[QUOTE=viane;38757]On a side note, I can't believe no one's mentioned anything about Bob's artsy genius just yet. He crafted his own immunity idol...?!!? Now that to me, is just... fantastic[/QUOTE]
That fake idol was WAY BETTER than Jason's last year haha And would've been a smart move, had he had to go back to TC with his then tribe.
[QUOTE=CrazyRealityGuy;38760]I honestly think everyone brings something different to the show and everyone deserves to be there, including Susie, alot of these topics are about her. Yes mostly bad, but none-the-less people are still talking about her. She brings a lot of drama. I like my girl Susie. She is smart. Smarter than a lot of people give her credit for. One of the smartest moves was to kick off Marcus and she helped do it last week!
I dislike Crystal and Kenny too, But imagine if those 3 werent on the show??? who would everyone be talking about- besides bob and his inner boy scout? and he did make an impressive "fake" idol! Way to go bob!
I liked how Corinne admitted she was a ***** to Sugar for 25 days and only when she needs her she is nice to her. I did feel bad for Charlie, he did seem like a genuinely nice guy (but you never know with these reality show :) I definitely would have loved to see Randy gone.
Who's to say some people deserve to win more than others? The remaining people are smart in there own way or they wouldn't have made it so far![/QUOTE]
I'm starting to think you may be right about Susie. But i'd also say the same thing about Sugar - she's smarter than they think she is! Both have made CRUCIAL moves to solidify their position in the game.
[QUOTE=viane;38755]All right, I think that's a bit excessive here. What do you mean those who "don't deserve to be there.." EXCUSE ME?
Part of the reason why Survivor appeals to so many people in the first place is because of their casting genius these past seasons. They're actually recruiting people who "truly" represent every segment of our population, and who viewers can "truly" identify with.
So yes, Kenny and company are not the most eloquent of the bunch. But puuhleeaase.... this is the show 17th season. If anything I think it's about darn time to rid ourselves of all these old preconceived notions we hold about what makes for a perfect winner..[/QUOTE]
Wow, I can invoke a passionate response! LOL Not that I did it to get noticed.
I'm not taking back what I said, but I may back-peddle a bit like Corinne. There are some players in my mind that definitely deserve to be there at this point in time over others. Namely Crystal and Kenny. That's just the way I feel.
I can't stand them or the fact that they are still there. To me manipulations and lies, are not admirable traits. They suck in challenges and do nothing to contribute to surviving at camp. And that's why they should be gone and other players like Marcus should still be there.
Maybe I'm just old school here, but this 'outwit' crap is going to far and ruining the originality of this game. Richard Hatch may have been a snake, but he played in every aspect of the game of Survivor.
I like my alpha males. We can never have too many Colby's or Marcus' in Survivor. But hey that's just my opinion.
I like the diversity of the casting and it's great to see everyday people mixed in and not just actor wannabe's. But that's not I was complaining about, so whatever.
I get what you're saying, Kathleen, but the Colby's and the Marcus' are getting too cocky! It's time for the underdogs to smarten up and take the crown for a bit =)
[QUOTE=RockSteadyVybes;38767]I get what you're saying, Kathleen, but the Colby's and the Marcus' are getting too cocky! It's time for the underdogs to smarten up and take the crown for a bit =)[/QUOTE]
One of the problems for producers is that when the underdogs appear to be wholly nonathletic yet continue forward in the game, research shows that these shows begin to lose their wider appeal. They tend to retain only their core audience.
Kathleen is right. The research shows that the transient North American audience prefers its alpha-males with the proper assortment of accompanying eye candy. This is the part of the audience that could not tell you what "outwit, outlast, outplay" is all about. It is also the part that advertisers crave.
[quote=V1man;38772]
Kathleen is right. The research shows that the transient North American audience prefers its alpha-males with the proper assortment of accompanying eye candy. This is the part of the audience that could not tell you what "outwit, outlast, outplay" is all about. It is also the part that advertisers crave.[/quote]
As an alpha-male myself, I agree with the research. I have complained bitterly about the last few seasons - starting with Cirie in Panama.
The fundamentals of the game are not sound. You should not recompense for voting off the physically stronger players in the first half of the season. Yet, that has been the trend and there is no downside.
