[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440029]Replace Bananas and Kenny from there and I would agree.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, and I could even understand why he would put Bananas there, but Kenny is in no way in the 5 tier
Kenny is miles beyond better to have on your team than Brad, Abram and Alton2.0.
He's a beast at finals and is the King of politics, all qualities when it comes to being a top Challenger. I'm not talking about who's the best athlete, I'm talking about there best Challengers/Competitors.
[QUOTE=Youssarian;440036]Are you talking about Kenny in an elimination round? He got beaten by Nehemiah... Kenny is great at finals and undoubtedly an amazing strategist but I get the feeling elimination rounds aren't his strong suit. I definitely think Brad could take him.[/QUOTE]
I can't stand Kenny but in anything physical like if brad did rag doll against him I think he'd win.
[QUOTE=Challenge 17;440077]I can't stand Kenny but in anything physical like if brad did rag doll against him I think he'd win.[/QUOTE]
See this is why it's hard to have a good debate on this forum because a lot of you judge someone's qualities in a negative way just because you don't like their personality. That is so moronic and ignorant.
Take Frank Sweeney. I don't like him, I would love to give em a Knight slap if I could, but as a competitor I know he's a beast and will perform better than some of my favorites like Derrick and Leroy.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440081]See this is why it's hard to have a good debate on this forum because a lot of you judge someone's qualities in a negative way just because you don't like their personality. That is so moronic and ignorant.
Take Frank Sweeney. I don't like him, I would love to give em a Knight slap if I could, but as a competitor I know he's a beast and will perform better than some of my favorites like Derrick and Leroy.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, he's saying that even though he can't stand Kenny, he thinks he'd win most physical things.
I've seen comments that CT would have won the Duel hands down if he hadn't ripped the flag.
Would he? Wes still would have won the head start on the soccer challenge.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440058]Kenny is miles beyond better to have on your team than Brad, Abram and Alton2.0.
He's a beast at finals and is the King of politics, all qualities when it comes to being a top Challenger. I'm not talking about who's the best athlete, I'm talking about there best Challengers/Competitors.[/QUOTE]
And I've said that competitors and players are totally different already. Politics and the like don't have much to do with how you perform on missions/finals/elimination rounds. I have even said Kenny is one of rhe best Challenge PLAYERS. It seems you are the one who is guilty of beinf biased as you tried to defend Kenny being a great competitor because he kills finals.
There is no way Frank is better than Derrick....and before you say I am biased, Frank honestly doesn't bother me as much as he did to everyone else and I'm not crazy about Derrick either.
[QUOTE=Johnny Utah;440137]I've seen comments that CT would have won the Duel hands down if he hadn't ripped the flag.
Would he? Wes still would have won the head start on the soccer challenge.[/QUOTE]
And Brad still almost caught up and won.
I'd take CT over Brad in almost everything, but the way CT flip-flipped after a Diem left and became kind of a wreck, I don't think he would've kept his calm in the final after Wes having a head start.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440166]And I've said that competitors and players are totally different already. Politics and the like don't have much to do with how you perform on missions/finals/elimination rounds. I have even said Kenny is one of rhe best Challenge PLAYERS. It seems you are the one who is guilty of beinf biased as you tried to defend Kenny being a great competitor because he kills finals.
There is no way Frank is better than Derrick....and before you say I am biased, Frank honestly doesn't bother me as much as he did to everyone else and I'm not crazy about Derrick either.[/QUOTE]
First of all get it through your head that I'm not talking about who's the best athlete, I'm talking about who's better in general (athleticism, mental ability, politics, etc...) get that through your head. Just being athletic doesn't automatically make someone great at challenges. Overall, Kenny is a top tier competitor because he's the King if politics, kills every final, has the most finals appearances behind Bananas, only lost 1 elimination, and has multiple wins. He plays the game better than almost everyone that has step foot onto a Challenge. Get that through your thick skull, I'm talking about a Challenger as a whole (all characteristics involved, not just athleticism).
