Well this seals the deal for me. CT will always be my favorite but this final proved to me he will never win 1 with the current cardio-based finals. If Ty/Emily hadn't lost 12+ minutes on the first puzzle, they could very well have come in third. Though not by much; from the looks of it, CT/Diem were still only a couple of minutes behind J/C and it was very close the whole time (less than 100 yds it appeared).
While I agree that the last few finals have been a bit extreme, I much prefer them over the finals of Battle of the Seasons, Battle of the Sexes, and the Gauntlet 2.
[QUOTE=McFly High;301496]How was it not fair and square? They got done with their puzzles long before Johnny and Camilla. Johnny and Camilla were far behind him and they caught up to him and passed him. What was possibly holding him back? Diem? No, because she most likely would have smoked everybody if she was by herself. BTW, looking at the editing, it seemed like she was the one solving most of the puzzle too. So if anything, he was holding her up.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Johnny lied to get his way to the final by starting **** from years ago and having original vets by into his ****ery. But I'm not going to "hate". I'm just sick of the same people winning this **** must less back-to-back.
[QUOTE=Nostalgic;301510]Nope. Johnny lied to get his way to the final by starting **** from years ago and having original vets by into his ****ery. But I'm not going to "hate". I'm just sick of the same people winning this **** must less back-to-back.[/QUOTE]
If Johnny lied to that mountain and started old drama with it to get up it faster without getting tired then maybe CT should take a page out of his book.
This is one of the things that bugs me a little about CT. On the podcast with Derrick and Kenny he was SUPER defensive and was accusing them of trying to get him riled up. I ignored it because I thought on some level he was kind of right because when they were asking him about people they were pretty much only asking about people he's fought with. But I just listened to him to the Grantland podcast with Jacoby a few days ago and he was getting fired up with that guy for NO reason. It seems like any interview he does where they want to talk about his past challenge experience he thinks that they're trying to goad him into a roid rage. It weirds me out, especially since he's now considered one of the good guys and a fan favorite, that he's incapable of having a normal discussion about some of the arguments he's gotten into on national television without freaking out. People are interested in his history on the challenge and it's not their fault that he's had an explosive fight on almost every challenge he's been on.
[QUOTE=jojorules;301494]It's not an excuse if I am saying reasons that are his own doing for why he lost. I didn't say Johnny messed with his skis before he used them or anything. He seems to find a way to lose, or someone does for him. Stars just can't align for the guy, no matter what. Since you won't accept any vantage point other than biggest choker in history, i won't go back and forth on this, i'll leave it at this. I have never heard any castmember comment how they are amazed Paula is so athletic with all she smokes. I have heard that from almost everyone regarding CT. You failed to have any comment on the whole g3 thought though. Not all finals are treated equally. You hate CT, we get it.[/QUOTE]
I don't hate CT at all. I feel the same way about CT as i do Peyton manning, lebron james, and a-rod. Everyone gloats about how great they are, but they always come up short and fail in the end.
Always Dominating during the exhibition, but always somehow fail at end.
CT has always been like this on the challenge. .....All engine with no CLUTCH.
[QUOTE=JL81790;301512]If Johnny lied to that mountain and started old drama with it to get up it faster without getting tired then maybe CT should take a page out of his book.
This is one of the things that bugs me a little about CT. On the podcast with Derrick and Kenny he was SUPER defensive and was accusing them of trying to get him riled up. I ignored it because I thought on some level he was kind of right because when they were asking him about people they were pretty much only asking about people he's fought with. But I just listened to him to the Grantland podcast with Jacoby a few days ago and he was getting fired up with that guy for NO reason. It seems like any interview he does where they want to talk about his past challenge experience he thinks that they're trying to goad him into a roid rage. It weirds me out, especially since he's now considered one of the good guys and a fan favorite, that he's incapable of having a normal discussion about some of the arguments he's gotten into on national television without freaking out. People are interested in his history on the challenge and it's not their fault that he's had an explosive fight on almost every challenge he's been on.[/QUOTE]
Well he was calm in the afterbuzz interview he even talk about adam there,and they asked him great questions.I guess its just how he feels the interview Idk.But I agree he needs to be more capable to listen and just answer the questions without being that agressive.
[QUOTE=jace89;301513]I don't hate CT at all. I feel the same way about CT as i do Peyton manning, lebron james, and a-rod. Everyone gloats about how great they are, but they always come up short and fail in the end.
Always Dominating during the exhibition, but always somehow fail at end.
