Real World Brooklyn: Ep. 2 - Discussion

[QUOTE=KatesMom;44548]V1man, I know I am new here, but I am not sure I get it. I get the part that his "words giving credible insight into his character", OK and I agree. But last week he got the "good guy" edit. I have to disagree. I did not find him to come across as a caring "good guy", rather I felt like last week he merely wanted the information before anyone else, and he felt his alternative lifestyle gave him the right to be inquisitive into my daughter's personal business. And then tonight he was so sympathetic with Baya at the dance studio. I wanted to Barf! Personally, I feel that the caring JD is a facade, and the intoxicated JD we saw tonight is the real deal. To me it is crystal clear. I wouldn't turn my back on this guy. IDK, that's just my opinion.[/QUOTE] Welcome. New is good and so often refreshing. :heart: Perhaps there should be a disclaimer that appears whenever a comment from me appears on the board. I've been involved in the business of TV and film for a very long time. My perspective comes from my own experience as an actor, producer, director, writer and video/film editor. I filter through the prism of my experience what I see and what cast, crew and the occasional TV exec tells me. I also can't seem to write without allegory or illusion when there is hidden meaning that I add for the people at MTV and BMP. In this case, it is an "I told you so" from a question I asked Jon Murray last month. :diablo: Last week JD received what I would call the "good guy" edit, not necessarily because that is who he is (I don't presume to know), but because it supports the Katelynn storyline which is the message of episode one. I certainly would not doubt your description of JD's motivation last week or of this overall character, but that motivation is not material to the editors. Nuance is not the condiment of reality TV; it's a poison. We get the heavy hammer of 44 minute TV. Thus, Mark and the guys in the back room in Vans Nuy have a transcript of video and a "script" from the story editor to work with. They may by this point in editing either love or hate JD, but it doesn't matter. He gets packaged -- they all do, because they had storyboarded and laid down the majority of this episode way before Thanksgiving. The cast acknowledged this fact during their "Paley Center for Media" appearance in NYC last Dec. I didn't identify JD's "good guy" edit until after watching episode two twice. I thought of it last week, but didn't have sufficient information to infer production's intent. The end result is that we are going to be subjected to much more conflicting information about JD during the season, and that many fans positive initial of him will be greatly challenged. Inside the industry, when one uses the phrase "good guy edit," it usually means the opposite is the truth -- unless you are discussing a competitive/elimination show where there is one called the "going home" edit. Reality is almost all formula simply for cost of production issues. I'm sure are quite right about JD at the dance studio, which is why I questioned the cast's reaction to his upscale knowledge of places and people in NY. Given the backstory we are given of him, compared to the full reveal that I know could still be given, I simply put him in the "supporting actor" role in that segment which really was part of "Baya 101." Last week a cast member told us that a villain would soon be revealed. My earlier comments were designed to not yet let that cat out of the bag. I didn't expect so knowing a person as you to cut a hole in the bottom of the bag. :biggrin: Equally telling, for me, are the slow reveals of Scott and Devyn. I'm on the edge of my seat. :popcorm1: (By the way -- BMP is known for championing social messages, and I usually applaud them. In the case of episode one, I do so in wild appreciation).

January 15, 2009 - 11:17am

(Reply to #69) #70

[quote=Ag2422001;44537]I agree with everything you said. I felt that we really didn't receive a critical exploration of Chet or JD either. In general, the only storyline in this episode that seemed kind of organized was Baya's quest for dance. The other storylines were interesting, but they were kind of just kind of thrown together without a proper context. Hopefully the next episode is a little more complete. I think the problem is that they're trying to piece together too many stories in a single episode. I believe that if the season had 14-16 hour long episodes, the cast members would receive a complete edit. Anyway, does BMP have a say in how many episodes they want to produce or is it entirely up to MTV? On a side note, is it possible for MTV to order additional episodes (storylines that were left on the cutting room floor) for this season if the show continues to perform well in the ratings?[/quote] I agree with the storylines being put together piecemeal. Yesterday's episode seemed to lack fluidity. [quote=KENNYMOLZ;44543]I liked how chet handled jd. it's sad that jd is an immigrant himself, and hates on other immigrants. [/quote] JD's an immigrant? I thought he was born in the States. Baya's dance auditions reminded me of Julie from the first season, going to classes and whatnot. Baya also went to the Broadway Dance Center, where Julie took classes during her Big Apple stay. Cool. I was wondering why no one in the Crunch or BDC classes bothered to sign the waiver to appear on TV. Not interested in being on RW? Baya's dance techniques are good, but she doesn't seem relaxed and it shows on her face. She was grimacing too much. I am not getting the "Ryan's becoming more openminded" storyline. I'm not seeing it. Someone who was openminded wouldn't have reacted so disgustedly over a two-second peck on the lips. He still seems closedminded and has a lot of growing to do. And also, if he thought Katelynn and Sarah's conversation was boring, he could've easily walked away and found something else to do. Chet's family looked like they were from "The Sound of Music." I wish they'd show more Scott and Devyn (and as a fan and supporter of interracial dating and relationships, I hope they hook up). It looks like they show them next week, but it seems like the B-story to Ryan and Baya possibly hooking up. (Ryan, what about your girlfriend back home? :shok:)

