[QUOTE=KIsOpenDoors;433513]Especially after watching the Ruins ***** They Should Have Shown, I have no doubt that Kenny & Evan did a ton of physical pranks on the girls throughout the season. Did they mean anything sexual by the prank on Tonya? I highly doubt it, but I can definitely see the possibility of the two of them doing what they were accused of.[/QUOTE]
I don't. I'm not too sure about Kenny but Evan isn't a dumb***. The dude is trying to be a marketing director or something like that so why the **** would he jeopardize his career and basically his whole life for doing something like that. Come on now Tonya ******* ate a fly and drank a beer to digest it on like episode 4 or 5! The girl is crazy, delusional and an alcoholic.
But his topic has been discussed again and again. We have to move on even though the bull**** still reeks.
[QUOTE=JayTee;433510]Even though I despise Tonya because she's a junkie who I believed falsely accused 2 challenge legends of doing something that producers would NEVER let them do in front of their faces, she is definitely a Challenge superstar. Do I care about her in any way or wish her the best of luck for whatever she wants to do in the future? No.[/QUOTE]
I don't respect Tonya in any way but who knows what they did. We weren't there. Stating they absolutely didn't do anything inappropriate is just as ridiculous as those that claim with certainty that they did. She's made allegations--a settlement in no way proves guilt. She can be delusional...they could have done something. You have to leave room for the possibility of both.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;433483]Theresa didn't really prove anything on Free Agents IMO. She's still as useless as she's ever been.[/QUOTE]
AHAHA really? This **** again? How are you allowed to keep making these comments and not explain yourself. It is completely inflammatory and unwarranted. The fact that she is Fresh Meat is NOT reason enough. Keep your asinine thoughts to yourself.
[QUOTE=JayTee;433510]Even though I despise Tonya because she's a junkie who I believed falsely accused 2 challenge legends of doing something that producers would NEVER let them do in front of their faces, she is definitely a Challenge superstar. Do I care about her in any way or wish her the best of luck for whatever she wants to do in the future? No.[/QUOTE]
Well,
"...is a junkie?" Have you a shred of proof? She was twice in rehab for an alcohol problem. As far as I know, you can count on perhaps two hands the cast members who are not recreational users or have a medical marijuana card in Calif. Are you aware the after The Ruins Tonya was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and nearly died following surgery and again during the long course of treatment? Hard to be a junkie when you're that sick.
"...falsely accused...?" First, Tonya didn't bring forward the accusation. It came from another Ruins cast member who was present. That cast member first present me with the information and then informed Tonya. It was later corroborated by other cast members, both by cast members who witnessed the event and by other cast on the show who heard about it within a matter of hours.
"... producers would NEVER let them do in front of their faces..." It's hard to know if things were allowed to happen or if events occurred without any immediate awareness by the people in charge on set in Thailand. There is the evidence that a cast member's toothbrush was replaced by a representative of production. I wonder how they knew that would be a good idea?
[QUOTE=MTV Junky;433523]AHAHA really? This **** again? How are you allowed to keep making these comments and not explain yourself. It is completely inflammatory and unwarranted. The fact that she is Fresh Meat is NOT reason enough. Keep your asinine thoughts to yourself.[/QUOTE]
1.It has nothing to do with her being Fresh Meat. I honestly believe that she is useless and doesn't add anything substantial to the show. I mean if she just stopped doing challenges nothing would change. There's really no point in casting her. what Purpose does she serve? what has she done that anyone else hasn't done? All she's done is have *** and make stupid moves. Nothing entertaining or original there. Unnecessary casting.
2.Where in the **** do you get off telling me to keep my thought's to myself? I have as much right as everyone else to speak my mind about this show and it's castmbers You don't get to tell me to be quiet.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Can't even have an opinion without people ******** all over you for it.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;433526]1.It has nothing to do with her being Fresh Meat. I honestly believe that she is useless and doesn't add anything substantial to the show. I mean if she just stopped doing challenges nothing would change. There's really no point in casting her. what Purpose does she serve? what has she done that anyone else hasn't done? All she's done is have *** and make stupid moves. Nothing entertaining or original there. Unnecessary casting.
