The Challenge: Generic Thread

[QUOTE=El Scorcho;324675]That would be a horrible idea because if they did that then the new challengers would ban together and take out all the veterans who are outnumbered at which point the rookies would get a huge sense of entitlement and think they are superior to the veterans. They would also think they are better than the veterans, which is 100% untrue.[/QUOTE] Exculding the sense of entitlement....What's so bad abut that? I mean isn't that the same thing The Veterans do now? Take out all the rookies and then have a huge sense of entitlement and think they're better and the only ones who deserve to be at the end? I think it's High Time a New crop of challenges have emerged. It's been long overdue. BMP/MTV can't Rely on JEK and their little minions forever.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;324726]Exculding the sense of entitlement....What's so bad abut that? I mean isn't that the same thing The Veterans do now? Take out all the rookies and then have a huge sense of entitlement and think they're better and the only ones who deserve to be at the end? I think it's High Time a New crop of challenges have emerged. It's been long overdue. BMP/MTV can't Rely on JEK and their little minions forever.[/QUOTE] Because it doesn't make sense to shove vets out the door when they still want to come on and people still find them entertaining. It makes much more sense to have a good mix of vets and young people rather than just immediately skipping to the next generation.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324657]I really hope you realize this will never happen as it will as it will drive away a large percentage of the viewers.[/QUOTE] And do you realize that if they don't start phasing out these veterans at some point this show will eventually get canceled?

[QUOTE=tjhallow;324694]Well to be hair most of the FM who were on Gauntet 3 (Eric being the exception) are decent competitors. Maybe thats where they got their big heads from. Them being labeled as veterans wasn't weird to be because they were around with people like Coral, Theo, Shane, Tonya, etc. I think its weird that next challenge people like Jonna, Jasmine, and Derek are going to be labeled vets.[/QUOTE] To be honest, that's exactly why I thought Gauntlet 3 was so ridiculous at the time. The fact that people like Evan, Kenny, Diem, Casey, etc. were all put on the vets team after like 2 challenges or whatever. Simply because they were with people like CT and Coral, etc. So it was kind of ridiculous seeing like 7 FM people plus Johnny and Paula and whoever else all labeled as veterans. Maybe it was especially jarring because on Gauntlet 2 the veteran team all like legit "veterans" that had been around for awhile, with the exception of like Derrick, Brad, and Robin.

I just thought of something...remember when Rachel said on Battle of the Sexes 2 "we'll be doing the senior citizens challenges when we're 60"? I honestly think that applies to this current crop of veterans. Because I can definitely see Paula and Johnny (and a few others) being on these things when they're old age lol. Oh and Mph I agree. It was really dumb to put the Fresh Meat on the veterans Team IMO. Fresh Meat should've counted as their original season. Then most of them would've been on the rookies (Kenny would've been the only Fresh Meat on the Veterans team at that point I think).

Let's see: - We had Theo, Timmy, Coral, Mike, Rachel, Katie, Darrell etc. then they were no longer the regulars. - Fresh Meat, Key West and Austin took over for a while; the old regulars were sprinkled in here and there which is why later viewers know CT, Rachel, Mark, Robin etc. but don’t know what seasons they are from and other background info about them. - Once Fresh Meat and Duel came around older viewers complained “Oh, who are these new kids taking over? / These shows are not like they use to be.” and a new audience had embraced JKE and company the more they kept showing up. JKE and company took over for quite some time and new viewers have gotten too comfortable that the one minute they aren't on the show they’re confused and not interest. When you put Paula on 10 challenges straight viewers take these challenges like it’s a sitcom show and when you finally get rid of her they’re confused and wondering where is the star of the show (just an example). There should have been a balance long before this current challenge too. That's why I don't see any difference from what's occurring now compared to I3, Duel or G3 where JKE was shoved down our throats. We had to get use to them.

