The Challenge Series: RW/RR (Generic Thread)

I don't get why you guys hate on JEK. The reason they are the main guys on the show is because not only do they have a personality but they win. Really, imagine even like Fresh Meat 2 without Kenny...would have been boring. They have to bring back these guys or you will have a show filled with people like Luke and Tyrie, lol.

[QUOTE=jon12;252015]I don't get why you guys hate on JEK. The reason they are the main guys on the show is because not only do they have a personality but they win. [B]Really, imagine even like Fresh Meat 2 without Kenny...would have been boring.[/B] They have to bring back these guys or you will have a show filled with people like Luke and Tyrie, lol.[/QUOTE] Fresh Meat II was already boring. As a matter of fact, I've been watching challenges since The Gauntlet, and Fresh Meat II is most boring challenge I've watched. Thats my opinion of coarse.

[QUOTE=GiggidyGoo90;252018]I really like this Rivals concept mainly because of the Wes and Kenny team cuz we all know how much these 2 hate eachother and to see them work together as a team will be cool especially in The Jungle[/QUOTE] Wes and Kenny don't hate each other. They "hate" each other. See what I'm saying?

[QUOTE=jon12;252015]I don't get why you guys hate on JEK. The reason they are the main guys on the show is because not only do they have a personality but they win. Really, imagine even like Fresh Meat 2 without Kenny...would have been boring. They have to bring back these guys or you will have a show filled with people like Luke and Tyrie, lol.[/QUOTE] For some reasons I think Fresh meat 2 would have been much better without Kenny.

If JEK have to be on a challenge together, I would like to see JEK on a cuthtroat style format, each on a different team. THey would still have alliance to avoid elimination, but in the end they would be on different teams working with different people. That way they all can't just coast due to a huge alliance and all three couldn't win together. I don't even mind them winning, I just don't consider them the best performers individually. But as far as a social game, they play a great game. Winning is easier with a huge alliance no matter what unless the rules can somehow throw a wrench into it. All three are good people to have on a final mission team though. CT/Paula/Adam/ Robin(i think Robin was on G3 final) may not have a technical win, but G3 should count as a win if nothing else. Not only did they drag Eric, but they still somehow caught up and finished before the other team who had less people. Than on Cutthroat somehow you can leave medically and finish, they just make up rules as they go it feels like sometimes to screw over people. Kind of like Johnny felt they threw CT in on Cutthroat just to go against him and CT was going to be brought in to face Johnny no matter when he went in.

[QUOTE=jon12;252015]i dont get why you guys hate on JEK.... the reason they are the main guys on the show is because not only do they have a personality but they win..... really imagine even like fresh meat 2 without kenny.... would have been boring. they have to bring back these guys or you will have a show filled with people like luke and tyrie lol[/QUOTE] The show isn't interesting if the same people keep winning every time. If they only won once in their challenge career people would mind seeing them again. Personally, I don't mind Jenn returning every single time because she hasn't won. If she won 3 challenge and kept returning I would be annoyed as hell. Besides Fresh Meat II was an epic fail. Some episodes barely reached 1.1 million. To me, the only interesting thing about FM2 was Noor, Pete and Jillian's return. The whole Wes v Kenny storyline was lame and the challenges were lackluster. 10 out of 13 alumni where just on Duel 2 or The Ruins so nothing good was coming from that because we all aren't counting on The Fresh Meat to bring anything to the table.

[QUOTE=Clarke;252027]The show isn't interesting if the same people keep winning every time. If they only won once in their challenge career people would mind seeing them again. Personally, I don't mind Jenn returning every single time because she hasn't won. If she won 3 challenge and kept returning I would be annoyed as hell. Besides Fresh Meat II was an epic fail. Some episodes barely reached 1.1 million. To me, the only interesting thing about FM2 was Noor, Pete and Jillian's return. The whole Wes v Kenny storyline was lame and the challenges were lackluster. 10 out of 13 alumni where just on Duel 2 or The Ruins so nothing good was coming from that because we all aren't counting on The Fresh Meat to bring anything to the table.[/QUOTE] What do you mean by Noor and Pete's return?

