And there's only so much helping that two people can do in an individual final. Kam and Leroy are both having weak seasons competitively (Leroy more so). It would actually make sense for some of the house to make sure Kam steals Cara's star.
Not Kam yelling "Do what's best for your game ladies and gentlemen" when what that really meant was "Get me my star." Kam then made that comment to Averey about going against her; that's a literal threat. Give me a break with how Kam isn't called out for any of these things!!!
I really don't understand the house helping Kam AND Leroy get a star. Why are you wanting a true pair to run the final together? They would work together to help one of them win!
The unaired moments of this season would undoubtedly be better than what we did get.
Thats what Cara basically did when she stopped Tina and Kam facing off? She openly admitted it was to protect her star that didn't benefit anyone in that deliberation but her.
I just do not know why yall cannot admit the moves being made do not benefit your favs and you don't like it. None of what Kam has been irrational gameplay for HER. Same with Cara.
Where did I say Kam's play has been irrational? I did NOT. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people having issues with Cara's moves, but not Kam's play. I 100% understand why both did what they did in those situations. Good for them for making it work. Cara is the one who's being called "shady," though, and is being picked on (Ace's words) and berated for weeks (Tina's words). Meanwhile Kam is the one who gets called "smart" and has people praising her. That is what I am addressing.
I also do think it's dumb for the house to just keep going along with whatever Kam says as they potentially let her and Leroy both get to the final at their expense. That's not a criticism of Kam; that's a criticism of people like Averey, Flora, Jay, etc. How exactly are they planning to get to the final? Laurel did say she wants Cara out because she's a threat (smart), and I assume Laurel is banking on there being some pre-final challenge she can win to get into the final?
Kam has gotten far more flack than Cara this season for playing a similar game. So I'm not sure how we can say Cara's been getting dragged. If anything I've seen people rationalize her moves more (this board specifically).
And, to your point I agree but when they rolled over and let Cara dictate Jasmine and V going in there wasn't a concern. And, if anything it makes more sense for Kam to knock out Tina and steal Cara's star. There's now a back and forth with star holders which mean someone could get a star handed to them without having to go in.
People have been giving Kam flack because she kept accusing people of playing a dumb game simply because they weren't doing what she wanted. Not to mention her picking a bone with Cara for not voting Rachel in. At that point in the game, would Kam had put her star on the line for Cara? I think not. People aren't annoyed by Kam's moves, it's moreso her sense of entitlement when it comes to other people not playing her game, moreso earlier in the season.
People have been giving Kam flack because she kept accusing people of playing a dumb game simply because they weren't doing what she wanted. Not to mention her picking a bone with Cara for not voting Rachel in. At that point in the game, would Kam had put her star on the line for Cara? I think not. People aren't annoyed by Kam's moves, it's moreso her sense of entitlement when it comes to other people not playing her game, moreso earlier in the season.
And if yall are annoyed at that then fine. But whatever move she makes or even Brandon/Jasmine (yes I'm beating a dead horse l) gets overly criticized when it makes sense for them.
Yall claim to be mad at her hypocrisy and proceed to be hypocritical. Be mad at what Kam is saying if you don't like it. But, everyone isn't being partial when it comes to the moves she's making and that's where the disconnect lies. And , that's my main gripe with the situation. Everyone isn't being consistent with what constitutes as smart moves and what is stupid.
And if yall are annoyed at that then fine. But whatever move she makes or even Brandon/Jasmine (yes I'm beating a dead horse l) gets overly criticized when it makes sense for them.
Yall claim to be mad at her hypocrisy and proceed to be hypocritical. Be mad at what Kam is saying if you don't like it. But, everyone isn't being partial when it comes to the moves she's making and that's where the disconnect lies. And , that's my main gripe with the situation. Everyone isn't being consistent with what constitutes as smart moves and what is stupid.
The difference is Cara isn't criticizing Kam as not being strategic, not playing smart, etc the way Kam speaks about Cara. In fact, Cara says in this episode "Kam is smart." I think both women are playing smart games in terms of what is good for them, but only one of them is giving credit to the other.
I'm also not sure what you mean about people not being partial when it comes to the moves she's making because I haven't seen anyone in here saying Kam orchestrating this daily so she gets to steal a star from Cara is a bad move for Kam.
