It definitely is the theme that ultimately determines how well a season's ratings will be. We most likely will never see "Old vs New" or any esoteric format that only superfans will understand at a glance. The only way to gain new viewers is to appeal to the casual audience; that's not necessarily a bad thing.
[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;424310]Though it will [B]not[/B] happen, it could be a good idea for season 26 to air before RW 30. It would give the Ex-Plosion cast a chance to appear (it can be debated whether or not their exclusion from Free Agents was the right move or not for ratings). Since it looks like filming dates for both shows will clash yet again, there likely won't be any RW 30 cast members on the upcoming challenge and that may hurt ratings a bit. Ex-Plosion got better ratings than Free Agents did, and a lot of newer fans were upset they weren't on it, doing the same thing with RW 30's cast might not be a smart decision.[/QUOTE]
This.
But it seems like BMP is doing the same thing AGAIN. So dumb.
[QUOTE=Challenge 17;424355]Knight sure as hell doesn't have the personality he's just a annoying ******* and so you're saying they shouldn't have Zach because he's to good? That makes no sense[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of athletes in the world that would embarrass 99% of the participants on this show.
Zach is "too good" against this current crop. IMO, if you want to cast him, you have to cast several other big dogs that can give him a run for his money.
Same thing with Laurel this season. Even with her head out of the game, completely distracted by the Jordan and Cara Maria stuff, she walks into the finale. It would be a lot more interesting of Emily or Evelyn were around to at least keep Laurel honest.
Its fun to see challengers of different skill levels and different abilities as long as you believe anything can happen on a given day/challenge. In physical challenges, Zach would beat many of the guys this season 100 out of 100 times. That isn't good TV.
And whether you like him or not, Knight does have the personality. Being polarizing is good. Whether you love him or hate him, you'll watch. Indifference is the problem BMP has to avoid.
[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;424358]This is more depressing than the last thirty pages. The Challenge [B][U]can[/U][/B] survive without CT, apparently you're one of the delusional fans that thinks otherwise (and the reason the show is in it's current state).
If the new generation is never given the chance to shine and take the stage, how can the show continue? The series can not, and was not designed to be carried by a singular individual. It isn't a matter of the new generation not being able to carry a season, it's the fans and their unwillingness to accept them and let go of the former generation that's the issue. In the end, fans of the show will be its bane.[/QUOTE]
I'm not delusional. I've watched from the very first challenge, and I still watch every single episode. And I don't really matter because I don't have a Nielsen box, lol.
The new generation HAS been given the chance. This is the fourth season where they've played a prominent role. My point was that they're failing. And I think BMP has made matters worse (then necessary) by modifying the ratio of old to new players. For most of the first 20 seasons of this show (excluding Fresh Meat), the majority of the cast were vets, the minority were new players (either 1st or 2nd timers). The new players got sprinkled in (giving the audience time to meet/accept them). That is why vets dominated and made the newer players earn their way. Now BMP casts way more from the newer generation, meaning the audience is less familiar with them, AND the vets have less power/control of the game. Thats the choice they've made, and I don't think it has worked.
But I'll continue to watch. Just giving my thoughts here.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424418]There are plenty of athletes in the world that would embarrass 99% of the participants on this show.
Zach is "too good" against this current crop. IMO, if you want to cast him, you have to cast several other big dogs that can give him a run for his money.
Same thing with Laurel this season. Even with her head out of the game, completely distracted by the Jordan and Cara Maria stuff, she walks into the finale. It would be a lot more interesting of Emily or Evelyn were around to at least keep Laurel honest.
Its fun to see challengers of different skill levels and different abilities as long as you believe anything can happen on a given day/challenge. In physical challenges, Zach would beat many of the guys this season 100 out of 100 times. That isn't good TV.
And whether you like him or not, Knight does have the personality. Being polarizing is good. Whether you love him or hate him, you'll watch. Indifference is the problem BMP has to avoid.[/QUOTE]
I literally posted the other day how he makes me want to skip a season. Knight makes me want to turn of the TV. And he's a horrible competitor.
