The Challenge Series: RW/RR (Generic Thread)

[QUOTE=jesses_girl;230081]They've worn out their welcome. I actually like the Fresh Meat challenges, it's the constant invites back that i can't stand. So i guess im more annoyed with the casting than the actual challengers.[/QUOTE] Alright so from here on out you'd like them to get rid of the FMers, leading to a smaller cast of let's say eight less people, which would have to mean that three or four eliminations also would have to be terminated, and since there's less castmembers to eliminate, less challenges will have to take place as well. And let's not forget that with less people means less confrontation and tension within the house leading to less fights and drama and fun leading to the overall downfall of the challenges. Ok, I suppose that's something to look forward to:rolleyes: The FMers aren't even bad to have on the show, how many can you actually say didn't bring something to the show? Out of the 25 FMers I, personally, would list Jesse, Johnnie, Chanda, Jeff, and possibly Sydney and Sandy as "useless". Just because they didn't have a real season doesn't mean they're much different from the RWers and Roadies. Everybody on the show now is a [B]Challenger[/B], and either a former-RWer, former-Roadie, or a former-FMer. Everybody there is a competitor, and that's all that should matter. Now if we were to judge the people who get called on by their abilities and what they bring to the show, that's a completely different story, but the FMers as a whole do not completely suck, and aren't completely boring, so that discussion would make no sense.

[QUOTE=TSPKM;230083]Most of the Fresh Meat kids are fine, I dont see the big deal with them. I mean girls like Theresa I dont care much for because she's really not that interesting and not that great of a competitor, shes kinda bland and boring but seems to make it far...thats what I dont like. [B]And I really dont Jemmye will be a great competitor...really, she seems like a girl with a big bark, but a soft bite. I think Ashlee or McKenzie would be better competitors from BNO season.[/QUOTE] [/B] You're right. We shall see. I see McKenzie being another Kimberly.

My hope is also to see less FM people cast on the challenges, partially because I've always been a purist, but mostly because I personally just do not find most of them interesting. I realize in the greater scheme of things, my opinion is in the minority, but oh well. I just don't find any of them to be all that entertaining. Some reasons are stupid, like for instance Luke's voice is incredibly annoying so I don't want him back LOL. I know you can make a case for people like Laurel, Cara Maria, Theresa, etc., but I just have no interest in them. Cara Maria was supposedly the underdog and I was under the impression that I was supposed to root for her but I didn't because she actually was an awful competitor despite what she and Abe said. Some people seem to think Laurel is a ***** but in an entertaining way, but no, Coral was a ***** in an entertaining way. I used to be able to laugh during the fights on these shows. Puck spits in David's face, Coral tells people she doesn't wrestle but beats *****es up, Veronica telling Julie to "stop molesting my ****** you ******* mormon", Beth telling Veronica she'd sell her family up the river to win, Katie's blowouts, etc. could all make me laugh both with and at these people. Laurel's "fight" with Eric was just incredibly uncomfortable and so was her treatment of CM. I will say though that Noor can come back as much as he wants. He was cool and a great competitor. Pete was cool too I think but I don't really remember. Quite frankly I say bring on the New Orleans, DC, Cancun, Brooklyn, and Hollywood people. They have been scarcely represented so far and I'd like to see those people.

[QUOTE]Alright so from here on out you'd like them to get rid of the FMers, leading to a smaller cast of let's say eight less people, which would have to mean that three or four eliminations also would have to be terminated, and since there's less castmembers to eliminate, less challenges will have to take place as well. And let's not forget that with less people means less confrontation and tension within the house leading to less fights and drama and fun leading to the overall downfall of the challenges. Ok, I suppose that's something to look forward to The FMers aren't even bad to have on the show, how many can you actually say didn't bring something to the show? Out of the 25 FMers I, personally, would list Jesse, Johnnie, Chanda, Jeff, and possibly Sydney and Sandy as "useless". Just because they didn't have a real season doesn't mean they're much different from the RWers and Roadies. Everybody on the show now is a Challenger, and either a former-RWer, former-Roadie, or a former-FMer. Everybody there is a competitor, and that's all that should matter. Now if we were to judge the people who get called on by their abilities and what they bring to the show, that's a completely different story, but the FMers as a whole do not completely suck, and aren't completely boring, so that discussion would make no sense.[/QUOTE] I didn't say anything about getting rid of them. I just don't wanna see them over and over and over again back to back. It annoys me when the casting people skip over people because they think they're boring and don't even give them a chance. That has happened. I think Ryan, Eric, Diem, Casey, and Evan are boring but the casting people think otherwise. Well, Evan's a good competitor so i see why he's invited back so many times. I don't remember much of Fresh Meat 2 and this was only their 2nd show so i can't comment on them yet. Oh and there are a bunch of people who are from The Real World and want to do a challenge but aren't being asked.