2.Where in the **** do you get off telling me to keep my thought's to myself? I have as much right as everyone else to speak my mind about this show and it's castmbers You don't get to tell me to be quiet.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Can't even have an opinion without people ******** all over you for it.[/QUOTE]
1. I highly doubt that. If you want to go down that route what do any of the cast members add that is any different from each other? Her political game isn't great I'll give you that but she is physical threat. You don't seem to enjoy the physical part of the game. What exactly do you like about The Challenge and why do you keep watching and posting here?
2. You're right, you do have a right to your opinion, but you call every Fresh Meat cast member useless and it's tiring. We all get it. You don't have to shove it down our throats every time one of their names come up.
[QUOTE=KIsOpenDoors;433513]Especially after watching the Ruins ***** They Should Have Shown, [B]I have no doubt that Kenny & Evan did a ton of physical pranks on the girls throughout the season.[/B] Did they mean anything sexual by the prank on Tonya? I highly doubt it, but I can definitely see the possibility of the two of them doing what they were accused of.[/QUOTE]
This is why I'm leaning toward them doing it. I mean we'll never really know. But considering that those two ****ed with the girls a lot during that season and several castmembers stating that they can go WAY too far and don't know when to stop. And when you kinda leads me to believe that they did it. We won't truly know but it's what I think.
V1Man, I have two questions that I hope you're comfortable answering since you have lots of inside info on some of the most well-known cast members.
1) Were either of her rehab stints before The Ruins?
2) Is Tonya doing better now? Her appearance on The Ruins was by far the worst of any cast ember I can remember, and nothing comes close. I am still surprised production didn't send her home almost immediately.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;433526]1.It has nothing to do with her being Fresh Meat. I honestly believe that she is useless and doesn't add anything substantial to the show. [B]I mean if she just stopped doing challenges nothing would change[/B]. There's really no point in casting her. what Purpose does she serve? what has she done that anyone else hasn't done? All she's done is have *** and make stupid moves. Nothing entertaining or original there. Unnecessary casting.
2.[B]Where in the **** do you get off telling me to keep my thought's to myself? I have as much right as everyone else to speak my mind about this show and it's castmbers You don't get to tell me to be quiet.[/B]
[B]This is exactly what I'm talking about. Can't even have an opinion without people ******** all over you for it.[/B][/QUOTE]
Basically, and I like Theresa lol. People just can't handle different view points
[QUOTE=KIsOpenDoors;433529]V1Man, I have two questions that I hope you're comfortable answering since you have lots of inside info on some of the most well-known cast members.
1) Were either of her rehab stints before The Ruins?
2) Is Tonya doing better now? Her appearance on The Ruins was by far the worst of any cast ember I can remember, and nothing comes close. I am still surprised production didn't send her home almost immediately.[/QUOTE]
Tonya should have never been there. I blame production as well as her friends/family. Someone needed to intervene.
[QUOTE=thefinishlin;433531]Basically, and I like Theresa lol. People just can't handle different view points[/QUOTE]
I can tolerate a differing view point when it has substance.
I think what it boils down to is that we watch the show for ENTIRELY different reasons. I watch it for the competition. I love watching people push themselves to their physical limits. This is why I appreciated the Jessica/Cara Maria elimination, and the Nia/Cara Maria elimination. This is also why I was upset that CT got eliminated by a puzzle challenge. To me that provided nothing. I guess some people enjoy that?
One of my all time favorites to watch was Derrick because he was the personification of heart and determination.
[QUOTE=V1man;433525]Well,
"...is a junkie?" Have you a shred of proof? She was twice in rehab for an alcohol problem. As far as I know, you can count on perhaps two hands the cast members who are not recreational users or have a medical marijuana card in Calif. Are you aware the after The Ruins Tonya was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and nearly died following surgery and again during the long course of treatment? Hard to be a junkie when you're that sick.
"...falsely accused...?" First, Tonya didn't bring forward the accusation. It came from another Ruins cast member who was present. That cast member first present me with the information and then informed Tonya. It was later corroborated by other cast members, both by cast members who witnessed the event and by other cast on the show who heard about it within a matter of hours.
