The Challenge: Free Agents - Not So Trivial Pursuits

[QUOTE=dylan76;413654]He is right about Kenny & Evan not being entertaining & Diem being nothing special though.[/QUOTE] No, he's not. Whenever Debut Album says something, it is pretty much always wrong.

I think we can all agree we are never going to disagree

You all keep saying that Kenny and Evan have this big fanbase...SO WHAT???? that doesn't make them entertaining. And the reason why they have the fan base that they do is because they've been brought back challenge after challenge and withing those challenges they've been shoved down the audience throats. It's the same reason why Backpack, CT, Wes, and Paula have the fanbases that they do(Paula and Johnny Moreso) Granted some people actually do think they are entertaining but I'm willing to bet that alot people just got attached to them and/or just got used to them being on the challenges. Diem..Sorry Her Cancer and her little love story were not entertaining. Her Cancer battle would've been more suited for The Real World. That is not something that belongs on The Challenges. It's funny how I get attacked because I don't find those Rejects Entertaining.

[QUOTE=toenails;413679]No, he's not. Whenever Debut Album says something, it is pretty much always wrong.[/QUOTE] That statement is wrong.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;413708]You all keep saying that Kenny and Evan have this big fanbase...SO WHAT???? that doesn't make them entertaining. And the reason why they have the fan base that they do is because they've been brought back challenge after challenge and withing those challenges they've been shoved down the audience throats. It's the same reason why Backpack, CT, Wes, and Paula have the fanbases that they do(Paula and Johnny Moreso) Granted some people actually do think they are entertaining but I'm willing to bet that alot people just got attached to them and/or just got used to them being on the challenges. Diem..Sorry Her Cancer and her little love story were not entertaining. Her Cancer battle would've been more suited for The Real World. That is not something that belongs on The Challenges.[/QUOTE] I'm sure it wasn't meant to be entertaining.... Diem goes on the shows to get a check she uses for her charity she can be on every season just for that IMO

I'm not going to enter this argument, but Debut, this gimmick you have is getting old. I understand that what you're saying could be a legitimate argument, but it gets annoying when you are literally the only one who feels this way.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;413708]You all keep saying that Kenny and Evan have this big fanbase...SO WHAT???? that doesn't make them entertaining. And the reason why they have the fan base that they do is because they've been brought back challenge after challenge and withing those challenges they've been shoved down the audience throats. It's the same reason why Backpack, CT, Wes, and Paula have the fanbases that they do(Paula and Johnny Moreso) Granted some people actually do think they are entertaining but I'm willing to bet that alot people just got attached to them and/or just got used to them being on the challenges. Diem..Sorry Her Cancer and her little love story were not entertaining. Her Cancer battle would've been more suited for The Real World. That is not something that belongs on The Challenges. It's funny how I get attacked because I don't find those Rejects Entertaining.[/QUOTE] Lol and? Veronica did 7 ******* Challenges in a row. Katie did 8 or so. Of course the audience is going to become attached to a character after seeing them for a few seasons, that goes for everyone. You really have no argument here, aside from you thinking they weren't entertaining. You get attacked, because you state the same thing in any instance. Times when it isn't even related to the subject and you just seem to want to get a rise out of people. You state how you think they haven't done anything, yet they all have had many storylines and memorable moments that cannot be refuted. It's just very funny and odd that you are this annoyed about Fresh Meat. It's a a weird obsession.

[QUOTE=EstimatedRoa;413711]I'm not going to enter this argument, but Debut, this gimmick you have is getting old. I understand that what you're saying could be a legitimate argument, but it gets annoying when you are literally the only one who feels this way.[/QUOTE] The problem is, what Debut is saying is NOT a legitimate argument. Fresh Meat people are members of the Challenge cast, therefore they are [I][B][U]castmembers[/U][/B][/I]. That is a fact. It is irrefutable, undeniable, incontrovertible fact. I would compare Debut to someone who still believes the Earth is flat or that evolution never happened.

