Kam hasn't said she was playing "brave" either. She just called someone else out for making self preservation moves (not that anyone is wrong for making them.) That's a fair critique but she's not saying be anything otherwise THIS season (not a season from 3 years ago, the one that filmed in 2023).
And, again if everyone is mad at her for calling peoples games scared when it's just playing the game. I think some of y'all (Ibr is fairly rational even if I don't entirely agree) are just as bad as her because y'all are doing the same thing. This isn't a gotcha , it's the hypocrisy y'all claim to hate. I don't get why y'all are mad at people for playing the game the suits them, and get mad at people for being mad at that on the actual show , where they are actually affected by those actions. Because we aren't.
I think you're missing why anyone is upset at Kam. It's not about the moves Kam (or Cara) have made, it's the fact they're playing basically the same game but Kam is dogging Cara's moves as scared. Even Leroy admitted an episode or so ago that both women were right in ways.
If it's not about the moves why is their consistent critique of her moves in the process? Or even Brandon and Jasmine ? Yet, Caras moves are understood , and as you said, they are playing the same game.
Even Cara this episode got mad people we're gonna do Tina v . Kam because that didn't benefit her personal and no one questions it. Doesn't that make her scared even if it's rational? Per the logic some are using.
I can only speak for me, myself, and I, but my issue with Brandon and Jasmine's move was just the timing. I of course understand trying to get rid of a strong player, but Cara was protecting them in the game. If you turn on a strong player who has your back this early in the game, you run the risk of what we saw happen where that player comes back and then uses their strength to target you. To me those two specifically should have waited a bit longer to try to get Cara out, but only because she was an ally. If a strong player isn't protecting you, then go for them as soon as possible.
And of course Cara is playing scared in trying to protect her star, but again I can't remember Cara saying "I don't play scared" or criticizing others for playing scared. In fact she has said all along this season that she's playing defense. So, in my mind Cara isn't contracting herself. I also know in this recent episode Cara said it's smart of people to target her, so she isn't mad in general that people are coming for her; she got upset when it was Brandon because she thought they had each other in the game. Anyone would be upset if the person they thought was their #1 sent them in. Kam got upset with Cara over a pointless vote, so surely people can understand Cara getting upset that Brandon literally sent her into elimination.
And counter point if Cara got upset Kam didn't vote her way to protect her star then would you side with Kam or does this only apply to Kam?
First of all, I wouldn't say I am "upset" about any of this. None of this affects my emotional life lmao, I am just having a random discussion on a random board while making moves to try to keep up with Nurys. Anyway assuming we are talking pre-fallout, then the answer to your question is I would think Cara was not being loyal in that situation. Or even if there is a future situation this season where Cara asks Jay to vote in certain people and it would mean Jay losing a star, I would think it's in poor taste for Cara to ask that of him. (I liked in this recent episode where Cara noted Jay wouldn't say Nicole's name; she has an alliance with Jay, but is also aware of and seemingly respecting his other ties.)
I don't blame Kam for targeting Cara and I don't blame Cara for targeting Kam they all have valid reasons so I won't be fighting til the death for either
A simple conversation could've really solved all of this but with this being one winner they were gonna come to blows eventually because Kam knows Cara would beat Leroy in a final blindfolded and we all know she's playing for Leroy to get that win so this was always destined to take a turn in some way regardless it just happened earlier than expected
Now how Cara is being positioned as the biggest threat when the person who has mollywhopped her behind in multiple eliminations and can beat her in a final is still there is what's killing me. Big Stucky just getting a free ride because ain't nobody targeting Big Mama which is crazy
A simple conversation could've really solved all of this but with this being one winner they were gonna come to blows eventually because Kam knows Cara would beat Leroy in a final blindfolded and we all know she's playing for Leroy to get that win so this was always destined to take a turn in some way regardless it just happened earlier than expected
I blame Cara a little more about the conversation Leroy instigated -- she came into that room hot instead of actually listening to Kam which got Kam bothered more too.
It also would have been better if it was just Kam/Cara one-on-one or at most with Leroy, but the peanut gallery in the room didn't help either.
I don't blame Kam for targeting Cara and I don't blame Cara for targeting Kam they all have valid reasons so I won't be fighting til the death for either
It is funny though that Kam took a shot and Cara is single-handedly currently obliterating Kam's entire alliance as payback.
