[QUOTE=llcooljonas;224842]Considering she was an athlete and roid use is taken VERY seriously on any campus in the country, it's not that dumb of a suggestion for her to get legal counsel, considering allegations like that COULD have led to an investigation and greatly affected her college career, if he'd said something at the time. Even now, that's considered defamation of character and slander.
Also, women have taken roids and not blown up like dudes. It depends on how you work out, which muscle groups you're pushing the hardest when you train and that has a factor in it, too. I doubt she did use them, because her temper would have been MUCH worse but people do take them for more than body building, including endurance and speed.[/QUOTE]
She would have to prove it was not true, prove that she suffered specific harm, and that she suffered quantifiable loss as a result of the lie. It is almost impossible to do, especially for a public figure and considering things like speculations, implications and opinions do not count as a lie. COULD HAVE gets you nowhere.
[QUOTE=SPK713;224782]Is he really talking **** about the Miz?
"He does enough to be a small part, but he is nowhere near the caliber of WWE Champion"
"He must've made friends with somebody"
"When I look at the Miz, I am way better than him."
Okay Dan, okay...[/QUOTE]
I thought Dan had some interesting insights and opinions, but his conclusions were conflicted--he admitted that several times in the interview. I am no wrestling fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I did not see his comments as attacking Miz as a person so much as questioning the way in which he ended up where he is today, including holding the championship title. A lot of it seemed to really more play off Derrick's commentary moreso than any agenda Dan was trying to work IMO.
This is actually in reference to the video on [URL="http://vevmo.com/f187/cut-throat-abram-boise-5203/index2.html#post224855"]this post[/URL]. Early on, Jenn said that they were told not to touch the rope with their hands, but Abram did and yet didn't get DQ'ed. Evelyn spoke of something like this before on FM2, in which they were told rules that the first few teams had to follow, but production didn't enforce them for the other teams and so made it easier for them to finish.
uhhh...***? That's really screwed up that rules can be selectively applied.
Here's Lori's website with all the posts about BOTSexes 1 (and B2NY), for anyone who's interested:
[url=http://www.everythinglori.com/v2/shows.htm]everythinglori.com[/url]
[QUOTE=Goo Punch;224821]Are you saying Evelyn could sue Abe because he accused her of taking roids? [B][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="5"]That's ridiculous[/SIZE][/FONT][/B]. I know people try and sue each other over the dumbest things these days and California (along with Texas) is basically its own country, but that would be [B][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="6"]downright ludicrous[/SIZE][/FONT][/B]. I'm sure a judge would throw that case out with a huge smirk across his face.[/QUOTE]
You're a rookie here so I'll cut you some slack since you know nothing of my background...
I don't comment on legal matters unless there is very substantial foundation. I am very aware of case law on this subject in California where Eve resides and Abe is about to become a resident, according to Cara Maria's postings on Facebook.
The California statue is very clear, to wit:
[I]"California Code of Civil Procedure Section 45: Definition of Libel
45. Libel is a false and unprivileged publication by writing, printing, picture, effigy, or other fixed representation to the eye, which exposes any person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or obloquy, or which causes him to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him in his occupation."[/I]
Clearly Abe's statement would seem to meet the test of the statue. Thus only three questions are really at issue; 1) Was the statement an opinion or does it appear to presuppose some specific knowledge on his part of performance enhancing steroids: 2) Is Eve a "public figure, the finding of which shifts the burden of proof requirement to either the plaintiff or the defendant;" and, 3) Can she satisfactorily demonstrate damage to her reputation?
With regard to #1 above (the "offending act"), the U.S. Supreme Court has clearly articulated some standards to assist in determining whether a statement is intended to convey an actual fact about a person, or not:
"(1) is the language loose, figurative, or hyperbolic, which would negate the impression that the speaker was seriously maintaining the truth of the underlying facts?
(2) Does the general tenor of the article negate the impression that the speaker was seriously maintaining the truth of the underlying fact? and
(3) is the connotation sufficiently factual to be susceptible of being proved true or false." [The standards applied in Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co., 497 U.S. 1 (1990)]
With regard to #2 above ("public figure"), there are interesting arguments on both sides (but I have not intention of aiding his attorney by suggesting a useful defense beyond the textbook ones that bore judges). [(Stolz v. KSFM 102 FM (1994) 30 Cal.App.4th 195, 203–204 [35 Cal.Rptr.2d 740] and Nizam-Aldine v. City of Oakland, 47 Cal. App. 4th 364 (Cal. Ct. App. 1996)]
With regard to #3 above ("harm), if Eve is found to be a public figure by the court, then she must prove Abe's statements to be false. I believe she has several ready tools to do this. Further, if she is found not to be a public figure, then Abe must prove the truth of his statement and Eve need produce no evidence to support her position. [Stolz, supra, 30 Cal.App.4th at p. 202. and (Savage v. Pacific Gas & Electric Co. (1993) 21 Cal.App.4th 434, 445 [26 Cal.Rptr.2d 305], quoting Dun & Bradstreet, Inc. v. Greenmoss Builders, Inc. (1985) 472 U.S. 749, 760 [105 S.Ct. 2939, 86 L.Ed.2d 593)]
Perhaps Abe's motivation in making his statement was to create an environment in which other cast members would question or doubt her in a way which could reduce her chances of competing fairly for a prize or prizes, while enhancing his own opportunities. If so, then there are other potential legal issues at stake. The demonstration of "harm" could easily include the use of commentary added from vevmo.com.
