[quote=bacchus;131420]spending money is one thing. The red sox spend money. Spending tens of millions more than the next closest team is another matter altogether. That being said, i can see how it would be hard for you to understand, [b] being you are a rangers fan.
[/b]
it is not like you have to play the yankees 18 times a year. It is not like every free agent you look at is bid on by the yankees out of spite to raise the asking price even when they are not interested. And as the angels will soon find out, having an extra $91 million in all stars on a squad makes winning close to impossible.
(to make that easier to understand, just remove these players from the yankees to even the alcs payrolls: Alex rodriguez, derek jeter, mark teixeira, cc sabathia. Yes, if those players were not on the yankees roster, they'd still be outspending the angels who have the 6th highest payroll in the league!)
i'm not bitter. We've won 2 world series since 2000 and the yankees have none (although they have pretty much bought the 2009 edition) and 6 of the last 7 seasons have been 95 win plus. We've had some good years.
The problem is that for the red sox to compete, ticket prices had to go up 6 times or more (depending on the seats) in the last 10 years. So now a middle class fan goes to see maybe two games (maybe none) a year instead of ten or twelve. Everything about this payroll arms race is bad for the average fan. It goes beyond just competition.
[b]fan index [/b](what it costs to take a family of 4 to a baseball game.)
boston $320.71
[i]next highest...[/i]
new york mets $259.84
new york yankees $251.19
[i]
near the bottom...[/i]
texas rangers $148.04
hey, i'm not really that worried. The red sox are in the rockefeller clan of baseball and will have a top 5 payroll every year. We have a massive media market and charge the highest average ticket prices in the league (by a mile.) we have all sorts of money, just not ridiculous money. The more the yankees spend, the more we will be forced to raise ticket prices to try and field a team that is within 60% payroll wise of what the financial bullies on the block are spending.
Actually, i feel even worse for the other teams (outside the top ten) as they will never get a top tier free agent, ever.
So hey, if you think it is good for baseball that one team can buy championships, fine. However, many of us think that when you can pay the salary of two mlb franchises with the money over the next closest spender, something is wrong and the disparity too great...[/quote]
oh snap!!!!
See thats the problem, its mainly only red sox fans who complain about the yankess spending. Your right we dont have to play the yankees 18 times a year, but if we did i wouldnt b**** about them having a higher payroll. Im going to start complaining about the red sox because they spend a whole lot more money than we do, so they are evil just like the yankees. Oh and by the way the poor rangers won the season series against the rich red sox. You guys are making me hope the yankees win the world series just so i can hear you complain some more. :)
[QUOTE=Lionsfan780;131491]See thats the problem, its mainly only red sox fans who complain about the yankess spending. Your right we dont have to play the yankees 18 times a year, but if we did i wouldnt b**** about them having a higher payroll. Im going to start complaining about the red sox because they spend a whole lot more money than we do, so they are evil just like the yankees. Oh and by the way the poor rangers won the season series against the rich red sox. You guys are making me hope the yankees win the world series just so i can hear you complain some more. :)[/QUOTE]
Why would you b itch? Clearly you enjoy baseball for baseball. Not winning, lol.
That is an admiral trait.
The Rangers are O-fer life on AL pennants (let alone World Series rings.) So it is hard for me to understand pulling for such a losing philosophy, yet I do embrace the inner loser in you Lionsfan. I do!
That out of the way, in the current climate (and if things stay the same) the Rangers will not win a Pennant in my life time. The Red Sox will probably win 5 or 10.
To each their own I suspect, right?
[QUOTE]Im going to start complaining about the red sox because they spend a whole lot more money than we do, so they are evil just like the yankees.[/QUOTE]With the Yankee payroll, you could pay the Red Sox AND Ranger player salaries AND have money left over. You just don't get it, do you...
(to make that easier to understand, just remove these players from the yankees to even the alcs payrolls: Alex rodriguez, derek jeter, mark teixeira, cc sabathia. Yes, if those players were not on the yankees roster, they'd still be outspending the angels who have the 6th highest payroll in the league!)
Thats a great idea from now on when teams like the yankees and red sox play against teams like the rangers and rays, all their highly paid players have to sit out. That would even the playing field, giving every team in baseball a fair shot. Then the world series every year would be teams like the roayls and the pirates playing.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131494]Why would you b itch? Clearly you enjoy baseball for baseball. Not winning, lol.