Riddle me this; with everything in their history, has Cara ever initially targeted Laurel? I truly don't know and am asking. I know Laurel tried to throw things on Cutthroat to get rid of Cara. I know Laurel is targeting Cara here. I also know Cara has always been a shoulder for Laurel to lean on, despite everything (including this current season, as we've seen). It's wild how Laurel still goes at Cara personally and in the game when as far as I know Cara has always been supportive of Laurel personally and in the game.
Laurel is truly toxic for Cara, and Cara would be best to "cut the chemistry" there.
Cara always said that one of the reasons why she got in shape and improved so much on the show was partly because she was seeking Laurel's approval. Sometimes I feel she still is to some capacity. Kudos to Cara for being a shoulder for Laurel to cry on... but at the same time she should know by now how things go with her (specifically when Nicole is involved). Don't be a friend to someone who doesn't deserve it.
And if yall are annoyed at that then fine. But whatever move she makes or even Brandon/Jasmine (yes I'm beating a dead horse l) gets overly criticized when it makes sense for them.
Yall claim to be mad at her hypocrisy and proceed to be hypocritical. Be mad at what Kam is saying if you don't like it. But, everyone isn't being partial when it comes to the moves she's making and that's where the disconnect lies. And , that's my main gripe with the situation. Everyone isn't being consistent with what constitutes as smart moves and what is stupid.
The difference is Cara isn't criticizing Kam as not being strategic, not playing smart, etc the way Kam speaks about Cara. I think both are playing smart games in terms of what is good for them.
I'm also not sure what you mean about people not being partial when it comes to the moves she's making because I haven't seen anyone in here saying Kam orchestrating this daily so she gets to steal a star from Cara is a bad move for Kam.
You can go back and read what I'm talking about. The criticism isn't solely about her critiques of Cara in her confessionals (even if that plays a part.) And, barely anyone has logged on to discuss this episode so this isn't a fair marker.
Kam was being called scared for not calling out Laurel into an elimination when it was zero reason to do so. And, I'm supposed to believe there's not bias in that statement ?
Kam was being called scared for not calling out Laurel into an elimination when it was zero reason to do so. And, I'm supposed to believe there's not bias in that statement ?
It depends how you define "scared." To me I think someone is playing scared (which I see as different from smart) if they don't call try to get the big threats eliminated, and if they don't try to face the big threats themselves. To me, Kam has always portrayed herself as not being scared in terms of not being afraid to call out big names and to go against them. That's why I see Kam as not backing up what she says a lot (which, again, can be different from playing smart). To me trying to play a weaker person in an elimination while also trying to make sure weaker people are in the final is most definitely playing scared. I think Laurel is playing scared this season because she's not made any moves to go into elimination, and at the same time she's trying to keep her biggest threat out of the final. I recognize that's also smart playing, though. I don't take issue with it because Laurel seemingly owns that and isn't saying other people are playing scared.
I'm also sure there are other ways to view "scared" in this game, but what's where I'm coming from.
But what rational sense would it make for her to call out Laurel? That doesn't negate Kam not being scared because Laurel was never brought up as an option. It's only scary if she's told Laurel will be facing her and she's running from it.
And, on top of that Laurel doesn't have a star. She's a threat that can't even touch the final and it would be smart for everyone to keep it that way. And, if Kam knocked Tina out then and stole Cara's star, now two of the biggest threats don't have a leg to stand on.
We all perceive scared differently , but I fail to see how that isn't a smart situation to be in. The point is to win, everything else is pride related and that doesn't get you the money.
And, Kam doesn't have anything to prove in eliminations at this point.
But what rational sense would it make for her to call out Laurel? That doesn't negate Kam not being scared because Laurel was never brought up as an option. It's only scary if she's told Laurel will be facing her and she's running from it.
And, on top of that Laurel doesn't have a star. She's a threat that can't even touch the final and it would be smart for everyone to keep it that way. And, if Kam knocked Tina out then and stole Cara's star, now two of the biggest threats don't have a leg to stand on.