Cara is a lunatic though. Brandon and Jasmine have both come out to say that they hadn't talked to Cara in 8+ years. Brandon going as far to say that he's texted Cara multiple times over the years and received no responses from her.
The fact that she just expected them to protect her because they did a bunch of old seasons together (with the last one being freaking Free Agents) is a level of delusional entitlement that's hard to quantify.
idk that move from V is overrated. Jasmine outplayed her initially and couldn't hear whatever the hell they were whispering about fifty feet up in the stands.
i get that the main storylines theyre focusing on is cara vs kam & that toxic lesbian relationship, but they need to fix the lopsidedness. Everyone outside of those 5 should have confessionals explaining the daily, elimination reactions, talking about the main storylines, anything. Spread it out!
half the confessionals are tailored to those two storylines.
whats going on with the gays? Whats their political game like? How are the mean girls now that the physical threat of Rachel gone feeling? When does averey/adam connect? What are the randoms (steve&ace) doing? What funny shit is Flora saying? Whats going on with Brad? CMON.
The edit was a little bit better/even this episode and it better even out more now that there's only 16 people left. No one left should get less than 2 confessionals per episode from now on.
I don't blame Kam for targeting Cara and I don't blame Cara for targeting Kam they all have valid reasons so I won't be fighting til the death for either
It is funny though that Kam took a shot and Cara is single-handedly currently obliterating Kam's entire alliance as payback.
Cara is a lunatic though. Brandon and Jasmine have both come out to say that they hadn't talked to Cara in 8+ years. Brandon going as far to say that he's texted Cara multiple times over the years and received no responses from her.
The fact that she just expected them to protect her because they did a bunch of old seasons together (with the last one being freaking Free Agents) is a level of delusional entitlement that's hard to quantify.
You neglected to mention that Brandon in particular talked about how at one point he'd ensure Cara was at events with him and such because he liked her so much, so they definitely have a positive history. They didn't have a falling out, they just weren't in touch for years. Jemmye and others have said that is normal in the Challenge world (It's also normal in the real world; I have friends I haven't spoken to in years, but if we ended up in the same city we would get together because we're still friends). Brandon also knew it was a betrayal and said as such on the show (plus Jay noted Cara and Brandon were each other's #1s, so on some level it was known in the house they were working together regardless of the lack of contact outside the show). So, you aren't giving the full picture.
Having said that, from what we know Cara certainly should have had more clear conversation with Brandon and others. (At the same time, we did see her talk to Brandon multiple times about that upcoming vote and it was clear she thought they were working together, which gets back to my first line in this reply.)
@Fionalive you fail to realize that Brandon is simply closer to Leroy, inside and outside of the show. Helloooo? they lived together at one point. Idk why you keep going back to same the talking points, Brandon is closest to Leroy, so its not far fetched to think he would support Kam. Cara shouldve just had a conversation with Kam before the deliberation anyways
@Fionalive you fail to realize that Brandon is simply closer to Leroy, inside and outside of the show. Helloooo? they lived together at one point. Idk why you keep going back to same the talking points, Brandon is closest to Leroy, so its not far fetched to think he would support Kam. Cara shouldve just had a conversation with Kam before the deliberation anyways
Kam and Leroy are each other's #1s. Cara had Brandon as her #1. You do you, but in my world I **** with people who have me as #1 over people who do not. But even then, it's more about how Brandon handled it. He never told Cara what he was doing. He could have had a conversation with her, no?
Kam could have had a conversation with Cara, too. Kam didn't even mention her plan until the deliberation, and then just expected Cara and everyone to go along with it. It goes both ways. Clearly they were not communicating, which to me says neither of them should be upset.
I heard jasmine is claiming on the podcast that her and brandon came up with the idea to go against Cara and brought it to kam? Although the last part doesnt make sense to me, Kam didnt have a vote that time
Kam being Leroys number one doesnt matter if they are all aligned. Thats what an alliance is. More than 2 people make the final so Brandon isnt dumb for aligning with his IRL friends. Did Brandon know he was Cara's number one? Or was that something that was said to Jay to make herself look like a bigger victim.
I do feel like Cara had a reason to be upset because he wasnt upfront with his vote, but I also dont think hes wrong for siding with Leroy and Kam.