January 15, 2009 - 11:29am

(Reply to #70) #71

[QUOTE=luckystar112;44523][B]I think that if you judged Trisha for what she said about immigrants during Australia, the same judgment should be given to JD. [/B][I]But to be honest, his comment didn't bother me as much as the way that he implied that he was allowed to speak that way since his parents were immigrants. I just hate that excuse.[/I] Plus, we all came from immigrants. lol. But he was drunk, so I won't judge him for it. [/QUOTE] see, I disagree with your first statement...imo JD was drunk...Trisha was totally sober and in a country that was not her own, so what gives her the right to say who should and shouldn't speak english. Now, I totally agree with your second statement...I come from an immigrant father, and sure I get really frustrated when people don't speak english BUT I do think that if they want to come to our country to live and work then they should at least make an effort to learn english and not just expect everyone to accomadate the fact that they don't. But will I talk shit about it them, no...BUT maybe if I was drunk and just trying to be funny, but that is just me when I am drunk...I pick on people, but I am an equal opportunist **** talker though...if you speak english and are 100 % American I will just find something else to rag on you about. (which is why I don't really drink...been in too many drunken brawls, LOL) As for Chet and Ryan...I know they are a bit mean sometimes...but they are just being immature boys...I hope to see them mature a bit, but I hope they don't loose their edge cause they are funny sometimes imo. They need to open thier minds, but I think it will happen slowly but surely. Ryan's confessional that was airing over the talk that Katelynn and Sarah were having really cracked me up where he kept looking back and forth like they were in there with him. I don't know about Chet though...everything about him screams gay to me, but I don't want to judge based on his style/ways...I guess he could jut be the non-musical version of Prince or David Bowie, LOL.

January 15, 2009 - 12:04pm

(Reply to #71) #72

[QUOTE=realitywedding;44553]I agree with the storylines being put together piecemeal. Yesterday's episode seemed to lack fluidity.[/QUOTE] "Lacking fluidity" is an excellent description. This happens more often than it should in TV and film, and is sometimes the product of someone in management saying, "The episode is 'good enough.'" I have to believe that if there were video of JD drinking somewhere, it would have been shown to us. For all BMP's extolling of their 3000-4000 hours of video, this one clip would at least have given us some context from which to intelligently discuss JD's motivation for his words. [QUOTE] I am not getting the "Ryan's becoming more open minded" storyline. I'm not seeing it. Someone who was open minded wouldn't have reacted so disgustedly over a two-second peck on the lips. He still seems closed minded and has a lot of growing to do. [/QUOTE] Growing up to do? Perhaps, but don't we all need to do that? :) Please trust me on this. I think it is more of a "guy" thing than anything else. Imagine the crap he would take from his Army buddies if he didn't react just a little crazy to that experience. It doesn't mean he didn't learn something from the experience, or that he would not go to a similar club with friends/housemates under similar circumstances. Given that Ryan is so into writing his book, I expect that progress in life comes through blatant and often awkward self-expression, and often self-deprecating humor. [QUOTE] And also, if he thought Katelynn and Sarah's conversation was boring, he could've easily walked away and found something else to do. [/QUOTE] "Let's go to the video tape," to borrow a phrase from Warner Wolfe, the NYC sportscaster. Ryan's inclusion in that scene, after establishing in a three-shot that he was there, was relegated to "drop in" cuts taped in the "confessional" at some later point (in the same shirt). We don't actually know how long either he or Chet were there. We are not supposed to know... The technical director later got what he/she needed from Ryan -- a few words and a series of reactions that the editors could drop in at natural pauses in the conversation between Sarah and Katelynn. At the end of the day, I think we are now supposed to see Ryan as a young kid whose background is not intellectual -- and whose comfortable level would included drinking a beer, *******, belching and hearing his buds debate whether Kendra Wilkinson or Tara Reid had better tits. He will probably rise above this station in life in future episodes (or so we should hope)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] Chet's family looked like they were from "The Sound of Music." [/QUOTE] They would have used "The Hills are Alive" as background music. :give_rose:

January 15, 2009 - 12:19pm

(Reply to #72) #73

Ag2422001

V1, does MTV sit down with the producers at BMP to review every episode? If the execs at MTV are unhappy, can they force BMP to change the episode?

January 15, 2009 - 12:30pm

(Reply to #73) #74

I was wondering why Scott and Katelynn didn't go to the gay club with the rest of the roommates, but maybe they had something to do...or work or something like that.

January 15, 2009 - 12:36pm

(Reply to #74) #75

LilysMom

[quote=Stacee_Danielle;44555]see, I disagree with your first statement...imo JD was drunk...Trisha was totally sober and in a country that was not her own, so what gives her the right to say who should and shouldn't speak english. Now, I totally agree with your second statement...I come from an immigrant father, and sure I get really frustrated when people don't speak english BUT I do think that if they want to come to our country to live and work then they should at least make an effort to learn english and not just expect everyone to accomadate the fact that they don't. But will I talk shit about it them, no...BUT maybe if I was drunk and just trying to be funny, but that is just me when I am drunk...I pick on people, but I am an equal opportunist **** talker though...if you speak english and are 100 % American I will just find something else to rag on you about. (which is why I don't really drink...been in too many drunken brawls, LOL) As for Chet and Ryan...I know they are a bit mean sometimes...but they are just being immature boys...I hope to see them mature a bit, but I hope they don't loose their edge cause they are funny sometimes imo. They need to open thier minds, but I think it will happen slowly but surely. Ryan's confessional that was airing over the talk that Katelynn and Sarah were having really cracked me up where he kept looking back and forth like they were in there with him. I don't know about Chet though...everything about him screams gay to me, but I don't want to judge based on his style/ways...I guess he could jut be the non-musical version of Prince or David Bowie, LOL.[/quote] SD first paragraph very nicely put. I have often wondered where the fine lines are drawn on this subject. The way that JD put it was my parents are immigrants, so that gives me the right to talk **** about it. ITA.... with the latter statement as well, Chet and Ryan bring in something I have yet to see on this show, they play off each other well. I really like Ryan, and I think that he has every right to be as immature as he feels the need to at this point. There was probably plenty of maturity in his 3 and a half years in the army.

January 15, 2009 - 12:48pm

(Reply to #75) #76

Why thank you LM :D [QUOTE=LilysMom;44564] Chet and Ryan bring in something I have yet to see on this show, they play off each other well. I really like Ryan, and I think that he has every right to be as immature as he feels the need to at this point. There was probably plenty of maturity in his 3 and a half years in the army.[/QUOTE] Yeah they have this dynamic together that cracks me up...the way they play off of each other is entertaining...and then I am secretly in the background waiting for Chet to confess his love for Ryan...I know..."he's not gay" but I keep waiting for him to realize himself that he is...or for him to bust out singing David Bowie or something, LOL. (Honestly, I believe him when he says he is not gay, but his whole persona makes it so suspect so I always have that little thought in the back of my head that starts yelling at me when he does something that screams gay...which is often, LOL)

January 15, 2009 - 12:55pm

(Reply to #76) #77

MizFit2009

Chet, Ryan and Baya were my favorites this episode. JD was my least favorite. Kat, Sarah werent shown enough. Scott and Devyn werent shown at all. Are they even in house?

January 15, 2009 - 12:57pm

(Reply to #77) #78

BrownBoy

So is everybody saying it's okay to begin disliking JD? Initially, I was holding-out on making judgements. I mean the dude [I]plays with dolphins. [/I] So, I excused his immigrant rant as a drunk guy trying to get a laugh. Sort of "mind of mencia-ish". But then I thought about it. He was all, "be sensitive to katelynn point of view before- but the immigrant thing showed no class. Surely, you can point to your lips or something Mr. Dolphin trainer. Maybe he just got a bad edit, but even last episode (*new found good-guy-edit-education applied to reasoning*) I had a raised eyebrow.