Of course, a simple, "I didn't really mean it" would probably make the issues disappear. That would be the smart thing for Abe, in my opinion, because they are both worthy competitors.
It wasn't my intention to school you here, Goo Punch, but when you insult any member of this board with the suggestion that his views are "ridiculous" and "ludicrous," then this is what you get, at least it is what you get from me.
Thanks for posting Lori's blog! I hadn't read it yet. She's so funny! This was one of the funniest things I've read in a long time:
"Laterrian...okay, enough is enough. Go home and get some sleep. Let's talk about this side story on the psychopath Laterrian who has now been awake for like 478 hours, and does that ******* "HooRah," thing every minute and a half. Though Colin at [url=http://www.Colinsworld.com]colinsworld.com - colins world Resources and Information. This website is for sale![/url] will most likely describe this part MUCH better than I can since he was there and I heard this story secondhand, I will attempt anyway. So, crazy LT was all into his goodbye speech to the camera. Some **** about them being warriors, yadda, yadda, yadda, and he is asked by the director what he plans to do when he gets home. Freakshow responds, "I'm going to get in my car, and I'm gonna drive, I'm gonna DRIVE, I'm GONNA DRIVE, until I run out of GAS, and WHEN I RUN OUT OF GAS...I'm gonna sit there." What??? What the **** does that mean? Apparently, these guys cracked up. It's obvious that they were expecting him to maybe say something like after he runs out of gas, he's gonna walk, or run, or SOMETHING! Something about him being unstoppable, maybe? But no, he's gonna sit there.
So, when you get voted off, you have to leave the resort at which point you are put into a hotel, and taken to the airport the next morning for the next flight to your home. However, I think LT did not get the sleep he needed once he was voted off, and the boy missed his flight because he ran away. Yes, Laterrian was missing for...I don't know how long, but the crazy boy got crazier, and vanished into the depths of Jamaica. I think he was found wondering the streets before BMP picked him up and probably escorted the guy directly into his seat on the plane."
[QUOTE=Blamo;224685]Evelyn responded to Abram's steroid accusation in her blog.
[url=http://www.myspace.com/evsmyspace/blog/540829325]MySpace - Evelyn - 23 - Female - San Diego, California - myspace.com/evsmyspace[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;224686]Yeah, I was the one who told her about it. I felt bad, but I figured it was better that she found out on her terms than when some random person threw it at her and caught her off guard.[/QUOTE]
I'm personally not a big fan of Ev because I don't like her temper. I can't deny she's a good competitor also, but I have to say, I think she approached and answered this situation VERY well. She dealt with it without seeming bitter or vengeful. This doesn't mean I like or love the girl, (I don't even like her attitude) but I respect this. I was actually surprised at how she handled it, more so, pleasantly surprised. I give props where it is due, and she handled it in a more mature way than Abe did or even than I expected her to.
[QUOTE=Superboy;224913]Is Ev really that strong?[/QUOTE]
Tell me how many dead weight (arms fully extended) pull ups any woman must do before she is considered strong and I'll give you the answer regarding Eve's strength.
[QUOTE=V1man;224914]Tell me how many dead weight (arms fully extended) pull ups any woman must do before she is considered strong and I'll give you the answer regarding Eve's strength.[/QUOTE]
Um...1?
[QUOTE=SeanDaniel;224860]She would have to prove it was not true, prove that she suffered specific harm, and that she suffered quantifiable loss as a result of the lie. It is almost impossible to do, especially for a public figure and considering things like speculations, implications and opinions do not count as a lie. COULD HAVE gets you nowhere.[/QUOTE]
A strand test can prove the use or non-use of any illegal substances and in order to prove mental or emotional distress, it would take something as simple as stating it, because in order to BRING ABOUT a CIVIL suit, you don't need more than an allegation now to get a lawyer. If she were thinking criminal, then she'd need to have something more than hearsay. It's not actually that hard to do, considering Tom Cruise did it. Many CIVIL suits that come from the entertainment industry come from rumors or something as trivial as a few sentences on the internet. Sadly, the legal system has lots and lots of holes and anyone can bring about a civil suit on the county level, as long as you're prepared to cover your attorney fees and court costs, if you lose. COULD HAVES have made people millions. It's stupid to even argue a "what if" when it's the internet.
[QUOTE=molds13;224922]Um...1?[/QUOTE]
I think I need to know from "Superboy." Anyone with a screen name like that must have special insight into the question, don't you think?