[QUOTE=V1man;230075]"Enough said" may do nothing more than demonstrate your lack of understanding of what actually happened in Buzios. Beth did nothing for several minutes except to hold off Svetlana's efforts to more Beth backward while she waited for Svetlana to expend her strength. When Svetlana was thoroughly spent, Beth easily moved forward and Svetlana moved off the pole area and literally cried on the sidelines in frustration. It was not until Beth bent forward over the pole to reach for the flag that Svetlana ran to the pole and pushed. In Beth's mind and in the mind of other watching, Svetlana had already quit and walked off. Presumably that is one of the reasons that it took the "judges" so long to decide what to do. In my view, the myth of Beth having a big weight advantage over anyone is simply that: a myth. It may depend upon one's definition of "advantage," but Beth was about 140 lbs at that time, which was not much different than Jodi or Robin, and Aneesa was probably around 125. What some of the cast members knew -- and as Jodi said at the time -- was that Beth was far better conditioned than she had been in previous challenges and as veteran kick boxer was well prepared for the finale through her pre-challenge conditioning program. The unknown for her would have been if she could have actually ridden the para-glider used at top of the mountain. At that time she had a fear of heights. Of course, this is all ground that we have been over before, but you were not a member here at that time.[/QUOTE] OK all that's fine and dandy, I still think Aneesa could've taken Beth in most of the Duel 1 elimination games. You can agree or disagree, but it's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I don't pretend to know exactly everything that happens on these challenges like some people around here, I only go by what I see on TV... and that's why I also include "in my opinion" or "IMO" at the end of everything I post basically.

[QUOTE=Adrian!!!!!!;230101]OK all that's fine and dandy, I still think Aneesa could've taken Beth in most of the Duel 1 elimination games. You can agree or disagree, but it's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.[B][SIZE="4"] I don't pretend to know exactly everything that happens on these challenges like some people around here[/SIZE][/B], I only go by what I see on TV... and that's why I also include "in my opinion" or "IMO" at the end of everything I post basically.[/QUOTE] Before posting my comment above to which you so inelegantly responded, I spoke to Beth to ensure that my memory of events in Buzios was accurate. I then tweaked a couple of details and posted the comment. [SIZE="1"](FYI: Beth and I have been business partners for 6 years and I've had a bunch of the Real World/Road Rules people under contract to our company over the years with the usual resulting friendships and networking relationships; thus, now and then, details of behind-the-scenes events do come my way. And, for what it's worth, I can name at least ten people who post here who have known relationships with cast members, with their family members, or who, themselves, are family of RR/RW/FM past/current cast. It is one thing that makes this site so unique. )[/SIZE]

I think Beth would've made it to the finals in The Duel, but I don't think she would've beaten Jodi. The race was mainly ALL uphill. Jodi seemed like a faster runner than Beth. The only way Beth could've won is if she solved the puzzles at lightening speed. I liked The Duel 1's format WAY more than The Duel 2. I liked seeing girl days and boy days rather than a boy AND girl going into the duel on the same day.

[QUOTE=jhl182;230105]I think Beth would've made it to the finals in The Duel, but I don't think she would've beaten Jodi. The race was mainly ALL uphill. Jodi seemed like a faster runner than Beth. The only way Beth could've won is if she solved the puzzles at lightening speed. [B]I liked The Duel 1's format WAY more than The Duel 2. I liked seeing girl days and boy days rather than a boy AND girl going into the duel on the same day.[/QUOTE] I agree. It felt as if The Duel 2 was kinda rushed.

