The Challenge Series: RW/RR (Generic Thread)

Road Rules (I only ever saw four so I will rank them) 1. Campus Crawl 2. South Pacific 3. XTreme 4. VR Real World (I've only seen since Chicago) 1. San Diego 2. Key West 3. Brooklyn Challengers (really no particular order) 1. Evan 2. Timmy 3. Mike/Coral Too many...lol, Honorable mentions: Mark, Derrick, Landon, Tina, Katie, Rachel, Theo Fav. Logo: Gauntlet III, Battle of the Sexes 1

[QUOTE=RWRRdude;185847]Paula may be annoying (not to me) but she does bring drama to the challenges![/QUOTE] ehh, not really.

[QUOTE=challenger;185856]I think the Rookies VS Veterans Format and Champions VS Challengers format are awful. It is too one-sided. [/QUOTE] Champions vs. Challengers might be one-sided, but not rookies vs. vets. In G2, Rookies killed it, while in G3 they got steamrolled.

[QUOTE=Darock1713;186080]What?[/QUOTE] Why I think Jenn is tougher than people think: 1) She was one of the only few girls to finish that challenge with the hanging tree branches. 2) She and Noor only finished 2 seconds behind Jill and Pete in the last challenge, even though Jenn and Noor had to do the whole thing in the dark. 3) I can't imagine Jenn giving up on a challenge like Jill did, and I also can't imagine Jenn pathetically crawling on the ground begging for Laurel's pity like Jill did. 4) Jenn has a far more impressive record when it comes to elimination rounds than Jill. I mean, who has Jill beat? Angel?

Here you cactus: Jenn vs Rachel RW: win Jenn vs Colie: win Jenn vs Susie: lose Jenn vs Paula vs Ashley: lose and I'm not talking about the key, just who won the 1v1v1, a loss is a loss Jenn vs Katie: win Jenn vs Kimberley: win Jenn vs Diem: lose Jenn vs Ryan: win Jillian vs Kina: lose Jillian vs Angel: win Jillian vs Brooke: win Jillian vs Janelle: win Jillian vs Darrell: win Jillian vs Danny: win Jillian also has won a challenge but I know that isn't what we're talking about. I'd say Jillian's 5-1 record is better then Jenn's 7-3 record. Jenn has won more but she has also lost more.

[QUOTE=faceless;186104]Here you cactus: Jenn vs Rachel RW: win Jenn vs Colie: win Jenn vs Susie: lose Jenn vs Paula vs Ashley: lose and I'm not talking about the key, just who won the 1v1v1, a loss is a loss Jenn vs Katie: win Jenn vs Kimberley: win Jenn vs Diem: lose Jenn vs Ryan: win Jillian vs Kina: lose Jillian vs Angel: win Jillian vs Brooke: win Jillian vs Janelle: win Jillian vs Darrell: win Jillian vs Danny: win Jillian also has won a challenge but I know that isn't what we're talking about. I'd say Jillian's 5-1 record is better then Jenn's 7-3 record. Jenn has won more but she has also lost more.[/QUOTE] Fresh Meat wins/losses shouldn't count. They aren't 1v1.

Jenn vs Rachel RW: win Jenn vs Colie: win Jenn vs Susie: lose Jenn vs Katie: win Jenn vs Kimberley: win Jenn vs Diem: lose Jillian vs Kina: lose Jillian vs Angel: win Jillian vs Brooke: win Jillian vs Janelle: win With no FM and Island match ups it is then Jillian's 3-1 to Jenn's 5-2. Jillian's record is just a little better but still better. I also want to say that is Jillian's and Jenn's FM match ups don't count, then neither do Wes' which then does NOT make him the elimination king. Eat that Wes!

Jenn has also done more challenges than Jillian so you can't say Jenn is better because of her eliminations. She has had more opportunities to eliminate people. I will say the only challenge Jenn actually busted her *** was on her first challenge, The Inferno 3 and the Duel 2. She was new and had to go into the Inferno 3 times where she won twice. And on the Duel 2 she won 2 duels, even though they were against people who weren't to difficult just like how everyone thinks Jillian's wins on the Gauntlet 3 are nothing impressive. On the island Jenn did nothing. She didn't even win her face off nor did she really do anything to get the votes to stay since Ashli basically quit. On Fresh Meat 2 she didn't do anything that impressive either. She beat Ryan and Theresa in an exhile which is not the most impressive thing in the world. At least Jillian beat Darrel which is an impressive win and she beat Danny and Sandy after those 2 got a good lead on Jillian and Pete but Jillian still won. I am not saying Jenn is bad but I wouldn't say shes better than Jillian.

