Would you think it was racist if I posted... "Not another black diva" or "Seriously? Another Fillipino with a big voice?"
It rubs me the wrong way. Why does it have to be, "White guy with a guitar"? Why can't they be identified by their style rather than their race? That's what makes it racist.
I happen to like Phillip Phillips and that's why I voted for him. Apparently a lot of other people did too. I didn't vote because he was white... or because he played guitar, per say. I voted because I liked him better than Jessica. He won because he got the most votes. That's how it works. Any other argument is just stupid.
edit: I also voted for Kris Allen and Lee Dewyze.... and this is why
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP9jXHTtIyg]Lee DeWyze - Hallelujah - YouTube[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T62ksehioSA]KRIS ALLEN "HEARTLESS" ELLEN 05.21.09 - YouTube[/url]
Both of those performances were reasons why I liked them as well!
However, I did like Adam Lambert better doing his season of Idol, but the Heartless performance was amazing!
I guess you're not seeing our view point. The issue isn't their race, because like myself, and many others we don't care about the winners race. My issue is when a mediocre contestant wins a season, and has an advantage over the other contestants. You could look at articles that date back to January, when Phillip first audition, and people already named him the next American Idol (that's how much of an advantage being a Caucasian male that plays an instrument has on this competition).
After 5 years in a row no one can honestly deny the fact that wgwg have an advantage, and usually always win, because people think they're "cute," and "artistic" when in fact at best they were good, but not even close as good as the other contestants! Phillip even said it himself his voice sucks compared to the other contestants. You do realize it's been 5 YEARS IN A ROW! You can't say that there isn't a favoritism.
As a Hispanic male, if we kept dominating the competition I would also take an issue with it, because to say we were the best 5 years running is almost impossible, and it's obvious we have an advantage, and it isn't an even playing field.
Being a wgwg gives you a huge advantage in the competition and that's a fact.
Also I'm sorry but
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVOTfo7hJUc]Adam Lambert -A Change Is Gonna Come. Live HQ - YouTube[/url] Better than anything that Kris has done
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDkaPN4iOeU]Crystal Bowersox Up To The Mountain - YouTube[/url]I can't believe out of tune Lee beat her!! She was up & beyond better than him! Almost never missed a note, unlike Lee who sounded lie a dying cat most of the time, and never was consistent.
Plus I can't BELIEVE Phillip beat her:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usn3o3kle44]Elise Testone: Whole Lotta Love - Top 9 - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url]
her:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYhyv77-U8]Hollie Cavanagh: Rolling In The Deep - Top 7 Redux - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url]
him:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tp8GWdL6fo&feature=relmfu]Colton Dixon: Love The Way You Lie - Top 7 - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url]
her:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRaXL_8Ax4]Skylar Laine: Wind Beneath My Wings - Top 8 - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url] Seriously how did he beat her?
and these two!:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4babjH3QF8]Joshua Ledet: It's A Man's Man's Man's World - Top 4 - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8xrlOUvyEI]Jessica Sanchez: And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going - Top 4 - AMERICAN IDOL SEASON 11 - YouTube[/url]
ALL of those performances are better than anything Phillip has done ALL competition. Phillip should have gone home the minute he tried to sing "Time of the season"
I'm not even going to get anything for Scotty, because I like him but there were soooo many better singers than him.
If your issue is his "mediocre performance", say that. Say "Another ****** singer wins". Don't group them by race. It isn't cool.. regardless of the race.
I really hate race categorization anyway. It's stupid.
It's a fact that being a white guy gives you an advantage on this competition? Ok. This conversation is over.
I can think of people who are vocally better than most of the people on my playlist, but the better singers are not in my playlist. Also, if I were a producer, I would look at a person who plays an instrument as someone who can probably write their own songs and maybe have something we could work with. If someone does not play an instrument, then I would assume that I would have to buy all their songs for them. Musicians also tend to have their own style, while singers might need to have to find a fit. I don't know what each voter or even the bulk of voters thought, but I feel that Phillip Phillips is a fine, qualified choice. I personally thought Jason Castro should have won his season, but America thought different, for instance. As far as I know, Scotty McCreery and Ruben Studdard were the only 2 Idol winners to have #1 albums, so it isn't as if non-WGWG have gone on to major Billboard success either.