[QUOTE=V1man;230102]Before posting my comment above to which you so [B]inelegantly[/B][B] responded[/B], I spoke to Beth to ensure that my memory of events in Buzios was accurate. I then tweaked a couple of details and posted the comment. [SIZE=1](FYI: Beth and I have been business partners for 6 years and I've had a bunch of the Real World/Road Rules people under contract to our company over the years with the usual resulting friendships and networking relationships; thus, now and then, details of behind-the-scenes events do come my way. And, for what it's worth, I can name at least ten people who post here who have known relationships with cast members, with their family members, or who, themselves, are family of RR/RW/FM past/current cast. It is one thing that makes this site so unique. )[/SIZE][/QUOTE] ROFL !! "Inelegantly" ? Really ?? Well, I guess it's better than condescending !! And I'm aware of everything you just posted after the first two sentences. It's not YOU that I was referring to when I said " I don't pretend like I know exactly everything that happens on these challenges like some people around here". I understand and I've known you have good connections to many RW/RR castmembers and that you probably know about what happens on these Challenges more than anybody on this site or close to it.

[QUOTE=Debut Album;230110]The Fresh Meat ARE bad for the show. I can say with confidence that NONE of them bring anything to these shows at all. Can you sit here and tell me that the challenges need. Evan and Kenny's stupid and unfunny humor? or Diem's sense of entitlement? Theresa's attention *******? Mandi's.....um.....okay let's move on Brandon's....um...what does he do again? Ryan's...gayness? I'm starting to draw blanks here, and frankly that's the problem. They aren't interesting, likable, or original. They all are just bland and cheap and had Road Rules stayed on the air none of them would even be there taking up space. Also I would like smaller challenges. Not every challenge needs to have 32+ people on it They can do just fine with 20, 18, or even 16 people. The Fresh Meat are useless, boring, and a waste of space period.[/QUOTE] Think of how bad the Island would have been had Evelyn not been there.

Fresh Meat people should have no credibility.

[QUOTE=Buck05;230112]Think of how bad the Island would have been had Evelyn not been there.[/QUOTE] Well it was already pretty terrible with her on it haha. I doubt her absence would have been any drastic change. It was the format that made it a bad challenge IMO.

I personally don't have any issues with them continuing to ask Evan, Kenny, Evelyn, Laurel, or Cara Maria back. They actually DO bring something to the show (you can say they don't all you want, but they do). Plus, they are good competitors. Those are the FM cast members I don't have issues with when they are asked back...because I see why. Now when Eric, Diem, Casey, and Mandi get asked back, it confuses me. I don't see what they bring to the show at all.

Regardless of FM or FM2, I think these cast members would have eventually been on a season of the Real World later on. Like how Kenny was supposed to be on RW Austin. Regardless I think you would have seen them on a challenge. But we're seriously beating a dead horse. They're not going to go away no matter how much you complain and ****** about it.

[QUOTE=yankeegurl93;230127][B]Regardless of FM or FM2, I think these cast members would have eventually been on a season of the Real World later on. Like how Kenny was supposed to be on RW Austin.[/B] Regardless I think you would have seen them on a challenge. But we're seriously beating a dead horse. They're not going to go away no matter how much you complain and ****** about it.[/QUOTE] This is true. I also remember something about Evelyn being considered for the Denver season. Not sure about all of them, but some definitely were legitimate contenders to be on the show eventually anyway.

One of the 2 FMers i don't mind is Laurel and i think she brings a seriousness to the competition as a female. In comparison to the women we've been getting, Sarah, Katelyn, Casey, Diem, Paula, Jenn, Shauvon, Laurel is actually a valuable competitor who no one would even consider her in a 'trim the fat' discussion. And she doesn't need friends or hookups to keep her on. And i just have a soft spot for CM because i think she's a unique personality with a lot of fight in her. This is just from watching Cutthroat because i can't remember much of FM 2 and i don't think i even finished watching that season anyway. Everyone else can take a couple years off in my opinion.