[QUOTE=faceless;186107]Jenn vs Rachel RW: win Jenn vs Colie: win Jenn vs Susie: lose Jenn vs Katie: win Jenn vs Kimberley: win Jenn vs Diem: lose Jillian vs Kina: lose Jillian vs Angel: win Jillian vs Brooke: win Jillian vs Janelle: win With no FM and Island match ups it is then Jillian's 3-1 to Jenn's 5-2. Jillian's record is just a little better but still better. I also want to say that is Jillian's and Jenn's FM match ups don't count, then neither do Wes' which then does NOT make him the elimination king. Eat that Wes![/QUOTE] Yeah but Jillian only faced one good competitor IMO: Kina. And she lost to her. And if I'm not mistaken, didn't Angel give Jillian a run for her money? Not that Jenn's competition is any better, but I'd say Kim and Rachel are stronger than at least Angel and Brooke.

[QUOTE=rwrrfan;186114]Jenn has also done more challenges than Jillian so you can't say Jenn is better because of her eliminations. She has had more opportunities to eliminate people. I will say the only challenge Jenn actually busted her *** was on her first challenge, The Inferno 3 and the Duel 2. She was new and had to go into the Inferno 3 times where she won twice. And on the Duel 2 she won 2 duels, even though they were against people who weren't to difficult just like how everyone thinks Jillian's wins on the Gauntlet 3 are nothing impressive. On the island Jenn did nothing. She didn't even win her face off nor did she really do anything to get the votes to stay since Ashli basically quit. [B]On Fresh Meat 2 she didn't do anything that impressive either. She beat Ryan and Theresa in an exhile which is not the most impressive thing in the world. At least Jillian beat Darrel which is an impressive win and she beat Danny and Sandy after those 2 got a good lead on Jillian and Pete but Jillian still won.[/B] I am not saying Jenn is bad but I wouldn't say shes better than Jillian.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but you can't really use wins from Fresh Meat 2. Jillian did not beat Darrell. Jillian and Pete beat Darrell and Cara Maria. Same thing with Danny and Sandy. So as "impressive" as those might have seemed...they weren't one on one. So they shouldn't really be included.

[QUOTE=mph922;186115]Yeah but Jillian only faced one good competitor IMO: Kina. And she lost to her. And if I'm not mistaken, didn't Angel give Jillian a run for her money? Not that Jenn's competition is any better, but I'd say Kim and Rachel are stronger than at least Angel and Brooke.[/QUOTE] Sure, that is true, Jillian didn't go up against anyone great. I'm not personally saying Jillian IS better then Jenn, I just listed who they went up against and if they won or lost. I personally don't think either are that great. People seem to think Wes ihas a better track record then say Derrick because Wes won more exiles, but since exiles aren't 1v1 lets list their 1v1 rounds. Wes vs Derrick: win Wes vs Chet: win Wes vs Nick: win Wes vs Cohutta: lose Derrick vs Adam RR: win Derrick vs Ace: win Derrick vs Syrus: win Derrick vs Brad: win Derrick vs Timmy: lose Derrick vs Tyler: win Derrick vs Wes: lose Derrick vs Davis: win Wes has 3-1 and Derrick has 6-2. Technically that is the same but I think Derrick has a better track record because he had many more chances to lose but still pulled ahead. And using your theory, has gone up against much better competitors then Wes. Wes did beat Derrick but I'm talking track record here. I just like to use any opportunity to diss Wes.

The main reason Wes's Exile wins are overrated is that he had by far the least weight of any team.