And who said anything about athletes?
Um CT and Bananas out performed him in pretty much every mission so what are you talking about run for his money?
Knight is GOAT when it comes to entertainment. I can't wait to see him again, the dude is absolutely hilarious.
And LOL at people complaining about good athletes. You either bust your *** off in the gym or you can come as how you are and get destroyed like Chet and Brandon.
Although I do agree that they should have less eliminations that have to deal with size and body weight. They need more endurance eliminations and missions.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;424367]Look at Fresh Meat 2. Evelyn, Kenny, Wes, Paula, Jenn, Darrell, Jillian, Landon - all big names for that era, including popular old schoolers. Absolute ratings flop. Old schoolers are not the key to saving the show.
BMP doesn't cater to us. We're the super fans and they'll know we're going to watch regardless. They want to draw people in while being able to maintain the show successfully. Old schoolers are not likely to get involved in drama or hookup as they are more mature and have outside lives and careers. In an ideal world, believe me, I'd be totally in agreement with you, but realistically, if you want the Challenge to survive, it's gonna be basically new school and their story lines from here on out and the theme, more than the cast, is what attracts new or casual viewers to the season.[/QUOTE]
As to the 2nd part, I absolutely agree. They don't cater to us, they probably don't even acknowledge our preferences. Doesn't mean I can't share my thoughts on it, though.
As to the 1st part, I blame the failure of FM2 on the location. Several reality TV shows have failed miserably when shot in those climates. Its cold, everyone covers up in layers, and all woods look the same. And a lot of the difficulties in the challenges don't translate to the viewer because we can't feel how numb their fingers are and stuff like that.
All of the Challenges, regardless of how exotic the location, should be shot a) in warm weather and b) near water. Bathing suits helps ratings. Doesn't matter if its The Challenge, Survivor, or Amazing Race. You want good looking people and you want them showing some skin, at least some of the time.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424424]As to the 2nd part, I absolutely agree. They don't cater to us, they probably don't even acknowledge our preferences. Doesn't mean I can't share my thoughts on it, though.
As to the 1st part, I blame the failure of FM2 on the location. Several reality TV shows have failed miserably when shot in those climates. Its cold, everyone covers up in layers, and all woods look the same. And a lot of the difficulties in the challenges don't translate to the viewer because we can't feel how numb their fingers are and stuff like that.
All of the Challenges, regardless of how exotic the location, should be shot a) in warm weather and b) near water. Bathing suits helps ratings. Doesn't matter if its The Challenge, Survivor, or Amazing Race. You want good looking people and you want them showing some skin, at least some of the time.[/QUOTE]
Lol you're crazy if you really think bathing suits help ratings for the challenge..... your logic is very flawed, nobody goes" wow they are in bathing suits, I'm interested" besides there are way to many water challenges anyway.
[QUOTE=Challenge 17;424422]Um CT and Bananas out performed him in pretty much every mission so what are you talking about run for his money?[/QUOTE]
CT is competition for Zach (probably the only legit comp. this season). Bananas is up there, but not quite.
And no, they didn't. The early stuff was team or group oriented. In the individual or pair stuff, Zach consistently placed higher (at least until the puzzle on the Crossover challenge, lol).
I'm not anti-Zach. I just think they need to cast better male athletes on the seasons he is on.
[QUOTE=toenails;424394]It definitely is the theme that ultimately determines how well a season's ratings will be. We most likely will never see "Old vs New" or any esoteric format that only superfans will understand at a glance. The only way to gain new viewers is to appeal to the casual audience; [B]that's not necessarily a bad thing.[/B][/QUOTE]
See I think it is. Because What other themes can BMP do that people can relate to and watch? They can't just keep on doing Rivals and Exes all the time so what else is there that BMP can do to attract viewers? I feel like this is the type of show that doesn't really lend itself to relatable themes like other shows do. So what are they gonna do moving forward? I feel like BMP is gonna have to get real creative because their options are going to be limited as far as formats.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;424434]Um... I highly doubt anyone saw that FM2 was filmed in Canada and went, "Wow, I don't like that location." And didn't tune in.[/QUOTE]
Consciously? No. But it makes a difference (and its proven, I read a study on it a few years ago). Survivor learned from that season filmed in China and they've never made the mistake again.