I heard jasmine is claiming on the podcast that her and brandon came up with the idea to go against Cara and brought it to kam? Although the last part doesnt make sense to me, Kam didnt have a vote that time
Condricts what Kam and I believe Brandon have said on the matter but it's possible I guess. I do wonder if Jasmine is upset about being called "Kam's mouthpiece" by Adam.
Kam being Leroys number one doesnt matter if they are all aligned. Thats what an alliance is. More than 2 people make the final so Brandon isnt dumb for aligning with his IRL friends. Did Brandon know he was Cara's number one? Or was that something that was said to Jay to make herself look like a bigger victim.
I do feel like Cara had a reason to be upset because he wasnt upfront with his vote, but I also dont think hes wrong for siding with Leroy and Kam.
Brandon said he knew she would never say his name, have his back over everyone post-show, but he also wanted to make a big moves.
But I do agree, it's a game, Cara is a threat and Kam/Leroy are just closer to him so of course he's going to take advice and/or make moves with them if he thinks it's good for his game. I think if he'd just said to her face it was possibility, no one would have any real issue with him -- not outside the Cara stans that can't see beyon their girl. Timing was iffy too but gotta shoot your shot when you can sometimes.
I heard jasmine is claiming on the podcast that her and brandon came up with the idea to go against Cara and brought it to kam? Although the last part doesnt make sense to me, Kam didnt have a vote that time
Condricts what Kam and I believe Brandon have said on the matter but it's possible I guess. I do wonder if Jasmine is upset about being called "Kam's mouthpiece" by Adam.
She didn't like that at all. She also got an issue with Jay and said she gonna make him cry if they do another season, and she do NOT like Cara
She didn't like that at all. She also got an issue with Jay and said she gonna make him cry if they do another season, and she do NOT like Cara
Jasmine needs to get good at the game before saying more. Anyway, what interview did you hear/read? I read her interview with Parade, and I thought she had great perspective on all of it. This is about her and Cara:
We are friendly. We have never had a problem on any Challenge together. When we do Challenges together, we don't really talk and hang out personally. But we don't have a problem with each other. At the end of the day, you're a co-worker. So that's what it is.
She also said Cara giving her a star did change things and that ultimately Cara got her checkmate:
Yeah, it definitely did change things. I kind of had to take a step back and re-analyze things. Because once I got that star, people that I was working with's attitudes changed. We're talking about people like Jay and Averey. [They were] like, "Oh, why did Cara give her a star when I saved Cara?" So it made I think people think that I had all these other deals. Because that's something that I did hear people floating around, that I was making deals here and deals there. And I'm like, "What deals am I making?" So Cara handing me the star really hurt my game in more ways than I thought. I thought it was a helpful thing. But now watching and seeing what everyone is saying, it hurt my game. I took a shot. It didn't work. She took a shot. And she nailed it right on point.
I can understand Jasmine being annoyed at Adam's comment, but it also means Jasmine didn't play in a way that people knew she was making her own moves (which can me smart tbh, because if done the right way you can avoid the blowback).
She didn't like that at all. She also got an issue with Jay and said she gonna make him cry if they do another season, and she do NOT like Cara
Jasmine needs to get good at the game before saying more. Anyway, what interview did you hear/read? I read her interview with Parade, and I thought she had great perspective on all of it. This is about Cara:
We are friendly. We have never had a problem on any Challenge together. When we do Challenges together, we don't really talk and hang out personally. But we don't have a problem with each other. At the end of the day, you're a co-worker. So that's what it is.
She also said Cara giving her a star did change things and that ultimately Cara got her checkmate:
Yeah, it definitely did change things. I kind of had to take a step back and re-analyze things. Because once I got that star, people that I was working with's attitudes changed. We're talking about people like Jay and Averey. [They were] like, "Oh, why did Cara give her a star when I saved Cara?" So it made I think people think that I had all these other deals. Because that's something that I did hear people floating around, that I was making deals here and deals there. And I'm like, "What deals am I making?" So Cara handing me the star really hurt my game in more ways than I thought. I thought it was a helpful thing. But now watching and seeing what everyone is saying, it hurt my game. I took a shot. It didn't work. She took a shot. And she nailed it right on point.
The official podcast. I might do a recap when I have time
It's funny that Veronica described Cara as an "energy vampire" who sucks the energy out of every room she's in because that's exactly how I would describe that hag! I don't know her... but I also don't wanna know her. Sooooooooo.