[QUOTE=Clarke;252027]The show isn't interesting if the same people keep winning every time. If they only won once in their challenge career people would mind seeing them again. Personally, I don't mind Jenn returning every single time because she hasn't won. If she won 3 challenge and kept returning I would be annoyed as hell. Besides Fresh Meat II was an epic fail. Some episodes barely reached 1.1 million. To me, [B]the only interesting thing about FM2 was Noor[/B], Pete and Jillian's return. The whole Wes v Kenny storyline was lame and the challenges were lackluster. 10 out of 13 alumni where just on Duel 2 or The Ruins so nothing good was coming from that because we all aren't counting on The Fresh Meat to bring anything to the table.[/QUOTE] I don't see how you thought Noor, was interesting. He was one of the most boring Fresh Meat on that challenge. Are you saying that the last challenge 10 of the 13 alumni were on was the Duel 2 or the Ruins?

[QUOTE=challenge;252032]what do you mean by noor and pete's return?[/QUOTE] Translastion: Interesting things about Fresh Meat II: 1. Noor 2. Pete 3. Jillian's return. They wasn't applying "return" to all three people.

[QUOTE=jojorules;252026]If JEK have to be on a challenge together, I would like to see JEK on a cuthtroat style format, each on a different team. THey would still have alliance to avoid elimination, but in the end they would be on different teams working with different people. That way they all can't just coast due to a huge alliance and all three couldn't win together. I don't even mind them winning, I just don't consider them the best performers individually. But as far as a social game, they play a great game. Winning is easier with a huge alliance no matter what unless the rules can somehow throw a wrench into it. All three are good people to have on a final mission team though. CT/Paula/Adam/ Robin(i think Robin was on G3 final) may not have a technical win, but G3 should count as a win if nothing else. Not only did they drag Eric, but they still somehow caught up and finished before the other team who had less people. Than on Cutthroat somehow you can leave medically and finish, they just make up rules as they go it feels like sometimes to screw over people. Kind of like Johnny felt they threw CT in on Cutthroat just to go against him and CT was going to be brought in to face Johnny no matter when he went in.[/QUOTE] I don't agree with that because the G3 final was sponsored by the US Army and the motto for the US Army is "No Man Left Behind". TJ clearly states that in the beginning of the final. In the Cutthroat final, TJ never said if anybody gets left behind, their team gets DQ'd. So I don't believe they made up the rules as they go, they were just two different final challenges. And as for the Johnny vs CT gulag, I think CT was going into the 7th gulag no matter who he was going against. If MTV really wanted CT to kill Johnny, they would have played handcuffs.

[QUOTE=GiggidyGoo90;252035]I don't agree with that because the G3 final was sponsored by the US Army and the motto for the US Army is "No Man Left Behind". TJ clearly states that in the beginning of the final. In the Cutthroat final, TJ never said if anybody gets left behind, their team gets DQ'd. So I don't believe they made up the rules as they go, they were just two different final challenges. And as for the Johnny vs CT gulag, I think CT was going into the 7th gulag no matter who he was going against. If MTV really wanted CT to kill Johnny, they would have played handcuffs.[/QUOTE] Yes, everyone needed to finish. But there is a difference between if he was out of shape and just gave up, and being medically unable to go. Since he was medically unable to go the whole final is ruined anyway, why even make them continue the challenge if they couldn't win? I mean being out of shape goes hand in hand with him passing out, but still if you are carried out on a stretcher, they should have just let them continue. It isn't like on one of the infernos where Tonya/Tina just kept stopping and just were clearly not in running shape and Veronica was yelling at them for hyping themselves up all challenge. He medically was not able to continue. The Johnny thing was just what he said on the podcast how he feels there is definatley mid challenge "meddling" by producers to get the result they want. Just his theory, not saying i necessarily agree but they did have prior beef so who knows. Look at the result too, it was better than anyone could have imagined for ratings and the show.