[QUOTE=faceless;186119]Sure, that is true, Jillian didn't go up against anyone great. I'm not personally saying Jillian IS better then Jenn, I just listed who they went up against and if they won or lost. I personally don't think either are that great. People seem to think Wes ihas a better track record then say Derrick because Wes won more exiles, but since exiles aren't 1v1 lets list their 1v1 rounds. Wes vs Derrick: win Wes vs Chet: win Wes vs Nick: win Wes vs Cohutta: lose Derrick vs Adam RR: win Derrick vs Ace: win Derrick vs Syrus: win Derrick vs Brad: win Derrick vs Timmy: lose Derrick vs Tyler: win Derrick vs Wes: lose Derrick vs Davis: win Wes has 3-1 and Derrick has 6-2. Technically that is the same but I think Derrick has a better track record because he had many more chances to lose but still pulled ahead. And using your theory, has gone up against much better competitors then Wes. Wes did beat Derrick but I'm talking track record here. I just like to use any opportunity to diss Wes.[/QUOTE] True, but it's still subjective. Derrick's been on like, 13 more challenges than Wes. And although Wes' opponents haven't exactly been the best challengers to ever hit the circuit, neither have some of Derrick's. And even still, someone could disagree with me and say that someone like Nick Brown is one of the best challengers ever. because "he puts a lot of heart into it", or something like that. In my opinion, Wes hasn't been up against anyone "outstanding" (let's say, for example, top 15-20 which is again...you guessed it...subjective) except Derrick (who he beat) while Derrick went up against 3: Brad, Timmy, and Wes. And he went 1-2. So again...subjective. Just depends on how you want to argue it.

[QUOTE=molds13;186116]I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but you can't really use wins from Fresh Meat 2. Jillian did not beat Darrell. Jillian and Pete beat Darrell and Cara Maria. Same thing with Danny and Sandy. So as "impressive" as those might have seemed...they weren't one on one. So they shouldn't really be included.[/QUOTE] All in all though I feel Jillian has had to work much harder than Jenn. Jenn comes to the challenges already with an alliance. Jillian was basically out casted by her team on the Gauntlet 3 and at first on Fresh Meat 2 when everyone voted for her to go in. Jenn has never really been a target so she doesn't have to worry as much. Also with Angel and Jillians gauntlet, did you think Jillian would just quickly push her across the gauntlet. She was like 15lbs lighter than Angel and also when someone is pushing back, it makes it harder. Ryan gave Nehemiah a run for his money also. However Jillian still overcame Angel and Beat her. She also beat Janelle which wasn't to easy. Il admit her win against Brooke wasn't amazing but it was risky since they didn't know what all the gauntlets were at that time and Brooke was bigger than her. Yes she lost to Kina but Kina is a good competitor and everyone has their bad eliminations just how Jenn lost to Susie and Diem. I think Jillian is better because she works harder and has her back against a wall much more often than Jenn. That is just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree.

I have to agree with Molds. Exiles do not count. It's not 1v1. It was Jillian AND Pete VS. Darell AND Cara Maria (who got so flutstered and emotional the night before). Jenn has *****. She is a tough cookie. She is smart and would never ever give up on a challenge. She's also strong. Kim beat 2 girls before Jenn (Robin and Ruthie) and Jenn beat her easily. I know she didn't finish the race on FMII, but that's because she already lost, so why would she bust her *** for nothing? I have nothing but respect for Jenn. I think she is a great athlete and competitor.

[QUOTE=rwrrfan;186123]All in all though I feel Jillian has had to work much harder than Jenn. Jenn comes to the challenges already with an alliance. Jillian was basically out casted by her team on the Gauntlet 3 and at first on Fresh Meat 2 when everyone voted for her to go in. Jenn has never really been a target so she doesn't have to worry as much. Also with Angel and Jillians gauntlet, did you think Jillian would just quickly push her across the gauntlet. She was like 15lbs lighter than Angel and also when someone is pushing back, it makes it harder. Ryan gave Nehemiah a run for his money also. However Jillian still overcame Angel and Beat her. She also beat Janelle which wasn't to easy. Il admit her win against Brooke wasn't amazing but it was risky since they didn't know what all the gauntlets were at that time and Brooke was bigger than her. Yes she lost to Kina but Kina is a good competitor and everyone has their bad eliminations just how Jenn lost to Susie and Diem. I think Jillian is better because she works harder and has her back against a wall much more often than Jenn. That is just my opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree.[/QUOTE] That's fine, and I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you in any way. I understand what you are saying. I'm just saying that you can't really say that Jillian's win against Darrell was impressive and should therefore make her better than Jenn because it wasn't JUST Jillian that won. The Exile wasn't over when Jillian crossed the line. It was over when Jillian AND PETE were across the line. The not so great thing about these conversations is that you can argue until you're red in the face and the cows come home without being willing to change your opinion, and I've read lots of comments from people who I've agreed with, although they make completely different points. For example: I could argue that Wes is one of the greatest competitors because he came back time and time again in FM and had one of the worst competitors in challenge history as his partner. I could say that even without an alliance, he fights for himself and most of the time, does rather well. Do I think that he is one of the greatest competitors of all time? No. But could I make a case for it if I really wanted to? Absolutely.