It is no wonder Survivor is hemorrhaging viewers on an annual basis. When the game is designed to reward removal of the strongest (and usually most physically attractive) players first - you have a degradation of meaningful competition and a ratings issue.
Something has to change so that when you lose, you pay dearly. No bailouts. No fire unless you earn it (give them a little bleach for their water to make it drinkable.) Have ONE (TOTAL) food reward challenge in 39 days. Make them get their own food. No nets or fishing gear. Have them actually survive. Build fishing rods out of branches, sharpened stone and vine. Then see who gets voted out.
Hungry, shelterless people tend to have a different mindset than those supplied with rice and a hut.
If you can't last longer than .01 seconds during an immunity challenge, you probably don't deserve to be there (Crystal) and if the game is to be fully about the snake aspect (Kenny) I'm not sure I even like this show anymore.
In my honest opinion, the balance is gone.
In the end, this season doesn't have much left for me. I don't like Randy, Corinne, Susie or Crystal [U]at all[/U]. Kenny might deserve to be there, but I dislike his kind of player (i.e. mini Richard Hatch.) And I hate the people that like the people I hate - which means I can cross off Matty and Sugar from the list of castaways that I could stomach seeing win. I guess that just leaves Bob and he'll be dumped out like the morning trash in the next week or two...
Survivor should be about survival - and then the other stuff. Surviving should be a core component of the game and not just an inconvenience.
Everyone loves to see the alpha males go far. That is true, But in survivor it's not all about brawns... Look at Tina from the Australian Outback, She played an amazing game without physicality. This game has all aspects. It might be losing it's appeal to people, but it's not fair to say one person deserves it more than another.
The only reason why i say that is because a lot of people would love to be on Survivor and they don't have the physical power on their side, so they have to compinsate with brains. I just think it was very stupid for Marcus to tell Crystal his plans about the final 6. Physically he played an awesome game, but strategically and mentally it was a stupid move.
[QUOTE=CrazyRealityGuy;38782]Everyone loves to see the alpha males go far. That is true, But in survivor it's not all about brawns... Look at Tina from the Australian Outback, She played an amazing game without physicality. This game has all aspects. It might be losing it's appeal to people, but it's not fair to say one person deserves it more than another.
The only reason why i say that is because a lot of people would love to be on Survivor and they don't have the physical power on their side, so they have to compinsate with brains. I just think it was very stupid for Marcus to tell Crystal his plans about the final 6. Physically he played an awesome game, but strategically and mentally it was a stupid move.[/QUOTE]
I think you completely missed the point in Bacchus' commentary. His comments and my own are far more about the direction of the series than a reflection on any individual season. One can always point to individual examples to support a point of view. In the larger context, however, CBS is suffering with both Survivor and TAR both failing to attract new viewers and hemorrhaging from its corp audience. Holding up any number of worthy examples, while laudatory, doesn't offer a useful solution, whereas Bacchus may well point toward a better path. JMHO
[quote=CrazyRealityGuy;38782]Everyone loves to see the alpha males go far. That is true, But in survivor it's not all about brawns.[/quote]
I agree it should not all be about brawn, but being strong should not be a primary deficit. In recent seasons contestants play the end game from day one and we are left with, in my opinion, the most unappealing of cast members when all is said and done.
Fang lost week after week and what did they do? They ousted their physically strongest players. They were in effect rewarded for losing by getting rid of the long run competition. That trend continued with each tribe mix up and now at the merge we are left with lots of snakes and very little else as far as cast texture.
If the object on the game is now to lose, then what value do the tribal immunity competitions really hold?
A great example with Kota was Dan. Why did they vote him out? Because he could win immunity idols. While that should be properly weighted, it came down to an end game strategy over a present tense strategy because the penalty for losing a strong player in the tribe was practically non-existent.
As long as there is no game changing reason to win, losing will be the order of the day - especially after tribe swaps so you can get rid of the strongest players from the other side. Crystal and Kenny are not in the position they are in because they are good players. They are where they are because they are [I]devastatingly[/I] bad (especially Crystal.) They have been on the losing end of every facet of this game and have been fortunate enough to have the numbers (through blind luck and a little Sugar) to do their bidding when it came to tribal council.
