RW/RR Challenge: The Ruins - Spoilers & Speculation

A poster in another thread speculated on Veronica's ability to manipulate people to do her bidding. I responded there with: [QUOTE]The problem with this is that Rachel's relationship with many of the cast members will be at play, thus hurting Veronica's ability to influence people. Everyone is on to Veronica's techniques and Tonya and Evelyn are more than prepared with their own game plan to deal with her.[/quote] In this thread, I can say more. Rachel and Evelyn are friends away from TV. This puts Evelyn in the anti-Veronica camp. Tonya's history with V is always a 'gang vs. 1' situation. T will take advantage of the 1-on-1 this time. I have reason to believe that both Evelyn and Tonya have specific strategies for dealing with Veronica. First, Evelyn has carefully studied Viewers' Revenge and talked to people who know how Veronica was intentionally isolated there. Evelyn's natural alliance with the other women is so broad that Veronica really has no one. [B]If the game is two teams, gauntlet style[/B], then look for the "winners" team to throw a mission so that the "challengers will save Susie and send in Evelyn, who will then pick Veronica (and Evelyn will have her team's support) Goodbye V. Where do others line up in this scenario? To win at the end as a team, the guys know they need Evelyn's strengths, and Evelyn can consistently deliver at least five votes from the other team, possibly seven. Those who Evelyn can't control will be as risk for going into the pit and will not be saved. Susie is their weakest woman (because she is the smallest), but Susie has a good relationship/friendship with Johanna (through 3rd parties), Ibis and Tonya (yes, even after the "I have Tonya Because" stuff). She will build a solid relationship with Evelyn, because they will be the only two true intellectuals in the house and will have only each other to talk to. Susie's connection to Katie was likely secured for her before the game by their mutual friend, Tori. Thus, the guys will recognize that V is a liability and must go in. Tonya's strategy is likely more confrontational, asking the challengers to pick her so she can call out Veronica. Again, T will have her team's support because of her solid alliance with Evelyn. How Eve and Tonya will decide who gets to take V out is the unanswered question for me. If, however, the game is Fresh Meat style pairings, then look for the rest of the Winners group to work hard to pair V with Chet, thereby accomplishing "Viewer's Revenge" II.

Well I wish the worst for everyone that's going to try to mess up Veronica's chances at winning.

I love Veronica and i would love nothing more then her to get there stay for a week have a nice vacation and get her appearance check and peace out....There is no way with the amount of catty women (Veronica included, im not gonna lie) that she stands a chance, but if i was V i would be proud to know that being five foot if that the like of Ev and Tonya are that concerned that they would want her out. Kinda pathetic if your trying to win a team game to take out the girl that is really no physical threat to any of the woman and would more than likely help the other team in the end....

Given that information, maybe the Challengers would be wise to not succumb to Evelyn's strategy, getting rid of Veronica (if they have any say in it) would definitely benefit the Champions team much moreso than their own. Given Veronica's past style of play, if the opposing team doesn't cooperate with her own team's efforts to vote her out, I could definitely see Veronica throwing missions to give the Challengers the money. But, I definitely don't underestimate Evelyn's social game and strategic abilities, I just wonder how smart it'd be for the 5-7 challengers who she has under her belt to follow her lead. Especially given that 6 of the 14 challengers have each lost anywhere from 2-6 challenges in the past several years.

The Champion females will dominate aganist the Challenger females.

[QUOTE=iLoVeVeVmo;66571]I love Veronica and i would love nothing more then her to get there stay for a week have a nice vacation and get her appearance check and peace out....There is no way with the amount of catty women (Veronica included, im not gonna lie) that she stands a chance, but if i was V i would be proud to know that being five foot if that the like of Ev and Tonya are that concerned that they would want her out. Kinda pathetic if your trying to win a team game to take out the girl that is really no physical threat to any of the woman and would more than likely help the other team in the end....[/QUOTE] Make no mistake, neither one is concerned about her. They just want her gone for personal reasons: Evelyn on behalf of Rachel, and Tonya as payback for Inferno 2.