We all perceive scared differently , but I fail to see how that isn't a smart situation to be in. The point is to win, everything else is pride related and that doesn't get you the money.
And, Kam doesn't have anything to prove in eliminations at this point.
None of this contradicts what I wrote, and I have no idea what the statement about Kam not needing to prove anything in eliminations is about since I never said she had anything to prove. I'm not even sure what is going on in this discussion at this point.
This is the problem with stars or skulls, people always think elims are the end all. The goal should never be to go into elimination, smart game play is sending 2 threats in, then facing a lay up to get your own star.
But what rational sense would it make for her to call out Laurel? That doesn't negate Kam not being scared because Laurel was never brought up as an option. It's only scary if she's told Laurel will be facing her and she's running from it.
And, on top of that Laurel doesn't have a star. She's a threat that can't even touch the final and it would be smart for everyone to keep it that way. And, if Kam knocked Tina out then and stole Cara's star, now two of the biggest threats don't have a leg to stand on.
We all perceive scared differently , but I fail to see how that isn't a smart situation to be in. The point is to win, everything else is pride related and that doesn't get you the money.
And, Kam doesn't have anything to prove in eliminations at this point.
None of this contradicts what I wrote, so I am not even sure what is going on at this point.
Half the statements you make contradict the other so I'm not surprised confusion eventually came to you.
The goal should never be to go into elimination, smart game play is sending 2 threats in, then facing a lay up to get your own star.
I think pretty much everyone on this board and in the actual game would agree that is smart.
At the same time, why is it smart to face a layup to get a star? Because it's scary to face a threat.
It's idiotic to choose to face someone stronger than you in elimination, so if you consider basic logic "scared" than sure it's a scared game.
You do know that "smart" and "scared" are not synonyms, right? Something can be both logical/smart and scared because those are two different concepts.
But what rational sense would it make for her to call out Laurel? That doesn't negate Kam not being scared because Laurel was never brought up as an option. It's only scary if she's told Laurel will be facing her and she's running from it.
And, on top of that Laurel doesn't have a star. She's a threat that can't even touch the final and it would be smart for everyone to keep it that way. And, if Kam knocked Tina out then and stole Cara's star, now two of the biggest threats don't have a leg to stand on.
We all perceive scared differently , but I fail to see how that isn't a smart situation to be in. The point is to win, everything else is pride related and that doesn't get you the money.
And, Kam doesn't have anything to prove in eliminations at this point.
None of this contradicts what I wrote, so I am not even sure what is going on at this point.
Half the statements you make contradict the other so I'm not surprised confusion eventually came to you.
Bound to happen.
Oh, stop with the gaslighting. Resorting to personal attacks because you made an irrelevant post is beneath you.
Also that's not irrelevant if you're stating a move is scared when I explained the rationale behind it. If you view it as scared then fine , but that doesn't apply to this context, you're saying that because of who is doing it.
And, you didn't ask me this question but the only one looking at smart and scared as a synonym is you. We're just responding to what you're saying about a "scared" move when the basis behind it being scared is built on bias.Not rational thought.
I was attacking your flimsy arguments, not you personally. That's the only thing me or you can say about each other, how we feel about this.
Fair point, I initially misread what you wrote.
Having said that, you are still responding to points no one has made (such as saying Kam doesn't need to prove herself in eliminations, when not a single poster here has said she does). That's the type of thing leading to confusion.
And, you didn't ask me this question but the only one looking at smart and scared as a synonym is you. We're just responding to what you're saying about a "scared" move when the basis behind it being scared is built on bias.Not rational thought.
What has been said by multiple people in the house including Laurel is that they want to get rid of Cara because she's a threat in the final. To me that is both smart and scared. That is not me viewing them as synonyms, that is me viewing them as separate concepts. If you want Cara out because you think she might beat you in the final, it means you are scared of facing her in the final.
I have no idea how she didn't pull the trigger. She's was honestly terrified Kam would otracize her from the whole house which is bizarre because she clearly has friends in Derek, Ryan, and more than friends in Adam. I'm so disappointed too.
I have no idea how she didn't pull the trigger. She's was honestly terrified Kam would otracize her from the whole house which is bizarre because she clearly has friends in Derek, Ryan, and more than friends in Adam. I'm so disappointed too.