Weren't you cussing out Killa for not knowing who Jo was and not watching older seasons just last night? Now you are going to pretend not to know the second most iconic Challenger?
I was talking about not knowing her personally. Obviously I know who Veronica is, dumb dumb.
idk that move from V is overrated. Jasmine outplayed her initially and couldn't hear whatever the hell they were whispering about fifty feet up in the stands.
I don't wanna quote because it's too long but:
Kam hasn't said she was playing "brave" either. She just called someone else out for making self preservation moves (not that anyone is wrong for making them.) That's a fair critique but she's not saying be anything otherwise THIS season (not a season from 3 years ago, the one that filmed in 2023).
And, again if everyone is mad at her for calling peoples games scared when it's just playing the game. I think some of y'all (Ibr is fairly rational even if I don't entirely agree) are just as bad as her because y'all are doing the same thing. This isn't a gotcha , it's the hypocrisy y'all claim to hate. I don't get why y'all are mad at people for playing the game the suits them, and get mad at people for being mad at that on the actual show , where they are actually affected by those actions. Because we aren't.
But work isn't moving slow anymore so I think that's enough on that for the day. It's really no way to explain this without a wall of text ijbol.
I can only speak for me, myself, and I, but my issue with Brandon and Jasmine's move was just the timing. I of course understand trying to get rid of a strong player, but Cara was protecting them in the game. If you turn on a strong player who has your back this early in the game, you run the risk of what we saw happen where that player comes back and then uses their strength to target you. To me those two specifically should have waited a bit longer to try to get Cara out, but only because she was an ally. If a strong player isn't protecting you, then go for them as soon as possible.
And of course Cara is playing scared in trying to protect her star, but again I can't remember Cara saying "I don't play scared" or criticizing others for playing scared. In fact she has said all along this season that she's playing defense. So, in my mind Cara isn't contracting herself. I also know in this recent episode Cara said it's smart of people to target her, so she isn't mad in general that people are coming for her; she got upset when it was Brandon because she thought they had each other in the game. Anyone would be upset if the person they thought was their #1 sent them in. Kam got upset with Cara over a pointless vote, so surely people can understand Cara getting upset that Brandon literally sent her into elimination.
First of all, I wouldn't say I am "upset" about any of this. None of this affects my emotional life lmao, I am just having a random discussion on a random board while making moves to try to keep up with Nurys. Anyway assuming we are talking pre-fallout, then the answer to your question is I would think Cara was not being loyal in that situation. Or even if there is a future situation this season where Cara asks Jay to vote in certain people and it would mean Jay losing a star, I would think it's in poor taste for Cara to ask that of him. (I liked in this recent episode where Cara noted Jay wouldn't say Nicole's name; she has an alliance with Jay, but is also aware of and seemingly respecting his other ties.)
Kam and Cara are both right in some way in this feud neither are wrong for how they feel
I don't blame Kam for targeting Cara and I don't blame Cara for targeting Kam they all have valid reasons so I won't be fighting til the death for either
A simple conversation could've really solved all of this but with this being one winner they were gonna come to blows eventually because Kam knows Cara would beat Leroy in a final blindfolded and we all know she's playing for Leroy to get that win so this was always destined to take a turn in some way regardless it just happened earlier than expected
Now how Cara is being positioned as the biggest threat when the person who has mollywhopped her behind in multiple eliminations and can beat her in a final is still there is what's killing me. Big Stucky just getting a free ride because ain't nobody targeting Big Mama which is crazy
I blame Cara a little more about the conversation Leroy instigated -- she came into that room hot instead of actually listening to Kam which got Kam bothered more too.
It also would have been better if it was just Kam/Cara one-on-one or at most with Leroy, but the peanut gallery in the room didn't help either.
It is funny though that Kam took a shot and Cara is single-handedly currently obliterating Kam's entire alliance as payback.
Cara is a lunatic though. Brandon and Jasmine have both come out to say that they hadn't talked to Cara in 8+ years. Brandon going as far to say that he's texted Cara multiple times over the years and received no responses from her.
The fact that she just expected them to protect her because they did a bunch of old seasons together (with the last one being freaking Free Agents) is a level of delusional entitlement that's hard to quantify.
Can we just give it up for people playing the game and not being sheep? I like that
That dominating, unlikable, festering alliance on the flagship is about to infect this show and end that forever.
idk that move from V is overrated. Jasmine outplayed her initially and couldn't hear whatever the hell they were whispering about fifty feet up in the stands.