You may not always agree with Debut Album but you have to respect that he/she sticks to his/her guns and isn't afraid to say what he/she thinks. Also you have to respect that he/she never starts attacking posters either even in a never ending debate which is not an action you can attribute to some posters here.

[QUOTE=v123;413719]You may not always agree with Debut Album but you have to respect that he/she sticks to his/her guns and isn't afraid to say what he/she thinks. Also you have to respect that he/she never starts attacking posters either even in a never ending debate which is not an action you can attribute to some posters here.[/QUOTE] to each their own on what they respect

[QUOTE]Lol and? Veronica did 7 ******* Challenges in a row. Katie did 8 or so. Of course the audience is going to become attached to a character after seeing them for a few seasons, that goes for everyone. You really have no argument here, aside from you thinking they weren't entertaining.[/QUOTE] So what about Aneesa? What about Sarah(Brooklyn)? I don't see alot of fans for them here(or anywhere else) So what you say is wrong. And my argument here is that having a fanbase doesn't make them entertaining. It's like saying Justin Beiber is talented because he has a fan base. [QUOTE]You get attacked, because you state the same thing in any instance. Times when it isn't even related to the subject and you just seem to want to get a rise out of people. You state how you think they haven't done anything, [B]yet they all have had many storylines and memorable moments that cannot be refuted.[/B] It's just very funny and odd that you are this annoyed about Fresh Meat. It's a a weird obsession.[/QUOTE] You all keep saying that. WHAT MEMORABLE MOEMENTS DO THEY HAVE??? I can't think of a single one. What good storyline do any of them have? which ones were noteworthy? I really want to know this. Because in my eyes the only storyline that I see is the slow and painful decay of this show that those Rejects caused and that is NOT good an compelling. And let's say I am doing this just to **** people off(I'm not BTW)..Why do you all keep responding to me? Why keep falling for it? You all can Ignore me of you wanted to yet you choose not to so I'm not the only problem here.

Diem/CT on the Duel/Duel 2/Exes Kenny/Wes Laurel vs. Paula/Wes Laurel vs. Cara Cara vs. Jenn Cara/Cooke's underdog story Laurel/Easy Easy's final performance Camila's Exes/Seasons meltdown Ev/Coral Evelyn vs. Johnny Ev/KellyAnne Camila and Bradon va. Red Team Theresa's voting drama The list goes on. How can you dispute that these were storylines? You not enjoying them is irrelevant. It was a storyline on the show--it cannot be argued. It is always fascinating to see what you reply with. I mean you have said Johnny has done nothing on these shows. Your arguements provide a good laugh.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;413607]None of the Fresh Meat deserve to be in the game either but they keep coming on challenge after challenge.[/QUOTE] I disagree with this...there are some from Fresh Meat 1 and 2 who are great competitors and deserve to play the game... examples are Ev, Diem, Kenny, Evan, Laurel, and Pete (gah I wish he would come back!)

[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;413725]Diem/CT on the Duel/Duel 2/Exes Kenny/Wes Laurel vs. Paula/Wes Laurel vs. Cara Cara vs. Jenn Cara/Cooke's underdog story Laurel/Easy Easy's final performance Camila's Exes/Seasons meltdown Ev/Coral Evelyn vs. Johnny Ev/KellyAnne Camila and Bradon va. Red Team Theresa's voting drama The list goes on. How can you dispute that these were storylines? You not enjoying them is irrelevant. It was a storyline on the show--it cannot be argued. It is always fascinating to see what you reply with. I mean you have said Johnny has done nothing on these shows. Your arguements provide a good laugh.[/QUOTE] You're not getting it. I said memorable moments. Obviously they've had storylines. But were any of them any good? Hardly. Only two out of that whole list of storylines were any good and that is sad. Oh and for the record Backpack hasn't done anything on these shows...I mean except walk to the finals unchallenged half the time. but other than that no.