[QUOTE=molds13;186122]True, but it's still subjective. Just depends on how you want to argue it.[/QUOTE] I'll try to break it down, lol. People Wes won against: Derrick: I don't need to say anything about him, he's proven and people know it. Chet: Chet almost beat Wes but I'd have to say that is because of his height. At least, I think he's taller then Wes. He didn't really prove anything on the Ruins though so I'd say he's neutral at this point. Nick: NOT a good competitor by any stretch. Went home first then second. Didn't put up a fight at all against Wes. People Derrick won against: Adam RR: While I don't say he's amazing, he's at least good. Looked at as one of the stronger males on the G2 team. He did good on G1. Ace: Ace kind of blows. He isn't amazing at all but he did fair decently on I3 making it to the end and winning the lifesaver when it was needed. The size difference was huge against him and Derrick though so I'd say Derrick's win over him was still something pretty big. Syrus: I think he's a good competitor. Sure he isn't in amazing shape but he's not bad at all. Like Ace, the size difference was huge. Brad: He's proven himself many times but just falls short of the win. I don't think he's as good as everyone here thinks he is but Derrick win over him is still big. Tyler: Tyler isn't bad but he isn't real good. Where people like CT, Landon and Alton fall in at a 10/10 I'd place Tyler at a 6/10. He's pretty decent. Davis: Like Tyler plus he went up against Derrick in something physical and is bigger then Derrick. Johnny: Even though it was a 1v1v1 on the Island, the second round was just Derrick vs Johnny, so 1v1. Johnny imo isn't GREAT but he's done good for himself. I'd say he's pretty good.

This is like going totally off topic right now with the whole Jenn and Jillian thing. I was thinking about the Duel and totally forgot that Brad completed the challenge faster than Wes did and the only reason Wes won was because of that stupid soccer thing. I found that ridiculous that they had that in the game. That was so random and unfair for Brad because Wes has played soccer a lot. I hate when they do things like that. Also if Brad won that challenge soccer thing, he would have won, and that would have changed a lot that has gone on now since Wes wouldn't have won a challenge. I also got annoyed on Fresh Meat 2 when Wes was saying he won the challenge that showed he was the best. He got so lucky on the Duel. He went into the Duel once and won 2 challenges. It is not like he crushed the competition. Also on the Derrick topic. I do think Derrick is a good competitor but I wouldn't say because of his challenge wins. His only challenge that he won where he did something was the Inferno 3. The Island was handed to him and so was the Ruins with the very lop sided teams. The challenges where he actually worked his *** off in were the ones he lost, mainly the Gauntlet 2. I just think his wins are somewhat overrated but I still consider him top 10 competitors in my book.

[QUOTE=faceless;186130]I'll try to break it down, lol. [/QUOTE] My point is that if you like (or in your case, dislike) someone enough, you can make an argument either way. FACT: Brad beat Landon and CT, two people I would put in my top tier of male competitors. [SIZE="1"][COLOR="Silver"]Sidenote: Brad beat Landon who was competing with a dislocated shoulder and CT who was disqualified.[/COLOR][/SIZE] Does that make HIM one of the best challengers ever? Not in my opinion, no. I could say that Chet has the potential to be one of the best because he came really really close to beating "elimination king" Wes. It could be a laughable statement after giving it some thought, but hopefully you get my point.

Jillian lost to Kina, but Kina also lost to Svetlana. If there was a one on one with Jillian vs. Svetlana who do you think would win? Probably Jillian. Svetlana even said herself on The Duel Reunion that while everyone else was running and training, she was just watching.

[QUOTE=rwdenverfan;186135]Jillian lost to Kina, but Kina also lost to Svetlana. If there was a one on one with Jillian vs. Svetlana who do you think would win? Probably Jillian. Svetlana even said herself on The Duel Reunion that while everyone else was running and training, she was just watching.[/QUOTE] Well, here's another thing to think about. I assume you're talking about the Duel Svetlana, as it's the only challenge she appeared on. But are you talking about FM2 Jillian, or are you talking about G3 Jillian? It helps to be specific. Are you talking about someone in their prime, or are you talking about how you think they would compete if you were to throw them into a challenge at this very second?