[QUOTE=Clarke;252027]The show isn't interesting if the same people keep winning every time. If they only won once in their challenge career people would mind seeing them again. Personally, I don't mind Jenn returning every single time because she hasn't won. If she won 3 challenge and kept returning I would be annoyed as hell. Besides Fresh Meat II was an epic fail. Some episodes barely reached 1.1 million. To me, the only interesting thing about FM2 was Noor, Pete and Jillian's return. The whole Wes v Kenny storyline was lame and the challenges were lackluster. 10 out of 13 alumni where just on Duel 2 or The Ruins so nothing good was coming from that because we all aren't counting on The Fresh Meat to bring anything to the table.[/QUOTE] I agreem the shows are better when new people win. That's why The Duel 1 was the most watched Challenge season because you saw a lot of new people win challenges and even the final had new people like Brad (who made it far in his first 3 challenges but never been in a final), Wes (even though he was in the Fresh Meat final), Jodi ( was in the G2 Final and won), and Svetlana (who was a rookie just coming off Key West). We also saw really interesting Duel matchups, unlike today where you see the big dogs rarely go in elimination, and even if they do it's against scrubs. Most of the time on the challenges, the lower ranked players go against each other, so there aren't really interesting matchups. But in the Duel 1, you had Wes vs Derrick, Johnny vs Tyler, Brad vs Eric and CT, CT vs Evan, and Kenny vs Nehemiah...those are matchups we never see anymore.

They were in 3 challenges together and only won once which was the Ruins, so it's not like they kill it every time. If anything, Derrick has won more with them...so they don't always come into the game with numbers. On the Island, it was Johnny and Kenny. They went there and got people on their side. On the Ruins, their alliance didn't have to do too much when it came to the guys, only the one time they threw in Syrus. But besides that they usually don't have as much as you think. I'm not saying Fresh Meat was great, I'm just saying Kenny went in there by himself and basically took down Wes by winning...he had one team on his side (Pete and Jill) and eventually won over Jenn and Ryan because they had no other choice. So if you look back, they haven't been too dominant when it's all 3 of them and it should be JEKD because Derrick is a big part of their alliance.

[QUOTE=El Scorcho;252033]I don't see how you thought Noor, was interesting. He was one of the most boring Fresh Meat on that challenge. [/QUOTE] But he was a good competitor, and it would be fun (in my opinion atleast) to see him compete on another challenge. The challenges need some good guys to kick off the people that are currently winning most challenges (JEK for example)

[QUOTE=jon12;252049]They were in 3 challenges together and only won once which was the Ruins, so it's not like they kill it every time. If anything, Derrick has won more with them...so they don't always come into the game with numbers. On the Island, it was Johnny and Kenny. They went there and got people on their side. On the Ruins, their alliance didn't have to do too much when it came to the guys, only the one time they threw in Syrus. But besides that they usually don't have as much as you think. I'm not saying Fresh Meat was great, I'm just saying Kenny went in there by himself and basically took down Wes by winning...he had one team on his side (Pete and Jill) and eventually won over Jenn and Ryan because they had no other choice. So if you look back, they haven't been too dominant when it's all 3 of them and it should be JEKD because Derrick is a big part of their alliance.[/QUOTE] If you look at the history starting with Fresh Meat, at least one of their members have been in the finals every time excluding The Duel and luckily Cutthroat. Fresh Meat: Kenny The Duel: N/A (We lucked up, the winner's were interesting.) The Inferno 3: [B]Kenny[/B] and Johnny The Gauntlet III: Evan and Kenny The Island: [B]Johnny[/B] and [B]Kenny[/B] The Duel 2: [B]Evan[/B] The Ruins: [B]Even[/B], [B]Johnny[/B] and [B]Kenny[/B] Fresh Meat 2: Kenny Cutthroat: N/A (Interesting group of winners. 3 first time winners.) [SPOILER]Rivals: [B]Johnny[/B][/SPOILER] If you're a JEK fan that's fine but it seems like you're pleading their cases. All I'm saying is for other people that watch the show it becomes boring to see the same three people in the finals multiple times. There is no surprise element to the show, and if you want to go further into this topic it's boring to see at least one of those 3 in every single challenge to date starting with Fresh Meat.

