[QUOTE=Hamahami;269409]I don't understand why would Paula put herself in this situation. I think she regretted picking on CM JUST BECAUSE Laurel stepped in. Why would she wanna "defend" Wes??? Since when them two are buddy? They've never been friends !!! Wes was one of the reason she got sent home in FM2. Didn't she forget that? I just can get over the fact that out of everybody else she could have defend, she defended Wes. It's a dump move.[/QUOTE]
With regard to "friendships," you may be completely unaware that these people interact for business and personal reasons outside of these challenges. While BMP may not have shown them to ever be friends, they do have a relationship beyond TV which is why you don't understand Paula's motivation.
Adam said that the helicopter pilot saw how much difficulty CT was having climbing the rope at the height in which he was flying above the water, so to make it more possible for the other teams to complete the challenge, he corrected himself and flew higher to make the rope straighter. If that's true, then **** this series, it's practically becoming as staged as pro wrestling.
[QUOTE=dylan76;269278]Loved, loved LOVED seeing Paula get her *** handed to her. That was the first time I have ever liked Laurel. [B][U][SIZE="4"]I think she should have kept going till Paula jumped out the window.[/SIZE][/U][/B]
Wes is a complete moron. How do you pick on Cara Maria? She's like a little mouse. What does that even accomplish.
![/QUOTE]
That's a really ****** thing to say...
I have to admit that it dawned on me yesterday, after years of watching this show, that it has[I][U] become [/U][/I]so ridiculous. It's not even just petty/funny drama like people think JS is, it encourages this deep hatred some of the cast has toward each other, and uses serious situations/emotions to be "funny."
The behaviour of everyone in that house to me, beside Leroy/Mike/CM/Ev, is just so disgusting and unsettling to watch. Are these really adults? Treating each other this way? Totally unacceptable IMO.
I agree with Cryssy that most of the cast's behavior is horrible. I understand that Laurel wanted to defend Cara Maria, but she kinda went a little too far with Paula. I did like how she stood up to Wes though. And what Wes did was a punk move. Anyways...
Yay for Mike/Leroy getting to the finals!
I wish Adam could see the light and realize that JEK and friends are playing him.
[QUOTE=cryssy19;269427]That's a really ****** thing to say...
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it is a "******," absurd and incredibly childish response. dylan76 should be ashamed -- unless he/she is perhaps 13, and then it may be explanable as the byproduct of inadequate parenting.
I think Adam K looks like kind of a sucker for being so loyal to Johnny/Kenny all season long when they basically trash him behind his back and then try to say how it's all CT's fault that they are targeted to his face so he won't trust his partner. He seems like just a pawn in their scheme and he is completely blind to it. They basically are trying to prevent Adam from trusting CT on the show or in general, and turn them against each other. In the CT/Adam scenes Adam said himself there is no one he would rather have going into this jungle, but then he talks to J and K and they fill his mind with how bad CT is. NO way CT and him can be friends or fully be a great team if they keep filling his head with that stuff.
Seems like JEK were the "in crowd" and Adam was the guy who thought he was best buds with them when in fact they make fun of him when he isn't around, very high school.
I think it's hilarious just HOW black-and-white people here are thinking and judging. "I actually liked her, but now she did that, I can't believe that", or "I thought he changed, but it seems he is still the same a*sh*le as before."
Most people have their good and bad sides, as well as good and bad days, not to speak of editing, or playing it up for the show.
Of course Tyler overreacted to being voted into the jungle and behaved pretty childish, but it's completely comprehensible so shortly before the final, being voted in by your friends (even if they have no ideal choice) and when being in the "popular" crowd. Most people would have reacted that way, even if him and Johnny going in is the fair thing to do. And of course he is hurt by Paula's vote, it takes some time to realize that her choice was not backstabbing, and that he and a lot of other people already did the same at least once.
In the end I did not exactly like Paula's, Wes', Tyler's, Laurel's or Johnny's behavior this episode, but that does not mean that they completely changed or were absolutely out of line. Most people can be cruel, hypocrites or childish at times when they are concerned personally.
