[QUOTE=asdasd9999;394743]Charlie finished in 9th place and was first voted out at the merge. That is not coming close to winning the game. There is so much that happens post-merge that saying a 9th place finisher is close just isn't true. Ozzy came close in Cook Islands and South Pacific.
The whole game of Survivor is about betrayal. If Brice didn't want to betray Morgan he shouldn't have signed up for the show.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong when you say the whole game of Survivor is about betrayal. It is mostly a social game. Let's just take Survivor Blood vs Water. Tyson played an absolutely brilliant game. He only betrayed someone once the entire game when he orchestrated the blindside of Aras. Other than that his game was entirely comprised of his social game.
[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;394749]I am sorry, but you are flat out wrong when you say the whole game of Survivor is about betrayal. It is mostly a social game. Let's just take Survivor Blood vs Water. Tyson played an absolutely brilliant game. He only betrayed someone once the entire game when he orchestrated the blindside of Aras. Other than that his game was entirely comprised of his social game.[/QUOTE]
All blind sides are betrayals so is all the lying about being on your side. Tyson also betrayed Ciera. Fabio and Natalie who won by just winning immunity or by riding the coattails of the bad guy. That is 2 out of 28 winners.
Also Brice just met Morgan it wasn't like he had this great friendship with her.
[QUOTE=asdasd9999;394690]Wrong strategy for the gay guy. I feel the gay guy strategy has already been written in stone in Survivor and Big Brother. You align with the girl alliance you make up crap about the guy alliance then get the girl alliance to vote a guy alliance member out. You emerge as the power player late in the game by taking out the head of the group or by slowly filling the role of leader of the group.
I feel the game has to be played this way for a gay guy, because I don't know one straight guy who has a gay male as their best friend. After 43 seasons of Survivor and Big Brother almost all the gay guys who have made it far in either game has used the strategy above. Todd, Kevin(BB), Andy(BB), and Marcellas (BB) who have used the strategy and the only gay guy to go far in either reality show who didn't use the strategy was Richard Hatch. The reason was because Hatch was on the first season ever so nobody had a clue about what to do.[/QUOTE]
Andy won Big Brother without using that strategy
If you play a great game it doesn't matter what gender you are, what sexual orientation you are or what race you are.
[QUOTE=asdasd9999;394797]All blind sides are betrayals so is all the lying about being on your side. Tyson also betrayed Ciera. Fabio and Natalie who won by just winning immunity or by riding the coattails of the bad guy. That is 2 out of 28 winners.
Also Brice just met Morgan it wasn't like he had this great friendship with her.[/QUOTE]
Tyson never betrayed Ciera. Ciera betrayed Tyson. She was in no way blindsided.
Monica probably made more moves than Tyson in the game as she flipped on Aras, flipped on Kat, and flipped on Laura B. Tyson only flipped on Aras. The difference between the 2 was their social game. Monica would have had a hard time winning with her social game. If you listen to the RHAP episode that has Candice and John on it, they mention that there was no way that Monica or Brad would win with their social games.
Go back to Survivor Carmoan. Dawn was more important with regards to getting her and Cochran to the end, but Cochran's social game was miles ahead of her's, so he won unanimously.
Survivor Philippines, Denise didn't really betray anyone. She just had a marvelous social game and survived every Tribal.
Survivor One World, Kim had a fantastic social and strategic game. An example of betraying people working
Survivor South Pacific, Coach dominated that game strategically from start to finish, but his lack of a social game (or him being delusional, whichever you prefer) cost him the game.
Survivor Redemption Island, another example of betraying people working. Rob has a great social game though
You already mentioned Season 21 of a bad player winning
Season 20, Sandra won because of the Heroes being bitter and her expressing hatred toward Russell. She didn't do anything strategically that deserved to win other than not be hated like Parv and Russell
Season 19, you already mentioned
Season 18: 2 great players, but J.T's social game allowed him to win even though Stephen was probably better strategically
Season 17: Bob had absolutely no strategy. He just went on an immunity run and went up against Sugar and Susie. Susie actually got 4 votes despite not doing anything strategically and being dubbed annoying by everyone who played with her. Sugar betrayed the most people, but her social game was god awful.
That is 11 seasons, and most of the winners won because of their social game.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;394805]Andy won Big Brother without using that strategy
If you play a great game it doesn't matter what gender you are, what sexual orientation you are or what race you are.[/QUOTE]
That was 100% Andy game was teaming up with the girl alliance. In the beginning then he emerged as the leader. Andy's main alliance was Candice, Elissa, Jessie, Gina Marie(don't know how they aligned at the beginning but Andy said that), Helen, McCrae, and Amanda. He let Amanda control the game until late in the game. Then took over as the leader of the game when there was 7 people left. Not only that Andy took Gina Marie over Spencer who would have gotten 0 winning votes even though Spencer had his back for most of his game. Andy said he took Gina Marie because they were better friends and were aligned since the beginning even though she tried to get him out when it was Aaryn and himself on the block.
