The Challenge: Invasion - A River of Endless Light

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Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

That happened a long as time ago. Too late for that.

Nah.

Then you clearly don't get what made this show different from the rest. It had nothing to do with veterans.

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

And you are putting way too little importance. If anything, the veterans should present value to a someone who dislikes them like you simply by giving you someone to root against. Competition isn't nearly as compelling when you have no emotional stake in the winner or loser. That's why I'm cool with ******** like Amanda being on the show. I think she's pretty ridiculous in general and a bit of a try-hard (though not to the extent of Ashley in the last episode), but I like her on the show because she sparks conversation and interest. The vets do that and are a big reason why this show h***urvived as long as it has. Plus, it's interesting to see the evolution a lot of these competitors go through over the years.Either way, we're obviously never going to agree on this. I would find your ideal show terribly boring and you don't like my mix of vets and rooks very much.

But here's the thing...The veterans aren't the only ones that can be rooted against, There's some newer peeps that I don't really care for...Like Amanda, and honestly most AYTO people. I don't need Bananas to be on this show for me to hate. Same with Camilla, CM, etc. Everything you're saying can easily be done with a new crop of people but you don't think that as you think the veteran are essential to the show and think they're the only ones that can bring what they bring. You don't vaule anything new when it comes to this show and IMO that's a stupid mentaility.It's fine if you think that my ideas and what I want for the show is boring. I don't mind a mix of old and new...but that old better not be t he same ******* people that have been on 20 damn seasons of this show and they shouldn't take presedence over the new kids. The old vets had their time and fun. The vets are the past. New kids are the future.

Holy strawman Batman. I've never said the bolded once. I've said I like the new and the old pretty consistently in this discussion. Not to mention it just doesn't make sense. The veterans that I like seeing now (which aren't all of them, by the way) were people I thought were compelling as rookies. It's not like "oh, you're on Season 4, I'll pay attention to you now". I liked CT from his first appearance on the Inferno (when he was a rookie), and liked Darrell from his first appearance on the Gauntlet. I did not like Wes on his first appearance on Fresh Meat, but I recognized as a rookie that he was going to be a star on the show.

I want rookies on every season. So I'm not sure where you got the bolded from, but it's not from something I typed.

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

And you are putting way too little importance. If anything, the veterans should present value to a someone who dislikes them like you simply by giving you someone to root against. Competition isn't nearly as compelling when you have no emotional stake in the winner or loser. That's why I'm cool with ******** like Amanda being on the show. I think she's pretty ridiculous in general and a bit of a try-hard (though not to the extent of Ashley in the last episode), but I like her on the show because she sparks conversation and interest. The vets do that and are a big reason why this show h***urvived as long as it has. Plus, it's interesting to see the evolution a lot of these competitors go through over the years.Either way, we're obviously never going to agree on this. I would find your ideal show terribly boring and you don't like my mix of vets and rooks very much.

But here's the thing...The veterans aren't the only ones that can be rooted against, There's some newer peeps that I don't really care for...Like Amanda, and honestly most AYTO people. I don't need Bananas to be on this show for me to hate. Same with Camilla, CM, etc. Everything you're saying can easily be done with a new crop of people but you don't think that as you think the veteran are essential to the show and think they're the only ones that can bring what they bring. You don't vaule anything new when it comes to this show and IMO that's a stupid mentaility.It's fine if you think that my ideas and what I want for the show is boring. I don't mind a mix of old and new...but that old better not be t he same ******* people that have been on 20 damn seasons of this show and they shouldn't take presedence over the new kids. The old vets had their time and fun. The vets are the past. New kids are the future.

Holy strawman Batman. I've never said the bolded once. I've said I like the new and the old pretty consistently in this discussion. Not to mention it just doesn't make sense. The veterans that I like seeing now (which aren't all of them, by the way) were people I thought were compelling as rookies. It's not like "oh, you're on Season 4, I'll pay attention to you now". I liked CT from his first appearance on the Inferno (when he was a rookie), and liked Darrell from his first appearance on the Gauntlet. I did not like Wes on his first appearance on Fresh Meat, but I recognized as a rookie that he was going to be a star on the show.I want rookies on every season. So I'm not sure where you got the bolded from, but it's not from something I typed.