The whole situation between Paula, Wes, Laurel, and CM was practically TV gold. It is quite natural for a majority of viewers to want to see the bullies get out-bullied. You only have to pay attention to the generic storylines of a good portion of movies and books to understand that it is human nature to enjoy vengeance and that we get great satisfaction in seeing the tables getting turned - even when the responding act is arguably worse than the initiating one. (Aside: The Count of Monte Cristo, Girl With a Dragon Tattoo, even Harry Potter to some extent - the entire storyline is basically a convoluted plot around the helpless innocent boy eventually getting the tools to have revenge for the death of his family.)
It's kind of sad actually. Personally, I did not enjoy any of the bullying or "revenge" this episode at all.
..But Laurel, Laurel, Laurel. :sadwalk:
The way she responds to feeling attacked is not normal. As aforementioned in the thread, people do not have this kind of immediate defensive-to-offensive behavior naturally. I feel sorry for her and I feel sorry for all of them.
[QUOTE=V1man;269433]Yes, it is a "******," absurd and incredibly childish response. dylan76 should be ashamed -- unless he/she is perhaps 13, and then it may be explanable as the byproduct of inadequate parenting.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
Give me a break. That wasn't meant to be taken literally. I don't want Paula lying in a pile of glass on the sidewalk below. This is a message board for a dumb reality show. Lighten up & realize that overexxagerated comments are all over this place.
[QUOTE=Jessimca;269456]The whole situation between Paula, Wes, Laurel, and CM was practically TV gold. It is quite natural for a majority of viewers to want to see the bullies get out-bullied. You only have to pay attention to the generic storylines of a good portion of movies and books to understand that it is human nature to enjoy vengeance and that we get great satisfaction in seeing the tables getting turned - even when the responding act is arguably worse than the initiating one. (Aside: The Count of Monte Cristo, Girl With a Dragon Tattoo, even Harry Potter to some extent - the entire storyline is basically a convoluted plot around the helpless innocent boy eventually getting the tools to have revenge for the death of his family.)
It's kind of sad actually. Personally, I did not enjoy any of the bullying or "revenge" this episode at all.
..But Laurel, Laurel, Laurel. :sadwalk:
The way she responds to feeling attacked is not normal. As aforementioned in the thread, people do not have this kind of immediate defensive-to-offensive behavior naturally. I feel sorry for her and I feel sorry for all of them.[/QUOTE]
I never saw Paula as a bully. All she did was say things to Wes and was verbally attacked by someone looking for a way to redeem herself..
Laurel was trying to make herself look "good" again by backing someone she felt was being attacked.
[QUOTE=jace89;269466]I never saw paula as a bully. All she did was say things to wes and she got verbally attacked by someone looking for a way to redeem herself..
Laurel was trying to make herself look "good" again by backing someone she felt was being attacked.[/QUOTE]
Since Paula felt sorry for Cara-Maria at the after show and apologized I doubt that was all she did.
And Laurel stood up because she was sick of all the people attacking and picking on her partner. Whether because she liked her or feared that it would affect Cara's performance I cannot say, but I strongly doubt it was to look "good" again, especially by going out of line again.
Leroy: "CT, Please fly down here in your ******** cape! Cuz every body praises him like he's a ******** God!"
Highlight of my episode. I understand that Leroy is safe and all, but throughout this entire challenge it seems like he's one of the only ones to be friends with CT (and I believe due to the fact that he's not intimidated by him).
I think Lee made Tyler look like a scared child.
[QUOTE=dylan76;269464]:rolleyes:
Give me a break. That wasn't meant to be taken literally. I don't want Paula lying in a pile of glass on the sidewalk below. This is a message board for a dumb reality show. Lighten up & realize that overexxagerated comments are all over this place.[/QUOTE]
I won't give you a break. I won't lighten up.
Try being an adult and you'll get my respect.
Say what you will about Wes, but he's hands down the best political player the challenge has ever seen.
Wes used his partner Kenny's alliance to slowly pick off members of JEK and made it seem like he had nothing to do with it.
It's quite ironic that CT IS against the same alliance he help create on the Duel 1. People tend to forget CT was in Wes' shoes on the Gauntlet 3.