"... producers would NEVER let them do in front of their faces..." It's hard to know if things were allowed to happen or if events occurred without any immediate awareness by the people in charge on set in Thailand. There is the evidence that a cast member's toothbrush was replaced by a representative of production. I wonder how they knew that would be a good idea?[/QUOTE]
Way to bring the "cancer" discussion to try and win some "emotion" points by everyone on this board. I'm not 100% positive they didn't do anything, but I'm almost positive it wasn't rape. But like KVM said, these are nothing but allegations and no one was proven to be guilty. It's just funny how some people believe Tonya's drunkass when even she doesn't recall any of this happening. She may or may not be a junkie (or used to be a junkie) but she is an alcoholic which is just as bad. I mean you're defending someone who can't put her liquor down and swallowed a fly and then downed a beer can.
When a a woman really hates someone, she'll go to extreme lengths to mess someone's life up. Just look up the story of Brian Banks.
I, and every challenge fan just has to accept the fact that Evan and Kenny will most likely never be back because even if it's just allegations MTV wouldn't want to be surrounded by the word "rape" since MTV's main viewers are people with an iq of 70 who will believe anything that sounds horrible.
A cornell student with huge aspirations in marketing and people think he would give all that up for something so stupid.
[QUOTE=JayTee;433541]Way to bring the "cancer" discussion to try and win some "emotion" points by everyone on this board. I'm not 100% positive they didn't do anything, but I'm almost positive it wasn't rape. But like KVM said, these are nothing but allegations and no one was proven to be guilty. It's just funny how some people believe Tonya's drunkass when even she doesn't recall any of this happening. She may or may not be a junkie (or used to be a junkie) but she is an alcoholic which is just as bad. I mean you're defending someone who can't put her liquor down and swallowed a fly and then downed a beer can.
When a a woman really hates someone, she'll go to extreme lengths to mess someone's life up. Just look up the story of Brian Banks.
I, and every challenge fan just has to accept the fact that Evan and Kenny will most likely never be back because even if it's just allegations MTV wouldn't want to be surrounded by the word "rape" since MTV's main viewers are people with an iq of 70 who will believe anything that sounds horrible.
A cornell student with huge aspirations in marketing and people think he would give all that up for something so stupid.[/QUOTE]
Let's be completely honest
1. V1Man absolutely played a desperate card with the cancer talk. Good people and evil people get cancer...so do people in the middle. Tonya having cancer in no way alters the person she was while on The Ruins. Maybe that scare has changed her for the better since then but that doesn't alter who she was when she was there.
2. Cornell students are just as capable of committing sexual assault as anyone else. People with a lot going for them can do something stupid.
You're both reaching at times with these comments. V1Man because of his bias...
[QUOTE=MTV Junky;433527]1. I highly doubt that. If you want to go down that route what do any of the cast members add that is any different from each other? Her political game isn't great I'll give you that but she is physical threat. You don't seem to enjoy the physical part of the game. What exactly do you like about The Challenge and why do you keep watching and posting here?
2. You're right, you do have a right to your opinion, but you call every Fresh Meat cast member useless and it's tiring. We all get it. You don't have to shove it down our throats every time one of their names come up.[/QUOTE]
1. You do Kinda have a point. But here's the thing..other castmembers actually ADD something to the show. Theresa doesn't. I mean she's a competitor but so what? It she's not the only one and She's not even entertaining. her making dumb moves isn't entertaining at all IMO. She's basically a *********. And I don't enjoy the physical aspect of this show AS much as the entertainment. I feel like when it comes to the competition. It's stale and predictable. It's always the same people at the end and it's always the same people that win. What is there to care about regarding competition?
2. If you're so Tired of my talking about Fresh Meat maybe you should Ignore my posts then.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433532]Tonya should have never been there. I blame production as well as her friends/family. Someone needed to intervene.[/QUOTE]
For once I agree with you.
[QUOTE=MTV Junky;433534]I can tolerate a differing view point when it has substance.