[QUOTE=Bella;305946]Would you think it was racist if I posted... "Not another black diva" or "Seriously? Another Fillipino with a big voice?"
It rubs me the wrong way. Why does it have to be, "White guy with a guitar"? Why can't they be identified by their style rather than their race? That's what makes it racist.
I happen to like Phillip Phillips and that's why I voted for him. Apparently a lot of other people did too. I didn't vote because he was white... or because he played guitar, per say. I voted because I liked him better than Jessica. He won because he got the most votes. That's how it works. Any other argument is just stupid.
edit: I also voted for Kris Allen and Lee Dewyze.... and this is why
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP9jXHTtIyg]Lee DeWyze - Hallelujah - YouTube[/url]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T62ksehioSA]KRIS ALLEN "HEARTLESS" ELLEN 05.21.09 - YouTube[/url][/QUOTE] Uh not really Bella. Just because we see it for what it is doesn't make it racist, come on now. Bella be real.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;305951]Maybe a Black Guy with a Banjo will win next time. Just never know.[/QUOTE]
Except we don't do banjos so that is moot.
[QUOTE=Bella;305965]If your issue is his "mediocre performance", say that. Say "Another ****** singer wins". Don't group them by race. It isn't cool.. regardless of the race.
I really hate race categorization anyway. It's stupid.
It's a fact that being a white guy gives you an advantage on this competition? Ok. This conversation is over.[/QUOTE]
Like I said before nobody is grouping them by race. Be serious.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;305974][url=http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/26/phillip-phillips-american-idol-surgery-kidney/]Phillip Phillips -- Under the Knife On Tuesday | TMZ.com[/url][/QUOTE]
From what I've been hearing this is surgery 9.
How can you say no one is grouping them by race? An earlier post said one winning requirement is to be a white male.
That's like saying "The apple has to be green but I'm not grouping it by color."
Perhaps you, Nostalgic, should be "real".
Pointing out that Phillip is white is not racist. Saying that you must be white to win, or that he only won because he is white... is EXTREMELY racist. I'm sorry if you can't see that.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;305968]I can think of people who are vocally better than most of the people on my playlist, but the better singers are not in my playlist. Also, if I were a producer, I would look at a person who plays an instrument as someone who can probably write their own songs and maybe have something we could work with. If someone does not play an instrument, then I would assume that I would have to buy all their songs for them. Musicians also tend to have their own style, while singers might need to have to find a fit. I don't know what each voter or even the bulk of voters thought, but I feel that Phillip Phillips is a fine, qualified choice. I personally thought Jason Castro should have won his season, but America thought different, for instance. [B]As far as I know, Scotty McCreery and Ruben Studdard were the only 2 Idol winners to have #1 albums, so it isn't as if non-WGWG have gone on to major Billboard success either[/B].[/QUOTE]
O.o Did you not know that Carrie Underwood has 3 #1 albums (her last album was #1 for 2 weeks on Billboard 200, just 2 weeks ago, and she has sold more albums than any Idol)
Kelly Clarkson also had #1 albums, and she topped the Hot 100 with her latest single "Stronger", and she sold +20 million albums worldwide.
Jordin Sparks may have only one platinum album, but her single sales are amazing, she had plenty of hits "Battlefield" "No air" "Tattoo" "One Step at a time" etc.
Fantasia just had a #1 album last September and went Gold (granted she has her own reality tv show on vh1 and her album sold well, because of her attempt at suicide story).
In total the only 4 female winners totaled +30 million albums
the 6 male winners (mainly wgwg) totaled +7 million album
Also out of the 6 male winners, only 2 have their major record deal. That means 4/6 have been dropped by their label cause of low sales (only Scotty & Kris are signed).
All 4 female winners still have their major label contract.
I think it's obvious non-wgwg winners have been more successful. So it's obvious that the voting public is getting it wrong the past few years, and they have been favoring a certain type of contestant (wgwg).
[QUOTE=Bella;305990]How can you say no one is grouping them by race? An earlier post said one winning requirement is to be a white male.
That's like saying "The apple has to be green but I'm not grouping it by color."
Perhaps you, Nostalgic, should be "real".