[QUOTE=El Scorcho;252033]I don't see how you thought Noor, was interesting. He was one of the most boring Fresh Meat on that challenge. Are you saying that the last challenge 10 of the 13 alumni were on was the Duel 2 or the Ruins?[/QUOTE] Yes. During Fresh Meat 2, 10 of the 13 alumni have just recently competed in either The Duel 2 or The Ruins. CJ, Katelynn and Jillian were the only three who had not recently competed in either challenge.

[QUOTE=jojorules;252038]Yes, everyone needed to finish. But there is a difference between if he was out of shape and just gave up, and being medically unable to go. Since he was medically unable to go the whole final is ruined anyway, why even make them continue the challenge if they couldn't win? I mean being out of shape goes hand in hand with him passing out, but still if you are carried out on a stretcher, they should have just let them continue. It isn't like on one of the infernos where Tonya/Tina just kept stopping and just were clearly not in running shape and Veronica was yelling at them for hyping themselves up all challenge. He medically was not able to continue. The Johnny thing was just what he said on the podcast how he feels there is definatley mid challenge "meddling" by producers to get the result they want. Just his theory, not saying i necessarily agree but they did have prior beef so who knows. Look at the result too, it was better than anyone could have imagined for ratings and the show.[/QUOTE] The thing we didn't see mostly was that they actually were carrying Eric towards the end too. Apparently, the producers stopped them and forced them to give Eric up since he was unable to quit. Then TJ gave that BS "You can't leave someone behind" speech, just showing how dumb it was. I think it's clear to me that they only put that in place since they knew that the Rookies had no chance of winning the final based on what it was so they added this stipulation to give them a slight chance.

Agreed Nighwolf. A few people got screwed out of their first challenge win due to that. Letting them continue after Eric went to hospital was what made the end ruling BS to me. That and being a serious medical issue not just a cramp makes me think it was BS as well. Cutthroat it was like no big deal Abe leaves on stretcher, continue on! Rookies had no shot and they referenced before final several times Eric not being able to finish and Johnny even mentioned it before his elimination. That could have been a last minute rule added since Eric beat Johnny to even the field. Who knows?

Tj made is clear from the beginning of the final mission though. He said no man was allowed left behind. I thought they made that rule due to the whole "army strong" sponsoring they were getting that season.

I assume that means like if someone is doing terribly you can't leave them(inferno mission i used earlier with Tonya/Tina not being able to run because out shape), not if they are carried on a stretcher. You would assume there might be stipulations. Especially all being chained together and apparantly they tried to carry him another poster said and they woudln't allow it. So they still tried and were not allowed to continue. Once Eric was gone why not tell them they are dq'ed instead of making them think they could still win? Just seemed poorly constructed is my point. Army strong or not, I feel they were robbed. The other team in no way was better or deserved it more. A lot of people blame CT for not calling out Eric, but it shouldn't have been his sole responisbility and it's hard to predict what the final will be. If he knew that would happen, of course he would have tried, but a lot of those eliminations favored the heavy guy. He had a sure spot in finals, he was doing great in challenges, why should he have to go in at the end unless voted? None of the big guys would have risked their spot at that point unless voted in IMO.

I like what they did in Inferno 1 when Coral got bit by the spider...they just added 10 min to their time. That's good because lets say someone like Casey made it to the finals, she fakes an injury and sits out without a penalty, they finish faster and she still gets money. So I think a 10 min penalty is fair.

