Real World Cancun: Episode 5 - Discussion

[quote=Maddskills88;101469]I can't believe he sat on the reunion show yesterday and didn't even feel a little embarrassed for the way he reacted.[/quote] He DID. He sat there after the clip of him telling Ayiiia to get a knife, and he said "I'm blushing" because he was so embarrassed at what he said. But Joey has no regrets, and that is, in a lot of ways, a good and true way to live your life, but does come with a little baggage though.

[quote=sundream;101482]And who makes these lines? I think ANYTIME someone is not civil, then they have crossed the line...and that just about includes the entire casts of the last 20 seasons...civility should just not be reserved for mental disorders.[/quote] There totally IS a line. Saying the "n word" is crossing the line. Putting up posters of knives and saying "want a knife?" to someone who's had a history of cutting is also crossing the line.

[quote=Bacchus;101494]I didn't get that from the "I'm blushing" statement...[/quote] Me either. He did not feel bad.

[quote=Bacchus;101494]I didn't get that from the "I'm blushing" statement...[/quote] Then what would Joey be claiming to be blushing about right AFTER the clip was shown? There was nothing else to be blushing about other than maybe the clothes and cap he was wearing. :)

[quote=snarkaholic;101490]There totally IS a line. Saying the "n word" is crossing the line. Putting up posters of knives and saying "want a knife?" to someone who's had a history of cutting is also crossing the line.[/quote] So are these the ONLY lines? Seems AWFULLY selective to me. Ayiiia instigated most of the arguments as Emilee (who was there) has said, and when someone takes jabs like Ayiiia has taken jabs (and she has admitted this as well that she is a *****...her words not mine), and then you fight fire with fire. Joey just brought a bigger flame thrower to the fight. That is what happens. It's not like Joey was trying to kill a little defenseless baby who could defend itself.

Joey started everything with her. She said nothing to him. He wanted attention so he jumped in.

[quote=Bacchus;101505]I'm not going to get into the death spiral thought experiment you all seem currently engaged in[/quote] Death Spiral? So does that make me Goose? Or Maverick? :)

[quote=Bacchus;101512]Goose. In Vevmo terms, we are at the scene in the bar where you are playing piano. Unless there is a rewrite, you know what comes next...[/quote] That made my day...thanks! Reminded me of the scene in "Meet the Parents"! :) Off to dinner now...

[quote=rwny4ever;101433]Sundream was trying to make the point that Ayiia said hurtful things too. However, what she said to Emilee is not nearly as bad as some of the things Joey said to her in my opinion. There is a line.[/quote] I have not commented on this episode because I like both Ayiiia and Joey (and CJ for that matter). But why is everything about who went past the line first and the hardest, who had the worst comment, who is the most vindictive, etc. Hateful people are still hateful people. Angry people are still angry people. Are we really going to play the whole, "Let's rank cast members anger and issues on a scale and then debate each other about it"? Someone who tells someone to go cut themselves some more obviously has rage and issues. Someone who makes fun of someone for being adopted or having an abortion obviously has rage and issues. Why is someone better than someone else because of the levels of such attributes? I don't think it is right or fair to compare people's mistakes against each other. Joey and CJ and Ayiiia were all wrong here. What Joey said was heinous and hurtful, and whether or not he is sorry is not the issue. That is between him and his higher power if he believes in such. The same goes for Ayiiia, Emilee, CJ, Bronne..whoever. It's all expected. While it is wrong and horrible, it makes the Real World successful. It is why you watched last nights episode and feel the need to comment here. I, for one, am most fond of Ayiiia out of all of the girls. I just won't get into the whole who-was-the-most-wrong-and-why argument because I feel every party involved is wrong. Joey didn't believe Ayiiia, so rather than be fake and cater he stated his mind. However cruel, wrong, or hurtful his realness is - atleast he is being real. Forgiveness is the only resolution. May Joey, and Ayiiia both seek the help they need to make themselves okay and healthy (and happy) individuals. I can say that I find both super real, and that is why I like them as cast members and love this season. I just won't play the "he crossed the line" game with anyone. Self reflecting, I have crossed the line so many times in my life that I thank god I am not on national television. I'll probably cross a lot more. It's human nature to make mistakes, and cross lines. A person's character is what makes forgiveness and compassion viable.

I'm pretty much indifferent to the cast as a whole, but I do like the situations in which they are placed in. The constant back and forth on who was right or wrong is getting tiresome, though. Opinions have been stated, and it's now time to move on. No one is going to be swayed in their stance on who to support. On a different note, can we just talk about that bowling date for a little bit? If anyone ever took me to bowl, that'd be the end of the relationship. I can't stand it.