That is an admiral trait.
The Rangers are O-fer life on AL pennants (let alone World Series rings.) So it is hard for me to understand pulling for such a losing philosophy, yet I do embrace the inner loser in you Lionsfan. I do!
That out of the way, in the current climate (and if things stay the same) the Rangers will not win a Pennant in my life time. The Red Sox will probably win 5 or 10.
To each their own I suspect, right?[/QUOTE]
No thats where your wrong, i wish the rangers would win some more **** games but i dont blame their loosing solely on their payroll. Their ball park is a pitchers nighmare and they have played ****** defense for a few years. Yeah sure it would be easy for me to stop cheering for the rangers and pull for a team like the red sox or yankees, but im loyal to the teams I like, if their bad or not.
[QUOTE=Lionsfan780;131504]
Thats a great idea from now on when teams like the yankees and red sox play against teams like the rangers and rays, all their highly paid players have to sit out. That would even the playing field, giving every team in baseball a fair shot. Then the world series every year would be teams like the roayls and the pirates playing.[/QUOTE]
I think you are not reading what I am typing. Must be something like that.
I am fine with teams spending millions upon millions to pay for players.
The issue is that ONE TEAM (ONLY ONE) is spending almost 70% more than the next closest team.
All the other contenders are in a pack between $100-138 million. I could go on all day, but you seem quite oblivious to what I am trying to say.
If the Yankees were removed from the equation, there is parity in spending in the top half of the league. But, when you allow a team to almost double their competition in spending, there is a gross disparity.
Hey man, cheer for the Rangers all you want. Bring up some good players from AAA. I am sure they will be on the Yankees and Sox once they break through.
[QUOTE]No thats where your wrong, i wish the rangers would win some more **** games but i dont blame their loosing solely on their payroll.[/QUOTE]You should. They are a have not. They will never be good.
Maybe one season a decade at best. Then they will sell off all their players to teams that can afford them...
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131508]I think you are not reading what I am typing. Must be something like that.
I am fine with teams spending millions upon millions to pay for players.
The issue is that ONE TEAM (ONLY ONE) is spending almost 70% more than the next closest team.
All the other contenders are in a pack between $100-138 million. I could go on all day, but you seem quite oblivious to what I am trying to say.
If the Yankees were removed from the equation, there is parity in spending in the top half of the league. But, when you allow a team to almost double their competition in spending, there is a gross disparity.
Hey man, cheer for the Rangers all you want. Bring up some good players from AAA. I am sure they will be on the Yankees and Sox once they break through.[/QUOTE]
Your last point is dead on, so i take pride in knowing that former rangers players help "big market" teams do well.
Its obvious we have different opinions on the whole money issue and thats fine. I wish your red sox a happy offseason, i hope they get all the free agents that they go after. I also wish them luck during the season next year except when they play the rangers. Good day to you!
[QUOTE=Lionsfan780;131517]Your last point is dead on, so i take pride in knowing that former rangers players help "big market" teams do well.[/QUOTE]
First of all, that is a cop out. Dallas is not a big market? Haha...
The reality is, fans just don't support the team. It has nothing to do with population or media market size. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population"]Boston is the 22nd largest city in the US and Dallas is 9th.[/URL]
Secondly, all your previous arguments are null and void if you are saying that the Rangers are in effect a AAA team for other teams. That just solidifies my argument that there needs to be salary limitations in order for MLB to be robust. If small or disinterested market teams are just farm teams, there is an issue. A big issue, as that limits the sport greatly.
Just to make sure everyone is following along....there are 30 teams in baseball. One of them is in the 22nd largest city in the US. It has the 4th highest payroll in baseball - and wins (although not winning the World Series is always a failure.)
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131526]Just to make sure everyone is following along....there are 30 teams in baseball. One of them is in the 22nd largest city in the US. It has the 4th highest payroll in baseball - and wins (although not winning the World Series is always a failure.)[/QUOTE]
All everyone needs to know is that there are 30 teams in mlb and one of them is purely evil and big cheaters. So the yankees should just be banished from baseball. then all their high priced players can be split up between all the other teams. The red sox can have mark texierra, since they tried to get him last year. As for the rangers we will either take c.c. sabathia or a.j burnett. I think that is the fairest way to solve the problem in baseball.