Pointing out that Phillip is white is not racist. Saying that you must be white to win, or that he only won because he is white... is EXTREMELY racist. I'm sorry if you can't see that.[/QUOTE]
No one is criticizing the fact that they're white. We are pointing out the fact, and common denominator of the past 5 winners. It even seems a girl will never win again (no matter her race). You want a girl with personality, Lauren tried but didn't win, a girl with a big voice Jessica tried but didn't win, an artistic girl Crystal tried and didn't win...it's sad that a girl needs to have a certain formula (and be all 3) just to win this competition.
There has been 11 seasons of Idol, that has equaled to a total of 22 finalist. Out of 22 finalist 19 have been a Caucasian male. There's only been 2 finals (season 1 and 3) when a Caucasian MALE hasn't been part of the final 2, 19/22. You can't seriously just say it's racist to point out they're Caucasian males, when the facts show they have an advantage on the show. Like I said before I don't care about that fact, but what bothers me is when a mediocre singer wins.
We are pointing out the reason why the mediocre singer wins, and it's a common denominator this past five years. They're Southern, handsome, polite, "aww shucks," guitar playing Caucasian males. People vote for them, because of personality and because they want to date them, and it's obvious it's not cause of talent. Do you know the technical difficulty it is to sing "And I am telling you" or "Where do broken hearts go"? Phillip sings the same 3 notes, and uses his guitar, and it's viewed as "artistic" or "unique", this is hilarious to me, because I could YouTube someone that's exactly like Phillip, or maybe even BETTER!
This is a perfect article explain what I feel!
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-prudom/american-idol-phillip-phillips_b_1541360.html]Laura Prudom: 'American Idol': Why Phillip Phillips And The White Guy With Guitar Trend Are Bad For Business[/url]
"This show has always been a popularity contest more than a talent contest, with the attractive, marketable guys given an edge, even over superior voices. David Cook versus David Archuleta; Kris Allen versus Adam Lambert; Lee DeWyze versus Crystal Bowersox; Scotty McCreery versus Lauren Alaina, and now Phillip Phillips versus Jessica Sanchez; in most, if not all cases, the artists with superior range or technical ability lost out to an army of increasingly indistinguishable White Guys With Guitars, each (with the exception of country crooner Scotty McCreery) trading in the same inoffensive soft/alt-rock melodies that can easily get lost in an already crowded male marketplace."
Why is this an issue, you may ask? Why not let the excitable teenage girls (and the older women who should probably know better) have their fun and flood the phone lines with votes for these attractive, guitar-plucking fellas? Simply put, because those attractive, guitar-plucking fellas don't actually do that well once they've ventured out of "Idol's" protective embrace and are expected to sell albums under their own steam -- and that's a problem for "Idol" as much as for the winners themselves...."
This is my point... Whether or not you are trying to be racist, it comes off that way. Plus, I just find it annoying.
If you aren't saying they're winning because they're white, then identifying them that way makes no more sense than being upset because more blondes have won than brunettes. These guys may all be white, or have the ability to play guitar, but their styles are all different. Are Heejun and Jessica alike just because they're both Asian? Not even close. If I were to be upset because Heejun won one season then Jessica the next because "another Asian won", that would be silly. The white guy with guitar argument is asanine.
Side note: Heejun was my favorite. I voted him for two hours straight every single week. lol
[QUOTE=Bella;305990]
Perhaps you, Nostalgic, should be "real".
Pointing out that Phillip is white is not racist. Saying that you must be white to win, or that he only won because he is white... is EXTREMELY racist. I'm sorry if you can't see that.[/QUOTE]
I always keep it realistic (well win I want too, xD) so let's not go there anymore, Bella; Its just America Idol.
And you know darn well I never said he/you must be white to win. I'm/we're just pointing out the trend they tend to be setting by having 5 straight white guitar winners. The fact that you don't find that the least bit odd, color aside, is troubling.
Anyway,since it is currently offending you, I'll back off.
[QUOTE=producer88;305905]
[url=http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=13637][img]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/7184fbfe705ce53b.jpg[/img][/url][/QUOTE]
No. What I know darn well is that this was posted.