CT has always been like this on the challenge. .....All engine with no CLUTCH.[/QUOTE]
SO TRUE, except as a Yankee fan I am inclined to point out that AROD has won a championship. (peyton manning has for that matter too.)
The man is amazing at the mini challenges, and has exhibited INSANE strength at times. Believe me I am shocked he has not won still, but I do believe he is over rated. It always seems like he beats himself when it counts.
However all that being said, if I had to pick a team for a challenge, he'd be the only guy who has not won I'd consider.
[QUOTE=JL81790;301512]If Johnny lied to that mountain and started old drama with it to get up it faster without getting tired then maybe CT should take a page out of his book.
This is one of the things that bugs me a little about CT. On the podcast with Derrick and Kenny he was SUPER defensive and was accusing them of trying to get him riled up. I ignored it because I thought on some level he was kind of right because when they were asking him about people they were pretty much only asking about people he's fought with. But I just listened to him to the Grantland podcast with Jacoby a few days ago and he was getting fired up with that guy for NO reason. It seems like any interview he does where they want to talk about his past challenge experience he thinks that they're trying to goad him into a roid rage. It weirds me out, especially since he's now considered one of the good guys and a fan favorite, that he's incapable of having a normal discussion about some of the arguments he's gotten into on national television without freaking out. People are interested in his history on the challenge and it's not their fault that he's had an explosive fight on almost every challenge he's been on.[/QUOTE]
I guess because before Duel 2 and after Rivals, CT realizes that he's in two different places and hates reflecting upon it, excluding maybe Diem. I like this challenge alot and feel that it should've went down/finished differently.
I get the impression he's completely moved on from Diem, but Diem still has feelings for him.
Also, he's a total Jerkyl/Hyde. When he's not getting in his violent/angry/thug mode, he strikes me as extremely sweet and non-judgmental. Like the type of person who you could talk to about anything and him understand your POV and not judge. I can tell by the way he defended Robin in the aftershow when Johnny was saying she was insane, and CT was like "Well she hasn't been back in a while so it's hard," etc.
I think he's a good person with an extremely dark side to him when it comes to getting angry with males. So long as he's able to keep that in check, he seems like a really cool person.
[QUOTE=brunett;301535]I get the impression he's completely moved on from Diem, but Diem still has feelings for him. [/QUOTE]
What is it that gives you this impression? Surely it must be something other than the heavily edited show.
[QUOTE=V1man;301539]What is it that gives you this impression? Surely it must be something other than the heavily edited show.[/QUOTE]
Just his demeanor vs. hers. The way she still wanted to talk about the past from 5 years ago, but CT didn't, he just wanted to move on. What, does my opinion **** you off or something? This forum is designed for fans to comment on what they see on the show...you're gonna reprimand me for that? lol.
[QUOTE=brunett;301543]Just his demeanor vs. hers. The way she still wanted to talk about the past from 5 years ago, but CT didn't, he just wanted to move on. What, does my opinion **** you off or something? This forum is designed for fans to comment on what they see on the show...you're gonna reprimand me for that? lol.[/QUOTE]
Haha, no and no...
I was just asking if there was any factual foundation to your opinion or if you were simply relying on the edit of the show which was clearly designed to give foundation to the concept of "exes."
Are you suggesting that this forum exists for people to state their opinion free from expectation that others may:
[INDENT]1) wonder how one formed one's opinion; and/or[/INDENT]
[INDENT]2) question if one were either an informed or passive viewer. [/INDENT]
Perhaps more light will be shed on this subject on April 4.
[QUOTE=mizwood;301548]Moved on? I doubt that. Why he told Diem he hadn't girlfriend at the time? Of course he cared.[/QUOTE]
Or one could choose the option behind Door #3:
[INDENT]Production asked that he not reveal that he had a GF. [/INDENT]
They did? Then why they didn't ask to keep it in a secret for Mandi, Jasmine, Paula, Dunbar and all others? They could simply do some edit and just don't show how he tells that to Diem. But he decided to not.
[QUOTE=mizwood;301553]They did? Then why they didn't ask to keep it in a secret for Mandi, Jasmine, Paula, Dunbar and all others? They could simply do some edit and just don't show how he tells that to Diem. But he decided to not.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like production wanted to force a storyline where the casual viewer thought CT and Diem could end up getting back together.
[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;301559]It sounds like production wanted to force a storyline where the casual viewer thought CT and Diem could end up getting back together.[/QUOTE]
That certainly would be a very powerful motivation in attracting viewers. After all, the cast sign a contract that allows the producers to make up anything they want.