[quote=producer88;101043]Wow Bronne really "I don't like Ayiiia," "I don't agree with what Joey did, but I'm not going to stop him." Some people really need to grow up and be a MEN!!![/quote]I thought the same thing. I definitely heard that comment and called him a sissy. Honestly, show a little backbone if you think something is wrong. It reminds me of the stories you hear where people witness a crime and just watch, expecting someone else to step in for them. It's a shame. Honestly, this episode made me feel ill. I rarely am so affected by stuff on TV. The only other time I can remember being so upset over reality TV was when the Ambers were getting attacked on the Bad Girls Club. I just can't comprehend how adults can act like immature girls in Jr High and still hold their head up high. The way that Joey was acting was so childish. It reminds me of when people troll on the internet and claim victory, only this was much more personal and destructive. They took these petty, drunken jokes she would make way too seriously and retaliated way too harshly. They caused their own bad times by dwelling on how much they hated her. Someone only has the power to ruin your experience with petty comments if you give it to them, and they definitely let her get to them more than they should've To be honest, he's really lucky that he was messing with Ayiiia and not someone like me. I wouldn't be even close to as passive as she was. He would be getting ****-blocked for the rest of his stay. Every girl he hit on would be told that he was taking herpes medication. I can't say that I'd be strong enough to not sink to his level, but at least he'd get a taste of his own medicine. What's disturbing to me is all the support he's getting from young girls who are basically saying, "You're hot! I agree with you!" It makes me ashamed of what has become of the youth of our society. The fact that these girls are blatantly disregarding how cruel he was on the off chance that he'll "comment them back" is pathetic and sad. As far as the comments on cutting, I think you all need to take a step back and realize that none of you are experts on the matter. Even if you cut, or know someone who cuts, or read a little about it, you still have no idea what another cutter is going through. Everyone does it for different reasons and takes it to different extremes. Quit calling it attention ******* and recognise it for what it really is, a cry for help.

I think CJ was being just as reprehensible as Joey was. The only reason the focus is on Joey is because he's way more outspoken than CJ is. He was also saying Ayiiia was cutting for attention, he was completely egging Joey on when he was putting up the signs and making all of the rude remarks, and on the after show, I could also tell that he felt almost no remorse for what he put her through.

Why was CJ even mad at Ayiiia? Wasn't it Emilee who went into his room anyways? I mean, Ayiiia called his **** a piglet, is that... offensive to him? Personally I think he was ****** because he has no game whatsoever (from what we've seen) and she kept him from getting laid. Sorry bud, but if you thought being naked and lying next to her who is still fully clothed was gonna get you laid, then maybe re-evaluate some stuff. Unless of course he had already had *** with the girl, but I doubt that. Also, I have felt from the beginning that CJ is trying to play nice for the cameras, but he comes off as an incredibly phony ****** in my opinion.

[quote=mph922;101532]Why was CJ even mad at Ayiiia? Wasn't it Emilee who went into his room anyways? I mean, Ayiiia called his **** a piglet, is that... offensive to him? Personally I think he was ****** because he has no game whatsoever (from what we've seen) and she kept him from getting laid. Sorry bud, but if you thought being naked and lying next to her who is still fully clothed was gonna get you laid, then maybe re-evaluate some stuff. Unless of course he had already had *** with the girl, but I doubt that.[/quote] I think it was because of her comments, and from what both he and Joey said, he had alot of things that he wanted to say to her anyway. So I guess that was just his chance to do so.

This episode was annoying for many reasons. 1- CJ has zero game, he needs pointers, and one big pointer is if you are naked in a bed and the girl is fully clothed, there's a problem. 2-Emilee walked in the room, not Ayiiia, so the whole yelling at Ayiiia wasn't necessary and just made him look like a *******, especially when he was yelling respect me while running around naked. 3-Ayiiia shoulda not let them get to her like that, cuz if Joey was attacking her THAT personally on the cutting issue, then that gives her the right to say whater the f!&* she wants.....ex:"at least my grandma is still alive"...that's a wrap, Ayiiia wins haha.

I think alcohol played a nice big role in all this. I don't think it wouldve happened if everyone had been sober. Maybe I'm wrong.

Wow, that episode was pretty gross. The only enjoyable segment was the stuff involving Jasmine. I wish Bronne had more screen time.

...and thats when we knew, Aiiiya was a cutter.

GOD I love AYIIIA LOL!!!! We going to rule the challenges....God willing :-)

[quote=DScott;101555]Wow, that episode was pretty gross. The only enjoyable segment was the stuff involving Jasmine. I wish Bronne had more screen time.[/quote] Bronneee, how I missed him.

I'm sorry; I have a huge soft spot for Aiiiya after this episode.