And Frank Sweeney is miles better than Derrick K. Frank is a gas station, he'll destroy finals and he's also bigger than Derrick so he has size on him for physical missions. Not to mention that Derrick isnt the brightest crayon in the box so Sweeney would be more reliable for puzzles (unless they involve multiplying). Derrick K. would be a level 4 tier player along the likes of Brad and Abram.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440025][B]Brad is a strong competitor, but he's no match for the Kings of Kings (JEK)[/B].
I would rank Brad in the level 4 tier along people like Alton and Abram.
CT, Landon, JEK, Miz, Theo are some examples of the level 5 tier.[/QUOTE]
Aren't you talking about competitor here not player? Yeah Kenny is good at the politics but Brad could probably beat Kenny in most eliminations.
[QUOTE=KChallenge10;440186]Aren't you talking about competitor here not player? Yeah Kenny is good at the politics but Brad could probably beat Kenny in most eliminations.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about just athleticism, I'm talking about being a great Challenger overall.
Most of you are getting the word "competitor" confused with "athlete", so I'll just stick with "Challenger" to not get anyone confused.
What makes an elite challenger? People like CT, Landon, Bananas, Kenny, Evan, Mark, Frank S., Theo, Miz, etc... they possess a lot, if not all, the qualities to not only compete in the missions/eliminations/finals but also play the political and psychological game that comes with each Challenge. You need to have tough skin to master this game both literally and figuretively speaking. Otherwise, athletes like Zach and CJ would be winning challenges with ease.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440178]First of all get it through your head that I'm not talking about who's the best athlete, I'm talking about who's better in general (athleticism, mental ability, politics, etc...) get that through your head. Just being athletic doesn't automatically make someone great at challenges. Overall, Kenny is a top tier competitor because he's the King if politics, kills every final, has the most finals appearances behind Bananas, only lost 1 elimination, and has multiple wins. He plays the game better than almost everyone that has step foot onto a Challenge. Get that through your thick skull, I'm talking about a Challenger as a whole (all characteristics involved, not just athleticism).
And Frank Sweeney is miles better than Derrick K. Frank is a gas station, he'll destroy finals and he's also bigger than Derrick so he has size on him for physical missions. Not to mention that Derrick isnt the brightest crayon in the box so Sweeney would be more reliable for puzzles (unless they involve multiplying). Derrick K. would be a level 4 tier player along the likes of Brad and Abram.[/QUOTE]
Forgive me for that then. You once tried to argue Kenny was a top 10 competitor because he kills finals so I assumed we were talking about competitors strictly. CT is definitely not even close to being a elite player, in that case.
He may have size, but Derrick has an insane amount of fight and even beat guys who should have destroyed him. Not only that, but D has competed and kept up with Landon, CT, Darrell, etc. Compare that with Frank's competition.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440192]Forgive me for that then. You once tried to argue Kenny was a top 10 competitor because he kills finals so I assumed we were talking about competitors strictly. CT is definitely not even close to being a elite player, in that case.
He may have size, but Derrick has an insane amount of fight and even beat guys who should have destroyed him. Not only that, but D has competed and kept up with Landon, CT, Darrell, etc. Compare that with Frank's competition.[/QUOTE]
No I was just pointing out one quality of his. I'll admit however that Kenny is more of a top 15 competitor than a top 10. And what do you mean CT is not a top competitor? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Have you seen all the missions and eliminations he has killed? Not to mention he did win a final. And before you say that final was weak let me tell you that it was tougher than any final pre-Duel 2. Probably tougher than the BOTS2 final as well since it was a very explosive final.
And when has Derrick kept up with CT, Lando and Darrell? That one mission on Duel 1 where he pushed Easy and CT off a 2 foot plank is the only mission where he performed better than CT but that mission was wack because you could have fallen in the water with just a misstep. Do you not remember CT murdering everyone including Derrick in that mission where you had to jump platform to platform collecting flags? It was all about Endurance and Speed, 2 qualities of Derrick, and CT blew him out of the water.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440197]No I was just pointing out one quality of his. I'll admit however that Kenny is more of a top 15 competitor than a top 10. And what do you mean CT is not a top competitor? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Have you seen all the missions and eliminations he has killed? Not to mention he did win a final. And before you say that final was weak let me tell you that it was tougher than any final pre-Duel 2. Probably tougher than the BOTS2 final as well since it was a very explosive final.