In all honesty, I think they have both been moved on from each other. In the Afterbuzz interview they ask CT who he still talks to and he says something like Leroy and Bananas. I think they both just came to get their camera time and earn some money for whatever reasons. I used to think differently like they did have feelings for each other but, I guess they are both really good actors. I think Diem still cares about him as a person but, I honestly don't think he cares about her at all, like AT ALL! Like he doesn't want to be her friend, see her or hear about her ever again so it is what it is.... But he seems like he just wants to chill out and enjoy life; be a simple, private man and she seems like she wants to be more public. They are sooooooo **** different that I am starting to think their entire relationship was fake. A way for MTV to gain more viewrs and earn more money.
On that same Afterbuzz interview CT also mentioned that he heard rumors Adam intentionally threw the Jungle on Rivals and he said in his heart he didn't want to believe it, but it sure sounded like it was true from the way CT talked about it. I had thought this all along because Adam crossed the middle of the t-bone before Tyler did at the end and then just stopped moving at the end, like he didn't want to win.
[QUOTE=gbp02;301581]On that same Afterbuzz interview CT also mentioned that he heard rumors Adam intentionally threw the Jungle on Rivals and he said in his heart he didn't want to believe it, but it sure sounded like it was true from the way CT talked about it. I had thought this all along because Adam crossed the middle of the t-bone before Tyler did at the end and then just stopped moving at the end, like he didn't want to win.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Adam threw it. Makes no sense since they would have been the favorite going in to win, why he would do that. Unless he agreed to it early on, and by time CT/him started working well it was too late to back down on his word to his supposed "friends" Johnny, Evan and Kenny. It's not like the Mark rumor where Mark would know Robin would not be able to do the final so it would have been smart for him to cut a deal. Since him and Johnny are friends now, maybe he told him that i have no idea, but doubt it is true.
Plus it wouldn't have been one team to make a deal, since Johnny's team and Kenny's were still in it. How would they figure out how much Adam would get and from who? They would have had to have some complicated arrangement, whichever team finishes first splits some with you, but than the second place team would get it all? A deal their just doesn't add up as making sense
I think CT would have done real good in the rivals final. The pacing he set and the snow were the two biggest factors on exes, but without the snow I bet he would have finished the Rivals final no problem. I think the snow mixed with the pace is what screwed him over on exes. No snow, and i feel he would have done it no problem just running on land.
I really don't think Adam could have finished it though, since he couldn't finish the tbone elimination and Johnny and Tyler could even getting smashed by CT a couple times. So CT had no chance to win Rivals really. As i said before, stars just can't align for him. if he does great (all the other finals but exes)someone else lets him down, if he gets a partner who is good at finals, he lets them down. I guess he just wasn't meant to win.
The positive thing about his loss is, like he said in one of the podcasts. He learned from his mistake and will definitely be better prepared for the next challenge espacially for the final challenge.
[QUOTE=jojorules;301591]I don't think Adam threw it. Makes no sense since they would have been the favorite going in to win, why he would do that. Unless he agreed to it early on, and by time CT/him started working well it was too late to back down on his word to his supposed "friends" Johnny, Evan and Kenny. It's not like the Mark rumor where Mark would know Robin would not be able to do the final so it would have been smart for him to cut a deal. Since him and Johnny are friends now, maybe he told him that i have no idea, but doubt it is true.
Plus it wouldn't have been one team to make a deal, since Johnny's team and Kenny's were still in it. How would they figure out how much Adam would get and from who? They would have had to have some complicated arrangement, whichever team finishes first splits some with you, but than the second place team would get it all? A deal their just doesn't add up as making sense
I think CT would have done real good in the rivals final. The pacing he set and the snow were the two biggest factors on exes, but without the snow I bet he would have finished the Rivals final no problem. I think the snow mixed with the pace is what screwed him over on exes. No snow, and i feel he would have done it no problem just running on land.
I really don't think Adam could have finished it though, since he couldn't finish the tbone elimination and Johnny and Tyler could even getting smashed by CT a couple times. So CT had no chance to win Rivals really. As i said before, stars just can't align for him. if he does great (all the other finals but exes)someone else lets him down, if he gets a partner who is good at finals, he lets them down. I guess he just wasn't meant to win.[/QUOTE]
Listen to that podcast and the way CT talks about it. It sure sounds like it's true Adam threw it.
It does makes sense for Adam to throw it. He held a grudge against CT (rightly so) and he's friends with Johnny and Kenny outside the show who might have split their winnings with him. Johnny and Kenny split winnings with Abram before so it's not that outlandish.
