The Challenge: Rivals - Welcome to the Jungle

[QUOTE=Insider;255474]You may have specifically said that, but everything else in your post screamed otherwise. You most definitely implied it.[/QUOTE] I grew up in a world of tough love. I choose not to have sympathy for people who suffer consequences as a result of behaviors/lifestyles I do not approve of that they have control over. You may, and that is your right. That is not the same thing as saying I approve of other people's bad behavior toward them. I do not feel sympathy for drunks and drug addicts, for instance, who ruin their health. Doesn't mean I think they are fair game to be shot. To have sympathy indicates that I would be open to helping them or supporting them in someway if given the chance. I choose to save those emotions for situations where I might be able to do that. When it comes to CT, I am emotionally indifferent as to the issue. To indicate that I am otherwise is, to me, the same "You're either with us or against us" mentality that a confrontational society possesses. It is possible to be neither with you nor against you.

[QUOTE=fabulous788;255483]But doesn't each pair only get one vote? That's only 2 for sure from what you said. Theresa would have to get Camila to agree, but I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem.[/QUOTE] Camila wanted Johnny Bananas' banana last season; she shouldn't be a problem either.

[QUOTE=CrazyHorse;255484]I grew up in a world of tough love. I choose not to have sympathy for people who suffer consequences as a result of behaviors/lifestyles I do not approve of that they have control over. You may, and that is your right. That is not the same thing as saying I approve of other people's bad behavior toward them. I do not feel sympathy for drunks and drug addicts, for instance, who ruin their health. Doesn't mean I think they are fair game to be shot. To have sympathy indicates that I would be open to helping them or supporting them in someway if given the chance. I choose to save those emotions for situations where I might be able to do that. When it comes to CT, I am emotionally indifferent as to the issue. To indicate that I am otherwise is, to me, the same "You're either with us or against us" mentality that a confrontational society possesses. It is possible to be neither with you nor against you.[/QUOTE] I was raised similarly. However, it is in my experience as an adult that all of the choices we make in life lead us to one place or another. Sometimes our consequences are more easily detectable. To show sympathy and or compassion for someone who is hurting, regardless of fault or control, is to show great strength. To feel nothing for someone who has lost a brother, friend, son, lover, or otherwise is shocking to me. Did CT's mother do something to cause this? Did CT himself bring this about? You just openly admitted you would do nothing to help this man or his family if you had the opportunity. That saddens me beyond belief.

Let me ask you this, CrazyHorse. How do you feel about battered women? They have control over their actions. Do you feel no sympathy there either? Where do you draw your line? Now, I'm intrigued.

[QUOTE=Insider;255489]Let me ask you this, CrazyHorse. How do you feel about battered women? They have control over their actions. Do you feel no sympathy there either? Where do you draw your line? Now, I'm intrigued.[/QUOTE] I'll try to answer this but let me give you a different example first. I felt sympathetic for Dustin on RW Vegas because of his background and didn't care that much about the Fratpad stuff. When the Cancun episode appeared with him getting aggressive with Mike and talking all that "If you don't respect me, you must fear me" nonsense, any sympathies I had for him went out the window. He's still interesting and sometimes entertaining, but I no longer feel sympathy for him and I take anything he puts out there with a grain of salt. As for battered women, even though I know you are baiting me into getting my head lopped off here, it depends. I never think it is okay for a woman to be abused mentally, emotionally, physically, or sexually EVER. I do not, however, feel sympathy for women who stay in abusive relationships if they have easy outs they do not take. Doesn't mean I want them abused, approve of the abuse, or whatever, I just am not going to be what I think they call an "Enabler" by in any way supporting their decision to stay. If they wanted out and I could help them I would; if I gave them an option, and they said no, I wouldn't spend five years holding their hands while the abuse continued (theoretically at least. In actuality, I would just call the police or adult protective services and let the pro's handle it).