[QUOTE=Challenge 17;424432]Lol you're crazy if you really think bathing suits help ratings for the challenge.....[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding? Bikinis absolutely help ratings. Sex sells cars, beer, clothing, movies, and just about any other product. Any TV person will tell you that leaving tropical weather for a show of this nature was a mistake.
I see several posts mentioning bringing in new viewers. Thats fine and all, but isn't priority #1 keeping the viewers you have? That is why I like something of say a 75/25 ratio of old familiar faces to new faces. Not everyone that watches the Challenge watches RW. Bringing in this many new folks may get you some new viewers, but it may also alienate some of your current viewers. They need to find the right balance.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424441]Are you kidding? Bikinis absolutely help ratings. Sex sells cars, beer, clothing, movies, and just about any other product. Any TV person will tell you that leaving tropical weather for a show of this nature was a mistake.[/QUOTE]
By that logic then battle of the seasons should have done great because of the oil episode.....
And by this logic the island must have done great considering they were in swimsuits all the time....
This isn't a commercial, saying that less bikinis mean less ratings is stupid because not everyone who watches is a guy or cares about what they were. Real world ST Thomas for example was in s tropical location and it was one of the worst rated rw seasons despite the bikinis.
Notice how all the RW and Challenge houses have a nice big swimming pool? Jacuzzi? You think that is a coincidence?
RW St. Thomas (which I didn't watch, as I haven't watched RW in about 10 years) may have sucked because of the cast? I didn't love their contribution to the Challenge, at least. Or maybe people have just tired of the RW concept? I know I did.
Good looking people make good TV. Seeing more of those people, regardless of gender or situation, makes good TV. That is why they're given ridiculous speedos to do some challenges. Disagreeing with this is ridiculous, so please don't.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;424359]The show is designed to be comprised of the entire show not just the current seasons. Notice how older fans never had an issue accepting or allowing newer people to take over the show before. Real World casting has been awful. [B]Most of the new people are absolutely useless athletically and as entertainment value.[/B][/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I disagree with this completely. I fully believe the new kids can carry this show. The problem is that the audience has been fed JEK/Wes/CT/Paula for so long that they don't wanna except the new kids.
But As far this athletic nonsense..I agree that the they don't appear to be as good as the past generations but I wouldn't say they're all useless. The only ones I would say are useless are Preston/Jasmine/Knight/Devyn. The rest are either Decent. Average, or good, IMO.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424449]Notice how all the RW and Challenge houses have a nice big swimming pool? Jacuzzi? You think that is a coincidence?
RW St. Thomas (which I didn't watch, as I haven't watched RW in about 10 years) may have sucked because of the cast? I didn't love their contribution to the Challenge, at least. Or maybe people have just tired of the RW concept? I know I did.
Good looking people make good TV. Seeing more of those people, regardless of gender or situation, makes good TV. That is why they're given ridiculous speedos to do some challenges. Disagreeing with this is ridiculous, so please don't.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying its not always correct, explosion the highest rated season in years went in the hot tub one time in the first episode.
I'm saying it's stupid to blame the location for fresh meat 2 when it was the fact most people hate the idea of it...
And they don't cast all good looking people.
So you haven't watched the rw in ten years yet your name is rwrr4life?
I'm saying nobody cares about what they are wearing that's not going to make or break a season
Interesting what Susanne Daniels (Head of Programming on MTV) stated on a article:
"When we're developing these shows, we're aware of that aspect of the format, and we have to develop certain moments in the format that specifically address potential behavior issues, themes that any general audience can understand and can related to that's what attract viewers" Daniels says. "But the young contestants who want to appear on [Are You the One? , Real World] seem to be about more than just seeking their 15 minutes of fame. They've grown up watching these and are comfortable with the notion of the camera in their face and they're also remarkably comfortable sharing their entire lives."