Well you did say that there's no vaule in an all rookie cast so in a way you don't value new people on this show. 

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

And you are putting way too little importance. If anything, the veterans should present value to a someone who dislikes them like you simply by giving you someone to root against. Competition isn't nearly as compelling when you have no emotional stake in the winner or loser. That's why I'm cool with ******** like Amanda being on the show. I think she's pretty ridiculous in general and a bit of a try-hard (though not to the extent of Ashley in the last episode), but I like her on the show because she sparks conversation and interest. The vets do that and are a big reason why this show h***urvived as long as it has. Plus, it's interesting to see the evolution a lot of these competitors go through over the years.Either way, we're obviously never going to agree on this. I would find your ideal show terribly boring and you don't like my mix of vets and rooks very much.

But here's the thing...The veterans aren't the only ones that can be rooted against, There's some newer peeps that I don't really care for...Like Amanda, and honestly most AYTO people. I don't need Bananas to be on this show for me to hate. Same with Camilla, CM, etc. Everything you're saying can easily be done with a new crop of people but you don't think that as you think the veteran are essential to the show and think they're the only ones that can bring what they bring. You don't vaule anything new when it comes to this show and IMO that's a stupid mentaility.It's fine if you think that my ideas and what I want for the show is boring. I don't mind a mix of old and new...but that old better not be t he same ******* people that have been on 20 damn seasons of this show and they shouldn't take presedence over the new kids. The old vets had their time and fun. The vets are the past. New kids are the future.

Holy strawman Batman. I've never said the bolded once. I've said I like the new and the old pretty consistently in this discussion. Not to mention it just doesn't make sense. The veterans that I like seeing now (which aren't all of them, by the way) were people I thought were compelling as rookies. It's not like "oh, you're on Season 4, I'll pay attention to you now". I liked CT from his first appearance on the Inferno (when he was a rookie), and liked Darrell from his first appearance on the Gauntlet. I did not like Wes on his first appearance on Fresh Meat, but I recognized as a rookie that he was going to be a star on the show.I want rookies on every season. So I'm not sure where you got the bolded from, but it's not from something I typed.

Well you did say that there's no vaule in an all rookie cast so in a way you don't value new people on this show. 

Now you're just being silly.

With the reunion this will be a 16 episode season? LIT

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

And you are putting way too little importance. If anything, the veterans should present value to a someone who dislikes them like you simply by giving you someone to root against. Competition isn't nearly as compelling when you have no emotional stake in the winner or loser. That's why I'm cool with ******** like Amanda being on the show. I think she's pretty ridiculous in general and a bit of a try-hard (though not to the extent of Ashley in the last episode), but I like her on the show because she sparks conversation and interest. The vets do that and are a big reason why this show h***urvived as long as it has. Plus, it's interesting to see the evolution a lot of these competitors go through over the years.Either way, we're obviously never going to agree on this. I would find your ideal show terribly boring and you don't like my mix of vets and rooks very much.

But here's the thing...The veterans aren't the only ones that can be rooted against, There's some newer peeps that I don't really care for...Like Amanda, and honestly most AYTO people. I don't need Bananas to be on this show for me to hate. Same with Camilla, CM, etc. Everything you're saying can easily be done with a new crop of people but you don't think that as you think the veteran are essential to the show and think they're the only ones that can bring what they bring. You don't vaule anything new when it comes to this show and IMO that's a stupid mentaility.It's fine if you think that my ideas and what I want for the show is boring. I don't mind a mix of old and new...but that old better not be t he same ******* people that have been on 20 damn seasons of this show and they shouldn't take presedence over the new kids. The old vets had their time and fun. The vets are the past. New kids are the future.