[QUOTE=CrazyHorse;255484]I grew up in a world of tough love. I choose not to have sympathy for people who suffer consequences as a result of behaviors/lifestyles I do not approve of that they have control over. You may, and that is your right. That is not the same thing as saying I approve of other people's bad behavior toward them. I do not feel sympathy for drunks and drug addicts, for instance, who ruin their health. Doesn't mean I think they are fair game to be shot. To have sympathy indicates that I would be open to helping them or supporting them in someway if given the chance. I choose to save those emotions for situations where I might be able to do that. When it comes to CT, I am emotionally indifferent as to the issue. To indicate that I am otherwise is, to me, the same "You're either with us or against us" mentality that a confrontational society possesses. It is possible to be neither with you nor against you.[/QUOTE] First, not all "rights" are imbued with equal moral imperative. You suggest that Insider's right to care and your right to ignore have equal weight. If such were the case, we would have a society of total anarchy and chaos. Society makes choices. In fact, the law recognizes and courts have held that we have community standards. For several years, we've had standards at vevmo -- both written and unwritten. Confucius is reported to have written, "Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men." As I have pondered in their totality the things you have written regarding C.T.'s brother, I find myself pained to identify any compassion or wisdom in your position. As for courage, it doesn't take much to hide behind a screen name on the internet, so you can't win points for a different point of view. And, so it is with a further assessment of "false courage," that it seems to me you have failed in all three tests of character that have stood for 2,500 years. There does come a time to fold ones tent and go off into the night. On this subject, I'd say the time has come. The sun will come up tomorrow on another day.

CrazyHorse, what do you know about the lifestyle CT's brother lead? What do you know about how he was raised and what his threats, perceived or otherwise, were? The flaw in your judgement is that, of course I'm assuming, you really have no idea about his life. You've assumed he brought his murder upon himself and now have zero sympathy for him or his suffering family. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong with our society. People make assumptions and pass judgments. No one cares for anyone else. There can be no peace without love, respect, and compassion. Your statements demonstrate none of those things. If you don't care that a mother is mourning the loss of her son, or that a woman is psychologically stuck in an abusive relationship, that is indeed your right. Doesn't mean it doesn't break my heart. I don't know you, I just pray that you've never been through, and never have to go through anything remotely close to the pain the Tamburello family is feeling. (and will forever feel).

[QUOTE=Insider;255512]CrazyHorse, what do you know about the lifestyle CT's brother lead? What do you know about how he was raised and what his threats, perceived or otherwise, were? The flaw in your judgement is that, of course I'm assuming, you really have no idea about his life. You've assumed he brought his murder upon himself and now have zero sympathy for him or his suffering family. In my opinion, this is exactly what is wrong with our society. [B]People make assumptions and pass judgments.[/B] No one cares for anyone else. There can be no peace without love, respect, and compassion. Your statements demonstrate none of those things. If you don't care that a mother is mourning the loss of her son, or that a woman is psychologically stuck in an abusive relationship, that is indeed your right. Doesn't mean it doesn't break my heart. I don't know you, I just pray that you've never been through, and never have to go through anything remotely close to the pain the Tamburello family is feeling. (and will forever feel).[/QUOTE] All I know is some articles online I read. I am inclined to read a "Boy Needs Transplant" article than "Boy dies awaiting transplant" article. I routinely make an effort to spend a little time most every day of the week with this old man who sits on a bench beside a road that 1000's of people drive past everyday. I've been doing it for quite awhile to make sure he is doing okay, has something to drink when its hot, and to acknowledge that he is a human being. He's a little eccentric but has nobody in his life. We don't even know each other's names but I do it all the time. We call each other by the name "friend". In my opinion, what is wrong with society is not me but the 1000's who don't acknowledge this guy exists. This is the stranger I am sympathetic too, not the million other people who are in the same boat. There is only so much sympathy to go around without being consumed by it, and I pick and choose my battles. Doesn't make me evil--it makes me a realist and practical. You fault me and pass judgment on me but then call me a bad guy for doing what you see as the same. Difference is no matter how many ways it gets restated, I have never said he brought the murder on himself EVER. The only thing I said or tried to say was that he was a victim of a culture. I am not the one who said he was chasing somebody with an axe handle; I never said he deserved to die as some have tried to restate; and no matter how anybody paints it, how I feel about the situation one way or the other will not bring him back or give them ANY comfort nor will I doubt most people's sympathies. Since there is absolutely nothing I can do constructive about that situation, I choose to not care one way or the other about it in favor of choosing instead a lonely old man on a bench, or a neighbor who can barely walk who lost his wife, or someone or something more practical, so I would appreciate it if people would get off my back about it because I am sure there are a lot of things that you each choose not to care about in any meaningful way one way or the other that others might care a great deal about--millions dying from AIDS in Africa; dying oceans; urban blight; continuous civil wars in third world countries, whatever.....