I don't really understand the "who brings what to the table debate". The show doesn't focus on only one person and I personally think it's more about the way the casts interacts with each other than how each person exists individually on the show (unless they're so out there and different like CT or Abram). What makes Evan and Kenny so different than Johnny, Wes, Brad, or any of the other loud hyper-competitive guys that makes them irrelevant because they were Fresh Meat? I guess that, because I started watching at Fresh Meat and VERY rarely watch Real World, I don't understand what the "true" alums bring to the table that make them so much more deserving. It doesn't seem like the rest of the cast feels that Evan, Kenny, and Evelyn are just fillers as each of them (aside from Ev in the Ruins) seem both pretty well respected as well as being the leaders of any alliances that they're in. I think Dunbar replaced Kenny on Cutthroat right? Just because Dunbar is a cast member he's more interesting than Kenny? Maybe now that he's done ****, but during the show not really. Katie is another one who is a real cast member, but to this day I can't understand why she gets so much love...it's an athletic competition and she doesn't perform well in the challenges and didn't win an elimination from FM - The Ruins. So yeah, I'd rather have Evelyn who might not be as entertaining during the downtime but can actually perform (which is why they're there) than Katie despite the fact that Evelyn is a FM.

[QUOTE=JL81790;230134]I don't really understand the "who brings what to the table debate". The show doesn't focus on only one person and I personally think it's more about the way the casts interacts with each other than how each person exists individually on the show (unless they're so out there and different like CT or Abram). What makes Evan and Kenny so different than Johnny, Wes, Brad, or any of the other loud hyper-competitive guys that makes them irrelevant because they were Fresh Meat? I guess that, because I started watching at Fresh Meat and VERY rarely watch Real World, I don't understand what the "true" alums bring to the table that make them so much more deserving. It doesn't seem like the rest of the cast feels that Evan, Kenny, and Evelyn are just fillers as each of them (aside from Ev in the Ruins) seem both pretty well respected as well as being the leaders of any alliances that they're in. I think Dunbar replaced Kenny on Cutthroat right? Just because Dunbar is a cast member he's more interesting than Kenny? Maybe now that he's done ****, but during the show not really. Katie is another one who is a real cast member, but to this day I can't understand why she gets so much love...it's an athletic competition and she doesn't perform well in the challenges and didn't win an elimination from FM - The Ruins. So yeah, I'd rather have Evelyn who might not be as entertaining during the downtime but can actually perform (which is why they're there) than Katie despite the fact that Evelyn is a FM.[/QUOTE] Exactly, amen to your post! The whole "what does blah blah blah bring to the challenges" thing is just ridiculous. -Evan and Evelyn are two of the best competitors on the shows and they also supply drama -Kenny's a decent competitor with a great social game, also provides drama -Diem was never a bad competitor, yeah she isn't the best but she's made it to the final elimination on both Duels and had a relationship with one of the top male competitors which in the longrun, led to one of the worst fights in history of the show -Eric was a central point in a lot of drama on the Gauntlet 3 and Cut Throat -Cara Maria came onto her second challenge, started a relationship with one of the most respected Veterans, made the final, was a decent competitor, and was a central point in drama -Laurel has potential to be the future female top competitor and she provides drama -Vinny...is fun to watch -Brandon, you can't say Brandon brought nothing to the shows so far because that would just be ridiculous as well. -Pete, Noor, and possibly Carley don't look promising? Alright, now let's look at some of the RW/RRers who bring [I]sooo[/I] much to the shows: CutThroat: Melinda, Chet, Derek, Emilee, Ayiiia, Shauvon, JD Ruins: Ibis, Syrus, Veronica (minus the Tonya fight, anybody can fight her), Chet, Brianna, Shauvon, Nick, Adam, Danny Duel 2: Robin, Brooke, Katie, Shauvon, Nick, Davis, Nehemiah, Isaac, Eric, Dunbar, Derek, Paula, Kimberly I could go on and on, but the like I said before, everybody is now a competitor, and they're there to compete. If you took somebody who didn't watch the show and made the watch an episode, they would never be able to seperate the FMers from the others, and ya know why? Because it really doesn't matter where they came from.