Holy strawman Batman. I've never said the bolded once. I've said I like the new and the old pretty consistently in this discussion. Not to mention it just doesn't make sense. The veterans that I like seeing now (which aren't all of them, by the way) were people I thought were compelling as rookies. It's not like "oh, you're on Season 4, I'll pay attention to you now". I liked CT from his first appearance on the Inferno (when he was a rookie), and liked Darrell from his first appearance on the Gauntlet. I did not like Wes on his first appearance on Fresh Meat, but I recognized as a rookie that he was going to be a star on the show.I want rookies on every season. So I'm not sure where you got the bolded from, but it's not from something I typed.

Well you did say that there's no vaule in an all rookie cast so in a way you don't value new people on this show. 

Now you're just being silly.

Whatever. The point is that I don't think the old vets are needed. You do. That's it. Lets agree to disagree and move on.

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I'm with you. I personally stopped watching RW when they made explosion and went aways from the roots and casting 7 strangers. AYTO never watched but will say Nelson is good addition to the show, he is competiton first ( needs to learn how to swim and train his brain) and not all drama/camera hungry. Look this season, Shane and Darrell saved this from being bad because of messy format. If they don't cast old schoolers and regulars, you will get new Seasons 2 which will flop and will get show cancellede like RW. Casuals dictated what kind of cast will we have coz they make most of the viewers. Most of the neweer people who made this show never lifted anything heavier 1 l cocktail and doesn't have any interest in watching sports.

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. 

Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

With the reunion this will be a 16 episode season? LIT

If they showed more in the shelter itd be lit, but its 16 episodes for shitty reasons lol

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I'm with you. I personally stopped watching RW when they made explosion and went aways from the roots and casting 7 strangers. AYTO never watched but will say Nelson is good addition to the show, he is competiton first ( needs to learn how to swim and train his brain) and not all drama/camera hungry. Look this season, Shane and Darrell saved this from being bad because of messy format. If they don't cast old schoolers and regulars, you will get new Seasons 2 which will flop and will get show cancellede like RW. Casuals dictated what kind of cast will we have coz they make most of the viewers. Most of the neweer people who made this show never lifted anything heavier 1 l cocktail and doesn't have any interest in watching sports.

Why would they need to?

My fingers are legitimately sore from scrolling through so much so quick just now.

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I'm with you. I personally stopped watching RW when they made explosion and went aways from the roots and casting 7 strangers. AYTO never watched but will say Nelson is good addition to the show, he is competiton first ( needs to learn how to swim and train his brain) and not all drama/camera hungry. Look this season, Shane and Darrell saved this from being bad because of messy format. If they don't cast old schoolers and regulars, you will get new Seasons 2 which will flop and will get show cancellede like RW. Casuals dictated what kind of cast will we have coz they make most of the viewers. Most of the neweer people who made this show never lifted anything heavier 1 l cocktail and doesn't have any interest in watching sports.

The way Nelson handled Ashley in this episode was pretty nice. Still pretty meh about him in general (don't hate him by any means but not sure how much I like him either) but that was well-played by him.

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. 

The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

CokoMaggot wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I'm with you. I personally stopped watching RW when they made explosion and went aways from the roots and casting 7 strangers. AYTO never watched but will say Nelson is good addition to the show, he is competiton first ( needs to learn how to swim and train his brain) and not all drama/camera hungry. Look this season, Shane and Darrell saved this from being bad because of messy format. If they don't cast old schoolers and regulars, you will get new Seasons 2 which will flop and will get show cancellede like RW. Casuals dictated what kind of cast will we have coz they make most of the viewers. Most of the neweer people who made this show never lifted anything heavier 1 l cocktail and doesn't have any interest in watching sports.

The way Nelson handled Ashley in this episode was pretty nice. Still pretty meh about him in general (don't hate him by any means but not sure how much I like him either) but that was well-played by him.

I agree. But I will say that once it was made obvious that she was just wanting attention they should've just left her to cry.

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

Emily and Evelyn? Ehh..Emily is fine with me but I hated Evelyn. She was a good competitor but man w***he a sour puss.