[QUOTE=CrazyHorse;255313]CT has a history of being a physically aggressive hot-head. [/QUOTE] CT has a violent history [B]on the show[/B]. Katie, Eric, Derrick, Brad and other cast members have commented that he is a different person off it. It would be all over TMZ if his television violence translated to the "real world". Someone who actually knows him, Townie, describes him as a private, snobby person who keeps to himself which I think is the reason why he does not get along with famewh*res like JEK and Cara Maria. [QUOTE=CrazyHorse;255313]The articles I read previously about his brother's death made me think he was inviting trouble to begin with. [/QUOTE] Re-read those articles or find newer ones because evidence suggests the CT's brother was actually trying to stay away from trouble which is why the jury took only three hours to sentence the murderer to 20 years - life. I know it's annoying to go off topic especially since this topic has been discussed at length but everyone should care about what happened to CT's brother/the trial because it shows just how flawed the justice system is. If you look it up, you'll see a family's long, hard fight to find justice.

On the topic of this episode...I definitely like how they pick the first team to go in. Hopefully it will lead to booting the weaker teams first, and I definitely think it's fair to make them have to fight for their place.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;255593]On the topic of this episode...I definitely like how they pick the first team to go in. Hopefully it will lead to booting the weaker teams first, and I definitely think it's fair to make them have to fight for their place.[/QUOTE] I agree, and this will finally make it harder for some teams to carry other teams on their backs until the end while more deserving teams go home (i.e. how Laurel & Kenny helped Jenn & Noor and Ryan & Theresa on FM2)

I didn't really catch CT saying his brother was murdered the first time around because I already knew about it, but just to add another verification, I watched a rerun today and it sounded EXACTLY like he said, "I was actually shot in the back".

[QUOTE=Youssarian;255612]I didn't really catch CT saying his brother was murdered the first time around because I already knew about it, but just to add another verification, I watched a rerun today and it sounded EXACTLY like he said, "I was actually shot in the back".[/QUOTE] That's the Boston mumble for you LOL. I think he says "how he" but it sounds like "I".

[QUOTE=Youssarian;255612]I didn't really catch CT saying his brother was murdered the first time around because I already knew about it, but just to add another verification, I watched a rerun today and it sounded EXACTLY like he said, "I was actually shot in the back".[/QUOTE] This is one of those instances where BMP should have used captioning so people would know what he said. And it's not too late for them redo the master to add it.

[QUOTE=CherryPie;255607]I agree, and this will finally make it harder for some teams to carry other teams on their backs until the end while more deserving teams go home (i.e.[B] how Laurel & Kenny helped Jenn & Noor [/B]and Ryan & Theresa on FM2)[/QUOTE] I agree with your post except for the bolded part. All four of the teams in the finale deserved to be there, all had challenge wins and exiles wins under their belts. Looking at all the eliminated teams, every one had a weak link/partner except for the teams in the final (weakest probably being Carley). Jenn and Noor were/are good competitors. But this challenge is good because it's not necessarily the worst team going in, it's the worst team [I]that[/I] day, so they have to redeem themselves in the Jungle to earn the right to stay. It's kind of like a second chance, if you perform the terribly in the mission, you can redeem yourself in the Jungle, or you can continue having a bad day and go home. Different story for the voted-in team but that's when your social game and athleticism is tested.

CT didn't say he himself was shot in the back, he said his brother was murdered then "ahh he was actually shot in the back" but with his accent the ahhh he together kind of sounded like he said I.

[QUOTE=townie;255636]CT didn't say he himself was shot in the back, he said his brother was murdered then "ahh he was actually shot in the back" but with his accent the ahhh he together kind of sounded like he said I.[/QUOTE] [url=http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10711][img]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/40314e0815f63e282.png[/img][/url] I thought he was talking about his brother during the episode but the blog at mtv.com says he [I]also[/I] took a bullet in the back. I know that a lot of info on mtv.com about the challenges are inaccurate so I don't really know anymore.