[QUOTE=jon12;252137]I like what they did in Inferno 1 when Coral got bit by the spider...they just added 10 min to their time. That's good because lets say someone like Casey made it to the finals, she fakes an injury and sits out without a penalty, they finish faster and she still gets money. So I think a 10 min penalty is fair.[/QUOTE] The Gauntlet.

[QUOTE=Skeet;252054]But he was a good competitor, and it would be fun (in my opinion atleast) to see him compete on another challenge. The challenges need some good guys to kick off the people that are currently winning most challenges (JEK for example)[/QUOTE] So? Chanda and Aviv were pretty good players also, but they were boring and had no personality. And even if Noor did do another challenge, he wouldn't stand a chance against any of Johnny, Evan, or Kenny. I think the only elimination rounds he'd stand a chance against them in would be Spool (The Ruins) and Capture the Flag (The Gauntlet 2). And puzzles of coarse are the great equalizer.

[QUOTE=El Scorcho;252145]So? Chanda and Aviv were pretty good players also, but they were boring and had no personality. [B]And even if Noor did do another challenge, he wouldn't stand a chance against any of Johnny, Evan, or Kenny.[/B] I think the only elimination rounds he'd stand a chance against them in would be Spool (The Ruins) and Capture the Flag (The Gauntlet 2). And puzzles of coarse are the great equalizer.[/QUOTE] Noor hasn't even been into a one on one elimination before so how would you know that? Let me guess, you're basing it on size. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. That goes for any player that hasn't even had the chance to prove themselves.

[QUOTE=Raymond21;252150]Noor hasn't even been into a one on one elimination before so how would you know that? Let me guess, you're basing it on size. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. That goes for any player that hasn't even had the chance to prove themselves.[/QUOTE] I agree 100%, it's hard to determine what these people can do especially if we haven't seen it. I think "we" spend to much time worrying about the physical attributes of the competitors.

[QUOTE=Clarke;252158]I agree 100%, it's hard to determine what these people can do especially if we haven't seen it. I think "we" spend to much time worrying about the physical attributes of the competitors.[/QUOTE] Why is this debate even going on, Guin Guin will school everyone on this show.

[QUOTE=Clarke;252158]I agree 100%, it's hard to determine what these people can do especially if we haven't seen it. I think "we" spend to much time worrying about the physical attributes of the competitors.[/QUOTE] Most of the debates on this site go in circles, like a chicken with it's head cut off. I rather not.... Unless I have evidence or proof to back up my claims.

[QUOTE=jojorules;252115] A lot of people blame CT for not calling out Eric, but it shouldn't have been his sole responisbility and it's hard to predict what the final will be. If he knew that would happen, of course he would have tried, but a lot of those eliminations favored the heavy guy. He had a sure spot in finals, he was doing great in challenges, why should he have to go in at the end unless voted? None of the big guys would have risked their spot at that point unless voted in IMO.[/QUOTE] How was CT able to call him out? Should they have thrown the mission to be able to get a male gauntlet and vote Eric in? Then the rookies could still pick a guy to go against him that would be easy to beat. Their only chance to get big easy in was against Evan but instead they threw in johnny to keep Evan safe. And even if they had thrown guys gauntlet days they'd have to throw 2 because Adam was protected by the rookies in gauntlet against evan, so they first 1 they'd throw the rookies could safe eric and then the next 1 that they throw they have to hope the rookies put someone in who can beat eric. So basically they'd have to sacrifice 1 male to only have a small chance of getting eric out. [QUOTE=Nightwolf;252095]The thing we didn't see mostly was that they actually were carrying Eric towards the end too. Apparently, the producers stopped them and forced them to give Eric up since he was unable to quit. Then TJ gave that BS "You can't leave someone behind" speech, just showing how dumb it was. I think it's clear to me that they only put that in place since they knew that the Rookies had no chance of winning the final based on what it was so they added this stipulation to give them a slight chance.[/QUOTE] According to MTV 'Army strong moment of the year' [URL=http://www.mtv.com/videos/misc/219194/reverse-piggy-back.jhtml#series=2215&seriesId=24454&channelId=1&id=1584191]Evan carries Eric by himself[/URL] If he could do that himself, they must've been able to carry him with brad/kenny/evan/CT all together, each take an arm/leg and left him up. So the vets really got screwed. [QUOTE=El Scorcho;252145]So? Chanda and Aviv were pretty good players also, but they were boring and had no personality. And even if Noor did do another challenge, he wouldn't stand a chance against any of Johnny, Evan, or Kenny. I think the only elimination rounds he'd stand a chance against them in would be Spool (The Ruins) and Capture the Flag (The Gauntlet 2). And puzzles of coarse are the great equalizer.[/QUOTE] Next quote says it all [QUOTE=Raymond21;252150]Noor hasn't even been into a one on one elimination before so how would you know that? Let me guess, you're basing it on size. I wouldn't be so quick to judge. That goes for any player that hasn't even had the chance to prove themselves.[/QUOTE] Just look at derrick, he's a pretty small guy compared to most other guys but he's still tough as hell.