CokoMaggot wrote:

berklonius wrote:

richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I'm with you. I personally stopped watching RW when they made explosion and went aways from the roots and casting 7 strangers. AYTO never watched but will say Nelson is good addition to the show, he is competiton first ( needs to learn how to swim and train his brain) and not all drama/camera hungry. Look this season, Shane and Darrell saved this from being bad because of messy format. If they don't cast old schoolers and regulars, you will get new Seasons 2 which will flop and will get show cancellede like RW. Casuals dictated what kind of cast will we have coz they make most of the viewers. Most of the neweer people who made this show never lifted anything heavier 1 l cocktail and doesn't have any interest in watching sports.

Why would they need to?

Hitting gym will only make your body ripped, but you still need knowledge to compete which mostly comes either from watching sports or by playing sports. Half of them don't have endurance, can't swim, have balance issues, etc. I have friend who is ripped af, but is huge antitalent vast majority of sports.

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

Emily and Evelyn? Ehh..Emily is fine with me but I hated Evelyn. She was a good competitor but man w***he a sour puss.

Yeah, she was definitely overly pouty in Fresh Meat 2 with Luke -- who wasn't nearly as terrible of a competitor as Evelyn made him out to be. I did like her fight in The Island though. I rate that a little higher than the Laurel bully act of Cutthroat and her weirdness with Cara Maria in Free Agents. 

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

Emily and Evelyn? Ehh..Emily is fine with me but I hated Evelyn. She was a good competitor but man w***he a sour puss.

Yeah, she was definitely overly pouty in Fresh Meat 2 with Luke -- who wasn't nearly as terrible of a competitor as Evelyn made him out to me. I did like her fight in The Island though. I rate that a little higher than the Laurel bully act of Cutthroat and her weirdness with Cara Maria in Free Agents. 

Yeah. She was just never happy and took this game way to seriously...which I get on some level but damn. It ain't a matter of life and death.

Stan_ER wrote:

It's insane that you people would prefer drunken antics and Ashley M continually threatening to leave than a tribute to someone who passed away(and I didn't even like diem on her challenges). Some of you are horrible people. 

I prefer neither honestly.

This 3 day final is really pointless. Oh well bring in season 30. Darrell and Shane were def the MVPs of the season. I was neutral to Ashley.M but now i can't stand her. She is so ******* annoying really. Mvp female from the Underdogs was definitely Amanda and she deserved to be in this final instead of Ashley. This shit Ashley is pulling makes me thing about Tori. Just like Tori, Ashley is pulling that bs card "I want to go home" shit and being annoying only to reach the final urgh. The final format is as ******** as the main format and having 2 champs and 4 underdogs is also stupid. And now on top of that they are going to switch partners which means Underdogs will team up with Champ...Three consecutive seasons with shit formats but this one was saved by the cast. 

I don't understand how can they screw up 3 seasons in a row without learning from their mistakes. They are trying to put so many plottwists that they are just making messy formats.

Shane was male MVP. Great job Shane. You were relevant, clever, entertaining, funny and competed every episode at a high level.

As much as I hate to say it, Camilla was the female MVP.  This was her best season on every level. I thought her window had closed after Rivals III and we wouldn't see her again, but she came back strong. Her win in the heights above water mission where she wrapped herself in the rope was impressive in particular.

 

 

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

you found emily compelling? how come? i think she's one of the most unremarkable and bland cast members ever. also, even though shes a competitor, her athletic attributes put me to sleep because i feel like she only dominates because shes big and works out harder than everyone else. no disrespect to those who work out but i think those who overdo it are taking this competition way too seriously. its supposed to be silly, funny, laid back to some degree and it annoy me that so many cast members are trying to turn it into some weight lifting cross fit sport

berklonius wrote:

Debut Album wrote:

berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
richjoe92 wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Debut Album wrote:
berklonius wrote:
Tbone123 wrote:
JEKFAN wrote:idk why but I'm just not into this season anymore. I guess I just don't care for anyone really who is left except CT. I hope he takes home the title. But this is a boring *** group of finalists. Too many newbies.

Finals don't need vets in them to be entertaining. What's wrong with a final being full of proven rookies? But in this case there's literally only 2 people likable for me. Likability also has a big factor but to just say too many newbies makes you sound like someone from the FB group ;/. Reason why this final is gonna be boring is cause majority of them are so unlikable. 