[QUOTE=Lionsfan780;131539]All everyone needs to know is that there are 30 teams in mlb and one of them is purely evil and big cheaters. So the yankees should just be banished from baseball. then all their high priced players can be split up between all the other teams. The red sox can have mark texierra, since they tried to get him last year. As for the rangers we will either take c.c. sabathia or a.j burnett. I think that is the fairest way to solve the problem in baseball.[/QUOTE]
That or we could place a REAL luxury tax on teams spending...er...let's say 50 million more than the next highest salaried team (So the Yankees would only have to pay on the 30-40 million above that number.)
Lionsfan...I just don't get it. You must be a Yankees fan. There is no other explanation.
And yes, the Red Sox did try to get Teixeira. But, they had a financial limit and they were in the high group of bidding teams. In the end, you can't beat the Yankees in matters of the wallet. Teixeira is partially why there is such a disparity. He was worth "X" and the Yankees gave him a 25% premium on his value.
Unless the Red Sox were willing to raise ticket prices so that obstructed view bleacher seats would cost $200 a game, we were out of that race and out of any race in which the Yankees pay more than a franchise for a player (i.e. A-Rod $33 Million vs. Pirates $25 million total salary.)
Anyway, I might as well talk to a wall so I am not sure why I am even typing this...if you are a baseball fan you would understand. If you are a Yankee fan (which clearly you are) then you want to buy championships by spending even more after years of failure to your rival and the worst choke in all of sports.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131550]That or we could place a REAL luxury tax on teams spending...er...let's say 50 million more than the next highest salaried team (So the Yankees would only have to pay on the 30-40 million above that number.)
Lionsfan...I just don't get it. You must be a Yankees fan. There is no other explanation.
And yes, the Red Sox did try to get Teixeira. But, they had a financial limit and they were in the high group of bidding teams. In the end, you can't beat the Yankees in matters of the wallet. Teixeira is partially why there is such a disparity. He was worth "X" and the Yankees gave him a 25% premium on his value.
Unless the Red Sox were willing to raise ticket prices so bleacher seats would cost $200 a game, we were out of that race and out of any race in which the Yankees pay more than a franchise for a player (i.e. A-Rod $33 Million vs. Pirates $25 millon total salary.)
Anyway, I might as well talk to a wall so I am not sure why I am even typing this...[/QUOTE]
nah the mets the yankees for Beltran and the yankees lost out on dicek. Besides the yankees already pay luxury tax and it just gets pocketed by teams like the pirates
[QUOTE=jbo29j;131553] Besides the yankees already pay luxury tax and it just gets pocketed by teams like the pirates[/QUOTE]
100% untrue.
Not ONE DOLLAR of luxury tax goes toward revenue sharing....
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131555]100% untrue.
Not ONE DOLLAR of luxury tax goes toward revenue sharing....[/QUOTE]
Really? im pretty they do pay a tax what does it go to then and something should be done but i just hate salary capped leagues.
[QUOTE=jbo29j;131558]Really? im pretty they do pay a tax what does it go to then and something should be done but i just hate salary capped leagues.[/QUOTE]
There is revenue sharing, but that is separate from the luxury tax.
You hate salary capped leagues? So you hate all sports but baseball? :D
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131550]Anyway, I might as well talk to a wall so I am not sure why I am even typing this..[B].if you are a baseball fan you would understand[/B]. If you are a Yankee fan (which clearly you are) then you want to buy championships by spending even more after years of failure to your rival and the worst choke in all of sports.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. I think we already talked a little about this before ([url]http://vevmo.com/f77/baseball-2009-season-2915/index33.html#post109508[/url]) but I would also like to see a salary cap or at least a better way to spread the wealth throughout the sport.
[QUOTE=GoldenWarrior;131569]Thing is though even with the fact the Yankees are the "Evil Empire" they still haven't won the World Series in quite a while.[/QUOTE]
But...they have made sure that ticket prices are 300% higher than they were they last time they won in cities that compete.
That is my main argument. This free agent arms race is costing the average fan. It is making baseball a sport of the rich in "have" cities and a sport of "who cares we can't win" in the others...
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131570]But...they have made sure that ticket prices are 300% higher than they were they last time they won in cities that compete.