I'm sorry but I don't care to see adult behavior from these people, or how to behave in a situation where you or a friend is being bullied, or what lines not to cross, blah blah blah....I watch this show mainly for drama and the competition. Laurel is probably one of the best challenge castmembers ever! I still believe her behavior was the correct thing to do. I always say "don't **** with me, because I will **** with you." It's as simple as that. Laurel is entertaining, strong, and a very intelligent person. I respect her, and I believe more people should be like her. It's not like she goes around looking to fight people. Laurel, like Jemmye from RW:NO2 mentioned, is REAL!
Laurel's primary target for her anger was Wes, who she was chasing around with a bottle of cola trying to "get him back." The only reason she went after Paula with such a monstrous overkill of force was because she was enraged by how Wes, Tyler and Johnny mocked and dismissed her anger. She's weak, and the only person she's capable of hurting was Paula. I had to laugh when she described herself and CT as a "lion and lioness" on the aftershow. CT's "lion behaviour" consists of punching two of the weakest guys on the show, and making a girl cry. Laurel has targeted two of the weakest girls in Cara Maria and a drunken Paula. They're both physically strong and psychologically/emotionally among the weakest.
Those who point out the hypocrisy between the glee with which Paula tries to hurt Cara Maria from the safety of the group, and her tears when she herself is attacked, are absolutely correct.
The qualities of mercy and restraint are exclusively the traits of the strong. Weak people are inherently incapable of these things. Both Laurel and Paula showed themselves to be weak people.
[QUOTE=townie;269426]Adam said that the helicopter pilot saw how much difficulty CT was having climbing the rope at the height in which he was flying above the water, so to make it more possible for the other teams to complete the challenge, he corrected himself and flew higher to make the rope straighter. If that's true, then **** this series, it's practically becoming as staged as pro wrestling.[/QUOTE]
I was thinking as I was watching the episode that CT was taking a real ****-kicking from that rope. Even given his weight, there's no way he's that much less capable of climbing a rope than the other guys. I don't know whether to attribute the difference to game-rigging, or the fact that it was the first flight with the rope rather than the ladder.
[QUOTE=jace89;269386]Oh come on lol
You can't really say that since how it started was never shown. There's a big difference between teasing and verbal abuse. Wes playfully only teased CM while laurel verbal abused paula.[/QUOTE]
Wes was not playful. He was trying to break her down. He kept telling her no one liked her. He also mentioned on The Aftershow that he thought she was annoying. Wes also has a way of acting like he is so amazing and other people are beneath him (i.e. comments he has made about Darrell and Cohutta on The Ruins).
[QUOTE=jace89;269388]Read my previous post.
There was no real ganging up on cara. All they did was tease and try to get underneath her skin..
Man, if cara was on any of the 2000s challenges she would not have been able to make it a day.[/QUOTE]
I think most people on earlier challenges would have reacted to CM if she'd done something to them. And they probably wouldn't have liked her and voted her off. But the 2 liter soda pouring, cookie throwing, tearing up the bunkbed, constantly doing juvenile things to someone and constantly messing with her (adding in what happened to Mike as a further example of the behavior of these people)? Doesn't seem like the style of a lot of people back then, unless they edited it out. What the girls did to Tonya on I2 was wrong, though. Tonya throwing Beth's clothes into the pool - that was wrong. They definitely had their flaws in the past, for sure. Sometimes things were taken too far. But overall it seems the vibe is different in later days, possibly in part sparked by being restricted so much in what they are allowed to do for fun and such.
I would not want to deal with a verbal blow up or a what Wes and co. does, but I think I'd rather have someone just tell me off once instead of constantly picking and prodding at me. That stuff adds up and makes people blow. That is really bullying.
Though she seems improved, CM does not seem like one for the challenge world to me; however, she does not deserve to have people mess with her like that.
[QUOTE=DCLJulia;269392]for the cookie thing that Mike blow up about. That wasn't that bad, I say this because from interviews I've watched he seems cool with everyone involved now so it just seems like playful bullying[/QUOTE]
No, I think he really was fed up. I watched the exclusive scenes on mtv.com, and they kept messing with him that night and laughing at him until he blew a gasket.