[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;324731]Let's see: - We had Theo, Timmy, Coral, Mike, Rachel, Katie, Darrell etc. then they were no longer the regulars. [/QUOTE] Theo said he stopped doing Challenges because he felt out of place :/ Rachel and Darrell haven't really been gone that long; I still consider them regulars..kinda. Not as "regular" as someone like Jasmine or Sarah

[QUOTE=YvanEhtNioj;324733]Theo said he stopped doing Challenges because he felt out of place :/ Rachel and Darrell haven't really been gone that long; I still consider them regulars..kinda. Not as "regular" as someone like Jasmine or Sarah[/QUOTE] Yeah, a lot of it had to do with them bowing out on their own terms and moving on. But it seems like the regulars now are not ready to let this go seeing as they have already done more challenges than old school cats.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;324728]And Do you Realize that if they don't start Phasing out these Veterans at some point this show will eventually get canceled?[/QUOTE] Phasing out which vets? They made an entire rookie challenge and we have the worst ratings to date. I completely understand people getting sick of JEK because of their actions on the challenges but as far as people like Coral, Beth, Katie..people ENJOY seeing them. The show has got to end sometime and at this point I have no hope for ratings. It is what it is. It's an old show, and no matter who is cast on what challenge some things are just meant to be laid to rest. Of course most of the people who watch the challenges are just regular viewers, they don't spend time on forums and following them on twitter and what not. My friends watch the challenge but they can't name 99% of the people on the show no matter how many seasons they watch. We were seeing things a different way because we have insider information. I think people need to stop blaming FM (I don't care what anyone says, anyone casted on a television show is called a castmember PERIOD). Everyone needs to stop blaming Frank, Evan, Kenny, whatever - it's just a new generation of TV shows. People watch the Kardashians, Real Housewives, Bad Girls, The Walking Dead, and the challenge and RW aren't just popular shows anymore because they are old. I think the only reason they are even on MTV because they are the flagship shows of the network. We can agree to disagree but I think blaming people for ratings is stupid. Just like the flavor of love, rock of love, daisy of love, I love New York, it ran its course. No one did anything to ruin the show, it just phased itself out.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;324728]And Do you Realize that if they don't start Phasing out these Veterans at some point this show will eventually get canceled?[/QUOTE] They need introduce new people while keeping veterans--it's a cycle. Not introducing anyone from NOLA2 until this season, for example, was a horrific mistake. No one said [I][B]only[/B][/I] include veterans--you need balance--a mix. This season lacks that. You have to remember not everyone watches The Real World--as much as you hate Fresh Meat I consider all new players "Fresh Meat". I know nothing about them--bring them in and let me see what I think of them as competitors and people. So far the newbies aren't impressing. They never have to phase out people. As long as they want to do challenges you can include them. Hopefully, you do thing well and find others that viewers want to watch (hence not Frank) so you can give them more and more challenges. And why wouldn't people want to do these into their 30s/40s if they don't have kids? It is a vacation where they pay you to go and do some stupid challenges with a chance to win even more money. Hell, I'm married with 2 kids and I'd gladly take a 3 week vacation once a year.

[QUOTE=tjhallow;324757]Phasing out which vets? They made an entire rookie challenge and we have the worst ratings to date. I completely understand people getting sick of JEK because of their actions on the challenges but as far as people like Coral, Beth, Katie..people ENJOY seeing them. The show has got to end sometime and at this point I have no hope for ratings. It is what is it. Its an old show, and no matter who is cast on what challenge some things are just meant to be laid to rest. Of course most of the people who watch the challenges are just regular viewers, they don't spend time on forums and following them on twitter and what not. My friends watch the challenge but they can't name 99% of the people on the show no matter how many seasons they watch. We were seeing things a different way because we have insider information. I think people need to stop blaming FM (I don't care what anyone says, anyone casted on a television show is called a castmember PERIOD). Everyone needs to stop blaming Frank, Evan, Kenny, whatever its just a new generation of TV shows. People watch the Kardashians, Real Housewives, Bad Girls, The Walking Dead, and the challenge and RW aren't just popular shows anymore because they are old. I think the only reason they are even on MTV because they are the flagship shows of the network. We can agree to disagree but I think blaming people for ratings is stupid. Just like the flavor of love, rock of love, daisy of love, I love New York, it ran its course. No one did anything to ruin the show, it just phased itself out.[/QUOTE] 1. Phasing out which Vets? who the hell do you think? John/Kenny/Evan/CT/Paula..Those Mf's need to be phased out. That's what I'm talking about. 2. as for what you said about Coral, Katie, Beth and such..you know why people liked seeing them? Because they actually were ENTERTAINING. They brought something to this show other than just athletic prowess and that's why people liked seeing them and that's fine. Those aren't the Vets that I have a problem with. 3.You're right this show has been on for a long time and with any long running show people are going to stop watching and it's not going to be as huge as it once was..But it can also gain new fans and draw in new people and I don't think it's wise to keep relying on tired old Overused veterans to do it. We have an assload of new,young,fresh Castmembers and they're not being utilized because of the producers relying so much on the veterans and Non castmembers and if that's the cast then why even bother doing Real World Seasons? 4.I really don't care what you and anyone else says...I will NEVER view and of the Fresh Meat as real castmembers. 5.So people you know that watch the Real World but yet can't name/remember them or anyone else when they come on the challenges? Short attention span at it's finest. But I guess that's common when it comes to reality shows. 6.Oh and you're wrong about the "of Love" shows..They didn't get "phased out" You know why they stoped doing them? I got two words for you..Ryan Jenkins. He single handely killed that Entire Frachise when he killed is Girlfriend/Wife and Himself. Look it up if you want to learn more. 7.And to reiterate..I think you're right about these shows just getting old and not having the viewers it once did but I think that's an excuse...Survivor, The Amazing Race, Big Brother, America's next top Model..they all have been around for quite some time and yet those shows are still going strong. So why can't The challenges do the same thing?

