The Challenge: Generic Thread

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428896]You can say it a million times. No one with a brain is going to agree. And Darrell is "middle of the pack" Seriously, are you 12?[/QUOTE] You guys don't agree because you don't analyze the older challenges and don't know how to rank competitors properly. And yes, Darrell is in the middle of the pack since he was at the bottom performance on both the Gauntlet and Inferno 2, and was the single worst performer in a mission twice (in Turntable on the Gauntlet and Batten Down The Hatches on Fresh Meat). You of course overlook the most important thing which is individual PERFORMANCE and just say well "he's won four challenges so he must be one of the best".

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428887]Please pay attention.[/QUOTE] I am and you're being ignorant and stubborn. Bananas might not be as physically able as people like CT or Landon I won't deny that. But the extent to which your are downplaying his ability is ridiculous. [QUOTE]I'm talking strictly about individual performance/statistics in missions (and elimination rounds) [B]and overall ability[/B].[/QUOTE] Social game and ESPECIALLY final challenges should be included then. What good is rating someone based on dominating single missions but ignoring a final challenge that requires sustaining that dominance over a longer time, requiring both physical and mental endurance?

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428897]You don't even know what logic is Just like you don't comprehend opinion vs. fact[/QUOTE] Opinion only comes into play when the competitors are close together in performance and ability, like Theo Von and Landon, Dan S and Landon, and Abram and Derrick for example. On the other hand, there is a big difference in individual performance and ability between competitors like Theo Von and Johnny (there isn't a comparison, Theo is flat out better overall).

[QUOTE=MTV Junky;428902]I am and you're being ignorant and stubborn. Bananas might not be as physically able as people like CT or Landon I won't deny that. But the extent to which your are downplaying his ability is ridiculous. Social game and ESPECIALLY final challenges should be included then. What good is rating someone based on dominating single missions but ignoring a final challenge that requires sustaining that dominance over a longer time, requiring both physical and mental endurance?[/QUOTE] Social game has NOTHING to do with mission (and elimination round) performance! And a final mission is just ONE mission (not to mention anything can happen in a final mission), I'm talking about OVERALL performance.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428906]Social game has NOTHING to do with mission (and elimination round) performance! And a final mission is just ONE mission (not to mention anything can happen in a final mission), I'm talking about OVERALL performance.[/QUOTE] Clearly you don't understand the definition of "overall". I'm done here, this conversation is pointless.

[QUOTE=MTV Junky;428908]Clearly you don't understand the definition of "overall". I'm done here, this conversation is pointless.[/QUOTE] No, you don't! You seem to just take into account final mission performances and social game.

[QUOTE=MTV Junky;428908]I'm done here, this conversation is pointless.[/QUOTE] Agreed...pointless. It is impossible to make a point to someone that lacks common sense and intelligence.

Including social game and challenge wins into your criteria would mean that Kenny would be better than CT. Can you see how DUMB that is?

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428910]Agreed...pointless. It is impossible to make a point to someone that lacks common sense and intelligence.[/QUOTE] You guys don't have any sense! The only ones here that do so far are theCloser, FreshMeat and Coralfan.

Kvm1977 says that Johnny is one of the best athletically but yet he cannot site ONE athletic based mission in which Johnny was one of the top two competitors individually.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428914]Kvm1977 says that Johnny is one of the best athletically but yet he can site ONE athletic based mission in which Johnny was one of the top two competitors individually.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding me? I've never encounter anyone this illiterate or with this little intelligence.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428828]Zach was paired with Devyn! Take away the pair format, and what then? Zach is easily a better athlete than Johnny and would certainly beat him in a long distance race (only puzzles would help Johnny).[/QUOTE] You understand that Zach had Devyn during the easiest part of the final right? Both Johnnys said they would've rather had Devyn for the kayak. I hope you understand that... For the next two legs of the race Zach had a superior partner (Nany>Devyn, Laurel>Nany) and he couldn't hack it. I think even you can comprehend this.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428915]Are you kidding me? I've never encounter anyone this illiterate or with this little intelligence.[/QUOTE] Name the mission! You won't because you can't!

Minimally Johnny outperformed Zach in Bar Crawl. He had a weaker second in command (Reilly>Brandon) and the girls didn't do anything aside from balance so they're irrelevant. Zach made horrible decisions and his team came in 4th overall, whereas Bananas led them to a win.

[QUOTE=JL81790;428916]You understand that Zach had Devyn during the easiest part of the final right? Both Johnnys said they would've rather had Devyn for the kayak. I hope you understand that... For the next two legs of the race Zach had a superior partner (Nany>Devyn, Laurel>Nany) and he couldn't hack it. I think even you can comprehend this.[/QUOTE] Zach still outperformed Johnny overall when you include all of the missions (not just the final). The bottom line is the best competitors (and teams) don't always win the final mission.

[QUOTE=MTV Junky;428908]Clearly you don't understand the definition of "overall". I'm done here, this conversation is pointless.[/QUOTE] Exactly, well said, but do you really think he is going to stop?