[QUOTE=OrangeStar;269446]I think it's hilarious just HOW black-and-white people here are thinking and judging. "I actually liked her, but now she did that, I can't believe that", or "I thought he changed, but it seems he is still the same a*sh*le as before."
Most people have their good and bad sides, as well as good and bad days, not to speak of editing, or playing it up for the show.
[/QUOTE]
I agree most people have good and bad sides and such, but haven't you watched some people some TV show before and [I]mostly[/I] been annoyed by them? For some people, Tyler and Wes are those types of people, yet a few episodes (Wes) or most of a challenge (Tyler) have "shown" them differently. So some viewers hadn't been annoyed as much by them. And it is nice for them to have good moments acknowledged, right? Now this episode brings it back to what some people typically think about them. For me, it's not like Tyler was my least favorite, then my most favored, then my least again. It is not that extreme. I mostly had the same opinion of him (not good), but was surprised he didn't annoy me as much (though he still had obnoxious moments) - I think the dynamic was a bit different because he fit in a bit better. Sometimes it is not so much a situation of a cast member being better, but others' behavior outweighs/overshadows that cast member, I think. It seems rare that people from these shows have really significant, positive change when they are still doing challenges.
I think the audience would see more shades of gray if the show was put together better. In the past, I felt they showed the cast in a more multi-dimensional way. As for the "playing up behavior thing," I understand the idea of it, but I think if you are not a "bad" person, if you go on a show and act that way to get attention, that's on you when people think badly of you. Plus, it is not fair to use the "I was just playing" excuse for every wrong thing you do.
Not hating or anything but once again the challenge god chokes and puts himself in the elimination before the final challenge.
The whole Wes, Cara Maria, Laurel, Paula incident was just stupid and Tyler looked like a scared child.
How is someone telling you "no one likes you here" bad? If it's true or false she shouldn't care what people think of her. That's high school BS
What Tyler did to Svetlana on key west was true abuse/bullying.
[QUOTE=producer88;269474]I'm sorry but I don't care to see adult behavior from these people, or how to behave in a situation where you or a friend is being bullied, or what lines not to cross, blah blah blah....I watch this show mainly for drama and the competition. Laurel is probably one of the best challenge castmembers ever! I still believe her behavior was the correct thing to do. I always say "don't **** with me, because I will **** with you." It's as simple as that. Laurel is entertaining, strong, and a very intelligent person. I respect her, and I believe more people should be like her. It's not like she goes around looking to fight people. Laurel, like Jemmye from RW:NO2 mentioned, is REAL![/QUOTE]
Producer, I shake my head at you :( Someone can have that "Don't **** with me, because I will **** with you" attitude and not take it to an inappropriate level. The entire situation was great television, sure, but overall it's not the way this situation should have been handled had it happened outside of a television show. If people act like that in real life, I honestly wouldn't want to be around them.
[QUOTE=jace89;269481]How is someone telling you "no one likes you here" bad?If it's true or false she shouldn't care what people think of her. That's high school BS
What tyler did to svetlana on key west was true abuse/bullying.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. It's high school BS. And Wes is a grown *** man spewing out high school BS. He wasn't playfully teasing Cara Maria, he was trying to completely break her down. Everybody knows Cara Maria is emotional and he was pushing her buttons. He continued to do it even AFTER she and Laurel had walked into their room or whatever. And Paula was standing there laughing and high-fiving. I think it's funny how Wes calls Cara Maria fake when his whole schtick is completely for the camera. His whole "I was chiseled by the gods" act is like right out of a bad comedy movie. Not to mention he poured a liter of pop on her head. That's ****ed up.
And while Laurel goes straight for the jugular and I usually can't stand her for it, I had absolutely no sympathy for Paula last night. She cries on every one of these challenges and she had just been harassing Cara Maria, so no I have no sympathy for her. I was totally Team Laurel during that tirade. I was also Team Laurel during the aftershow. Paula absolutely played the victim, and her whole "I am NOT a victim" act is ridiculous because Paula has played the victim in about 8 out of the 9 RW/RR shows she's appeared on. And she was clearly still hurt by what Laurel had said even if she acted all above it. "You're vapor" and all that stuff, k Paula and you're a pathetic mess.