[QUOTE=molds13;186134]My point is that if you like (or in your case, dislike) someone enough, you can make an argument either way. FACT: Brad beat Landon and CT, two people I would put in my top tier of male competitors. [SIZE="1"][COLOR="Silver"]Sidenote: Brad beat Landon who was competing with a dislocated shoulder and CT who was disqualified.[/COLOR][/SIZE] Does that make HIM one of the best challengers ever? Not in my opinion, no. I could say that Chet has the potential to be one of the best because he came really really close to beating "elimination king" Wes. It could be a laughable statement after giving it some thought, but hopefully you get my point.[/QUOTE] I do get what you're saying. I tried to break down that list without being biased. I tried using the same opinion on those people that most people would.

Everyone has their favorites, and will back them up no matter what, so this discussion, about who's better, will never go anywhere.

Just so people know, I'm not saying Derrick IS better or Wes is the worst, I'm just comparing track records.

[QUOTE=molds13;186137]Well, here's another thing to think about. I assume you're talking about the Duel Svetlana, as it's the only challenge she appeared on. But are you talking about FM2 Jillian, or are you talking about G3 Jillian? It helps to be specific. Are you talking about someone in their prime, or are you talking about how you think they would compete if you were to throw them into a challenge at this very second?[/QUOTE] I mean that Jillian lost to Kina on Gauntlet 2. Kina then lost to Svetlana on The Duel. And I was just saying that it would seem like Svetlana would beat Jillian (since she beat Kina and Kina beat Jillian) but if they were to go on a challenge together right now, I think Jillian would beat Svetlana. Does that make sense?

It is all subjective, and it's really hard to say who is the "best". If you really look at it, you can make arguments for any challenge contestant. For example, people still hold Ruthie in some high regard because of her performance on BOTSexes, but IMO in every challenge since then, Ruthie has shown that she is nothing to write home about. Or even somebody like Alton, who was basically a beast on G1 and G2, definitely did lackluster (in comparison) on Inferno 3. And don't even get me started on Darrell, who is in my opinion one of the most overrated players on these challenges. So yeah, I'd have to agree with Molds that it's pretty difficult to determine who is truly the best on these challenges. Especially since we will likely never have a challenge where all the top competitors appear on together. It's difficult when every challenge has different competitors and missions. If you put Wes on a challenge with Ace, Dunbar, Danny, Adam, LT, and Tyler, is he gonna come off looking better? Probably. But if you put him on a challenge with Alton, CT, Landon, Timmy, Mark, Theo, Jamie, and Mike? Probably won't look anything special.

MPH, I don't know if you are talking about what I was talking but I was trying to compare Derrick and Wes to say who is definitely better but just their track records of elimination rounds that were 1v1.

[QUOTE=faceless;186154]MPH, I don't know if you are talking about what I was talking but I was trying to compare Derrick and Wes to say who is definitely better but just their track records of elimination rounds that were 1v1.[/QUOTE] No I wasn't. I was just kind of going off the discussion as a whole. I just used Wes since he seems like one of those people that people either think is amazing at these challenges or that he's overrated.

[strike]i honestly think Darrell is the most over-rated challenger in Challenge History. Due to the fact that he was on all the right teams in past challenges, the only challenge i give him credit for is Fresh Meat, where he really did well in the final mission.[/strike] I honestly think Darrell is the most over-rated challenger in challenge history. He was on all the right teams in past challenges. The only challenge I give him credit for is Fresh Meat, where he did really well in the final mission.

[QUOTE=challenger;186186][strike]i honestly think Darrell is the most over-rated challenger in Challenge History. Due to the fact that he was on all the right teams in past challenges, the only challenge i give him credit for is Fresh Meat, where he really did well in the final mission.[/strike] I honestly think Darrell is the most over-rated challenger in challenge history. He was on all the right teams in past challenges. The only challenge I give him credit for is Fresh Meat, where he did really well in the final mission.[/QUOTE] Even then, he had an athletic partner who did all the puzzles for him. Also, Darrell was going up against Tina/Kenny and Wes/Casey....not exactly the strongest teams that season. But I still like Darrell. His commentary always cracks me up.