In the honor of this episode I want to post the song Welcome to the Jungle [URL="http://youtu.be/o1tj2zJ2Wvg"][URL]http://youtu.be/o1tj2zJ2Wvg[/URL][/URL]

This song was in my head since the trailer! ahaha.

[QUOTE=Clarke;255637][url=http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10711][img]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/40314e0815f63e282.png[/img][/url] I thought he was talking about his brother during the episode but the blog at mtv.com says he [I]also[/I] took a bullet in the back. I know that a lot of info on mtv.com about the challenges are inaccurate so I don't really know anymore.[/QUOTE] Lol Yeah I noticed that too, and I think the MTV sites just write stuff quickly or the person writing them doesn't watch the challenges. On the Canadian MTV site they mixed up Tyrie and Nehemiah's names on their cast bios. Lol that doesn't help the stereotype that some people think all black guys look the same. And on the beef chart they wrote Rachel instead of Aneesa.

[QUOTE=Insider;255512]CrazyHorse, what do you know about the lifestyle CT's brother lead? What do you know about how he was raised and what his threats, perceived or otherwise, were? The flaw in your judgement is that, of course I'm assuming, you really have no idea about his life. You've assumed he brought his murder upon himself and now have zero sympathy for him or his suffering family. [/QUOTE] All I ever indicated about CT's brother was that it sounded like maybe he was asking for trouble. When you take heated situations into your own hands instead of calling the police or walking away and using the Courts to resolve the issues, YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE. That is true whether you are a drug dealer or Bill Gates and it has NOTHING--NOT A THING--to do with what type of person you otherwise are. I have never made ONE statement indicating anything about him deserving this EVER. You all assumed I meant something different and jumped down my throat twisting and turning what I said to suit your assumptions. Every day there are plenty of stories about people who die who otherwise probably would not have if they had just picked up the phone and called 911 instead of trying to handle things themselves. The coroners offices would be a lot less busy if people would just get over themselves and say to Hell with ego and dial those 3 digits instead. When I first read an article on his brother's death, the only conclusion I drew was that he would probably still be alive if the police had been involved earlier. I do not care about this story because it is hardly a unique story even with its BMP seal of approval--it is sadly way too common occurrence because everybody seems to think that a "Real Man" should handle his business himself.

CrazyHorse, I don't think you really know much about what happened or much about the people that were involved to be saying much about anything on this subject. The guy that killed CT's brother, as well as this guy's friends, were police informants. These guys basically had free reign to do whatever they wanted around that area as a result. They assaulted people, dealt drugs, bullied, and intimidated anybody they wanted to in that area because they didn't have to worry about consequences. The amount of corruption that was going on within that area is well-documented and as soon as the district attorney was dismissed from the case, the process of filing the proper charges on this guy and getting a conviction went through very swiftly. The original DA said (before he was dismissed) that had these guys on his take said there was insufficient evidence to bring murder charges... not only was there plenty of evidence and witness testimony, but the jury took less than 3 hours to reach their verdict. Also, several of the other guys who were at the park and involved in the incident are currently awaiting sentencing for assault/battery cases that they've been involved in since CT's brother was killed. It's amazing how all of these guys are finally getting in trouble now that they no longer have protection from a corrupt jurisdiction on their side. It would've been an essential waste of time for CT's brother to get the authorities involved in the situation when they were basically one in the same with the guys he had a conflict with.

I am not sure if this is the thread for the 1st episode, but I just heard Derrick's podcasts with Robin about Ep1 and damn he can't interview, leading all the questions and **** it sounded like Derrick was trying to get Robin to say things that he himself thought. I don't get what their problem is, now that they talked about it Robin/Aneesa was the obvious choice, well for Ev/Paula it was. Robin even said she would side with CT and Adam, like are you stupid? Then why do you expect them to keep you around? Obviously Ev is siding with Wes, which on this challenge means siding with the ****** bags that come with Kenny, and Paula is friends with JEK, its a no brainer who to aline yourself with. And Laurel and Ev might be voting the same way because Laurel is also close with Kenny. She even told her to her face, so it wasn't shady. I don't get these people, it's simple, you should go against the strongest people who are going to vote against you. What Robin should've done was out vote them, get her group to pick Laurel but she didn't and is some how now complaining about Ev.