Having a mix of veterans and newer players is ideal. New people need to conquer the old to make their footing in the game. That's what makes for good competition and storylines. 

No its not Ideal...at least not for me. I'd rather see a fresh crop of rookies in the final instead of old, tired *** veterans. Its more interesting if you ask me because I haven't seen it a thousand ******* times already. I feel like the people say that are too attached to the vets and won't be satisfied unless they're involved in everything regarding this show. I also don't think they need to beat the vets in order to have a place in the game..that's never been the case and it never will be theres no gatekeeper bullshit to this show and it doesnt make for better storylines either..I don't give a damn about old vs new. I care about new people taking over this show and moving forward with it. Bit thats just me.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with just about all of this. In anything competitive, there are the champs and there are the people who want to be champs. Having new people running around aimlessly because they're new doesn't really add anything and takes away from the novelty of being "new" in the first place. For new people to be a "fresh" face, there has to been an established face. And I think the people who mindlessly "stan" new people do that because they are a possible shot in the arm to the establishment. People might grow to get sick of people or teams that are there every year (the Patriots in football, the Yankees in baseball for a long time, whatever team LeBron is on in basketball), but they enjoy seeing those people and teams get beat a lot.So while you may be annoyed by the veterans, they are integral to the evolution of the game. The current veterans were new people at one point and the current new people will be veterans, some very soon. One of the reason I like The Challenge (and one of the reasons it's lasted for two decades) is that there is a tie between the current game and the old games. It's one of the few reality shows that h***tood the test of time due to that.  One thing I liked about this season is that it allowed both veterans and newcomers to thrive. The format was messy in other ways (thought it was dumb the teams were uneven and thought it was dumb that elimination days were pre-determined -- though I'm guessing this was done to prevent a Gauntlet 3-type situation) but it did prevent it from being a situation where CT/Darrell/Bananas just gamed the rest of the field.You're very p***ionate about always being new, but is new really that "new" if there's no old?

Yes. They are still new despite the like of old. They are they debuting, on their 2nd or 3rd. They are fresh faces compared to the old that hae been on several seasons in a span of 7/8 years.

You missed my point. My point was that the novelty of being "new" fades when everything is constantly new every season. The fresh faces and attitudes aren't as fresh if there aren't veterans to contrast them against.

But that's not true. People can still be new without the vets. You're putting too much importance on the vets like a lot of people do. 

I agree with DA. I see your point with the novelty of being new, but its a moot point when we have vets we seen countless times and seen what they bring to the table in terms of competiton and drama. A whole season of fresh faces is still fresh since we've never been expose to what they can offer. So I disagree with your point of a new face is new if its next to an old face. A new face is new since we haven't seen it; that's my counterarguement to you, berklonius.

Then the challenge turns into almost every other reality show out there. There are many reasons I like the Challenge (competition being a main one since I'm a sports geek) but one of the main drawing points for me is the continuation of old storylines and rivalries while integrating new ones. You're catching up with characters you recognize and feel like you get to know while at the same time adding new elements. It doesn't need an "all-star" season like Survivor or Big Brother do to wake you up  -- it's able to do that every season without being that over-the-top about it.Johnny Bananas is an annoying ****. I don't like it when he wins. But I do respect his gameplay and I do love it when that gameplay backfires and when he gets defeated. That makes for great TV IMO specifically because I do not like him. I guess I equate this show more to sports which is why I like the veteran concept along with simulatneously liking the concept of seeing newer people challenging that order. I don't like the New York Yankees, but I like people toppling them and beating them.I'm not really looking to change minds here, just giving an alternate perspective.  It's hard for me personally to build any sort of care about how these people perform if they're constantly shuttling in and out.

I'm saying don't have older castmembers. I'm just saying that we don't need older castmembers. There's a difference. They new faces come from RW/AYTO, with prexisiting relationships, and that can be pushed to the forefront of developing themFor example the underdogs team, With Shane excluded, there were stories for the fresh faces that have either debuted or been on a challenge no more than 4 times.. 