I think what it boils down to is that we watch the show for ENTIRELY different reasons. I watch it for the competition. I love watching people push themselves to their physical limits. This is why I appreciated the Jessica/Cara Maria elimination, and the Nia/Cara Maria elimination. This is also why I was upset that CT got eliminated by a puzzle challenge. To me that provided nothing. I guess some people enjoy that?
One of my all time favorites to watch was Derrick because he was the personification of heart and determination.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I don't watch so much for the competition but to see people from various Real World/Road Rules seasons interact with each other and compete for money. I don't care so much for this Serious Extreme competition this show has turned into..The basic concept is what keeps me there watching.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;433545]Yeah. I don't watch so much for the competition but to see people from various Real World/Road Rules seasons interact with each other and compete for money. I don't care so much for this Serious Extreme competition this show has turned into..The basic concept is what keeps me there watching.[/QUOTE]
Which is why you don't like Theresa and those that care about competition do.
This is no longer the RW/RR Challenge...they changed that years ago
[QUOTE=KIsOpenDoors;433529]V1Man, I have two questions that I hope you're comfortable answering since you have lots of inside info on some of the most well-known cast members.
1) Were either of her rehab stints before The Ruins?
2) Is Tonya doing better now? Her appearance on The Ruins was by far the worst of any cast ember I can remember, and nothing comes close. I am still surprised production didn't send her home almost immediately.[/QUOTE]
1) Yes, both were from before Thailand. The second was just before The Ruins, and all the info from her rehab stay was shared with BMP. I was Tonya's emergency contact person for that challenge and talked at length to the BMP attorney before Tonya agreed to do the challenge and certain promises were made regarding alcohol. In my opinion, as a direct party to those conversations, those promises were not met.
2) Tonya has been doing well for quite some time. She is married and living a reality TV free life. You could probably speculate about why she was not immediately sent home based upon my response to your first question.
[QUOTE=JayTee;433541]Way to bring the "cancer" discussion to try and win some "emotion" points by everyone on this board. I'm not 100% positive they didn't do anything, but I'm almost positive it wasn't rape. But like KVM said, these are nothing but allegations and no one was proven to be guilty. It's just funny how some people believe Tonya's drunkass when even she doesn't recall any of this happening. She may or may not be a junkie (or used to be a junkie) but she is an alcoholic which is just as bad. I mean you're defending someone who can't put her liquor down and swallowed a fly and then downed a beer can.
When a a woman really hates someone, she'll go to extreme lengths to mess someone's life up. Just look up the story of Brian Banks.
I, and every challenge fan just has to accept the fact that Evan and Kenny will most likely never be back because even if it's just allegations MTV wouldn't want to be surrounded by the word "rape" since MTV's main viewers are people with an iq of 70 who will believe anything that sounds horrible.
A cornell student with huge aspirations in marketing and people think he would give all that up for something so stupid.[/QUOTE]
You called her a junkie. I simply disputed that by the evidence of her medical situation which bears factually on the matter at hand.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433544]Let's be completely honest
1. V1Man absolutely played a desperate card with the cancer talk. Good people and evil people get cancer...so do people in the middle. Tonya having cancer in no way alters the person she was while on The Ruins. Maybe that scare has changed her for the better since then but that doesn't alter who she was when she was there.
2. Cornell students are just as capable of committing sexual assault as anyone else. People with a lot going for them can do something stupid.
You're both reaching at times with these comments. V1Man because of his bias...[/QUOTE]
1. There is nothing desperate at all here, as I've noted above. "E fructu arbor illa." Given all the events that occurred in Thailand, no one regrets more than I that Tonya was in that cast. For her, however, it ended as a positive, life-changing experience. It simply was "****" getting to that end.
2. We agree. However, you fail to note that my perspective is based on actual knowledge of and involvement in the events which transpired, whereas JayTee has no factual basis for his comments whatsoever. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion, but no one should mistake the difference in the two perspectives.
And with this reply, I'm off on vacation.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433544]Let's be completely honest
1. V1Man absolutely played a desperate card with the cancer talk. Good people and evil people get cancer...so do people in the middle. Tonya having cancer in no way alters the person she was while on The Ruins. Maybe that scare has changed her for the better since then but that doesn't alter who she was when she was there.