I couldn't care less about who won. You vote. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. It's the nature of the beast. What works me up is the constant complaining for stupid reasons. WGWG is stupid and comes across racist. Phillip Phillips won because more people voted for him. Taste is subjective. What makes any of you the authority on why anyone wins? The only fact that anyone knows, "darn well" is that he got more votes than Jessica. Maybe he'll have a great career. Maybe Jessica will sell more records. Maybe I'll marry Heejun Han. Who cares? If you like their stuff, buy it. If you don't, don't.
[QUOTE=Bella;306004]No. What I know darn well is that this was posted.
I couldn't care less about who won. You vote. Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose. It's the nature of the beast. What works me up is the constant complaining for stupid reasons. WGWG is stupid and comes across racist. Phillip Phillips won because more people voted for him. Taste is subjective. What makes any of you the authority on why anyone wins? The only fact that anyone knows, "darn well" is that he got more votes than Jessica. Maybe he'll have a great career. Maybe Jessica will sell more records. Maybe I'll marry Heejun Han. Who cares? If you like their stuff, buy it. If you don't, don't.[/QUOTE]
I agree with Nostalgic, of you don't find it odd that a white male with guitar has won 5 years in a row (all of them country singer/sngwriter type), and them not being the best if their seasons as well, than I don't know what to tell you.
I'm just citing all the news articles from New York Times, ABC, NBC, LA Times, and the Huffington Post (I hope you read the article I posted), have made the same statement about white male guitarist have dominated the competition 5 years in a row. We are just pointing at the facts.Even white male journalist used wgwg, and talk about the dominance and negatives of white male guitarist winners the past few years.
I bet money next season, if they cast a wgwg again in the Top 24, he will at least make the Top 3. No matter how he performs! You're the first person I heard from that said that comes across racist when in fact, an actual case could be made that race also plays a big part on Idol, but Im not going to get into that, because I personally wantto believe everyone in America is voting based on talent, and not race.
I'm sure the major news networks won't use wgwg if it was considered racist, or in bad taste. We are just pointing at a fact. Since, I guess you're finding the topic offensive, I'm also going to back down, because that wasn't the point of what I was trying to make.
On a side note, I expect ratings to plummet again next season, especially if they don't change things up, mainly cause the show got soooooo predictable now. I'm laughing so much at articles & blogs made back in January on the first night, when they declared Phillip the winner of the season hahaha, talk about getting it 100%, I should have bet money on it, easy money. Anyways, hopefully they take away instruments, and make the show about VOCALS again like season 1-6, contestants couldn't use instruments.
[QUOTE=producer88;306006]I agree with Nostalgic, of you don't find it odd that a white male with guitar has won 5 years in a row[B] (all of them country singer/sngwriter type[/B]), and them not being the best if their seasons as well, than I don't know what to tell you.
I'm just citing all the news articles from New York Times, ABC, NBC, LA Times, and the Huffington Post (I hope you read the article I posted), have made the same statement about white male guitarist have dominated the competition 5 years in a row. We are just pointing at the facts.Even white male journalist used wgwg, and talk about the dominance and negatives of white male guitarist winners the past few years. [/QUOTE]
That may be a bigger clue than the race or gender as to why they won.
As a side-note: News Networks/papers will run with pretty much any phrase that floats around out there that might get them a few readers/viewers and make them sound smart. The industry is really an **** of quasi-intellectual plagiarism since that is cheaper than actually having a lot of journalists and letting them be journalists. It is more important to have an over-priced marquee name than to have have a train-load of talented people who actually use their minds in their field. We now have a press that is collectively more interested in smart-*** than smart.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;306007]That may be a bigger clue than the race or gender as to why they won.
As a side-note: News Networks/papers will run with pretty much any phrase that floats around out there that might get them a few readers/viewers and make them sound smart. The industry is really an **** of quasi-intellectual plagiarism since that is cheaper than actually having a lot of journalists and letting them be journalists. It is more important to have an over-priced marquee name than to have have a train-load of talented people who actually use their minds in their field. We now have a press that is collectively more interested in smart-*** than smart.[/QUote]
At first I thought it was the genre & style, but that can't be it because season 9 was cast with a lot of girls in the same genre/style yet by Top 5 there was only one girl left standing (Crystal), and 4 girls went home in a row. During season 10 (when Scotty won) 5 girls went home in a row. There's an obvious bias to male contestants, and between them there's a preference to the Caucasian male than to the minority.