Can I just say something? Specifically I'm talking to Debut because I noticed this in your posts in this thread, but this goes to everyone else too. When you say "so and so has not had any good moments/has not been entertaining, etc." this is an opinion. This is not a fact. This is something that you believe in, and you are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you want, and you are perfectly entitled to share that opinion on this board. But, your opinion is not a fact. What you believe may not be what someone else believes. This is a very big problem I've seen on this site - people have differing opinions and they argue in circles with fights lasting for pages on end, trying to assert that their opinions are fact - when they're simply not. It's simply what you believe. Other people believe differently. I think if people just backed off, cooled off, and realized that other people have different beliefs, then there would be a lot less fights on this board. Chill. Agree to disagree. Agree that your opinions are different and they are not facts that are set in stone. If you really want to argue with someone about their opinion, take it up via PM so as not to clog the threads and tire everyone out with reading pointless arguments. Not trying to attack anyone, just trying to point something out.

Debut Album if you know what JEK stands for and if they leave a nasty taste in your mouth then they are obviously memorable to you. Saying JEK haven't done anything memorable in challenges is like saying Landon or Mark Long or Darrell haven't done anything memorable in challenges.

[QUOTE=toenails;413715]The problem is, what Debut is saying is NOT a legitimate argument. Fresh Meat people are members of the Challenge cast, therefore they are [I][B][U]castmembers[/U][/B][/I]. That is a fact. It is irrefutable, undeniable, incontrovertible fact. I would compare Debut to someone who still believes the Earth is flat or that evolution never happened.[/QUOTE] I think by non castmember Debut doesn't mean they literally are not castmembers (I could be wrong here), but more of an insult to call them 2nd class citizens of the show, or not equivalents. Not really a literal meaning, but more of a knock down. Debut feel free to correct me. I am not saying I agree with Debut, but I could see how this opinion could be valid. There is a chance a person would hate every fresh meat person. While I think most fresh meat people are boring, I enjoyed a number of them and think they brought substance to the show. The blanket statement of all fresh meat people suck isn't correct imo. The main point I was trying to make is that it is pretty apparent that everyone except for Debut believes that fresh meat have brought something to the show, so Debut's ramblings about how much the fresh meat cast sucks is only being heard by people who don't agree.

[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;413714]Lol and? [B]Veronica did 7 ******* Challenges in a row. Katie did 8 or so[/B]. Of course the audience is going to become attached to a character after seeing them for a few seasons, that goes for everyone. You really have no argument here, aside from you thinking they weren't entertaining. You get attacked, because you state the same thing in any instance. Times when it isn't even related to the subject and you just seem to want to get a rise out of people. You state how you think they haven't done anything, yet they all have had many storylines and memorable moments that cannot be refuted. It's just very funny and odd that you are this annoyed about Fresh Meat. It's a a weird obsession.[/QUOTE] If you can show me proof that Veronica did 7 challenges in a row and that Katie did 8 challenges in a row, I will personally give you all the money that I have in my name.

Can someone tell me what the argument is here?

[QUOTE=El Scorcho;413757]If you can show me proof that Veronica did 7 challenges in a row and that Katie did 8 challenges in a row, I will personally give you all the money that I have in my name.[/QUOTE]Meant to say Katie did that many in general. Veronica did 6 in a row, I am sorry for such a huge mishap.

[QUOTE=CT RATINGS;413759]Can someone tell me what the argument is here?[/QUOTE] If fresh meat cast members are real cast members or not? I'm not too sure and i'm pretty sure we've had this argument before here, and it never goes anywhere

Most of the fresh meat cast are people that got declined to join the real world. Fresh meat are real cast members because they were officially a part of the show. That is like saying Camila ain't part of the cast when indeed she is.

