From interaction between the two on facebook I would say they still talk...I am sure when the episode this happens in airs...she'll comment on it.(meaning katelynn)
I can't wait to see Katelynn's interaction with the other cast members on this challenge. I get what people are saying about her having an advantage over the other girls but I think there's a big of ignorance in these comments. She has been on hormones for years, she's not a guy who simply put on a wig and decided to call himself a girl. I don't think at this point she really is stronger than any other girl. In fact, I feel like someone like Ev or Kelly Anne would destroy her in a 1on1 but that's me.
PD For the person who criticized Sarah for not wanting to hang out with JD or the other guys, I guess I'm just as lame as she is then because I would never want to hang out with JD or any of those guys either (well maybe Scott).
Dannyboy I think they're criticizing the REASON she doesn't want to hang out with them, as in, she's too cool now because she's friends with Kenny and Evan and would rather hang out with the "cool kids".
I'm not saying that's true, I don't know Sarah or her reasons for anything she does, but I think that's the perception. I'm guess that's what Katelynn calls her out on.
i respect Katelynn for doing a challenge. im sure she knew going in that somebody somewhere would bring up the fact that it might be "unfair" and still she went out and did it, and i hope she does well
it angers me when people say ignorant things like that. She obviously was always a woman, she was just born with something extra. and she took the steps to change it. She is who she wants to be, and is 100% woman. so if anyone *****es that it is unfair, that is just ridiculous.
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;163072]I'm curious as to where this comes from, as it seems to be a common concern. If the whole idea is "zomghax she used to be a guy", it's not like I went from friggin' Scott Herman to Jillian. There's no advantage in athleticism, in fact quite a large percent of the meager muscle I had when I was a teenager was lost many years ago during the HRT process.
People need to sever that mental connection in their minds.
I wish I would get cast for something like a Duel though, because it would be awesome to show off my martial arts prowess instead of doing stupid *** obstacle courses.
Ouch. Like Kenny Santucci is going to win any personality awards; I've known terminal illnesses with more panache.[/QUOTE]
Katelynn you crack me the F*** up. you always have a witty thing to say. give em hell, girl.
I loveee Katelynn. I totally support her actually having the guts to go after Kenny. Unlike Sarah who sucks up and thinks she's all that when she's not. Goo Katelynn!
[QUOTE=Painterlyy;169324]I loveee Katelynn. I totally support her actually having the guts to go after Kenny. Unlike Sarah who sucks up and thinks she's all that when she's not. Goo Katelynn![/QUOTE]
If only she had Scott their because I know he would stick with her
[QUOTE=Klounsnax;164732]i respect Katelynn for doing a challenge. im sure she knew going in that somebody somewhere would bring up the fact that it might be "unfair" and still she went out and did it, and i hope she does well
it angers me when people say ignorant things like that. She obviously was always a woman, she was just born with something extra. and she took the steps to change it. She is who she wants to be, and is 100% woman. so if anyone *****es that it is unfair, that is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
That isn't ignorant at all. I am a big supporter of LGBT rights and the community as whole. I don't think theres any problem with girls that would find it unfair. There is a big debate going on in the Olympics about transgendered athletes. A man can run faster than a woman- fact. So if they go from m2f than they're going to have an advantage, even if they start taking estrogen. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about that. I don't think Katelynn should be banned from the challenges by ANY means. I just cant believe none of the girls wouldnt have a problem about it.
[QUOTE=RubenJay05;169329]That isn't ignorant at all. I am a big supporter of LGBT rights and the community as whole. I don't think theres any problem with girls that would find it unfair. There is a big debate going on in the Olympics about transgendered athletes. [B]A man can run faster than a woman- fact.[/B] So if they go from m2f than they're going to have an advantage, even if they start taking estrogen. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about that. I don't think Katelynn should be banned from the challenges by ANY means. I just cant believe none of the girls wouldnt have a problem about it.[/QUOTE]
Now, I realize I never went to medical school Dr. Ruben, but can you please explain to me what exact part of the male physiology makes them more proficient athletes? Is it a matter of body fat to weight ratio? Muscle mass? Something about the hypothalamus in a male brain that lends itself toward a more efficient endocrine system?
Or can we finally all ****** agree that the measure of a person's athleticism has positively [I][U]NOTHING[/U][/I] to do with any dangling particles, whether at birth or currently present.
For instance, hermaphroditic individuals (or those born with mixed genital structures) have no measurable increased or decreased proficiencies or capabilities compared to peers within their age/weight and lifestyle bracket.
The sheer fact of being male doesn't make one automatically better than a female counterpart of the same age group. I know plenty of college-age women that would run laps around their male geeky counterparts. That sort of mentality is not only misogynistic, it's so 1920s I'm pretty sure Gatsby came up with it.