Yeah Kam's threat from the sideline hit its mark, but what is Averey's plan moving forward? Does she really think Kam is going to help her get a star?
And there's only so much helping that two people can do in an individual final. Kam and Leroy are both having weak seasons competitively (Leroy more so). It would actually make sense for some of the house to make sure Kam steals Cara's star.
One is a bigger threat than the other.
Where did I say Kam's play has been irrational? I did NOT. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people having issues with Cara's moves, but not Kam's play. I 100% understand why both did what they did in those situations. Good for them for making it work. Cara is the one who's being called "shady," though, and is being picked on (Ace's words) and berated for weeks (Tina's words). Meanwhile Kam is the one who gets called "smart" and has people praising her. That is what I am addressing.
I also do think it's dumb for the house to just keep going along with whatever Kam says as they potentially let her and Leroy both get to the final at their expense. That's not a criticism of Kam; that's a criticism of people like Averey, Flora, Jay, etc. How exactly are they planning to get to the final? Laurel did say she wants Cara out because she's a threat (smart), and I assume Laurel is banking on there being some pre-final challenge she can win to get into the final?
Kam has gotten far more flack than Cara this season for playing a similar game. So I'm not sure how we can say Cara's been getting dragged. If anything I've seen people rationalize her moves more (this board specifically).
And, to your point I agree but when they rolled over and let Cara dictate Jasmine and V going in there wasn't a concern. And, if anything it makes more sense for Kam to knock out Tina and steal Cara's star. There's now a back and forth with star holders which mean someone could get a star handed to them without having to go in.
Averey is playing scared in general.
People have been giving Kam flack because she kept accusing people of playing a dumb game simply because they weren't doing what she wanted. Not to mention her picking a bone with Cara for not voting Rachel in. At that point in the game, would Kam had put her star on the line for Cara? I think not. People aren't annoyed by Kam's moves, it's moreso her sense of entitlement when it comes to other people not playing her game, moreso earlier in the season.
Both are playing a great game.
This sums it up nicely.
And if yall are annoyed at that then fine. But whatever move she makes or even Brandon/Jasmine (yes I'm beating a dead horse l) gets overly criticized when it makes sense for them.
Yall claim to be mad at her hypocrisy and proceed to be hypocritical. Be mad at what Kam is saying if you don't like it. But, everyone isn't being partial when it comes to the moves she's making and that's where the disconnect lies. And , that's my main gripe with the situation. Everyone isn't being consistent with what constitutes as smart moves and what is stupid.
The difference is Cara isn't criticizing Kam as not being strategic, not playing smart, etc the way Kam speaks about Cara. In fact, Cara says in this episode "Kam is smart." I think both women are playing smart games in terms of what is good for them, but only one of them is giving credit to the other.
I'm also not sure what you mean about people not being partial when it comes to the moves she's making because I haven't seen anyone in here saying Kam orchestrating this daily so she gets to steal a star from Cara is a bad move for Kam.
What is smart: The moves that both Kam and Cara Maria are making to advance in the game.
What is stupid/hypocritical: Criticizing the opposition for making the same moves you would to advance in the game.
Not sure who is accusing who of doing what on this forum, as I don't frequent here as much, but I also don't see what the controversy is.
Riddle me this; with everything in their history, has Cara ever initially targeted Laurel? I truly don't know and am asking. I know Laurel tried to throw things on Cutthroat to get rid of Cara. I know Laurel is targeting Cara here. I also know Cara has always been a shoulder for Laurel to lean on, despite everything (including this current season, as we've seen). It's wild how Laurel still goes at Cara personally and in the game when as far as I know Cara has always been supportive of Laurel personally and in the game.
Laurel is truly toxic for Cara, and Cara would be best to "cut the chemistry" there.
Cara always said that one of the reasons why she got in shape and improved so much on the show was partly because she was seeking Laurel's approval. Sometimes I feel she still is to some capacity. Kudos to Cara for being a shoulder for Laurel to cry on... but at the same time she should know by now how things go with her (specifically when Nicole is involved). Don't be a friend to someone who doesn't deserve it.