I don't know what happen to girl power, but this show needs it BADLY!! Especially that the female winners out performed the male winners. Kelly Clarkson total album sales alone is higher than all 7 winners combined! I bet if she were to audition now, she probably will lose!
Carrie Underwood debut album sold more than all male winners combined, and that's sad!! Her first album sold about 7.8 million, I think it went 8x platinum, and the guys totals is really around 6.8-7.2 million.
Lets say Jessica ends up selling amazingly well, would the show be hurt by the fact she finished second and not first? I do not see how that would really matter, if she completely destroys Phillip; the show would talk her up to a very strong degree.
I also prefer the type of music that Cook, Kris and Phillip put out to the runner ups of their prospective seasons. We also know that even if Crystal won she would have sold just as poorly as Lee, sadly.
Also, Kelly and Carrie are special. To me Kelly Clarkson is the best singer currently on the charts.
[QUOTE=Aereas;306020]What[B] I don't understand is why[/B] girls are voting for these guys (based on the assumption they want to date them). Lee & PP are both butt ugly.[/QUOTE]
Hormones...
[QUOTE=DScott;306023]Lets say Jessica ends up selling amazingly well, would the show be hurt by the fact she finished second and not first? I do not see how that would really matter, if she completely destroys Phillip; the show would talk her up to a very strong degree.
I also prefer the type of music that Cook, Kris and Phillip put out to the runner ups of their prospective seasons. We also know that even if Crystal won she would have sold just as poorly as Lee, sadly.
Also, Kelly and Carrie are special. To me Kelly Clarkson is the best singer currently on the charts.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you. I honestly believe the problem is that a lot of the people who prefer their music are people who aren't buying albums. That is where the discrepancy lies here. I'm guilty of it. I voted my buns off for Kris Allen, but I don't own any of his singles. Not one of his songs is on my ipod. I do have a few by Lee Dewyze.. but that's not the point. This show is about who America prefers... not who America is going to buy into after the fact. Obviously that isn't the point of the show.. but that is what it has become... and I firmly believe it has nothing to do with race or gender. At least, in my own experience, I can never guess who a person wants to vote for based on those things.
[QUOTE=Bella;306031]I agree with you. I honestly believe the problem is that a lot of the people who prefer their music are people who aren't [B]buying albums[/B]. [/QUOTE]
Those still exist. LOL. (I'm kidding. I still buy CD's) The main voter pool at IA might actually be the same ones who download from [I]those[/I] websites where no money changes hand. That might also be the problem.
[QUOTE=FishHooks;306037]Those still exist. LOL. (I'm kidding. I still buy CD's) The main voter pool at IA might actually be the same ones who download from [I]those[/I] websites where no money changes hand. That might also be the problem.[/QUOTE]
Digital albums. lol.
[QUOTE=Bella;306064]Digital albums. lol.[/QUOTE]
Just get the singles you like. Digital albums not worth the money. If there are three songs on it I like, I buy the CD and convert it if I choose to own any of it.
[url=http://www.mjsbigblog.com/phillip-phillips-home-makes-american-idol-history-bows-at-2-on-digital-chart.htm]Phillip Phillips "Home" Makes American Idol History, Bows at #2 on Digital Chart | American Idol, Phillip Phillips | mjsbigblog[/url]. Also there was an interview with Nigel Lythgoe where he spoke of how he does not care at all who wins.
Steven Tyler and J.Lo quit
[url=http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-with-steven-tyler-jennifer-lopez-out-the-american-idol-fun-begins-20120713,0,3700302.story]With Steven Tyler, Jennifer Lopez out, the 'American Idol' fun begins - latimes.com[/url]
[QUOTE=FishHooks;311372]I can't say that I am sad to see either of them go, but Lord I hope they don't put somebody like Ellen on there....[/QUOTE]
No, they want people with much more talent.
[url=http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/10/american-idol-nigel-lythgoe-charlie-sheen-and-jerry-lewis-jennifer-lopez/]New 'American Idol' Judges -- Nigel Lythgoe Pushing For Charlie Sheen & Jerry Lewis[/url]
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