These platitudes may be comforting to say, but they are pseudo-intellectual and extremely dangerous due to their miseducational side-effects. Yes, there is debate regarding Transgendered athletes in the Olympics, and there has not been a single iota of controlled, scientific documentation to prove they have any advantage over their counterparts; matter of fact, most of these athletes fall within the average to below-average range of their peers when tested.
The only advantage that might even remotely be conveyed is that the Transgendered athletes were exposed to their training earlier (due to gender stereotypes prevalent in society) and were given higher benchmarks to meet, thus guiding the course of their training.
So unless there has been some miracle evidentiary finding I have not been made privy to (and trust me, the Trans News Network keeps me quite apprised of current affairs), or you have some shred of scientific documentation, this conjecture really needs to be laid to rest.
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;169586]Or can we finally all ****** agree that the measure of a person's athleticism has positively [I][U]NOTHING[/U][/I] to do with any dangling particles, whether at birth or currently present.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry girl, but I gotta disagree with you there--I'm not an MD, but I am on my way to a DVM. And testosterone, which in males is produced mostly in said dangling particles, DOES lead to increased muscle mass. It's biology. Does that mean that EVERY male is stronger/faster than EVERY female? Absolutely not. It means that, on average, they will be, and with much less work. You even said it yourself how starting HRT (there are certain estrogens that act as "testosterone sponges") changed your muscle distribution.
I'm new here but I love Katelynn and think it is great she comes and addresses her fans (even her non fans). I do hope to see her on future challenges.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169595]Sorry girl, but I gotta disagree with you there--I'm not an MD, but I am on my way to a DVM. And testosterone, which in males is produced mostly in said dangling particles, DOES lead to increased muscle mass. It's biology. Does that mean that EVERY male is stronger/faster than EVERY female? Absolutely not. It means that, on average, they will be, and with much less work. [B]You even said it yourself how starting HRT (there are certain estrogens that act as "testosterone sponges") changed your muscle distribution[/B].[/QUOTE]
Actually what I said was that HRT changed my [I]fat[/I] distribution and contributed to minor muscle loss. However that's anecdotal because at the time I also stopped my usual course of training and my dietary habits changed as well. But, yes, in general terms men build muscle mass slightly easier due to their hormonal composition... that being said though, this is merely an average. Muscle mass alone is not the single predicating factor when it comes to athleticism or competitive capabilities, so this argument needs to be shot, burned, and buried.
I, personally, have grown extremely tired of having case studies and scientific research thrown out the window because it's so much easier for someone to say "men produce muscle mass more easily than women" and that be the staple of their entire case against Transgendered athletes. It has nothing to do with genitalia and everything to do with hormones and on the hormonal front opponents of Trans athletes lose.
[B]Period. End of conversation. [/B]
I could point you to various studies by Swedish scientists and coroners (regarding hypothalamus examinations) during the mid 90s and more recent UC Berkley and Harvard Medical studies (regarding endocrine systems and hormone levels) of Transgendered persons, and they would be summarily dismissed because people would have to agree that Trans athletes hold [B][I]no[/I][/B] competitive edge over their cisgendered peers.
And the word "athlete" is extremely misleading in terms of these Challenges anyway. People either aren't smart enough, resilient enough, or sound enough of mind to play a political game and get eliminated so they look for excuses and scape goats, and the Trans person is always the most convenient one.
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;169674]But, yes, in general terms men build muscle mass slightly easier due to their hormonal composition... that being said though, this is merely an average. Muscle mass alone is not the single predicating factor when it comes to athleticism or competitive capabilities, so this argument needs to be shot, burned, and buried.[/QUOTE]
But if this is true, then why bother to have males and females compete separately? I'm not saying that muscle is the [I]only[/I] factor, but it is one that certainly needs to be accounted for.
[QUOTE] It has nothing to do with genitalia and everything to do with hormones and on the hormonal front opponents of Trans athletes lose.
[/QUOTE]
That's what I was saying...I [I]think[/I] we're saying the same thing? I just made the point that most testosterone in males is produced in the *********, so unless hormone levels are somehow being changed (as is often the case in trans people), genitals do have to do with hormones.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169688][B]But if this is true, then why bother to have males and females compete separately?[/B][/QUOTE]
Because we exist in a largely patriarchal world and that would imply that there is some semblance of equality between the genders. Because if women were provided the same access, training, and resources at the same time as their male counterparts it would mean that traditional roles reserved for the female of the species would have to be weighed on both genders equally, and most men cannot fathom living the life of a housewife.
The Olympics of ancient Grecian times champions of various city-states were selected to compete in popular feats of athleticism as a way of exerting dominance over their rivals. A female champion would be perceived as a weakness in the city-state, which again speaks toward the misogyny prevalent throughout the ages.
If men and women were to compete truly equally and women were to win an average amount of the time, I feel as though the world would be a different place.