2. Cornell students are just as capable of committing sexual assault as anyone else. People with a lot going for them can do something stupid.
You're both reaching at times with these comments. V1Man because of his bias...[/QUOTE]
We've seen Evan on like 6 challenges. We pretty much have a good idea of his personality and how he is as a person to an extent. He's a freaking Canadian moose that cracks a lot of jokes. He isnt some quiet kid in the corner or huge ****** with nothing going for him. He fits in everywhere he goes. I'm not saying he's some sort of angel, but we have a good idea of who he is and what his limits are. He has never went ape**** like CT or degrade a woman as bad as Bananas did to Evelyn on The Island.
The most he has done was put a plunger in Katie's bed and kick Veronica to the curb after he tooted it.
The Challenge is a little hostile but I seriously doubt any Television channel or media juggernaut like Viacom would let rape happen on these things.
I don't think it happened based on what Susie said but we will never know the truth but besides all of the allegations Tonya should have never been there in the first place. Seeing the fragile state she was in and how she was behaving and BMP didn't send her home is absurd. She had no buisness being there, it wasn't even good TV it was just sad at that point.
[QUOTE=V1man;433565]
1. There is nothing desperate at all here, as I've noted above. "E fructu arbor illa." Given all the events that occurred in Thailand, no one regrets more than I that Tonya was in that cast. For her, however, it ended as a positive, life-changing experience. It simply was "****" getting to that end.
2. We agree. However, you fail to note that my perspective is based on actual knowledge of and involvement in the events which transpired, whereas JayTee has no factual basis for his comments whatsoever. Of course, he is entitled to his opinion, but no one should mistake the difference in the two perspectives.
And with this reply, I'm off on vacation.[/QUOTE]
Let's not also ignore that your "facts" can easily be blinded by your bias. How one interrupts information can be different especially when biases exist. You believe you know what happened based on the information you received but that doesn't mean you truly know what happened. In the end, you're too close to the situation to be able to discuss it because any comments made you take personally. And, yes, for a time Tonya was a "junkie" or at the very least someone that had a substance abuse problem. You can take offense to the comment made but you have to be able to step back and look at things without your emotions. You refuse to do that when Tonya is involved IMO. Production wasn't response for keeping her away from alcohol. She's a grown woman--she should have never put herself in that spot if she couldn't handle it. See Dan on Cutthroat. He was ready. Tonya wasn't. She needed someone she trusted to prevent her from going. Those closest to her failed her regardless of what resulted later.
CAN WE MOVE ON PLEASE!
****, there's two sides to this, either you think it happened or you think it didn't. All three of the involved parties are never going to be on a challenge again, simple as that, this conversation never leads anywhere, its just arguing that usually gets personal and frankly it is annoying... just my 2 cents
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433547]Which is why you don't like Theresa and those that care about competition do.
This is no longer the RW/RR Challenge...they changed that years ago[/QUOTE]
I've said this before..I don't care what this show is called. It being called the Challenge doesn't justify Theresa Being on the show. And i do care about the competition but not as much as the entertainment. I mean I like seeing them compete but it's not as important to me as seeing them having fun or Playing Pranks or doing Odd ****.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433572]Let's not also ignore that your "facts" can easily be blinded by your bias. How one interrupts information can be different especially when biases exist. You believe you know what happened based on the information you received but that doesn't mean you truly know what happened. In the end, you're too close to the situation to be able to discuss it because any comments made you take personally.[/QUOTE]
However, he is privy to information that we aren't fully aware of. For example, he knows of people who claimed to have either seen the incident or have heard about it immediately after. Based on reports on trustworthy sites that are entirely neutral (news and entertainment sites like Entertainment Weekly and Salon), this can be verified. Now I can sit here and guess that people like Wes, Evelyn, or Kimberly were called for depositions based on a semi-educated guess (looking at when they were eliminated, their relationships with Evan & Kenny afterwards, etc), but it's just a guess. V1Man is clearly going to take Tonya's side on this issue, but he certainly knows more about the facts of the case than all but maybe 20 people in the world.