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324759]They need introduce new people while keeping veterans--it's a cycle. Not introducing anyone from NOLA2 until this season, for example, was a horrific mistake. No one said [I][B]only[/B][/I] include veterans--you need balance--a mix. This season lacks that. You have to remember not everyone watches The Real World--as much as you hate Fresh Meat I consider all new players "Fresh Meat". I know nothing about them--bring them in and let me see what I think of them as competitors and people. So far the newbies aren't impressing. They never have to phase out people. As long as they want to do challenges you can include them. Hopefully, you do thing well and find others that viewers want to watch (hence not Frank) so you can give them more and more challenges. And why wouldn't people want to do these into their 30s/40s if they don't have kids? It is a vacation where they pay you to go and do some stupid challenges with a chance to win even more money. Hell, I'm married with 2 kids and I'd gladly take a 3 week vacation once a year.[/QUOTE] I agree with you that not Introducing anyone from New Orleans 2 unti this season was a mistake...They should've already been in the challenge mix. Having a mix of Rookies and Veterans will NOT work and if you've been watching the challenges for as long as I have you would know that. Unless they're on separate teams (think Gauntlet 2 and 3) having a balance of Rookies and Veterans is not going to work because the veterans almost always target the rookies first and they end up getting eliminated. So the rookies never get the chance to establish themselves and build a fanbase because they are always eliminated/voted out first or they're too afraid to go against them. It always seems to happen and I'm tired of seeing it. Now there have been exceptions to the rule...but for the most part the new kids almost always go first due to this "rookies gotta pay their dues" BS. That's why I like that this current season...we get to see the rookies actually compete and strut their stuff without worrying about the Vets. And for the record I have no problem with people doing these shows in their 30's/40's if older castmembers wanna mix it up on these shows that's fine...I'm just tired of seeing the same old ****. That's all.

Debut, if you have such an issue with it, stop watching. Make your point, and MOVE ON. I have been reading the same stuff from you since I have joined this forum. You are not Justin Booth, and you don't work for BMP. You dont get to make the decisions. And not everyone hates Fresh Meat. WE GET IT. Oh and Ryan Jenkins was the FINAL nail in the coffin. Those Vh1 shows all had declining ratings, and they were on their way out.

[QUOTE=tjhallow;324775]Debut, if you have such an issue with it, stop watching. Make your point, and MOVE ON. I have been reading the same stuff from you since I have joined this forum. You are not Justin Booth, and you don't work for BMP. You dont get to make the decisions. And not everyone hates Fresh Meat. WE GET IT. Oh and Ryan Jenkins was the FINAL nail in the coffin. Those Vh1 shows all had declining ratings, and they were on their way out.[/QUOTE] I don't get to make the decisions but I am a viewer. And in case you didn't know viewers are very important and if people stop watching there's no show at all so I may not make the decsions but I (and many others that watch this show) ultimately decide the fate of these shows by our viewership. And I continue to watch this show because despite all the things that plague this show I still enjoy watching it (although you may not be able to tell). And believe it or not there's still castmembers that I like seeing so I'm not going to MOVE ON. How about you just not read my posts? And those love shows were not going anywhere. If Ryan Jenkins didn't happen I think VH1 still would've produced them. They were still one of the only things that people still watched on that network at the time.