Not going to agree with that, which is fine. I like having older castmembers sprinked in -- having Shane and Darrell back this season was great and I thought it was cool how they integrated themselves with the newer players (especially Shane). And I'll be honest, I've never actually seen a full episode of AYTO and stopped watching Real World regularly years ago. I just don't have enough time to digest all of that and I cut it out of my "*********" list. Maybe that makes me a dreaded "casual" (even though I've seen every seen of the Challenge), but that's how I roll and might partially explain our disconnect. I'm fine with developing new characters, but I'm also fine with the characters that "hit" becoming key parts of the franchise.The great thing about The Challenge is that you can have it both ways. Not sure why it's necessary to go heavy one way or the other. But to each their own -- makes for conversation.

I love a healthy mix. I would prefer if the older crowd didn't appear so consecutively tho. I just don't agree with the fact that you think we NEED them. I WANT them, but I don't NEED them to deem a season good or not. Like you said, to each his own. Good convo tho, I understand your perspective.

Completely agree on the bolded. I do not like it when a Bananas/Cara Maria/Camila/Nany show up five seasons in a row. That does get to be tiresome. A two-on, two-off, or some variation, is preferred. Preaching to the choir on that one. And I also appreciate the convo. 

That's part of the problem...We never get a break from them. They're always on the show doing the same shit and that gets tiring to watch. I want something new now. And aside from that most of the veterans now are unlikable IMO so they aren't even enjoyable to watch for me. 

I don't find many of the current rookies on this season too likable either, which also explains our disconnect. Hunter has gameplay potential -- but he's too much of a shit-talker for his current skill level, plus he's a loud-talker. I'm neutral on Cory and Nelson and think they'll ultimately be Leroy-types, and find Tony to be a big, dumb animal. Girls wise, Amanda is annoying but brings value because she starts conversation, kind of like a much-smaller version of Beth. Ashley has a lot of gameplay skills but needs to cut out the made-up drama. I hate Nicole's accent with the fire of 1,000 suns . I'm completely 100 percent neutral on Jenna (which makes me the 1 percent on this board), and think Sylvia is kind of a useless third wheel. I like LaToya, but I don't think she'll ever make it far in this game, and am slightly intrigued by Kailah. Either way, there's not a lot for me to latch on to, though I'd probably root for all of the guys over Bananas just cause. I really wish someone like Marlon showed up more than once -- he was a really likeable rookie.

Yeah..I don't find any of the newer people unlikable at all. That's not to say I like all of them(As I stated before I don't care for Amanda) but none of them are outright horrible IMO. The Vets on the other hand..most of them are awful personalities to me...Well mainly Backpack/CT/Camilla/CM/Laurel. I'm fine with Darrell and Up and down with CT.

I'm a CT fan. I liked him when he was a complete ******* meathead in his early Challenge career (mostly because I thought he was humorous and I enjoyed how well he did the challenges) and I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a seemingly thoughtful and respectable human being. I also like Darrell. I don't like Backpack but respect his gameplay, Camila annoys the shit out of me, up and down on Cara Maria (like the way she competes but hate the victim mentality) and am pretty whatever on Laurel. I think both Emily and Evelyn were more compelling of the all-time elite female challengers.

you found emily compelling? how come? i think she's one of the most unremarkable and bland cast members ever. also, even though shes a competitor, her athletic attributes put me to sleep because i feel like she only dominates because shes big and works out harder than everyone else. no disrespect to those who work out but i think those who overdo it are taking this competition way too seriously. its supposed to be silly, funny, laid back to some degree and it annoy me that so many cast members are trying to turn it into some weight lifting cross fit sport

It's not just for the competition though. It helps their outside careers too. She declines every call but she still works out. "many cast members are trying to turn it into some weight lifting cross fit sport" Blame that on Justin Booth. 

Anyone else feel like if CT wasn't there Camilla wouldn't have remembered the significance of the day?

Anyone else feel like if CT wasn't there Camilla wouldn't have remembered the significance of the day?

No. She was close friends with Diem.

Anyone else feel like if CT wasn't there Camilla wouldn't have remembered the significance of the day?

they were close friends hung out outside the challenge 

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