That is my main argument. This free agent arms race is costing the average fan. It is making baseball a sport of the rich in "have" cities and a sport of "who cares we can't win" in the others...[/QUOTE]
Very true they are kinda out of control and worse yet there really hasn't been anything to stop them from doing so.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131550]That or we could place a REAL luxury tax on teams spending...er...let's say 50 million more than the next highest salaried team (So the Yankees would only have to pay on the 30-40 million above that number.)
Lionsfan...I just don't get it. You must be a Yankees fan. There is no other explanation.
And yes, the Red Sox did try to get Teixeira. But, they had a financial limit and they were in the high group of bidding teams. In the end, you can't beat the Yankees in matters of the wallet. Teixeira is partially why there is such a disparity. He was worth "X" and the Yankees gave him a 25% premium on his value.
Unless the Red Sox were willing to raise ticket prices so that obstructed view bleacher seats would cost $200 a game, we were out of that race and out of any race in which the Yankees pay more than a franchise for a player (i.e. A-Rod $33 Million vs. Pirates $25 million total salary.)
Anyway, I might as well talk to a wall so I am not sure why I am even typing this...if you are a baseball fan you would understand. If you are a Yankee fan (which clearly you are) then you want to buy championships by spending even more after years of failure to your rival and the worst choke in all of sports.[/QUOTE]
No, im am in no way shape or form a yankees fan. Believe it or not i like the red sox a **** of a lot more than i do the yankees. I just dont like people who complain about the yankees spending a ton of money. Maybe i would feel diffrently if i was a big fan of the red sox or if i lived in boston. I can tell you are a diehard sox fan and that you hate the yankees and thats cool. But the yankees can and have always been able to outspend teams and thats not going to change anytime soon.
[QUOTE] But the yankees can and have always been able to outspend teams and thats not going to change anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
Unless there is a salary limiter like all other pro sports.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131583]Unless there is a salary limiter like all other pro sports.[/QUOTE]
yeah thats true but i dont think its going to happen in baseball anytime soon.
I got a question for you. are you a fan of the boston celtics?
[QUOTE=Lionsfan780;131586]
I got a question for you. are you a fan of the boston celtics?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
Glad we won again. My childhood favorite finally came back and won. That will get me through a decade or two.
If there was not a salary cap, it would have come much sooner.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131591]Yes.
Glad we won again. My childhood favorite finally came back and won. That will get me through a decade or two.
If there was not a salary cap, it would have come much sooner.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but they got kevin garnett and ray allen for virtually no one. I know Al Jefferson is a solid player but i dont think anyone would say he is near as good as garnett. So alot of people accused the celtics of "buying" a championship. I wonder what your opinion of that is? ( for the record i dont consider what they did buying a title, but many people did)
Its going to be a pleasure arguing with you during basketball season. Although my favorite team is the rockets, i am also a fan of the cavs and i think they will be in a battle with the celtics for the eastern confrence.
The Celtics can't buy a championship, nor can any other team. There is a salary cap.
Are you following along?
People want to play for a team that wants to win and has great fans. Simple as that.
This is a losing proposition (arguing with you) as you are clueless. The Celtics traded for Garnett and Allen. This has nothing to do with free agency. This has nothing to do with excessive spending. If the Celtics spent $80 million more than the Lakers, I suspect there would be an issue...but that is not the case. The NBA is "fair" in comparison to baseball.
[QUOTE=Bacchus;131598]The Celtics can't buy a championship, nor can any other team. There is a salary cap.
Are you following along?
People want to play for a team that wants to win and has great fans. Simple as that.
This is a losing proposition (arguing with you) as you are clueless. The Celtics traded for Garnett and Allen. This has nothing to do with free agency. This has nothing to do with excessive spending. If the Celtics spent $80 million more than the Lakers, I suspect there would be an issue...but that is not the case. The NBA is "fair" in comparison to baseball.[/QUOTE]
I know the celtics traded for allen and garnett, i wrote that in my previous post. I also didnt say that i was accusing them of buying a title but many people did as absurd as it sounds. I never once said the celtics got either allen or garnett through free agency. And if they did i wouldnt have cared one bit. I dont think im "clueless", but your entitled to your opinion.
[URL="http://vevmo.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=4455"][IMG]http://vevmo.com/imagehosting/15504adfa41abbe4e.png[/IMG][/URL]
Go Yankees, indeed.
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