[QUOTE=JL81790;230134]I don't really understand the "who brings what to the table debate". The show doesn't focus on only one person and I personally think it's more about the way the casts interacts with each other than how each person exists individually on the show (unless they're so out there and different like CT or Abram). What makes Evan and Kenny so different than Johnny, Wes, Brad, or any of the other loud hyper-competitive guys that makes them irrelevant because they were Fresh Meat? I guess that, because I started watching at Fresh Meat and VERY rarely watch Real World, I don't understand what the "true" alums bring to the table that make them so much more deserving. It doesn't seem like the rest of the cast feels that Evan, Kenny, and Evelyn are just fillers as each of them (aside from Ev in the Ruins) seem both pretty well respected as well as being the leaders of any alliances that they're in. I think Dunbar replaced Kenny on Cutthroat right? Just because Dunbar is a cast member he's more interesting than Kenny? Maybe now that he's done ****, but during the show not really. Katie is another one who is a real cast member, but to this day I can't understand why she gets so much love...it's an athletic competition and she doesn't perform well in the challenges and didn't win an elimination from FM - The Ruins. So yeah, I'd rather have Evelyn who might not be as entertaining during the downtime but can actually perform (which is why they're there) than Katie despite the fact that Evelyn is a FM.[/QUOTE] I think the fact that you haven't seen any pre-FM seasons and don't watch The Real World does give you a different perspective.

[QUOTE=jesses_girl;230141]I think the fact that you haven't seen any pre-FM seasons and don't watch The Real World does give you a different perspective.[/QUOTE] I think it does and it doesn't, moreso the part that I don't watch the Real World. Since I don't, to me new people are new people regardless if they're Rw Rr or FM. I didn't know the backstory of Emily, JD, or whoever else on Cutthroat just like I didn't know Kenny's on FM or Johnny or Paula's on the Duel. I prefer it that way as I'm evaluating who I like and who I don't based on personality and ability rather than if I think they "deserve" to be there. PS. I'm sure I'm probably in the minority but I find Wes SUBSTANTIALLY more annoying than Kenny or Evan (especially post Duel). I cringed whenever he spoke on Fm2 or The Ruins.

[QUOTE=Morris1721;230138]Exactly, amen to your post! The whole "what does blah blah blah bring to the challenges" thing is just ridiculous. -Evan and Evelyn are two of the best competitors on the shows and they also supply drama -Kenny's a decent competitor with a great social game, also provides drama -Diem was never a bad competitor, yeah she isn't the best but she's made it to the final elimination on both Duels and had a relationship with one of the top male competitors which in the longrun, led to one of the worst fights in history of the show -Eric was a central point in a lot of drama on the Gauntlet 3 and Cut Throat -Cara Maria came onto her second challenge, started a relationship with one of the most respected Veterans, made the final, was a decent competitor, and was a central point in drama -Laurel has potential to be the future female top competitor and she provides drama -Vinny...is fun to watch -Brandon, you can't say Brandon brought nothing to the shows so far because that would just be ridiculous as well. -Pete, Noor, and possibly Carley don't look promising? Alright, now let's look at some of the RW/RRers who bring [I]sooo[/I] much to the shows: CutThroat: Melinda, Chet, Derek, Emilee, Ayiiia, Shauvon, JD Ruins: Ibis, Syrus, Veronica (minus the Tonya fight, anybody can fight her), Chet, Brianna, Shauvon, Nick, Adam, Danny Duel 2: Robin, Brooke, Katie, Shauvon, Nick, Davis, Nehemiah, Isaac, Eric, Dunbar, Derek, Paula, Kimberly I could go on and on, but the like I said before, everybody is now a competitor, and they're there to compete. If you took somebody who didn't watch the show and made the watch an episode, they would never be able to seperate the FMers from the others, and ya know why? Because it really doesn't matter where they came from.[/QUOTE] Brandon was only shown because of how his team treated him. He would've been another Luke had he been on a different team. So yea, he brought nothing. How was Vinny fun to watch? The only time we really saw him was when he blew up at Eric and Sarah, which i think was the same episode. Kenny, Evan, Ryan, Eric, Luke, Vinny, Brandon, or any of the other FM guys are no where near as entertaining or better competitors than Abram, Derrick, CT, Ace, David, Mike, Jeremy, Mark, Frank, Landon, Darrell, Adam, Theo V, Alton and i know im missing a bunch but whatever. The only guy the Fresh Meat guys could probably beat is Ace. But he's way more fun to watch than any of them. Even Matt on The Gauntlet was more interesting. I shouldn't even have to list any comparisons for the girls lol. I just think in general, The Real World and Road Rules casts are much more interesting to watch.