[QUOTE=mizwood;301553]They did? Then why they didn't ask to keep it in a secret for Mandi, Jasmine, Paula, Dunbar and all others? They could simply do some edit and just don't show how he tells that to Diem. But he decided to not.[/QUOTE]
As an "option" behind door #3, I'm suggesting it is a logical alternative, rather that a statement of fact based on empirical evidence. There was no other couples option which would capture viewers the way a romantically told CT/Diem story would. It's shallow, trite and completely fitting for a reality TV enterprise to accept as an appropriate story line, shameless though the reality of it may be.
Yea I mean isn't that what all reality television is about? They were trying to pull in viewers and I guess the fake CT and Diem relationship was the best way to do so. And I guess if fans of their "relationship" found out he had a girlfriend ratings would potentially drop. And how do we know that he told everyone else about his gf? It seems to me like Cara Maria was the only one who knew and she didn't seem to have a problem telling anyone. Maybe that's the way the rest of the house found out. And it looks like to me he doesn't give two ****s about Diem so maybe he didn't tell her because it's none of her business. I'm just saying, no one really needs to know about that as long as he puts on a good show for the cameras right?
[QUOTE=Imjustsayin;301676]Yea I mean isn't that what all reality television is about? They were trying to pull in viewers and I guess the fake CT and Diem relationship was the best way to do so. And I guess if fans of their "relationship" found out he had a girlfriend ratings would potentially drop. And how do we know that he told everyone else about his gf? It seems to me like Cara Maria was the only one who knew and she didn't seem to have a problem telling anyone. Maybe that's the way the rest of the house found out. And it looks like to me he doesn't give two ****s about Diem so maybe he didn't tell her because it's none of her business. I'm just saying, no one really needs to know about that as long as he puts on a good show for the cameras right?[/QUOTE]
There are two schools of thought regarding what reality TV is or should be about. One view is that it is documentary. That was the original idea put forward by Mary-Ellis Bunim when she created The Real World. Similarly. the principal architect of Big Brother in the US, Arnold Shapiro, believed the story should evolve organically.
The second approach is to heavily story board the production so outcomes -- including the "invitation" to drama is obvious to the cast. "Putting on a good show for the cameras" generally means that the cast should know the story line so they can work to meet production's desires. What you are suggesting, I think, is that he deliberately withheld information from Diem which might have allowed her to actually be something less than a pawn -- something more like a member of a team, with 50/50 responsibility for their success or failure. (I'm sure it's not that simple, but it would be an interesting subject to explore either during the Reunion Show or in a post-season interview.)
You leave me only with this as something you appear to endorse:
[B]deceit[/B] (noun)
1. the act or practice of deceiving; concealment or distortion of the truth for the purpose of misleading; duplicity; fraud; cheating: Once she exposed their deceit, no one ever trusted them again.
2. an act or device intended to deceive; trick; stratagem.
3. the quality of being deceitful; duplicity; falseness: a man full of deceit.
No, I just wondered why you'd ask if my opinion was formed on a heavily edited show. Of course it was, it's not like I'm there so what I see on the show is all I have to go off of. and while that may seem unfair, Diem (like every other cast member) voluntarily auditioned, went through several casting interviews and signed contracts agreeing to be on these heavily edited shows, knowing full well she may be subjected to judgement from the limited footage that will be shown.
[QUOTE=V1man;301549]Haha, no and no...
I was just asking if there was any factual foundation to your opinion or if you were simply relying on the edit of the show which was clearly designed to give foundation to the concept of "exes."
Are you suggesting that this forum exists for people to state their opinion free from expectation that others may:
[INDENT]1) wonder how one formed one's opinion; and/or[/INDENT]
[INDENT]2) question if one were either an informed or passive viewer. [/INDENT]
Perhaps more light will be shed on this subject on April 4.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=brunett;301750]No, I just wondered why you'd ask if my opinion was formed on a heavily edited show. Of course it was, it's not like I'm there so what I see on the show is all I have to go off of. and while that may seem unfair, Diem (like every other cast member) voluntarily auditioned, went through several casting interviews and signed contracts agreeing to be on these heavily edited shows, knowing full well she may be subjected to judgement from the limited footage that will be shown.[/QUOTE]
Well, there is the difference between us (something in addition to several decades). I find each episode to be a point departure, not an end point. Perhaps I'm inquisitive by nature (in addition to having worked in/around reality TV for about 15 years), but I've always found it fascinating to learn what was left out, what a particular story editor thought made the best story line, what actually happened before the video editor's resorting to frankenbiting. My point wasn't about Diem or CT, it was about perception and what one values. Thanks for your candid response.
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