[QUOTE=ssseeeaaann;66573]Given that information, maybe the Challengers would be wise to not succumb to Evelyn's strategy, getting rid of Veronica (if they have any say in it) would definitely benefit the Champions team much moreso than their own. Given Veronica's past style of play, if the opposing team doesn't cooperate with her own team's efforts to vote her out, I could definitely see Veronica throwing missions to give the Challengers the money. But, I definitely don't underestimate Evelyn's social game and strategic abilities, I just wonder how smart it'd be for the 5-7 challengers who she has under her belt to follow her lead. Especially given that 6 of the 14 challengers have each lost anywhere from 2-6 challenges in the past several years.[/QUOTE] Early in the game there is always give and take from both sides. We just rarely get to see those discussion in any episode. Brad, for example, negotiated deals during G3, but we only heard about it tangentially. We never were witness to the discussions. The one conversation they did show was actually reenacted the next day for production. [QUOTE=Zachary;66579]This sucks ***. I get the feeling this is going to be Veronica's last challenge if everyone gangs up on her. Its not like she's Tonya and can easily make new friends on other challenges but if Rachel is against her...[/QUOTE] If not for the sizable appearance fee, I don't know why she would come back. Of course, once the game begins, the best laid plans can go right out the window.

This sucks ***. I get the feeling this is going to be Veronica's last challenge if everyone gangs up on her. Its not like she's Tonya and can easily make new friends on other challenges but if Rachel is against her...

Didn't know Ev was close with Rachel. Great to know. I've never been a fan of Veronica so I do hope the odds are against her once again.

[quote=V1man;66576]Make no mistake, neither one is concerned about her. They just want her gone for personal reasons: Evelyn on behalf of Rachel, and Tonya as payback for Inferno 2.[/quote] I know that while she had basically made her bed as it pertains to her past experiences, i just cant help routing for her. It was the same with svet in the Duel. There is just a certain entertainment that V brings that if she leaves we might just be left with the same dull cast. Hence why i stopped watching the island half way through. But overall V has either two options: she makes it to the end and she puts her *****yness aside and tries to get along (yea i know i laughed when i typed it), or she goes out first and she just laughs and counts her money on the way home.

[QUOTE=Zachary;66579]This sucks ***. [/QUOTE] Since this board welcomes people of all lifestyles, could you tell us if this is a good or bad thing? :devil2:

[quote=Zachary;66579]This sucks ***. I get the feeling this is going to be Veronica's last challenge if everyone gangs up on her. Its not like she's Tonya and can easily make new friends on other challenges but if Rachel is against her...[/quote]Veronica, I think, would have lacked the social skills regardless of whatever influence Rachel had before the show. She seems to have the attitude that she's too good for anyone who is not already her friend.

I think it was before The Island aired, There was a thread on the female dynamics and it was a chart like Rachel = strongest girl. Shouldn't a thread be made for The Pit girls?

[quote]Evelyn's natural alliance with the other women is so broad that Veronica really has no one. [B]If the game is two teams, gauntlet style[/B], then look for the "winners" team to throw a mission so that the "challengers will save Susie and send in Evelyn, who will then pick Veronica (and Evelyn will have her team's support) Goodbye V. Susie is their weakest woman (because she is the smallest), but Susie has a good relationship/friendship with Johanna (through 3rd parties), Ibis and Tonya (yes, even after the "I have Tonya Because" stuff). She will build a solid relationship with Evelyn, because they will be the only two true intellectuals in the house and will have only each other to talk to. Susie's connection to Katie was likely secured for her before the game by their mutual friend, Tori. Thus, the guys will recognize that V is a liability and must go in. [/quote]I agree that the best way to deal with V is probably to get rid of her quickly before she can try to dig her claws into anyone. That's what they did on VR, and it worked pretty well. As one of the people involved, Susie would probably have this kind of thought process as well. If I were Tonya, I'd want to send her home also. Susie may be small, but she has always held her own physically and is one of the smartest people there. She can also be nurturing, if people let her, and this is the kind of environment where a grounded, emotionally stable person who can be sensitive to others is a good thing. It's funny how Tori won't be there, but quite a few people with strong connections to her--Kim, Katie, Brad, Susie, Diem--will be. She may be a presence in spirit if not in body, though I wish she'd be there in body (love Tori!). Hopefully the fact that she isn't going means she is leading a happy and productive life right now that she doesn't want to be away from. I'll miss her, though.