And for the record: I didn't even find this to be entertaining. This was one of the most disturbing and depressing episodes of the Challenge I have ever watched and I hope to God there are no more episodes with this much hate. It was kind of sad.
[QUOTE=fabulous788;269482]Producer, I shake my head at you :( Someone can have that "Don't **** with me, because I will **** with you" attitude and not take it to an inappropriate level. The entire situation was great television, sure, but overall it's not the way this situation should have been handled had it happened outside of a television show. If people act like that in real life, I honestly wouldn't want to be around them.[/QUOTE]
Awww...no I just strongly believe in getting someone back. Like I said it's not like Laurel went out to attack people for no reason. I just agree with what Jeymme from RW:NO2 said, love her or hate her Laurel is real, and she will just speak her mind. I like people who say what is in their minds.
Is there a line? Yes, I do agree with that, but Laurel didn't cross it first.
[QUOTE=mph922;269485]Exactly. It's high school BS. And Wes is a grown *** man spewing out high school BS. He wasn't playfully teasing Cara Maria, he was trying to completely break her down. Everybody knows Cara Maria is emotional and he was pushing her buttons. He continued to do it even AFTER she and Laurel had walked into their room or whatever. And Paula was standing there laughing and high-fiving. I think it's funny how Wes calls Cara Maria fake when his whole schtick is completely for the camera. His whole "I was chiseled by the gods" act is like right out of a bad comedy movie. Not to mention he poured a liter of pop on her head. That's ****ed up.
And while Laurel goes straight for the jugular and I usually can't stand her for it, I had absolutely no sympathy for Paula last night. She cries on every one of these challenges and she had just been harassing Cara Maria, so no I have no sympathy for her. I was totally Team Laurel during that tirade. I was also Team Laurel during the aftershow. Paula absolutely played the victim, and her whole "I am NOT a victim" act is ridiculous because Paula has played the victim in about 8 out of the 9 RW/RR shows she's appeared on. And she was clearly still hurt by what Laurel had said even if she acted all above it. "You're vapor" and all that stuff, k Paula and you're a pathetic mess.
And for the record: I didn't even find this to be entertaining. This was one of the most disturbing and depressing episodes of the Challenge I have ever watched and I hope to God there are no more episodes with this much hate. It was kind of sad.[/QUOTE]
It's funny how we didn't see the part where CM was destroying Wes' stuff. They seem to be all playing around and most likely took it a little too far. That's why I said he was playfully teasing her with no real emotion behind it. Laurel was the one spewing hate in order to make someone cry.
[QUOTE=producer88;269486]Awww...no I just strongly believe in getting someone back. Like I said it's not like Laurel went out to attack people for no reason. I just agree with what Jeymme from RW:NO2 said, love her or hate her Laurel is real, and she will just speak her mind.[B] I like people who say what is in their minds. [/B]
Is their a line? Yes, I do agree with that, but Laurel didn't cross it first.[/QUOTE]
Clearly they don't think before they speak half the time and they should probably learn. Saying what is on your mind constantly is probably better left unsaid half the time. And of course there is a line, but to be honest, I think that Laurel did cross it first in the fight between her and Paula, but that's just me. I didn't hear Paula calling Laurel any names for no apparent reason...
[QUOTE=mph922;269485]His whole "I was chiseled by the gods" act is like right out of a bad comedy movie. Not to mention he poured a liter of pop on her head. That's ****ed up.
[/QUOTE]
That whole Wes act is just pure genious.
Yes, I agree with the pop thing, I mean people dying all over the world from lack of water and food and they just do that?
Edit: mph22 pretty much said what I thought about Wes thing before I posted.
[QUOTE=jace89;269481]How is someone telling you "no one likes you here" bad?If it's true or false she shouldn't care what people think of her. That's high school BS
What tyler did to svetlana on key west was true abuse/bullying.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree that Tyler did classic bullying. It's why I don't care for him and generally find him foul.