And when has Derrick kept up with CT, Lando and Darrell? That one mission on Duel 1 where he pushed Easy and CT off a 2 foot plank is the only mission where he performed better than CT but that mission was wack because you could have fallen in the water with just a misstep. Do you not remember CT murdering everyone including Derrick in that mission where you had to jump platform to platform collecting flags? It was all about Endurance and Speed, 2 qualities of Derrick, and CT blew him out of the water.[/QUOTE]
No, he is perhaps top 25-30. He is average in anything, aside from finals. You claimed you were discussing top players, if so, CT has a terrible political game: Rivals 1 for proof. Are we no longer counting that?
I never said he outperformed them or he was even better than CT. He has relatively kept up with them as in not smokeshowed. Of course in some missions he has been, but CT is the best competitor the show has seen so you will not see me argue there.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440202]No, he is perhaps top 25-30. He is average in anything, aside from finals. You claimed you were discussing top players, if so, CT has a terrible political game: Rivals 1 for proof. Are we no longer counting that?
I never said he outperformed them or he was even better than CT. He has relatively kept up with them as in not smokeshowed. Of course in some missions he has been, but CT is the best competitor the show has seen so you will not see me argue there.[/QUOTE]
I said these people posses MOST if not all the right qualities. CT obviously is lacking a LITTLE in the political aspect (I say a little because these past Challenges he has been sliding by thanks to the pawns that obey him). However, he excels in everything else. Abram, Derrick, Alton2.0 don't even compare to CT.
And how come now you're saying that CT is the best competitor when you said in your paragraph above that he is not? Lol. Some people are exceptions to needing to have qualities like political game. Landon doesn't need politics because he's a cyborg in every mission and final. Kenny isn't as good for missions so he relies in his political game on top of his other attributes. I would say that both Kenny and Landon are much more valuable players and players that have done more in this game than someone like Derrick K. Which is why, overall, I would rank them a whole tier above people like Derrick, Abram, Timmy, Zach, etc...
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440212]Jesus, did we not just go through the difference between competitor and player? Holy ****[/QUOTE]
You're not making sense. When you say competitor it's as if you mean just athletic abilities. What about mental abilities? I include those as well since The Challenge does include a lot of puzzles. There's also strategy involved in the missions/eliminations/finals.
I'm not talking about just athletic ability. Although Landon is the exception since he doesn't really need any strategy or politics since he's that good.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440220]You're not making sense. When you say competitor it's as if you mean just athletic abilities. What about mental abilities? I include those as well since The Challenge does include a lot of puzzles. There's also strategy involved in the missions/eliminations/finals.
I'm not talking about just athletic ability. Although Landon is the exception since he doesn't really need any strategy or politics since he's that good.[/QUOTE]
Comperitor: mission/final/elimination performances this obviously involves puzzles, etc.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;440240]Comperitor: mission/final/elimination performances this obviously involves puzzles, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I was referring to this exact same definition except I also included politics and strategy because those 2 aspects play a big role on every Challenge. So with those included, overall someone like Kenny is a HUGE asset to have. More so than someone like Derrick but not by a whole lot. Derrick is still a great "challenger" but Kenny has done a lot more and is more valuable to have on your team/pair IMO.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;440248]Brad would Destroy Kenny in ANYTHING!..Endurance, Puzzles,..You name it! Brad beats him easily...Except for Maybe Wrestling.[/QUOTE]
Kenny climbed a mountain with a 160lb ginger on his back. Kenny would beat Brad in an endurance draining mission/final.
Notice how I didn't say Kenny would "destroy" Brad, because Brad is good at endurance. However, there's a reason Kenny kills every final he's in without gasping for air at the end.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440249]Yes, I was referring to this exact same definition except I also included politics and strategy because those 2 aspects play a big role on every Challenge. So with those included, overall someone like Kenny is a HUGE asset to have. More so than someone like Derrick but not by a whole lot. Derrick is still a great "challenger" but Kenny has done a lot more and is more valuable to have on your team/pair IMO.[/QUOTE]
I just don't count that in with the best competitor. That goes along with player. There are a lot of people who have bad politics yet are still good to great competitors: like Laurel.