Katelynn, I am not a doctor, I'm stating facts. Of course, not every man is faster then every single girl in the world, but it is a fact that generally, men are faster runners and with testosterone are stronger individuals. People may believe that if you take the opposite hormones in your transition, then you will "lose" the physical strength of a man. This is something I do not know about. I merely am saying that I dont think it is possible, however, if hormones have a lot to do with strength, then I'll gladly admit I was wrong. However, I do know that a lot of hermaphroditic athletes have been put under fire for the basic fact that people believe this is unfair. I am not trying to say it is, I was merely asking if the other contestants never brought this up. I am actually really sorry this turned into such an aggressive argument.
[QUOTE=RubenJay05;169753]Katelynn, I am not a doctor, I'm stating facts. Of course, not every man is faster then every single girl in the world, but it is a fact that generally, men are faster runners and with testosterone are stronger individuals. People may believe that if you take the opposite hormones in your transition, then you will "lose" the physical strength of a man. This is something I do not know about. I merely am saying that I dont think it is possible, however, if hormones have a lot to do with strength, then I'll gladly admit I was wrong. However, I do know that a lot of hermaphroditic athletes have been put under fire for the basic fact that people believe this is unfair. I am not trying to say it is, I was merely asking if the other contestants never brought this up. I am actually really sorry this turned into such an aggressive argument.[/QUOTE]
Oh, see you missed the "generally" part last time you posted.
Give it a rest. Katelynn - 1. People of Vevmo - 0.
[QUOTE=RubenJay05;169891]topic over. however, i would hardly say it was an argument she won.[/QUOTE]
When we start going into the realm of "things we don't know" (i.e. the ideal world in which women were afforded the exact equal opportunity as men to do anything), you can't prove anything. Hence there is no winner to this argument, but beyond that, it's not even about winning. It was meant to be about opening people's minds to the idea of transgendered athletes.
It would have been nicer for her to have had a better experience on the challenge. It seems as though if people would have been more understanding of her transition like how they were on rw brooklyn..people wouldn't be making snide remarks. Hopefully if she does another challenge, people don't make it an issue.
[QUOTE=suz84;169913]It would have been nicer for her to have had a better experience on the challenge. It seems as though if people would have been more understanding of her transition like how they were on rw brooklyn..people wouldn't be making snide remarks. Hopefully if she does another challenge, people don't make it an issue.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that everyone should be 100% ok and open with her because everyone feels differently about certain topics but I think for Ryan to say that she makes everyone uncomfortable and basically degrade her as a horrible representative for the LGBT community was disgusting. I think it's sad that if someone like Pedro was around or if they decided to put another HIV+ person on the show, I could see all the roommates being uncomfortable and not as open-minded as the people from season 3. It seems to me like Ryan, Chet, Scott as heterosexual men handled the knowledge maturely. Maybe not at first, but they grew to love Katelynn and accept her- I can't say the guys from other seasons would be as open or even interested, and that is sad to me. Makes our generation look very shallow and ignorant.
[QUOTE=suz84;169913]It would have been nicer for her to have had a better experience on the challenge. It seems as though if people would have been more understanding of her transition like how they were on rw brooklyn..people wouldn't be making snide remarks. Hopefully if she does another challenge, people don't make it an issue.[/QUOTE]
My issue with this challenge wasn't about the people. I'm perfectly fine in a hostile environment where the only person I have to rely on is myself (and thereby my own aptitude and capabilities).
My issue was with the type of challenges and the inclement weather. I wouldn't even mind water challenges as a rule, but it was cruel for them to be in the pacific ocean in late fall without providing us with adequate wet suits. My apprehension toward water has to do with trauma experienced when I was a child (I watched my best friend drown in front me when I was younger and I've never been fond of water since).
That and, contrary to popular belief, we Transsexuals are not an aquatic people.
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;169925]
My issue was with the type of challenges and the inclement weather. I wouldn't even mind water challenges as a rule, but it was cruel for them to be in the pacific ocean in late fall without providing us with adequate wet suits.[/QUOTE]
Did you guys ever complain to production? I would have. But I mean, I think by maybe providing you guys with wet suits that didnt work very well was a way for the challenge itself to be more difficult.
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;169925]
My issue was with the type of challenges and the inclement weather. I wouldn't even mind water challenges as a rule, but it was cruel for them to be in the pacific ocean in late fall without providing us with adequate wet suits. [/QUOTE]
That's what I was thinking! I was there once in mid-summer and it was not that warm. Late fall must have been absolute torture.
[QUOTE=RubenJay05;169933]Did you guys ever complain to production?[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that if they did, it wouldn't have mattered. But if somebody got hurt like on I3 then yeah.
I like her, but I could see how her personality might annoy some people, for reasons that have nothing to do with her sexuality. she's just abrasive, and either doesn't realize or doesn't care when she's getting on ppl's nerves.
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