This should have been the first time that MTV went and told a visitor to stay and be apart of the regular cast, and preferably kicked someone out in response.
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;285689]This should have been the first time that MTV went and told a visitor to stay and be apart of the regular cast, and preferably kicked someone out in response.[/QUOTE]
Agreed
[QUOTE=Gucci Mane;285688]I feel like I have been watching one storyline stretched out over an entire season. Was there really nothing else to explore?[/QUOTE]
I mean, no one else is interesting. Or at least it seems like that due to editing.
This was a nice Episode. I can tolerate Ashley, Zach and Frank now.
Look at how happy, carefree and positive everyone else BUT Zach and Ashley are. And people keep defending homophobia? LOL. I guess that's why homophobes are always so mad and hateful. They're miserable souls.
Zach is finally showing a modicum of support, and that's basically the whole premise of this show, and finally, they are showing some respect. But we all know from after-show interviews, that this is just a mirage.
Lol, i like how both Zach and Frank are talking about how the other one is coming around and changed for the better. It's like they didn't or couldn't see the issues within themselves.
[QUOTE=jesses_girl;285703]Lol, i like how both Zach and Frank are talking about how the other one is coming around and changed for the better. It's like they didn't or couldn't see the issues within themselves.[/QUOTE]
Praise you!
That's exactly how I was feeling after that last segment.
[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;285694]This was a nice Episode. I can tolerate Ashley, Zach and Frank now.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I was close to giving up on this season. Upcoming episodes look ...ugh... interesting.
This episode I think more than ever highlighted just how stupid and how wrong homophobia is. They really set up the episode to make Zach and Ashley look bad, but really, that is of their own doing. People should look at this episode and ask themselves, which route do they really want to follow?
Frank accepting himself truly and finding security and self-belief in who he is, turned him into a totally different person. Not the emotionally unstable guy who flaunted his sexuality but a man who is under control and confident. That should show people how IMPORTANT it is to ACCEPT gay people and ACCEPT homosexuality as OK, and the damages it does to LGB individuals when you don't accept it.
[QUOTE=Gucci Mane;285688]I feel like I have been watching one storyline stretched out over an entire season. Was there really nothing else to explore?[/QUOTE]
I haven't seen this episode yet but I maintain that the entire season is nothing more than a giant infomercial for this "takes a village" movie BMP is making about the shooting of a gay student.
This was probably my favorite episode of the season so far? I really enjoyed the title too!
But did Frank figure out he was gay before this? Like did I miss something or was this the first time he said he was full on gay and not bi? The way it appeared in this episode implied that he had already said he was gay... that's at least how I took it.
And I'm glad my theory on Zach and Ashley proved to be true - if it wasn't forced upon them and if everyone wasn't being like "ACCEPT THE LGBT COMMUNITY! THEY'RE AWESOME!" from the get go, they probably would have opened up to it a bit quicker. Sure, there was the pride festival thing with them being uncomfortable, but I mean, I spent Halloween in WeHo this year and I felt uncomfortable at times too. >__>
But the fact that Ashley gave a nickname to Michael and was like hugging him and Zach was treating him like just another guy, I think that says something about them. They were able to see that not all gay guys are as in your face as Frank is - and that most of them are actually pretty mellow and relaxed and kind of just like "hey, what's up?" and don't even really act like a stereotypical gay person does. It was good exposure for them and I'm glad that they're growing from it.
I know the after shows showed a different side of this, but I feel like MTV/BMP probably asked them to pretend as if what's shown on the episode is how everything still is. That was it's not like Zach could say "actually, if you keep watching, you'll see that I come around to accepting it." Could be wrong - just a thought.
Since I've never seen MTV go out of its way to not endorse a charity, I am guessing they see Nate's charity as iffy too. Wish they had cast someone like Michael instead of a train wreck like Frank. It got really annoying when it seemed like most every time Michael was trying to speak Frank had to swoop in to kiss him.
Nate has quickly become my favorite cast member. That dude is just awesome. He seems so chill and carefree. He seems like a hoot to hang out with. It was nice to see him open up and be just a fun guy.
I get that Zach and the blonde girl are not the most comfortable around gay people. I get it. What I didnt understand was during that selling thing I think. Nate was out there just being friendly and selling stuff and all that. NAte was out there just being himself and seemed to be spreading the word about what they were doing. Zach and the blonde were sitting behind the table and speaking in a monotone voice not selling a damn thing. Its like at least have respect for your job. MTV edit on them is pretty bad, but they said those things so.....
[QUOTE=Gdsimmons;285762]I get that Zach and the blonde girl are not the most comfortable around gay people. I get it. What I didnt understand was during that selling thing I think. Nate was out there just being friendly and selling stuff and all that. NAte was out there just being himself and seemed to be spreading the word about what they were doing. Zach and the blonde were sitting behind the table and speaking in a monotone voice not selling a damn thing. Its like at least have respect for your job. MTV edit on them is pretty bad, but they said those things so.....[/QUOTE]
It's not really the MTV edit more than they allowing themselves to look bad with their attitudes. That's what I personally was saying last week, that at least respect your job, respect the other castmates, and respect homosexuality, whether you accept these things or like these things, it doesn't mean you can't be cordial. At least they both started coming around by the end of the episode.
[QUOTE=SPK713;285724]I would be just as uncomfortable as Zach in that situation....[/QUOTE]
Well, the way I see it, if you're not uncomfortable going to Mardi Gras or Spring Break, for example, then there shouldn't be any reason to be uncomfortable going to gay pride, unless you're somewhat homophobic.
I agree that Frank was a little too abrasive overall, which is all down to his own insecurities and the fact he hadn't fully accepted the fact he's gay, and also his family not taking it that well. He was like a lost puppy looking for a home, and lashing out at those who gave him the exit sign. With that said, homophobia is still inexcusable and I still commend Frank and Sam for calling Zach and Ashley out on their homophobia. Because that's the only way to create change.