That's why they developed the format first and then cast for it.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424445]I see several posts mentioning bringing in new viewers. Thats fine and all, but isn't priority #1 keeping the viewers you have? That is why I like something of say a 75/25 ratio of old familiar faces to new faces. Not everyone that watches the Challenge watches RW. Bringing in this many new folks may get you some new viewers, but it may also alienate some of your current viewers. They need to find the right balance.[/QUOTE]
That priority is bringing and maintaining new viewers. Another point you need to understand is that someone like Darrell/Landon/Ruthie doesn't have the fan base in the Target demographic MTV is seeking for right now and the one of the channel.
Like I say and it has been proved with articles, ratings of shows/seasons with relatable themes and even with some interviews of Susanne Daniels...Cast come second after developing a social experiment, which means a reliable/relatable theme of seeing how people react in certain situations. That's why the only themes that have worked for the challenges in the last 8 seasons are Exes /Rivals/Rivals 2 other than that no matter the cast the ratings have be bad at the time compared to other shows (The Gauntlet 3 to an extend, The Island, Fresh Meat 2, Cutthroat, Seasons have done mediocre). They even have to add the twist to The Real World to make it work for ratings, which it did. A normal competition show like Rooks vs Veterans, RW vs RR, Individual , old vs new, etc wouldn't work right now in the rating department reality TV and viewers have involved.
That's why I am expecting next season to be a theme one, either an Exes 2 or some new theme that can attract people to watch.
[QUOTE=PinkRose;424458]I don't know why people make such a big deal with theme challenges...[/QUOTE]
I like themes personally but I see why people don't, not everyone will fit the theme then people's favorites won't be there and people they hate will.
I'm not so keen on themes, but if it's what helps the show with bringing in viewers, I guess I'm okay with it since I'll watch it anyways. If BMP can come up with formats like Free Agents, then I have faith they can come up with themes other than Exes or Rivals. As long as the format of the theme is fair, and the cast/missions/eliminations are balanced and entertaining, then I'm all in for it. The thing with the past themes that I don't like is how they are always pairs. I think I just got sick of seeing pairs which made me dislike themes.
Personally I'm fine with themes. The only problems I have, as mentioned above, is the constant use of pairs (I am [I]so tired[/I] of pair Challenges) and it limits the casting options, which leads to the recycled casts we've been seeing lately.
[QUOTE=RWRR4Life;424424]As to the 2nd part, I absolutely agree. They don't cater to us, they probably don't even acknowledge our preferences. Doesn't mean I can't share my thoughts on it, though.
As to the 1st part, I blame the failure of FM2 on the location. Several reality TV shows have failed miserably when shot in those climates. Its cold, everyone covers up in layers, and all woods look the same. And a lot of the difficulties in the challenges don't translate to the viewer because we can't feel how numb their fingers are and stuff like that.
All of the Challenges, regardless of how exotic the location, should be shot a) in warm weather and b) near water. Bathing suits helps ratings. Doesn't matter if its The Challenge, Survivor, or Amazing Race. You want good looking people and you want them showing some skin, at least some of the time.[/QUOTE]
This whole post is just a mess!
[QUOTE=JayTee;424470]BMP are trolls.
Says they want viewers and ratings
Doesn't realize that big team challenges like Gauntlet 3 and Ruins brought in great ratings[/QUOTE]
I want a big team challenge again. If they need an easily comprehended theme, they should go for Inferno IV. Tout it as heroes vs villains. Boom.
[QUOTE=JayTee;424470]BMP are trolls.
Says they want viewers and ratings
Back in the day.
Doesn't realize that big team challenges like Gauntlet 3 and Ruins brought in great ratings[/QUOTE]
Back in the day.
[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;424473]I want a big team challenge again. If they need an easily comprehended theme, they should go for Inferno IV. Tout it as heroes vs villains. Boom.[/QUOTE]
No. Not relatable.
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