[QUOTE=JL81790;230143]I think it does and it doesn't, moreso the part that I don't watch the Real World. Since I don't, to me new people are new people regardless if they're Rw Rr or FM. I didn't know the backstory of Emily, JD, or whoever else on Cutthroat just like I didn't know Kenny's on FM or Johnny or Paula's on the Duel. I prefer it that way as I'm evaluating who I like and who I don't based on personality and ability rather than if I think they "deserve" to be there. PS. I'm sure I'm probably in the minority but I find Wes SUBSTANTIALLY more annoying than Kenny or Evan (especially post Duel). I cringed whenever he spoke on Fm2 or The Ruins.[/QUOTE] That's cool but for me since i'm a huge fan of The Real World, i think there are people who could possibly make the challenges more interesting if they were given a chance but aren't. And then i have to watch the same people (give or take 5 newbies or non regulars) over and over again. And it's all about the same ****. The Evan, Paula, Dunbar drama was draining on The Duel 2. This Kenny, Wes, Evelyn battle that's going on is ridiculously played out. And watching Ryan and Eric continue to come on and make 0 impact is laughable. And as much as i love Wes, i agree with your last statement. Well, i think he's getting more and more annoying and tiring but Kenny and Evan are way more annoying imo. Wes is just a big headed idiot. At least he appears to be on the challenges and he's letting this whole Johanna and Kenny **** get to him. I really want the old Wes to come back, the guy that kicked butt in The Duel and Fresh Meat.

[QUOTE=Morris1721;230138]Exactly, amen to your post! The whole "what does blah blah blah bring to the challenges" thing is just ridiculous. -Evan and Evelyn are two of the best competitors on the shows and they also supply drama -Kenny's a decent competitor with a great social game, also provides drama -Diem was never a bad competitor, yeah she isn't the best but she's made it to the final elimination on both Duels and had a relationship with one of the top male competitors which in the longrun, led to one of the worst fights in history of the show -Eric was a central point in a lot of drama on the Gauntlet 3 and Cut Throat -Cara Maria came onto her second challenge, started a relationship with one of the most respected Veterans, made the final, was a decent competitor, and was a central point in drama -Laurel has potential to be the future female top competitor and she provides drama -Vinny...is fun to watch -Brandon, you can't say Brandon brought nothing to the shows so far because that would just be ridiculous as well. -Pete, Noor, and possibly Carley don't look promising? Alright, now let's look at some of the RW/RRers who bring [I]sooo[/I] much to the shows: CutThroat: Melinda, Chet, Derek, Emilee, Ayiiia, Shauvon, JD Ruins: Ibis, Syrus, Veronica (minus the Tonya fight, anybody can fight her), Chet, Brianna, Shauvon, Nick, Adam, Danny Duel 2: Robin, Brooke, Katie, Shauvon, Nick, Davis, Nehemiah, Isaac, Eric, Dunbar, Derek, Paula, Kimberly I could go on and on, but the like I said before, everybody is now a competitor, and they're there to compete. If you took somebody who didn't watch the show and made the watch an episode, they would never be able to seperate the FMers from the others, and ya know why? Because it really doesn't matter where they came from.[/QUOTE]Well said. I agree 100%

If Fresh Meat produced actually tolerable people then I think everyone would have gotten over them being on the shows by now. Personally, I don't mind any of the FM2 kids. FM1 had a terrible cast. Everyone was either annoying or boring. The only ones I don't mind are Diem, Ev, and at times Eric. The season 2 cast is fine with me.