[QUOTE=infamous;439448]These debates are complete circle jerks.
If you had the option of not going into elimination vs. going into elimination, the choice is obvious.
Even though C.T. probably isn't afraid of anyone, he more than anyone definitely knows you can lose regardless of how much "better" or "comparable" you are than/to someone else.
Once you're sent into elimination, would you take Preston or CT if you really had to choose? I think the choice is almost obvious, again. Once your stuck in the worse situation, you're going to be sizing up the competition regardless. If you aren't at all nervous than good for you, but regardless, but I'm sure at least once every challenger thinks, "**** I could go home tonight".
Susie is an elite challenger of the real veterans like CT, just a versatile player. It's really a non-point whether someone thinks it's risky to go against someone or not[/QUOTE]
Very true! Susie tried to make the best out the worst situation in Inferno 3 and fortunately for her, she succeed. Not many people manage to pull that off. It was not so much masterminding as it was just trying to survive and grasping for an easy way out. Makes sense.
[QUOTE=JayTee;440249]Yes, I was referring to this exact same definition except I also included politics and strategy because those 2 aspects play a big role on every Challenge. So with those included, overall someone like Kenny is a HUGE asset to have. More so than someone like Derrick but not by a whole lot. Derrick is still a great "challenger" but Kenny has done a lot more and is more valuable to have on your team/pair IMO.[/QUOTE]
But what has Kenny done to show he's a huge asset for his politics? Before you mention FM2 the only reason he dismantled Wes' alliance was because he had the strongest partner in Laurel so they won a majority of the challenges. If he had anyone but Laurel he wouldn't have won so many challenges and would have been sent in many more times cause Wes had the numbers. I don't think Kenny is that valuable honestly he's average in challenges average in eliminations. The main reason he's seen so many finals has been because of others. (Ruins, Rivals)
[QUOTE=KChallenge10;440272]But what has Kenny done to show he's a huge asset for his politics? Before you mention FM2 the only reason he dismantled Wes' alliance was because he had the strongest partner in Laurel so they won a majority of the challenges. If he had anyone but Laurel he wouldn't have won so many challenges and would have been sent in many more times cause Wes had the numbers. I don't think Kenny is that valuable honestly he's average in challenges average in eliminations. The main reason he's seen so many finals has been because of others. (Ruins, Rivals)[/QUOTE]
You said the main reason he makes it to finals is because of others. Let me sum up what you said in one word: politics.
Someone average would be someone like Ty or Derek Chavez. Nothing special, no challenge wins, decent in missions. You seriously can't rank Kenny with those challengers. Kenny runs each house he's in, makes it to every final, and wins them most of the time. He doesn't gas out and he's only been eliminated once. Siding with him automatically puts you on the side that will make it far. You cant discredit his performance on FM2 because he still put in a lot of work with Laurel.
I tend to love the girl elimination rounds...and for me seeing the underdog fighting it always a thrill. I loved the Ruins battle between Katie & Sarah. I was routing for Katie, and I was impressed she one the first battle.
I also think Irulan vs Sarah G is one of the most epic battles...those two women have endurance.
Maybe we have different perceptions of someone who is good with the politics side of things. I see someone like Susie on the Ruins or Wes on the Duel as people who are good at the politics making good moves to get to the end. I think Kenny is average in challengers and eliminations mainly because he never really shines and sometimes even fails at them (Rivals). Him being good at finals raises his ranking but in everything but finals and having good friends that bring him to the end he's average to me.
[QUOTE=PinkRose;440327]My two favorite girl's elimination rounds:
Susie vs Kim (The Ruins)
Jonna/Jasmine vs Katelyn/Sara (Rivals)[/QUOTE]
Susie vs Kim was great! Kim in underrated imo, she was epic in that one!
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