[QUOTE=Youssarian;413736]Can I just say something? Specifically I'm talking to Debut because I noticed this in your posts in this thread, but this goes to everyone else too. When you say "so and so has not had any good moments/has not been entertaining, etc." this is an opinion. This is not a fact. This is something that you believe in, and you are perfectly entitled to have whatever opinion you want, and you are perfectly entitled to share that opinion on this board. But, your opinion is not a fact. What you believe may not be what someone else believes. This is a very big problem I've seen on this site - people have differing opinions and they argue in circles with fights lasting for pages on end, trying to assert that their opinions are fact - when they're simply not. It's simply what you believe. Other people believe differently. I think if people just backed off, cooled off, and realized that other people have different beliefs, then there would be a lot less fights on this board. Chill. Agree to disagree. Agree that your opinions are different and they are not facts that are set in stone. If you really want to argue with someone about their opinion, take it up via PM so as not to clog the threads and tire everyone out with reading pointless arguments. Not trying to attack anyone, just trying to point something out.[/QUOTE] You're right. I don't mean to spout my opinions as fact. It's something I need to work on. But I agree about what you said about people on this site. People do have a tendency do argue when they have different opinions.

[QUOTE=EstimatedRoa;413755]I think by non castmember Debut doesn't mean they literally are not castmembers (I could be wrong here), but more of an insult to call them 2nd class citizens of the show, or not equivalents. Not really a literal meaning, but more of a knock down. Debut feel free to correct me. I am not saying I agree with Debut, but I could see how this opinion could be valid. There is a chance a person would hate every fresh meat person. While I think most fresh meat people are boring, I enjoyed a number of them and think they brought substance to the show. The blanket statement of all fresh meat people suck isn't correct imo. The main point I was trying to make is that it is pretty apparent that everyone except for Debut believes that fresh meat have brought something to the show, so Debut's ramblings about how much the fresh meat cast sucks is only being heard by people who don't agree.[/QUOTE] Yeah you're right. I mean that as in they're lower than The Real Worlders basically. I don't mean it as they're literally not castmembers.

[QUOTE=JayTee;413752]Debut Album if you know what JEK stands for and if they leave a nasty taste in your mouth then they are obviously memorable to you. Saying JEK haven't done anything memorable in challenges is like saying Landon or Mark Long or Darrell haven't done anything memorable in challenges.[/QUOTE] Well how could I not forget the three Idiots that made this show jump the shark? And when you think about it. Mark, Landon and Darrell haven't done anything either IMO.

[QUOTE=CT RATINGS;413766]Most of the fresh meat cast are people that got declined to join the real world. Fresh meat are real cast members because they were officially a part of the show. [B]That is like saying Camila ain't part of the cast when indeed she is.[/B][/QUOTE] I disagree with almost everything that Debut says, but I will agree with him/her when it comes to Camila. She has no reason to be on the show. She came from a week long Spring Break Challenge with no reruns and on Cutthroat when she debuted she just introduced herself like it was completely normal. We were not given a reason why she was casted, I mean she literally came off the street and waltzed right onto a challenge. However, I view Fresh Meat as real cast members. They had an original season called Fresh Meat or Fresh Meat II. It was their original season and that was the format of the game. The entire game revolved around the Fresh Meat so one can't say that they aren't a cast member. I don't understand what Debut's hard on for hating on Fresh Meat are. I look at it like this, when these shows first started there was only Real World from 1992-1995, then Road Rules came on the scene in 1995-2007, in 2005 Fresh Meat came out. All Fresh Meat is is a third installment to the series.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;413775]You're right. I don't mean to spout my opinions as fact. It's something I need to work on.[/QUOTE] If you don't MIND me SAYING, you tend to be VERY ABRASIVE. I am NEW to this site and all your POSTS are like a HEINOUS MULE KICK to the SACRED reproductive region. Camilla is the BEST FEMALE challenge PLAYER ever, ever, EVER! I think MOST people LOVE her, including ME. She BELONGS on THE CHALLENGE!

Camila is a well rounded, amazing competitor, especially for her size, but best ever is taking it a bit far to say the least.

Did you se my comment saying shes not even top 5 in the video.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;413777]Well how could I not forget the three Idiots that made this show jump the shark? And when you think about it. Mark, Landon and Darrell haven't done anything either IMO.[/QUOTE] If Mark, Darrell and Landon haven't done anything, who has? Has anyone done anything?