[QUOTE=Blue123;255803]I am not sure if this is the thread for the 1st episode, but I just heard Derrick's podcasts with Robin about Ep1 and damn he can't interview, leading all the questions and **** it sounded like Derrick was trying to get Robin to say things that he himself thought. I don't get what their problem is, now that they talked about it Robin/Aneesa was the obvious choice, well for Ev/Paula it was. Robin even said she would side with CT and Adam, like are you stupid? Then why do you expect them to keep you around? Obviously Ev is siding with Wes, which on this challenge means siding with the ****** bags that come with Kenny, and Paula is friends with JEK, its a no brainer who to aline yourself with. And Laurel and Ev might be voting the same way because Laurel is also close with Kenny. She even told her to her face, so it wasn't shady. I don't get these people, it's simple, you should go against the strongest people who are going to vote against you. What Robin should've done was out vote them, get her group to pick Laurel but she didn't and is some how now complaining about Ev.[/QUOTE] Derrick doesn't like Eve. It goes back a couple of years to The Island. He makes no pretense of being a dispassionate radio host and interviewer. He comes with a point of view that seems to have turned dark in the past couple of years. It's disappointing to me.

[QUOTE=V1man;255820]Derrick doesn't like Eve. It goes back a couple of years to The Island. He makes no pretense of being a dispassionate radio host and interviewer. He comes with a point of view that seems to have turned dark in the past couple of years. It's disappointing to me.[/QUOTE] What happened on the island? I thought they were cool, did she screw him over? But as an interviewer he needs to remain neutral like Mark does on the after shows. He was just being stupid saying things like "taking money away from you and beat you up at the same time" like wtf its a game, even Robin wasn't as bitter as he was about it.

[QUOTE=Blue123;255822]What happened on the island? I thought they were cool, did she screw him over? But as an interviewer he needs to remain neutral like Mark does on the after shows. He was just being stupid saying things like "taking money away from you and beat you up at the same time" like wtf its a game, even Robin wasn't as bitter as he was about it.[/QUOTE] What happened is for Eve to talk about. Not my place...

[QUOTE=V1man;255820]Derrick doesn't like Eve. It goes back a couple of years to The Island. He makes no pretense of being a dispassionate radio host and interviewer. He comes with a point of view that seems to have turned dark in the past couple of years. It's disappointing to me.[/QUOTE] Funny, because it always seemed like Evelyn thought of Derrick as a friend. As far as I remember, she didn't even call him out as part of "The Alliance". I wonder if that dislike played any part in his decision to go along with voting her in against Kelly Anne on The Ruins. Edit: On re-watching The Island Reunion, Evelyn even singles Derrick out as the one guy who, while being part of the alliance, is still respectful.

[QUOTE=V1man;255825]What happened is for Eve to talk about. Not my place...[/QUOTE] So I am guessing it doesn't have to do with the show? Does Ev still like him, or is it now a mutual dislike for one another? Do you know if she even listens to the podcasts? On the last podcast the talent network news people said in the comments that Derrick plans on having Ev on. As much as I want to hear one with Ev on it, if I were her I wouldn't want to do it mainly cause the interviewer is so two faced, like they cant have a podcast without mentioning her name, and it's usually to call her a man or some other stupid comment.

Episode 1 Scoreboard (Before Eliminations) [URL="http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10737"][IMG]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/7104e09582e89641.jpg[/IMG][/URL] DQ = 0 Only thing that was struggling was Brandon/Ty had 13 and you didn't know the times and Aneesa/Robin, Jonna/Jasmine also had 13 hashmarks

[QUOTE=jhl182;255854]Episode 1 Scoreboard (Before Eliminations) DQ = 0 Only thing that was struggling was Brandon/Ty had 13 and you didn't know the times and Aneesa/Robin, Jonna/Jasmine also had 13 hashmarks[/QUOTE] I think that if you are really going to do this, you need to be fair and give teams that tied the same amount of points...or separate it by gender.