V1 is taking Tonya's side because he supposedly knows her. So he's being biased towards the other party since he's not friends with either of them. Average behavior from your average human being.
[QUOTE=CTRoyLeeFAN;433575]CAN WE MOVE ON PLEASE!
****, there's two sides to this, either you think it happened or you think it didn't. All three of the involved parties are never going to be on a challenge again, simple as that, this conversation never leads anywhere, its just arguing that usually gets personal and frankly it is annoying... just my 2 cents[/QUOTE]
You know. You can just ignore it and not read it.
[QUOTE=KIsOpenDoors;433584]However, he is privy to information that we aren't fully aware of. For example, he knows of people who claimed to have either seen the incident or have heard about it immediately after. Based on reports on trustworthy sites that are entirely neutral (news and entertainment sites like Entertainment Weekly and Salon), this can be verified. Now I can sit here and guess that people like Wes, Evelyn, or Kimberly were called for depositions based on a semi-educated guess (looking at when they were eliminated, their relationships with Evan & Kenny afterwards, etc), but it's just a guess. V1Man is clearly going to take Tonya's side on this issue, but he certainly knows more about the facts of the case than all but maybe 20 people in the world.[/QUOTE]
He knows a side of the story and the only side he's interested in.
[QUOTE=JayTee;433566]We've seen Evan on like 6 challenges. We pretty much have a good idea of his personality and how he is as a person to an extent. He's a freaking Canadian moose that cracks a lot of jokes. He isnt some quiet kid in the corner or huge ****** with nothing going for him. He fits in everywhere he goes. I'm not saying he's some sort of angel, but we have a good idea of who he is and what his limits are. He has never went ape**** like CT or degrade a woman as bad as Bananas did to Evelyn on The Island.
The most he has done was put a plunger in Katie's bed and kick Veronica to the curb after he tooted it.
The Challenge is a little hostile but I seriously doubt any Television channel or media juggernaut like Viacom would let rape happen on these things.[/QUOTE]
Right, he is a generally affable, extremely outgoing guy who is smart and a loudmouth. When he is with his friends who are equally outgoing and adventurous, he likes to play pranks and be the center of attention. Remember, no one is accusing the guys of raping Tonya at gunpoint or anything like that. The accusation is that they stuck a cast member's toothbrush (widely considered to be Wes, who was not aware of this) inside her while she was passed out.
There are multiple scenes that even made the edited episodes where Tonya is very drunk and people like Susie and Kim are complaining about how she passes out naked or without all of her clothes on. There are also scenes where guys like Johnny, Evan, and Kenny play pranks on each other, as well as various girls and guys throughout the house. Most of the pranks are relatively harmless. Others are more extreme. I can't remember who did it (it was definitely one of JEK), but someone poured a bucket of urine on Sarah. Now Sarah is the type of person who desperately wants positive attention from the "cool guys", so she'll laugh that off. I can see someone else not laughing that type of thing off. Same with the toothbrush incident.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;433547]Which is why you don't like Theresa and those that care about competition do.
[B]This is no longer the RW/RR Challenge...they changed that years ago[/B][/QUOTE]
What show are you watching? It still is that show...while I agree with a few things that Debut Album talks about, I still count the Fresh Meat as cast members and even Camilla, but this still is 'The Challenge'. They just dropped the name because sadly Road Rules is no longer around (which was a better show then Real World imo). It still is MTV cast members from either the world of the challenge (FM / SB), The Real World, and when we get lucky enough Road Rules competing for cast...so it still is the RW/RR Challenge, until they start letting people in that did not originate in 'that world' (like adding cast members from other shows like Jersey Shore, etc) it will always be that show.
My two cents.
Debut Album, when you consistently feel the need to drop a snide remark anytime a FMer is concerned and remind us of your dislike for them, that is when people get annoyed. You love to dispute your opinions as facts: see you saying FM/Camila are unless and bring nothing, yet say Nate/Priscilla have potential. It is just laughable how biased you are.
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