I know this kinda random, but I ran into Brooke (Denver) yesterday at the bar I work at. She was really nice! I asked her if she would ever do another challenge and she said, "I'm so over that bull****." Lol. SO I guess we can put Brooke on the never going to see on the challenges again list.

I honestly think even if we did get Coral, Beth, Katie, Tonya & Julie all on the same challenges that ratings would still not leap that much. Honestly, the Challenges are good because I'm a die hard fan but I can see how people would think they're boring because they lack in the drama department. People just aren't interested in these shows, even if they pulled together an all star cast I just don't see it happening.

In regards to NOLA2 not being on a challenge until now, while I agree that they waited too long, I don't think NOLA was done filming when Cutthroat started. There weren't really any rivalries that season that could've been on Rivals (except Preston and Ryan but NOBODY wanted to see them on a team together). The only Exes were Jemmye and Knight, and I was surprised they weren't asked to be on BOTE. So other than Exes, they wouldn't have been eligible to do any of the other seasons.

[QUOTE=arilicious;324797]In regards to NOLA2 not being on a challenge until now, while I agree that they waited too long, I don't think NOLA was done filming when Cutthroat started. There weren't really any rivalries that season that could've been on Rivals (except Preston and Ryan but NOBODY wanted to see them on a team together). The only Exes were Jemmye and Knight, and I was surprised they weren't asked to be on BOTE. So other than Exes, they wouldn't have been eligible to do any of the other seasons.[/QUOTE] Well from my understanding Ryan and Preston were asked to be on Rivals but one of them droped out (probably Preston). Knight and Jemmye weren't even asked to be on Exes (don't know why though. They would've been better than most of the teams they had.)

[QUOTE=arilicious;324797]In regards to NOLA2 not being on a challenge until now, while I agree that they waited too long, I don't think NOLA was done filming when Cutthroat started. There weren't really any rivalries that season that could've been on Rivals (except Preston and Ryan but NOBODY wanted to see them on a team together). The only Exes were Jemmye and Knight, and I was surprised they weren't asked to be on BOTE. So other than Exes, they wouldn't have been eligible to do any of the other seasons.[/QUOTE] They actually were. Like mentioned earlier, Preston pulled out.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;324768] Having a mix of Rookies and Veterans will NOT work and if you've been watching the challenges for as long as I have you would know that. Unless they're on separate teams (think Gauntlet 2 and 3) having a balance of Rookies and Veterans is not going to work because the veterans almost always target the rookies first and they end up getting eliminated. So the rookies never get the chance to establish themselves and build a fanbase because they are always eliminated/voted out first or they're too afraid to go against them. It always seems to happen and I'm tired of seeing it. Now there have been exceptions to the rule...but for the most part the new kids almost always go first due to this "rookies gotta pay their dues" BS. That's why I like that this current season...we get to see the rookies actually compete and strut their stuff without worrying about the Vets. [/QUOTE] First off, I'm been watching the challenges from the very beginning. Having a mix of veterans and rookies absolutely works and "good" rookies have proven that countless times. Svetlana made the final of the The Duel, Sarah made the final of The Ruins, Emily reached the final of Cutthroat, Leroy & Michael made the final of Rivals without ever seeing an elimination, Jonna & Jasmine were the final female team eliminated in Rivals, Brittini made the final of the Duel II, etc. The list never ends--those that go and compete survive. Those that aren't ready for challenges go home--that's how it should be. They aren't "exceptions"--they battled and earned the right to stay. Even Kimberly did great in the Duel II which built her a fan base without reaching a final. Same with Jenn in the Inferno III. Without worrying about "the vets" (aka strong competitors that know what they're doing) this challenge has been a huge disappointment to many long-time viewers. You like it and that's great but that doesn't alter the fact this has arguably been the least competitive season since The Island. Also, which rookies this season have "built a fan base". SD2 is widely hated, NOLA has no real competitors with the possible exception of Jemmye and St Thomas hasn't shown anything as of yet other than Marie may be good socially. The rookies that are probably the most liked are Lacey (went home first which proves a fan base can be built even if you leave early), Devyn (because she's funny) and Nany (because she's kind of crazy). What rookie (first challenge) has proven they can compete at a high level so far? Even Zach (who I thought would be great) hasn't shown much of anything thus far.

