Tonya was able to do the same, or because we saw a clip of a few seconds in which Tonya walked away from Evan and Johnny, we can conclude that they both offended her personally and she still walked away and she therefore was able to do the same when arguing with Veronica. This "evidence" that Tonya was just as able to walk away as Veronica was to me is as valid as this statement: "Tonya could have easily walked away because I think and say so".
Last time I checked Tonya still had two legs, so yes, she was able to walk away. I don't care how unstable she is/was, she is responsible for her own actions.
[QUOTE=DerrickFTW;132934]Last time I checked Tonya still had two legs, so yes, she was able to walk away. I don't care how unstable she is/was, she is responsible for her own actions.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. That's the only point I was trying to make in this discussion, but you said it in a much more concise way.
Nothing excuses violence. Not even being raised in a foster home, getting a divorce and especially just by someone being mean. The moment she slapped Veronica is the moment I stopped feeling sorry for her.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;132939]Thank you. That's the only point I was trying to make in this discussion, but you said it in a much more concise way.
Nothing excuses violence. Not even being raised in a foster home, getting a divorce and especially just by someone being mean. The moment she slapped Veronica is the moment I stopped feeling sorry for her.[/QUOTE]
Luckily our system of justice does take into account people's state of mind, intent and capability of making a decision when acting. It would be insane to think that everyone is mentally able at all times to react calmly and refrain themselves from using physical violence when they feel they're being attacked. Let's not forget that there is also verbal violence.
BTW, I never said that being raised in a foster home, getting a divorce, etc, justifies using violence. Way to [I]try[/I] to twist my words. I said that those things explain Tonya's state of mind and lesser ability than Veronica to put a stop to that argument before it got physical like it did. Mentally speaking, Veronica definitely had the upper hand in that argument, she simply chose not to use it.
Oh that's true, Veronica got what she wanted. Let's just wait until next week's episode to see how well that plays out for her.
[QUOTE=trees12;132931]I couldn't concur more.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I was starting to think that I was crazy since at least two people (I think) have said that my logic escapes them. Good to see that at least one person can understand me.
[QUOTE=ElectraWoman;132945]Why is it when someone else doesn't agree with what you're saying, they're not a real person? I didn't make a new account just to continue to argue with you.
DerrickFTW made a comment about the situation, but you continue to respond to me when I said that the conversation between you and I was over. Please be respectable enough to end the conversation, not only for me, but for other posters of this board. I have mentioned your name once since I ended this but you can't seem to move on from me to other people. This is the last time I'll respond to you, so please quit quoting and responding to me.
PS- No court of law would side with Tonya in this instance. Also I'm pretty sure the love square, or whatever, is going to be the focus of next weeks episode, not Veronica.[/QUOTE]
1) I never said that you made a new account.
2) I responded to you because you were twisting my words. It was obviously me who mentioned Tonya having been raised in a foster home. Don't ask me to be "respectful" enough to end the conversation when you continue to make reference to the statements I made. You don't have to say my name or quote me for it to be obvious that you're mentioning statements made by me.
3) As for the court of law comment, I never said that a court of law would side with Tonya and I should know that since I happen to be an attorney. I simply gave an example of how absurd not taking into account people's state of mind could turn if we were to simply say: "you're an adult, I don't care about your state of mind, you shouldn't have done what you did" Offcourse someone's state of mind matters.
4) As far as next week's episode, I never said or suggested that it was going to be focused on Veronica. Let's just wait and see how well having gotten Tonya kicked on "purpose" plays out for Veronica in terms of who goes into the elimination round.
Tonya knew she was mentally very unstable. Still she puts herself in situations where she should know she might get trouble. Why did she even come on this challenge? Did the production do a poor job at judging if she was unstable or not? Maybe you can't hold Tonya fully responsible for what she did. You can say:"She's unstable, she's an alcoholic."
But then I think: Tonya, go find yourself some help instead of coming on this Challenge where you know will be people who will try to screw you over.
[QUOTE=DerrickFTW;132950]Tonya knew she was mentally very unstable. Still she puts herself in situations where she should know she might get trouble. Why did she even come on this challenge? Did the production do a poor job at judging if she was unstable or not? Maybe you can't hold Tonya fully responsible for what she did. You can say:"She's unstable, she's an alcoholic."
But then I think: Tonya, go find yourself some help instead of coming on this Challenge where you know will be people who will try to screw you over.[/QUOTE]
I basically agree. I think the production is to blame for this. They shouldn't have let her come to the challenge in that condition. The reason I don't say that she should've known better than to go to the challenge is because I wonder if based on her background the challenge people are after all like a family to her (maybe the only family she has) and maybe she felt like she needed them to help her cope with what she was going through. Who knows. Either way I do agree that she needs to get some help and that coming on this challenge was not the smarted decision she could've made.
Considering this is the place that went into a tizzy when Sharon Osbourne pulled Megan from CS's hair the reactions i am hearing shock me.
First off Veronica walked away from Tonya multiple times and Tonya followed her. Veronica was talking with Kim, and Tonya stormed in and attacked Veronica as we saw on the show. Or as we saw on the extra clips Tonya was ****** someone pranked her, Veronica said something and Tonya flips on Veronica for no reason. How is any of this Veronica's fault?
Just because Tonya is "crazy" doesn't mean she gets to do whatever she wants. If Tonya is going to yell and call out Veronica, Veronica has every right to do the same thing back. Tonya is a grown woman and needs to be accountable for her actions. Why is it okay for Tonya to go crazy on everyone without getting in trouble. Veronica finally put in her in her place by laughing at her, telling her she is crazy, maybe Tonya finally got the picture.
Veronica is said to have thrown a "low blow" at Tonya...well what were the things Tonya was saying to Veronica if those were not "low blows" about the whole ***** or ****** thing.
And was Veronica the only one laughing at Tonya, NO the whole room was, so why Veronica is getting blamed for this is beyond me.
Tonya is crazy and was clearly in the wrong. Tonya started a fight with Veronica for NO REASON! Tonya started the fight on her own (outside with Casey, Veronica and Her), Tonya continued the fight inside, and Tonya threw a punch.
TONYA YOU SUCK AND ARE DESPERATE FOR CAMERA TIME AND SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED BACK ON A CHALLENGE!
From what was seen from earlier dailies Veronica seemed to take up for Tonya multiple times when other people(i.e.Johnny,Kenny,Evan)were making fun of her.Also,it seemed to me,that Veronica was walking away(granted still talking)when Tonya followed Veronica to attack her. Veronica may have known what she was doing when she provoked Tonya.But let's be real Tonya has done enough of these challenges to know the rules and what happens if you hit people. Why cry after you know you going home when you knew that's what would happen before you did it?
Okay I still want to know what did Veronica say that was "crossing the line" Someone just say it. Tonya said she was doing a blog exclusively on it to expose everything but then once again Tonya danced around it saying "there are some things you don't say to a woman" and that she couldn 't repeat it.
These people on these challenges say mean things all the time. I want to know what Veronica said that would disgust even Evan and Kenny. Or are they just villianizing Veronica to make themselves look better?
[QUOTE=Unicorn;132999]Okay I still want to know what did Veronica say that was "crossing the line" Someone just say it. Tonya said she was doing a blog exclusively on it to expose everything but then once again Tonya danced around it saying "there are some things you don't say to a woman" and that she couldn 't repeat it.
These people on these challenges say mean things all the time. I want to know what Veronica said that would disgust even Evan and Kenny. Or are they just villianizing Veronica to make themselves look better?[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna go with your latter statement of Evan and Kenny considering Katie hinted at something of the sort in her blog.
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