However, Wes was bullying, too. Who pours a whole 2 liter soda on someone? If the person is not your friend and you don't have a joking relationship, you are trying to embarrass or taunt or humiliate or bother them. That's what he did. He poured the soda on her, saw she was upset, she went into her room, he followed her in there, sat on the floor, and proceeded to tell her no one likes her. Was all of that necessary? No! Like I said, Wes was trying to cut her down as he's done other people in the past. You may not think it was a big deal, but it definitely wasn't meant to be a nice thing.
To summarize my thoughts on the Laurel and Paula thing, after letting it sink in, I see both sides. But I mostly understand Laurel's side and I am glad she said something to Wes and Paula. They did get her fired up and Paula should not expect to treat anyone any old way and not get some back. They didn't have to do CM like that. So I do agree with those on Laurel's side in that way. But this is what really gets me about Laurel - she went on and on for hours toward Paula? Or perhaps not hours, but taunting her several times over the course of a few hours? Now that's extreme. Without the amount of time and her previous situation, I would have barely thought ill of her. I hope they both learn from it since they are so sensitive about certain issues they have.
[QUOTE=V1man;269470]I won't give you a break. I won't lighten up.
Try being an adult and you'll get my respect.[/QUOTE]
Keep with that holier-than-thou attitude. But realize, we're discussing alcohol-soaked game show contestants. Use all the big words you like, but this isn't a serious forum debating the effects of bullying on a human being's psyche. Maybe you just needed some attention & I took the bait. My fault.
[QUOTE=RW561015;269496]I totally agree that Tyler did classic bullying. It's why I don't care for him and generally find him foul.
However, Wes was bullying, too. Who pours a whole 2 liter soda on someone? If the person is not your friend and you don't have a joking relationship, you are trying to embarrass or taunt or humiliate or bother them. That's what he did. He poured the soda on her, saw she was upset, she went into her room, he followed her in there, sat on the floor, and proceeded to tell her no one likes her. Was all of that necessary? No! Like I said, Wes was trying to cut her down as he's done other people in the past. You may not think it was a big deal, but it definitely wasn't meant to be a nice thing.
To summarize my thoughts on the Laurel and Paula thing, after letting it sink in, I see both sides. But I mostly understand Laurel's side and I am glad she said something to Wes and Paula. They did get her fired up and Paula should not expect to treat anyone any old way and not get some back. They didn't have to do CM like that. So I do agree with those on Laurel's side in that way. But this is what really gets me about Laurel - she went on and on for hours toward Paula? Or perhaps not hours, but taunting her several times over the course of a few hours? Now that's extreme. Without the amount of time and her previous situation, I would have barely thought ill of her. I hope they both learn from it since they are so sensitive about certain issues they have.[/QUOTE]
How is what Wes did to CM any different from what Kenny did to Sarah on The Ruins?
It's just teasing with no hate behind it.
lol, just at the after show and notice Paula was more hurt by Laurel than what CM was to Wes. Anyone can see Laurel only attacked Paula in order to destroy her mentally before the finals and make herself look good after what happen to Eric.
[QUOTE=jace89;269500]How is what Wes did to CM any different from what Kenny did to Sarah on The Ruins?
It's just teasing with no hate behind it.
lol, just at the after show and notice Paula was more hurt by Laurel than what CM was to Wes. Anyone can see Laurel only attacked Paula in order to destroy her mentally before the finals and make herself look good after what happen to Eric.[/QUOTE]
I don't love Kenny and I disagree with his actions toward Sarah. Never said so nor did I reference them. If you are concerned about his actions from The Ruins and if he got backlash for that, there are threads for that challenge somewhere.
Back to Wes, CM, Laurel, and Paula.
Paula being more hurt by Laurel than CM was by Wes - well, we surely saw CM crying after Wes did what he did to her. She was definitely hurt. Why did he need to hurt her at all? Paula did play victim a bit much on The Aftershow. She has a right to be upset that Laurel made fun of her disorder. Laurel did not try to break Paula down before finals - she clearly reacted to her partner being bullied. And Paula's level of hurt has nothing to do with CM being hurt.
We disagree on the matter and I am sure we will continue to do so.
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