Alright, after reading some of this about Evelyn/Tonya/Veronica, I'm a bit confused. I understand Tonya's reasoning for wanting Veronica out, but not so much Evelyn's. On behalf of Rachel? Are we talking about RR Campus Crawl Rachel? If so, why would that make Evelyn anti-Veronica, considering Rachel and Veronica are best friends? Was there a Veronica/Rachel fight or something I didn't hear about?

I would love to see a Derrick/Veronica/Brad alliance, they would dominate. I am really wondering how people are going to react to seeing Veronica after she has taken a long break. Some of the Fresh Meat and cast members that havent been on a challenge are ether going to be very intemidated OR try and get her out first..

[quote=Callee;66591]Alright, after reading some of this about Evelyn/Tonya/Veronica, I'm a bit confused. I understand Tonya's reasoning for wanting Veronica out, but not so much Evelyn's. On behalf of Rachel? Are we talking about RR Campus Crawl Rachel? If so, why would that make Evelyn anti-Veronica, considering Rachel and Veronica are best friends? Was there a Veronica/Rachel fight or something I didn't hear about?[/quote]They dated and reportedly had a nasty break up.

Does Veronica have support from Four Time Champion Darrel? And since Ev is friends with the Kenny/Johnny/Evan alliance, wouldn't Wes be on Veronica's side too?

[QUOTE=MizFit2009;66596]Does Veronica have support from Four Time Champion Darrel? And since Ev is friends with the Kenny/Johnny/Evan alliance, wouldnt Wes be on Veronica's side too?[/QUOTE] Evelyn has the respect of Kenny, Johnny, Evan and Derrick and the friendship of Syrus. She doesn't know Darrell. She has become close to Wes in the past year through Kelly Anne ( (See Evelyn's myspace pics). As for Darrell, for no other reason than he has the greatest number of wins, his days are marked as well, assuming there actually is an all winner team.

[quote=V1man;66576]Make no mistake, neither one is concerned about her. They just want her gone for personal reasons: Evelyn on behalf of Rachel, and Tonya as payback for Inferno 2.[/quote] Tonya seemed to have forgiven Rachel on The Island. Im guessing Tonya/Rachel made up after I2?

[quote=V1man;66598]Evelyn has the respect of Kenny, Johnny, Evan and Derrick and the friendship of Syrus. She doesn't know Darrell. She has become close to Wes in the past year through Kelly Anne ( (See Evelyn's myspace pics). As for Darrell, for no other reason than he has the greatest number of wins, his days are marked as well, assuming there actually is an all winner team.[/quote] The reason Darrell won all those challenges was because everybody was scare of him and no one wanted to go against him.In the inferno I Darrell and Timmy both were sacrifice for the inferno since there were no more weak players and the real world team immediately picked Timmy I remember Syrus saying"Darrel is a boxer no one on our team can beat him".

I wonder just how nasty V and Rachel's break up was.

[quote=tjhallow;66605]I wonder just how nasty V and Rachel's break up was.[/quote] Veronica's gay?

[QUOTE=Jay00;66608]Veronica's gay?[/QUOTE] At last report she had a BF, but she was with Rachel a couple of years ago.

Same situation with Jenn, Jenn dates GUYS but she have feelings for Rachel and make out with her? LOL maybe they both are bi-curious? I think everyone have a good chance at proving themsleves on The Pit.

[quote=Dartagnan;66613]That is interesting news V. It really sucks though because Veronica has always been one of my favorites, so hopefully that isn't the gameplan. I would love for her to go far, along with Tonya and Ev.[/quote] Im loving this early drama. But im with you, I hope Veronica goes far, if only for the sole purpose of seeing her going against Ev/Tonya. It would suck if they actually get her out this early.

I usually don't care for the guys (hehe), but which female do u think will make it far and do well. I'm thinking Kimberly