Ace being at the beach in camo cargo shorts and flip flops is every reason I love him.
(can't remember who posted the pic)
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half the confessionals are tailored to those two storylines.
whats going on with the gays? Whats their political game like? How are the mean girls now that the physical threat of Rachel gone feeling? When does averey/adam connect? What are the randoms (steve&ace) doing? What funny shit is Flora saying? Whats going on with Brad? CMON.
Ace still only having as many confessionals as first boot Tyri is wild.
And yes, I want answers to all of those questions my cohort asked.
The edit was a little bit better/even this episode and it better even out more now that there's only 16 people left. No one left should get less than 2 confessionals per episode from now on.
You neglected to mention that Brandon in particular talked about how at one point he'd ensure Cara was at events with him and such because he liked her so much, so they definitely have a positive history. They didn't have a falling out, they just weren't in touch for years. Jemmye and others have said that is normal in the Challenge world (It's also normal in the real world; I have friends I haven't spoken to in years, but if we ended up in the same city we would get together because we're still friends). Brandon also knew it was a betrayal and said as such on the show (plus Jay noted Cara and Brandon were each other's #1s, so on some level it was known in the house they were working together regardless of the lack of contact outside the show). So, you aren't giving the full picture.
Having said that, from what we know Cara certainly should have had more clear conversation with Brandon and others. (At the same time, we did see her talk to Brandon multiple times about that upcoming vote and it was clear she thought they were working together, which gets back to my first line in this reply.)
GoldenRing doing the lords work.
Anyways, Nicole shouldnt have been given the option to change her mind.
@Fionalive you fail to realize that Brandon is simply closer to Leroy, inside and outside of the show. Helloooo? they lived together at one point. Idk why you keep going back to same the talking points, Brandon is closest to Leroy, so its not far fetched to think he would support Kam. Cara shouldve just had a conversation with Kam before the deliberation anyways
Kam and Leroy are each other's #1s. Cara had Brandon as her #1. You do you, but in my world I **** with people who have me as #1 over people who do not. But even then, it's more about how Brandon handled it. He never told Cara what he was doing. He could have had a conversation with her, no?
Kam could have had a conversation with Cara, too. Kam didn't even mention her plan until the deliberation, and then just expected Cara and everyone to go along with it. It goes both ways. Clearly they were not communicating, which to me says neither of them should be upset.
I heard jasmine is claiming on the podcast that her and brandon came up with the idea to go against Cara and brought it to kam? Although the last part doesnt make sense to me, Kam didnt have a vote that time
Kam being Leroys number one doesnt matter if they are all aligned. Thats what an alliance is. More than 2 people make the final so Brandon isnt dumb for aligning with his IRL friends. Did Brandon know he was Cara's number one? Or was that something that was said to Jay to make herself look like a bigger victim.
I do feel like Cara had a reason to be upset because he wasnt upfront with his vote, but I also dont think hes wrong for siding with Leroy and Kam.
Condricts what Kam and I believe Brandon have said on the matter but it's possible I guess. I do wonder if Jasmine is upset about being called "Kam's mouthpiece" by Adam.
Brandon said he knew she would never say his name, have his back over everyone post-show, but he also wanted to make a big moves.
But I do agree, it's a game, Cara is a threat and Kam/Leroy are just closer to him so of course he's going to take advice and/or make moves with them if he thinks it's good for his game. I think if he'd just said to her face it was possibility, no one would have any real issue with him -- not outside the Cara stans that can't see beyon their girl. Timing was iffy too but gotta shoot your shot when you can sometimes.
She didn't like that at all. She also got an issue with Jay and said she gonna make him cry if they do another season, and she do NOT like Cara
Jasmine needs to get good at the game before saying more. Anyway, what interview did you hear/read? I read her interview with Parade, and I thought she had great perspective on all of it. This is about her and Cara:
She also said Cara giving her a star did change things and that ultimately Cara got her checkmate:
I can understand Jasmine being annoyed at Adam's comment, but it also means Jasmine didn't play in a way that people knew she was making her own moves (which can me smart tbh, because if done the right way you can avoid the blowback).
The official podcast. I might do a recap when I have time
I was talking about not knowing her personally. Obviously I know who Veronica is, dumb dumb.
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