[QUOTE=arilicious;324797]In regards to NOLA2 not being on a challenge until now, while I agree that they waited too long, I don't think NOLA was done filming when Cutthroat started. There weren't really any rivalries that season that could've been on Rivals (except Preston and Ryan but NOBODY wanted to see them on a team together). The only Exes were Jemmye and Knight, and I was surprised they weren't asked to be on BOTE. So other than Exes, they wouldn't have been eligible to do any of the other seasons.[/QUOTE] That makes sense but it was still poor planning. That's a long time to wait to introduce a new cast. Plus, if Priscilla and Nate were considered exes couldn't they create something false out of NOLA? Did any of them even kiss once other than Jemmye & Knight?

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324822]That makes sense but it was still poor planning. That's a long time to wait to introduce a new cast. Plus, if Priscilla and Nate were considered exes couldn't they create something false out of NOLA? Did any of them even kiss once other than Jemmye & Knight?[/QUOTE] NOLA possibilities, most are very weak but they have enough footage to make them all seem plausible. Rivals: Sahar & Mckenzie Ryan & Knight Ryan & Eric Ryan & Preston Sahar & Jemmye Exes: Jemmye & Knight Ryan & Mckenzie Sahar & Eric

[QUOTE=ILoveRW;324823]NOLA possibilities, most are very weak but they have enough footage to make them all seem plausible. Rivals: Sahar & Mckenzie Ryan & Knight Ryan & Eric Ryan & Preston Sahar & Jemmye Exes: Jemmye & Knight Ryan & Mckenzie Sahar & Eric[/QUOTE] Thanks--did Ashlee do anything on that season? I keep hearing that she could be a good competitor but I don't think anyone has said anything about her during that season.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324824]Thanks--did Ashlee do anything on that season? I keep hearing that she could be a good competitor but I don't think anyone has said anything about her during that season.[/QUOTE] Not really, she was the mother of the house and was pretty funny in her interviews but apart from that I can't recall her getting into any of the drama.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324822]That makes sense but it was still poor planning. That's a long time to wait to introduce a new cast. Plus, if Priscilla and Nate were considered exes couldn't they create something false out of NOLA? Did any of them even kiss once other than Jemmye & Knight?[/QUOTE] It was long overdue for NOLA2, I never understood that and their season had good ratings and pretty likable. I think they waited too long with Hollywood as well. Brooklyn, Cancun and D.C. were poorly represented too at one point due to the concepts/formats that didn't apply to them.

[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;324830]It was long overdue for NOLA2, I never understood that and their season had good ratings and pretty likable. I think they waited too long with Hollywood as well. Brooklyn, Cancun and D.C. were poorly represented too at one point due to the concepts/formats that didn't apply to them.[/QUOTE] Yeah. A lot of these new seasons got the shaft because of these formats that are so limiting. If they're going to keep making new formats then they need to make sure that it applies to a wide pool of castmembers.

[QUOTE=ILoveRW;324829]Not really, she was the mother of the house and was pretty funny in her interviews but apart from that I can't recall her getting into any of the drama.[/QUOTE] People say she would have been a great competitor because she was a college athlete. She would have been in perfect shape for a challenge.

[QUOTE=YvanEhtNioj;324833]People say she would have been a great competitor because she was a college athlete. She would have been in perfect shape for a challenge.[/QUOTE] "Not really" in regards to the question of if she did anything that season. I would love to see her on the Challenge she is probably one of the coolest chicks ever on the show.

[QUOTE=YvanEhtNioj;324833]People say she would have been a great competitor because she was a college athlete. She would have been in perfect shape for a challenge.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the info. I'd really like to see her do a challenge based on everything people have said. We need more strong competitors IMO.

[QUOTE=kvm1977;324835]Thanks for the info I'd really like to see her do a challenge based on everything people have said. [B]We need more strong competitors IMO[/B][/QUOTE] Thank. You. Jasmine, Nany, and Cara are alright but I want the heavy-hitters to come out and play; People like Marie, Laurel, cough cough Camilla cough cough, Rachel, Ruthie, and Ev. Eric from NOLA and Mike Manning are also two that I think could put up a good fight against the big guys.