I do not understand the drama here? Is the problem is that some people underrate Bananas or overrate? Even if you add all together, he still wouldn't be number one :/

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428917]Name the mission! You won't because you can't![/QUOTE] You're right--he never won a mission on Exes or Rivas...not one. I truly can't believe ANYONE is this stupid but alas here we are. I hate idiots.

[QUOTE=JL81790;428918]Minimally Johnny outperformed Zach in Bar Crawl. He had a weaker second in command (Reilly>Brandon) and the girls didn't do anything aside from balance so they're irrelevant. Zach made horrible decisions and his team came in 4th overall, whereas Bananas led them to a win.[/QUOTE] Okay, but Zach outperformed Johnny in Piggy Back and Sausage Party.

Rating someone overall as a challenge competitor is not the same as rating someone's raw athleticism. The ultimate goal of The Challenge is to win. CT has failed to win for numerous reasons: lack of composure, poor social game, disqualification, etc. The CT today is more well-rounded than the CT from The Duel. [QUOTE]Zach still outperformed Johnny overall when you include all of the missions (not just the final). The bottom line is the best competitors (and teams) don't always win the final mission. [/QUOTE] You mean the best athlete, and even that is subjective. The best athletes don't always make the final because they lack in other categories i.e. CT.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428919]Zach still outperformed Johnny overall when you include all of the missions (not just the final). The bottom line is the best competitors (and teams) don't always win the final mission.[/QUOTE] Ok, and I think an argument can be made. But you responded to another post suggesting that Devyn was the reason Zach performed so poorly in the final, which is FAR from the truth. Zach's poor performance is on no one's shoulders but his own. Zach has won one of the weakest finals in the last few years and actually BENEFITED from having Sam because he didn't have to bust his *** the whole time and could keep slowing down. I guarantee had San Diego actually been pushed the whole race, the same result would've occurred. Zach doesn't have the long distance cardio that Johnny does.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428922]You're right--he never won a mission on Exes or Rivas...not one. I truly can't believe ANYONE is this stupid but alas here we are. I hate idiots.[/QUOTE] Exes and Rivals were pair challenges idiot! I'm talking about an individual based athletic mission. For example, Ladder Race on the Inferno 3 (Johnny was not a top two performer in that mission).

[QUOTE=JL81790;428916]You understand that Zach had Devyn during the easiest part of the final right? Both Johnnys said they would've rather had Devyn for the kayak. I hope you understand that... For the next two legs of the race Zach had a superior partner (Nany>Devyn, Laurel>Nany) and he couldn't hack it. I think even you can comprehend this.[/QUOTE] I love Zach, he was my favorite on Free Agents, but he wasn't the best at all. On the top of my head, Bananas and Cohutta outperformed him on the missions. For sure the kayaking was the easiest part, the current helped a lot.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428928]Exes and Rivals were pair challenges idiot! I'm talking about an individual based athletic mission. For example, Ladder Race on the Inferno 3 (Johnny was not a top two performer in that mission).[/QUOTE] And TOGETHER they had to win it. Not difficult Johnny's far better NOW than he was on Inferno 3--anyone with a brain would see that. I can't believe you're this....fill in the blank

[QUOTE=MTV Junky;428926]Rating someone overall as a challenge competitor is not the same as rating someone's raw athleticism. [B]The ultimate goal of The Challenge is to win[/B]. CT has failed to win for numerous reasons: lack of composure, poor social game, disqualification, etc. The CT today is more well-rounded than the CT from The Duel. You mean the best athlete, and even that is subjective. The best athletes don't always make the final because they lack in other categories i.e. CT.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about challenge wins, I'm talking about mission performance and overall ability.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428931]I'm not talking about challenge wins, I'm talking about mission performance and overall ability.[/QUOTE] And wins are part of "OVERALL"...think for once You aren't great athletic is you suck at finals--see Zach

And Johnny was overall the best male athletic performer on Exes because there was only one mission where they competed as individuals and Johnny destroyed CT on it twice(Lube Me Up).

[QUOTE=JL81790;428927]Ok, and I think an argument can be made. But you responded to another post suggesting that Devyn was the reason Zach performed so poorly in the final, which is FAR from the truth. Zach's poor performance is on no one's shoulders but his own. Zach has won one of the weakest finals in the last few years and actually BENEFITED from having Sam because he didn't have to bust his *** the whole time and could keep slowing down. I guarantee had San Diego actually been pushed the whole race, the same result would've occurred. [B]Zach doesn't have the long distance cardio that Johnny does[/B].[/QUOTE] Maybe not, but he still has better overall physical ability.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;428932]And wins are part of "OVERALL"...think for once You aren't great athletic is you suck at finals--see Zach[/QUOTE] Performance doesn't always equal a win! That's what you're not getting. Too many things can happen in a final mission.

[QUOTE=PaulX001;428934]Maybe not, but he still has better overall physical ability.[/QUOTE] You just said in another post that Zach would've [B][I][U]certainly[/U][/I][/B] beaten Johnny if the final had been individuals. Are you changing your tune now? Johnny beat him by over a half hour on the bike and then by over an hour on the mountain...the individual parts of the final. "Certainly" nothing.