[QUOTE=Skeet;252171]How was CT able to call him out? Should they have thrown the mission to be able to get a male gauntlet and vote Eric in? Then the rookies could still pick a guy to go against him that would be easy to beat. Their only chance to get big easy in was against Evan but instead they threw in johnny to keep Evan safe. And even if they had thrown guys gauntlet days they'd have to throw 2 because Adam was protected by the rookies in gauntlet against evan, so they first 1 they'd throw the rookies could safe eric and then the next 1 that they throw they have to hope the rookies put someone in who can beat eric. So basically they'd have to sacrifice 1 male to only have a small chance of getting eric out.[/QUOTE] SKeet, just to clarify that was my point as well, i agree with that. They blamed CT for not calling him out sooner i guess but why is that his responsibility? The girls on the reunion blamed the guys for not voting him in because no one wanted to go up against him. But the way the eliminatins were set up, and the main guys having secured final spots, there was really no way besides the very end. But they voted in Johnny. The thing is if any of the female vets were in the same situation, none of them would have volunteered with a place in final at stake. The girls though were a little crazy on that team though IMO. Obviously looking back they should have voted in Eric not Johnny at the end, but they still got screwed. There is no way to know a guy will need to be carried on a stretcher, if he just was a bad runner and it wasn't heatstroke, they could have just carried him, they already were trying to. They still probably would have won. They let them finish thinking they could still win, and they tried to carry him but were not allowed to continue. This was an all or nothing challenge to wasn't it, did the Vets get any money? That would have been Robins,CT,Adam, Brad, Diem and Paula's first win i believe. If i remember the cast correctly. Ct has lost 2 challenge finals now because of Eric medically and Tina/Tonya not being able to run at all on Inferno 2(i think) The one where Veronica is berating them as they are attempting to run. That whole G3 was poorly set up. If anything the Vets were punished for winning every single elimination when all the money is at the end. That way the other team has a smaller team and better odds. All the money is at the end anyway, why would you want to keep a large team. But what are you going to do when the Vet team was that much better than the Rookies? They were punished really for being so dominant. I thought the whole set up of that game was flawed.

The G3 Vets were the best Challenge team MTV ever assembled except for Eric and Casey. If they guys were not so scared about going into the Gauntlet with Eric we would'nt be having this conversation, I mean I know how big Eric is and all but 1 Gauntlet was a physical, I believe if they put CT or Evan against him they could of sent him home and won the final. As a matter of fact they had their opportunity to put Eric against Evan, but they decided to send Johnny instead because they were scared of losing Evan. But with Evan's size he could of wore Big E in any of the physical Gauntlets and if they did the 1 puzzle Gauntlet Evan still would of won.