[QUOTE=101flyboy;285775]Well, the way I see it, if you're not uncomfortable going to Mardi Gras or Spring Break, for example, then there shouldn't be any reason to be uncomfortable going to gay pride, unless you're somewhat homophobic.[/QUOTE]
I've never been exposed to over-the-top, dress up in women's clothing, type of gay people. It would definitely be extremely awkward seeing everybody dressed up like that walking around.
I'm far from homophobic. I have gay friends, and I'm always the one saying that gays deserve to have full rights. I don't not support the gay lifestyle, I would just find it uncomfortable to have that thrown in my face and people forcing me to accept it when I already do.
[QUOTE=SPK713;285784]I've never been exposed to over-the-top, dress up in women's clothing, type of gay people. It would definitely be extremely awkward seeing everybody dressed up like that walking around.
I'm far from homophobic. I have gay friends, and I'm always the one saying that gays deserve to have full rights. I don't not support the gay lifestyle, I would just find it uncomfortable to have that thrown in my face and people forcing me to accept it when I already do.[/QUOTE]
Gay is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle. Also, most people are pride events don't dress in that manner. It's what people see because it's what grabs the most attention and plays on their insecurities most.
The way I see it, I can understand being uncomfortable with flamboyance, regardless of the sexuality aspect, heck, I can definitely say there are times when I'm uncomfortable when it comes to some of the OTT goings on that happen at gay clubs and such. The difference is, is it the flamboyance aspect that makes you uncomfortable or the fact it's gay-oriented flamboyance that makes you uncomfortable. That's something you'll need to ask yourself and reflect on. A lot of gay people, straight supporters, they think they're totally comfortable and cool with homosexuality, but still do have remanence of homophobia within themselves, due to the homophobic society we all have grown up in. You really don't know how cool you are with it until you're in the environment. Like I said, if Mardi Gras doesn't make you uncomfortable, neither should gay pride.
But with all of that said, I want to thank you for your support of our fight for equality.
[QUOTE=101flyboy;285793]Gay is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle. Also, most people are pride events don't dress in that manner. It's what people see because it's what grabs the most attention and plays on their insecurities most.
The way I see it, I can understand being uncomfortable with flamboyance, regardless of the sexuality aspect, heck, I can definitely say there are times when I'm uncomfortable when it comes to some of the OTT goings on that happen at gay clubs and such. The difference is, is it the flamboyance aspect that makes you uncomfortable or the fact it's gay-oriented flamboyance that makes you uncomfortable. That's something you'll need to ask yourself and reflect on. A lot of gay people, straight supporters, they think they're totally comfortable and cool with homosexuality, but still do have remanence of homophobia within themselves, due to the homophobic society we all have grown up in. You really don't know how cool you are with it until you're in the environment. Like I said, if Mardi Gras doesn't make you uncomfortable, neither should gay pride.
But with all of that said, I want to thank you for your support of our fight for equality.[/QUOTE]
I think it's more of the fact that men dressing like women, not joking around, being dead serious is so awkward. If I was talking to a gay guy, no big deal, but if another dude came up and made out right in the middle of the conversation... I would look around like, "anybody else uncomfortable?" Same thing with a guy and a girl just randomly making out in the middle of a conversation.
Being surrounded by flamboyant gay people would make me uncomfortable because I've never been around that before. But there's no difference between a gay or straight, I couldn't care less what the sexuality is as long as it's not thrown in my face and you actually dress normal instead of tutus and thongs
[QUOTE=SPK713;285803]I think it's more of the fact that men dressing like women, not joking around, being dead serious is so awkward. If I was talking to a gay guy, no big deal, but if another dude came up and made out right in the middle of the conversation... I would look around like, "anybody else uncomfortable?" Same thing with a guy and a girl just randomly making out in the middle of a conversation.
Being surrounded by flamboyant gay people would make me uncomfortable because I've never been around that before. But there's no difference between a gay or straight, I couldn't care less what the sexuality is as long as it's not thrown in my face and you actually dress normal instead of tutus and thongs[/QUOTE]
Well, the making out in the middle of a conversation thing, that's just rude and yeah, it's like, how do you react to that, what do you say? I understand that. I understand that being around gay-oriented flamboyance would make you more uncomfortable because it's something you've never experienced. I think Zach and Ashley are a perfect example of people who are from small-towns (I don't know where you're from, just using an example) who haven't really experienced the world around them and haven't experienced much interaction with the gay community, so it's different to them and a little weird. It's understandable, everything new takes some getting adjusted to, it doesn't make one homophobic to feel this way, as I said, plenty of gay people have had similar feelings. What's important, though, is to work past the discomfort and be open-minded enough to make those adjustments. You seem like an open-minded person and that's good, the reason why Zach and Ashley have received the backlash they have is because until the end of this episode, they haven't been open-minded. Most gay people can accept some discomfort [I]if[/I] that person has the respect to be respectful and does their part to grow beyond that.
Flamboyance definitely can be irritating but acceptance and respect is something that is key, whether you like something/someone or not, we all should treat one another will basic human decency.
[QUOTE=InfamousJoks;285804]Am I the only one who thinks Frank and his new boo-thang look really cute together?
Seeing them together makes me smile.[/QUOTE]
Agree :)
Zach considering himself a "$5,000.00 steak" at pride probably has more to do with his greatly inflated sense of his own "hotness" than anything else. In the end, it probably hurt him more that people weren't throwing themselves at him than that they were gay IMO.
BTW, Frank was just rude to his mother. Supportive or unsupportive (which I think she was very supportive considering how obnoxious he was being), a mother deserves some basic civility IMO.
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