January 15, 2009 - 1:03pm

(Reply to #78) #79

[quote=BrownBoy;44573] So, I excused his immigrant rant as a drunk guy trying to get a laugh. [B]Sort of "mind of mencia-ish"[/B]. But then I thought about it. He was all, "be sensitive to katelynn point of view before- but the immigrant thing showed no class. Surely, you can point to your lips or something Mr. Dolphin trainer. [/quote] See, I was thinking the same thing, but there seemed to be so much hate behind his words...I don't know if anyone has ever heard one of Jo Koy's stand up acts, but he makes fun of his Filipino Heritage in a couple of ways like how his mom confuses her P's and F's and then that lead into how Hispanics confuse their Y's and J's but he keeps it light and funny...Sure it seemed like JD was joking at first, but he got really into it and started insulting the woman which is sad.

January 15, 2009 - 1:23pm

(Reply to #79) #80

[quote=Stacee_Danielle;44563]I was wondering why Scott and Katelynn didn't go to the gay club with the rest of the roommates, but maybe they had something to do...or work or something like that.[/quote] Devyn too. It looked like she was talking about going with them, but all of a sudden it's just the four of them. I guess it's more piecemeal editing. I hope she gets a real storyline next week. I can't think of one RW season where the Black girl gets so little screen time, even in these early episodes. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

January 15, 2009 - 1:28pm

(Reply to #80) #81

Anonymous

[quote=realitywedding;44582]Devyn too. It looked like she was talking about going with them, but all of a sudden it's just the four of them. I guess it's more piecemeal editing. I hope she gets a real storyline next week. I can't think of one RW season where the Black girl gets so little screen time, even in these early episodes. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)[/quote] I'm very excited to know more about Devyn! I have a feeling she's going to be a huge personality. :)

January 15, 2009 - 1:32pm

(Reply to #81) #82

k8mnstr

[QUOTE=V1man;44541]I can't read a single one of your comments without carefully considering the hidden meaning in each phrase. You are as revealing as my insiders at 1515 Broadway. ;) After two episodes, I do find myself curious about the other cast's reaction )(and the BMP crew) to JD seeming to know a number of high-end places and people in Manhattan.[/QUOTE] Oh didn't you know? JD knows everyone important in Manhattan. They've been friends for like, five or six years. I swear to God that was what he said [B][I]every time[/I][/B] we met someone out there. Hmm, it's almost as if JD had a connection. An older 'friend' whom he was 'acquainted' with... :locked:

January 15, 2009 - 1:35pm

(Reply to #82) #83

RW561015

[quote=Stacee_Danielle;44563]I was wondering why Scott and Katelynn didn't go to the gay club with the rest of the roommates, but maybe they had something to do...or work or something like that.[/quote] I wondered that as well. I wonder if they had a reason not to go. Perhaps they didn't feel like going out and the roommates understood. But had Ryan elected not to go, I wonder if the roommates would have been so understanding of him? To me it's not a big deal if the straight roommates don't want to go to a gay bar/club, because it's not their thing, but they often get looked at (by roommates sometimes as well as fans) as rude because they don't want to go. Ryan already said some things that made him look bad, so his situation is separate in that sense, but I wonder if he hadn't made those prior comments, was asked to go to the gay club, and then politely turned it down - would people have thought he was horrible for it? I will say that usually it is the way the roommate who is kind of opposed to going to the gay clubs usually makes a big deal of it, though, so I think that's why most people react negatively to those roommates when they don't seem to want to go. I actually kind of agree with KatesMom concerning JD's portrayal last week as well. While I thought he came off as a decent guy in episode one compared to episode two, I noticed something about him which was sort of parallel to Ryan in episode one. People were saying Ryan was overdoing it for going around talking about how he thought Katelynn may have been a man before, and JD was going around doing the same thing. I think he got a pass because he was gay, though. And then Ryan felt it wasn't his place to ask, at least. But JD in particular took her to dinner to find out. It turned out well and all, and he ended up being someone who Katelynn could talk to (at least at that point, don't know what happens later), but I thought it was kind of odd how JD was saying how this issue needed to be addressed. Really it was up to Katelynn to talk about it or not. I'm glad it all turned out well, though, but I thought it seemed like he made it look like he was taking her to dinner because he really liked her, but it seemed he was digging for info instead. But I definitely feel he looked way nicer in the first episode compared to the second. I think he has his issues from him childhood, and I hope he will be able to get beyond those and let the anger go. I know it must be tough. I am tired of MTV showing those horror commercials every commercial break. I know they are providing MTV with money and all, so it helps for airing shows, but they are really creepy to me and it's overkill. I also think MTV needs to show better preview commercials for the next episodes. For episode two they didn't have a real preview commercial - they were just talking about how there is new season of RW and all with clips showing. The preview commercial for the next episode shows a feature on Katelynn and issues with her boyfriend and her kissing someone in a club. That's much better, however, the little preview at the end of episode two showed a focus on flirtations between Ryan and Baya as well as Scott and Devyn. I just think they need to do a better job with it like they did in the past. Now show everything, but just a good idea of what will be focused on next time. They've done well enough in the past with it.