The lesson that will be taken away from this season is: The habitually losing tribe designs the face of the end game by getting rid of the strongest players. Winners don't get to make decisions about who stays and who goes. Losers do. [B]
Be a loser.[/B]
[QUOTE=V1man;38772]One of the problems for producers is that when the underdogs appear to be wholly nonathletic yet continue forward in the game, research shows that these shows begin to lose their wider appeal. They tend to retain only their core audience.
Kathleen is right. The research shows that the transient North American audience prefers its alpha-males with the proper assortment of accompanying eye candy. This is the part of the audience that could not tell you what "outwit, outlast, outplay" is all about. It is also the part that advertisers crave.[/QUOTE]
I woudn't doubt any of this...it all makes total sense from an advertising/ratings perspective.
BUT...we can't sit here and pretend that Survivor is [I]all[/I] about brawn! Bacchus, you also made some really good points, but I do not think that Kenny is a bad player (say what you will about Crystal though haha)! And mini-Hatch? Ooooof! come on! Brains are needed to play the game. I understand that most viewers would want to see the Colby's take it to the end...but that's the problem with brawn - sometimes they're outwitted! Maybe not in Gabon's case...but it sure as hell went down that way in Micronesia!
I guess what I'm saying is that just there are a few alpha males in each cast doesn't mean they [I]should[/I] make it to the end; they already have an advantage. If they can't play the social game to back up their brawn...then enjoy the jury box =)
[quote]"In my honest opinion, the balance is gone.
Survivor should be about survival - and then the other stuff. Surviving should be a core component of the game and not just an inconvenience."[/quote]
Hmm... that being said, how come no one is criticizing Corrine, Charlie and Marcus for voting Dan out a few weeks ago? Wasn't the original reason that Dan was consuming too much and so a liability to the group survival?
I think your point is valid, only I just don't see how that supports the idea of a balance now missing, much less why balance is even necessary for the show to score ratings.
Semantic and word quibbling aside, I just wanted to remind that regardless of who we root for in this game, the things we say on this forum transpire a meaning that can dangerously expand beyond the show or this forum.
We all root for these people because we can identify with them, so please, just be careful when you say that a player doesn't "deserve" to be there since that's obviously bound to ignite something (and in most cases, something which you didn't intend).
Remember when it was still reality TV, and we could just watch the magic happen when some cool player would rise up to defy the earlier status quo in television sketching? Please, just don't get caught up in your own prophecies.. or look for balance.
Again, I am not saying it should be all about brawn and I am not saying that smart players should not do well.
What I am saying is the object of the game should not be to surround yourself with the worst players possible - which is clearly the current format.
I am not just talking about the males either. I was actually thinking of Jacquie who was smart and strong. Why was she voted out? Because she was smart and strong. Fang got rid of her for those reasons being the penalty for being weaker than they were before tribal council was non-existent.
If they are going to continue down this path, then they need to get rid of the mid game player swaps (tell them upfront) and make it so the team that destroys itself by getting rid of smart, strong players will be down 7-2 come the merge and will be guaranteed to be taken out by a super majority.
These mid game player swaps are team welfare and reward poor play.
...and you are wrong about the alpha males having an advantage. They have every disadvantage and have been unceremoniously and methodically voted out early on when possible over the last 4-5 seasons because the cast knows it doesn't take winning to win.
[quote]Hmm... that being said, how come no one is criticizing Corrine, Charlie and Marcus for voting Dan out a few weeks ago? [/quote]Re-read post #160, 4th paragraph....and no viane, some people don't deserve to be there based on performance. Just because you see yourself in a given player, doesn't mean we can't offer up how we feel about them. There is not a "praise only" sign hanging over the vevmo door (although we do give deference to cast members who join our family.) Diverse opinions are welcome and if yours is contrasting, then by all means share.
That doesn't mean those that disagree are going to conform to your thoughts so as to not offend. This forum is about talking about the show and offering opinions both good and bad. If you are for one reason or another offended by the opinions of others, it might be best you recuse yourself from the area of the site where said opinions are shared.
Well personally I am pulling for Bob to make it to the end since he does well for his age and Kenny...I wanted to pull for him in the beginning with him being the underdog and the smallest guy out there. But now even if he has been making some good moves I'd like to see him get his and go home. As for Crystal...she has disappointed me I thought she would come in and rip heads off to win but instead she just doesn't do it.