[quote=producer88;101703]GOD I love AYIIIA LOL!!!! We going to rule the challenges....God willing :-)[/quote] WE??? :confused:

This is by far the most thought out, unbiased and fair assessment of the thread! [quote=LCbaby;101519]I have not commented on this episode because I like both Ayiiia and Joey (and CJ for that matter). But why is everything about who went past the line first and the hardest, who had the worst comment, who is the most vindictive, etc. Hateful people are still hateful people. Angry people are still angry people. Are we really going to play the whole, "Let's rank cast members anger and issues on a scale and then debate each other about it"? Someone who tells someone to go cut themselves some more obviously has rage and issues. Someone who makes fun of someone for being adopted or having an abortion obviously has rage and issues. Why is someone better than someone else because of the levels of such attributes? I don't think it is right or fair to compare people's mistakes against each other. Joey and CJ and Ayiiia were all wrong here. What Joey said was heinous and hurtful, and whether or not he is sorry is not the issue. That is between him and his higher power if he believes in such. The same goes for Ayiiia, Emilee, CJ, Bronne..whoever. It's all expected. While it is wrong and horrible, it makes the Real World successful. It is why you watched last nights episode and feel the need to comment here. I, for one, am most fond of Ayiiia out of all of the girls. I just won't get into the whole who-was-the-most-wrong-and-why argument because I feel every party involved is wrong. Joey didn't believe Ayiiia, so rather than be fake and cater he stated his mind. However cruel, wrong, or hurtful his realness is - atleast he is being real. Forgiveness is the only resolution. May Joey, and Ayiiia both seek the help they need to make themselves okay and healthy (and happy) individuals. I can say that I find both super real, and that is why I like them as cast members and love this season. I just won't play the "he crossed the line" game with anyone. Self reflecting, I have crossed the line so many times in my life that I thank god I am not on national television. I'll probably cross a lot more. It's human nature to make mistakes, and cross lines. A person's character is what makes forgiveness and compassion viable.[/quote]

Joey didn't give a **** about the discomfort of his roommates while he was undergoing his highly irrational, fevered fixation with harming someone. This renders his sentiments about doing it for the Greater Good -- for the benefit of the roommates -- even more ironic and disingenuous. He was doing it out of a toxic grudge, plain and simple. He was visibly whiny and butthurt that Ayiiia wouldn't have *** with him, as evidenced by numerous Dailies videos. Furthermore, he absolutely sputtered with rage when Ayiiia wouldn't buy into his artificial posturing and contrived swagger. His entire demeanor smacks of overcompensation, and having Ayiiia around to remind him of this reality deeply bothered him. She wasn't having it. He detested that she didn't instantly roll over like a puppy when he apologized the first time, even though trust and friendship has to be gradually earned. Joey desperately wants friends, but primarily to strengthen his clout and to have people to schmooze, embrace, and superficially party with. But during moments where it actually matters -- when another person's physical and psychological safety is involved -- he's willing to throw his friend's reasonable requests under the bus, loyalty be ******. Because of the fact that he's highly irrational and emotionally-driven, he's utterly incapable of recognizing that people's disagreement is about a principle, not a person. It would be nice if forgiveness could happen. But alas, in my perspective, Joey has to demonstrate that he's not a malicious loser before this can happen, otherwise he'll inevitably repeat his behavior -- either towards Ayiiia or towards somebody else. It's not good enough to simply drop the subject. He also has to meaningfully [B]compensate[/B] for his failures. Until then, his perspective just reads: "Stop chastising me for abusing somebody; I shouldn't ever be held accountable for my own actions. But everybody else, naturally, should be accountable for theirs. Especially if it hurt [U]my[/U] feeeelings."

You know what....LC you made me think about the situation. I really do hope one day, BOTH parties forgive each other, and hopefully become civil. One things Jesus tried to teach us is forgiveness, and both parties had their share of problems.

The whole fight was a crazy a thing to watch and have to try and break up! Ayiiia cutting herself was really scary for me and I was scared for her as well, I always told her that if things ever got that bad again, I dont care what im doing come and get me. I would let her punch,kick me or whatever she needed to do that way she didnt harm herself. She is my BFF, i never wanted to see anything happen to her! Joey did take it way too far with the posting of signs around the house, I was really shocked that he did that and it was hard for me to see that "mean" side of him. Cause he was always looking out for me and helped me through times when I wanted to pack my bags and go. The Pat thing, yea high 5's suck but there is more in store and i am not going to say if it gets worse or better. You just have to wait and find out!

[quote=Jasmine;101843]The whole fight was a crazy a thing to watch and have to try and break up! Ayiiia cutting herself was really scary for me and I was scared for her as well, I always told her that if things ever got that bad again, I dont care what im doing come and get me. I would let her punch,kick me or whatever she needed to do that way she didnt harm herself. She is my BFF, i never wanted to see anything happen to her! Joey did take it way too far with the posting of signs around the house, I was really shocked that he did that and it was hard for me to see that "mean" side of him. Cause he was always looking out for me and helped me threw times when I wanted to pack my bags and go. The Pat thing, yea high 5's suck but there is more in store and i might not going to say if it gets worse or better. You just have to wait and find out![/quote] Jasmine, I really look up to you and commend you for being there and helping her. IT shows what an amazing friend/person you are. He does suck, and you deserve better!