[QUOTE=TheFeedMachi;394809]Tyson never betrayed Ciera. Ciera betrayed Tyson. She was in no way blindsided.
Monica probably made more moves than Tyson in the game as she flipped on Aras, flipped on Kat, and flipped on Laura B. Tyson only flipped on Aras. The difference between the 2 was their social game. Monica would have had a hard time winning with her social game. If you listen to the RHAP episode that has Candice and John on it, they mention that there was no way that Monica or Brad would win with their social games.
Go back to Survivor Carmoan. Dawn was more important with regards to getting her and Cochran to the end, but Cochran's social game was miles ahead of her's, so he won unanimously.
Survivor Philippines, Denise didn't really betray anyone. She just had a marvelous social game and survived every Tribal.
Survivor One World, Kim had a fantastic social and strategic game. An example of betraying people working
Survivor South Pacific, Coach dominated that game strategically from start to finish, but his lack of a social game (or him being delusional, whichever you prefer) cost him the game.
Survivor Redemption Island, another example of betraying people working. Rob has a great social game though
You already mentioned Season 21 of a bad player winning
Season 20, Sandra won because of the Heroes being bitter and her expressing hatred toward Russell. She didn't do anything strategically that deserved to win other than not be hated like Parv and Russell
Season 19, you already mentioned
Season 18: 2 great players, but J.T's social game allowed him to win even though Stephen was probably better strategically
Season 17: Bob had absolutely no strategy. He just went on an immunity run and went up against Sugar and Susie. Susie actually got 4 votes despite not doing anything strategically and being dubbed annoying by everyone who played with her. Sugar betrayed the most people, but her social game was god awful.
That is 11 seasons, and most of the winners won because of their social game.[/QUOTE]
Tyson betrayed Ciera by lying to her that she was going to be in the final 3. Clearly that was a lie and Ciera switched sides. Denise made multiple alliances and backstabbed them including Russell. Sandra's original season she betrayed a lot of people. J.T. betrayed a lot of people that was what the whole final tribal council was about. Bob kept lying, but no one bought it except Susie.
Saying someone had a good social game doesn't mean they didn't betray people to get them there.
[QUOTE=asdasd9999;394816]That was 100% Andy game was teaming up with the girl alliance. In the beginning then he emerged as the leader. Andy's main alliance was Candice, Elissa, Jessie, Gina Marie(don't know how they aligned at the beginning but Andy said that), Helen, McCrae, and Amanda. He let Amanda control the game until late in the game. Then took over as the leader of the game when there was 7 people left. Not only that Andy took Gina Marie over Spencer who would have gotten 0 winning votes even though Spencer had his back for most of his game. Andy said he took Gina Marie because they were better friends and were aligned since the beginning even though she tried to get him out when it was Aaryn and himself on the block.[/QUOTE]
His strategy was 100% floating. He didn't have any true allies until Nick was blindsided and he went with Amanda, McCrae, etc. He was loyal to this two and Aaryn and then went with the Exterminators. You can't say he won or got far because of teaming up with the girls 100% when he alligned with guys as well (McCrae, Judd, Spencer) and floated for the earlier part of the game.
This is 100% off-topic with Survivor, let alone the episode so I'll likely end it here.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;394826]His strategy was 100% floating. He didn't have any true allies until Nick was blindsided and he went with Amanda, McCrae, etc. He was loyal to this two and Aaryn and then went with the Exterminators. You can't say he won or got far because of teaming up with the girls 100% when he alligned with guys as well (McCrae, Judd, Spencer) and floated for the earlier part of the game.
This is 100% off-topic with Survivor, let alone the episode so I'll likely end it here.[/QUOTE]
Andy never aligned with Judd he just lied to him about having an alliance and got him out both times. Once by telling a lie. Already said he aligned with McCrae, but it was a all girl alliance besides McCrae and himself. Spencer never had an alliance or any strategy. He used to just go up on the block and appease everyone. Andy strategy is what I said it was.
[QUOTE=asdasd9999;394833]Andy never aligned with Judd he just lied to him about having an alliance and got him out both times. Once by telling a lie. Already said he aligned with McCrae, but it was a all girl alliance besides McCrae and himself. Spencer never had an alliance or any strategy. He used to just go up on the block and appease everyone. Andy strategy is what I said it was.[/QUOTE]
Andy's strategy was 100% floating, not aligning with just females, but whoever had power. Forming an alliance with Judd means they were allies.
[QUOTE=Fresh Meat;394835]Andy's strategy was 100% floating, not aligning with just females, but whoever had power. Forming an alliance with Judd means they were allies.[/QUOTE]
That is the whole point of Big Brother. You have to align with the power otherwise you and your allies will go on the block. Everyone from Will, Dan, to Evel **** said they were in an alliance with someone in Head of Household or Veto position so they could be saved even though they weren't in an alliance.
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