January 15, 2009 - 1:37pm

(Reply to #83) #84

January 15, 2009 - 1:39pm

(Reply to #84) #85

[QUOTE=Ag2422001;44561]V1, does MTV sit down with the producers at BMP to review every episode? If the execs at MTV are unhappy, can they force BMP to change the episode?[/QUOTE] Such things seem to be closely guarded secrets, or at least they are from me. The standard practice in the industry is for network execs to give "notes" to the producers, and I've heard that happens in this situation, The precise answer to your question, however, likely lies in the details of the contract between BMP and MTV. The relationship between the two has not always been peaches and cream. MTV does oversee the production, but they were not in the house and do not have the benefit of all of our careful study of the show as though we were conducting a proctology exam on Jenna Jameson. :) I've heard that MTV also does see raw video from the challenges, so I suspect they have a similar arrangement with regard to RW. Still, they have contracted for BMP to give them the Real World, so what they get is what they get in many respects. So with @4000 hours of footage, at the end of the day you have to hope that the production crew in Van Nuys does their job well. Against whatever criticism I may offer about production and individual episodes, the truth is that I don't know any other company that could do this production as well as it does. We should not lose sight of the fact that it's damn good reality TV. Frankly, any ******* can produce American Idol. RW is an entirely more complicated animal.

January 15, 2009 - 1:47pm

(Reply to #85) #86

[QUOTE=k8mnstr;44587]Oh didn't you know? JD knows everyone important in Manhattan. They've been friends for like, five or six years. I swear to God that was what he said [B][I]every time[/I][/B] we met someone out there. Hmm, it's almost as if JD had a connection. An older 'friend' whom he was 'acquainted' with... :locked:[/QUOTE] So you are suggesting that his expertise extends well beyond the specific geographic area around 10 Columbus Circle, a veritable cornucopia of all things NY, sage beyond his years? I thought he was the product of a troubled past, a simple dolphin trainer who sought a family of fellow life-journeyers. Color me naive. ;) All the makings of a great season, and fortunately not only for its patent "snarkiness"...

January 15, 2009 - 1:56pm

(Reply to #86) #87

RW561015

I'm watching the episode again, and regarding JD talking about the store worker who he was asking for Chapstick, it sounded like the person may have been Spanish speaking. It sounded like JD said the worker was asking which one, "numero" something or other. If the person was actually Spanish speaking, that makes it even worse since I think one of the roommates said JD speaks Spanish. And if the person was Spanish, I think he didn't say the derogatory term for Asian people that was speculated last night. I think he did really say the "b" word instead.

January 15, 2009 - 1:59pm

(Reply to #87) #88

So are you saying JD's an actor? I know some fake things and manipulation go on in reality TV, but nothing ceases to shock me.

January 15, 2009 - 2:05pm

(Reply to #88) #89

[QUOTE=realitywedding;44601]So are you saying JD's an actor? I know some fake things and manipulation go on in reality TV, but nothing ceases to shock me.[/QUOTE] To whom are you asking the question, please?

January 15, 2009 - 2:10pm

(Reply to #89) #90

It was a response to the few posts I'd seen upthread that implied that JD had connections. It was to no one in particular.

January 15, 2009 - 2:16pm

(Reply to #90) #91