[QUOTE=GoldenWarrior;38834]Well personally I am pulling for Bob to make it to the end since he does well for his age and Kenny...I wanted to pull for him in the beginning with him being the underdog and the smallest guy out there. But now even if he has been making some good moves I'd like to see him get his and go home. As for Crystal...she has disappointed me I thought she would come in and rip heads off to win but instead she just doesn't do it.[/QUOTE]
Bob was Julie Berry's teacher back in the day.
Jeff remembers Julie even if many of you don't...
Good talk, this week guys! We've got some crazy awesome survivor debating goin' on haha
Hope the season stays strong til the end.
The good part about this show is that you either root for your faves or watch to see if the villains crash and burn! In both cases...it remains incredibly entertaining.
Andy Dehnart over at Reality Blurred has a few thoughts about how the game has gone thus far. I think he is on to something...[INDENT] [quote]Long before the somewhat surprising ending of Survivor Gabon last night, I was struck by who was left and how much I was annoyed by that and by the direction the game has taken. During the reward challenge, I was thinking, where are all the strong people, the people I like and expected to be around at this point in the game? Instead, those playing a massive game of slingshot golf were mostly the weaker, increasingly unlikable people.[/quote]
[/INDENT][URL="http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_gabon/2008_Nov_14_merge_reaction"]Nobag's power players are no fun[/URL]
[quote=Bacchus;38906]Andy Dehnart over at Reality Blurred has a few thoughts about how the game has gone thus far. I think he is on to something..[/quote]
Andy does make a lot of good points, esp. about Kenny.
I'm still shocked man. I really thought the Kota 4 would be able to take it...but sometimes the game twists are too much and ruin some alliance plans (Aaron, in China, got TOTALLY burned by that twist).
Andy was one of the small cadre of journalists who went to Gabon, lived at the base camp and interviewed the entire cast. I've know Andy for about almost four years and greatly respect his opinion.
[QUOTE=V1man;38916]Andy was one of the small cadre of journalists who went to Gabon, lived at the base camp and interviewed the entire cast. I've know Andy for about almost four years and greatly respect his opinion.[/QUOTE]
As did Dalton Ross from EW.com. This TV Watch for this week can be found [URL="http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20240442,00.html"]here[/URL]. Jeff Probst's blog for this episode, [URL="http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/11/jeff-probst-b-1.html"]here[/URL]. Both are great reads, week after week.
Ah yeah I enjoyed reading through that it makes good points all around. And I agreethe Kota alliance seemed like it would make it to the end but the game has so many twists and turns that sometimes you can never be sure who will end up on top. Now I can't say that it isn't interesting to see who exactly ends up at the end now, it's more up in the air...I don't think the Kota alliance is out of it yet at all. Though in a way Bob is moving up the alliance peaking order lol
[QUOTE]Ace Gordon celebrated being voted off on "Survivor: Gabon" with a drunken boozefest that reportedly ended in a throwdown with the cops.
[URL="http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=965"][IMG]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/14921b9aa85145.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Gordon was busted early Sunday morning for disorderly intoxication, obstruction of an officer and resisting arrest without violence after reportedly being tossed out of a bar in Naples, Fla. for striking a woman.
According to the Naples Daily News, Gordon was also aggressive towards an officer while being escorted out the bar and was thrown to the ground in order to be handcuffed.
The NDN also reports Ace "repeatedly told deputies he was famous."
The guy you'll never hear about again was released from Collier County jail on Sunday.
[[URL="http://www.tmz.com/2008/11/17/survivor-arrested-not-immune-from-the-booze/"]via TMZ[/URL]]
[/QUOTE]
I guess he really is an *******, lol. :wink2:
[quote=Bacchus;39056]I guess he really is an *******, lol. [/quote]
lol Who would have guessed? Damn now I don't feel so bad he got the boot off the show...
Here is the preview for Episode 10 of Survivor Gabon with Jeff Probst.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dShlbYreeYA"]YouTube - Survivor Gabon ~ Jeff Probst's episode 10 preview[/URL]
It looks like we are in for another good episode! :D
I just now thought of something.... Next Thursday is Thanksgiving and the last time that Survivor aired on Thanksgiving, it was a [B]recap[/B] episode :( I really hope this doesn't happen because I hate recap episodes.
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