You can go back and read what I'm talking about. The criticism isn't solely about her critiques of Cara in her confessionals (even if that plays a part.) And, barely anyone has logged on to discuss this episode so this isn't a fair marker.
Kam was being called scared for not calling out Laurel into an elimination when it was zero reason to do so. And, I'm supposed to believe there's not bias in that statement ?
It depends how you define "scared." To me I think someone is playing scared (which I see as different from smart) if they don't call try to get the big threats eliminated, and if they don't try to face the big threats themselves. To me, Kam has always portrayed herself as not being scared in terms of not being afraid to call out big names and to go against them. That's why I see Kam as not backing up what she says a lot (which, again, can be different from playing smart). To me trying to play a weaker person in an elimination while also trying to make sure weaker people are in the final is most definitely playing scared. I think Laurel is playing scared this season because she's not made any moves to go into elimination, and at the same time she's trying to keep her biggest threat out of the final. I recognize that's also smart playing, though. I don't take issue with it because Laurel seemingly owns that and isn't saying other people are playing scared.
I'm also sure there are other ways to view "scared" in this game, but what's where I'm coming from.
But what rational sense would it make for her to call out Laurel? That doesn't negate Kam not being scared because Laurel was never brought up as an option. It's only scary if she's told Laurel will be facing her and she's running from it.
And, on top of that Laurel doesn't have a star. She's a threat that can't even touch the final and it would be smart for everyone to keep it that way. And, if Kam knocked Tina out then and stole Cara's star, now two of the biggest threats don't have a leg to stand on.
We all perceive scared differently , but I fail to see how that isn't a smart situation to be in. The point is to win, everything else is pride related and that doesn't get you the money.
And, Kam doesn't have anything to prove in eliminations at this point.
None of this contradicts what I wrote, and I have no idea what the statement about Kam not needing to prove anything in eliminations is about since I never said she had anything to prove. I'm not even sure what is going on in this discussion at this point.
This is the problem with stars or skulls, people always think elims are the end all. The goal should never be to go into elimination, smart game play is sending 2 threats in, then facing a lay up to get your own star.
I think pretty much everyone on this board and in the actual game would agree that is smart.
At the same time, why is it smart to face a layup to get a star? Because it's scary to face a threat.
Half the statements you make contradict the other so I'm not surprised confusion eventually came to you.
Bound to happen.
It's idiotic to choose to face someone stronger than you in elimination, so if you consider basic logic "scared" than sure it's a scared game.
You do know that "smart" and "scared" are not synonyms, right? Something can be both logical/smart and scared because those are two different concepts.
Oh, stop with the gaslighting. Resorting to personal attacks because you made an irrelevant post is beneath you.
I was attacking your flimsy arguments, not you personally. That's the only thing me or you can say about each other, how we feel about this.
Miss Stucky this episode was not a good look!
Also that's not irrelevant if you're stating a move is scared when I explained the rationale behind it. If you view it as scared then fine , but that doesn't apply to this context, you're saying that because of who is doing it.
And, you didn't ask me this question but the only one looking at smart and scared as a synonym is you. We're just responding to what you're saying about a "scared" move when the basis behind it being scared is built on bias.Not rational thought.
Why was that lil white girl Avary brought back? She ain't bring nothing, lmao. Playing scared.
Fair point, I initially misread what you wrote.
Having said that, you are still responding to points no one has made (such as saying Kam doesn't need to prove herself in eliminations, when not a single poster here has said she does). That's the type of thing leading to confusion.
Averey did disappoint me here too.
What has been said by multiple people in the house including Laurel is that they want to get rid of Cara because she's a threat in the final. To me that is both smart and scared. That is not me viewing them as synonyms, that is me viewing them as separate concepts. If you want Cara out because you think she might beat you in the final, it means you are scared of facing her in the final.
Michele would have not been afraid to take out ANYONE in an elimination
Take notes ladies!
I have no idea how she didn't pull the trigger. She's was honestly terrified Kam would otracize her from the whole house which is bizarre because she clearly has friends in Derek, Ryan, and more than friends in Adam. I'm so disappointed too.
Yeah Kam's threat from the sideline hit its mark, but what is Averey's plan moving forward? Does she really think Kam is going to help her get a star?
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