[QUOTE=Superboy;224913]Is Ev really that strong?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=V1man;224914]Tell me how many dead weight (arms fully extended) pull ups any woman must do before she is considered strong and I'll give you the answer regarding Eve's strength.[/QUOTE]
I like to think that Ev's pull ups would make Cara Maria's look like child's play.
[QUOTE=molds13;224922]Um...1?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=V1man;224933]I think I need to know from "Superboy." [B]Anyone with a screen name like that must have special insight into the question, don't you think?[/B][/QUOTE]
Hehehe. I wish I had special insight :(
[QUOTE=V1man;224875]You're a rookie here so I'll cut you some slack since you know nothing of my background...[/QUOTE]
That was something I'd raise a glass, too. Very well put.
[QUOTE=fabulous788;224934]I like to think that Ev's pull ups would make Cara Maria's look like child's play.[/QUOTE]
Cara Maria did chin-ups, not pull ups (actually, all the FM girls did chin-ups). Evelyn specifically said she was doing strict pull ups, not chin ups, so likely she wasn't kipping either. Chin ups are definitely easier than pull ups--I worked on pull-ups over the summer, and now I can do a couple of chin-ups but still can't do strict pull-ups.
What are some physical matchups you think would be interesting to see based on competitors similarities in size, strength, athleticism, overall performance, etc. and who do you think would win between the following:
Derrick vs. Abram (Derrick)
Wes vs. Brad (wash)
Darrell vs. Miz (Darrell)
Landon vs. Timmy (Landon)
CT vs. Mark (CT)
Luke vs Adam (Paris) (wash)
Theo vs. Jamie (wash)
Alton vs. Evan (Evan)
Some of these aren't necessarily dead even, but I think for the most part these guys match up pretty well between each other. Every one of these matchups would probably be close.
[QUOTE=Goo Punch;224952]What are some physical matchups you think would be interesting to see based on competitors similarities in size, strength, athleticism, overall performance, etc. and who do you think would win between the following:
Derrick vs. Abram (Derrick)
Wes vs. Brad (wash)
Darrell vs. Miz (Darrell)
Landon vs. Timmy (Landon)
CT vs. Mark (CT)
Luke vs Adam (Paris) (wash)
Theo vs. Jamie (wash)
Alton vs. Evan (Evan)
Some of these aren't necessarily dead even, but I think for the most part these guys match up pretty well between each other. Every one of these matchups would probably be close.[/QUOTE]
If it was a wrestling kind of elimination, I think Derrick would win, but Abram would definitely give him a serious run for his money. Anything else would definitely be close. Much as I don't like Wes, I think he would win against Brad. I don't think Darrell could beat the Miz, mainly because Darrell hasn't really had to do many eliminations and I think his elimination ability is overrated. I think Alton would win if it was an elimination involving climbing, i.e. Ascender from D1 or Spot On from D2. I would also love to see:
Evelyn vs. Rachel
Laurel vs. Tori
Ruthie vs. Jenn
Abram vs. Wes
Ty vs. Alton
[QUOTE=V1man;224914]Tell me how many dead weight (arms fully extended) pull ups any woman must do before she is considered strong and I'll give you the answer regarding Eve's strength.[/QUOTE]
15.
[QUOTE=V1man;224933]I think I need to know from "Superboy." Anyone with a screen name like that must have special insight into the question, don't you think?[/QUOTE]
Superboy is a legendary name...
[QUOTE=Superboy;224956]15.[/QUOTE]
When have you EVER seen a woman do 15 pullups? When have you ever seen a woman do more than 5? I'd like to know how many YOU can do.
[quote]Superboy is a legendary name......[/quote]Yes, but not for any of the right reasons...
[QUOTE]When have you EVER seen a woman do 15 pullups? When have you ever seen a woman do more than 5? I'd like to know how many YOU can do.
[/QUOTE]
Never, but he said how many do you think a women should be able to do for her to be considered very strong, and I said 15. But now that I think about it....arms fully extended a strong women should be able to do like 8. As for me, I don't know I don't do them.
[QUOTE]Yes, but not for any of the right reasons...[/QUOTE]
But still Legendary..... :victory:
Derrick > Abram in a physical wrestling type elimination. Every other type of physical elimination would be 50/50 but that's just my opinion. A lot of people could've beat Abram on Cutthroat in a Gulag... he was out of shape .... it looked to me.
[QUOTE=Superboy;224960]Never, but he said how many do you think a women should be able to do for her to be considered very strong, and I said 15. As for me, I don't know I don't do them, but i'm pretty sure I can do more than 15....:)[/QUOTE]
He said strong, not very strong. Go to the gym (it's that place with a bunch of machines and treadmills and heavy things) and see how many pull ups you can do, then get back to us as to what you consider "strong" to be.
Most people struggle with pull ups, females more so than males.
My suggestion to you: do some research before spouting off random numbers.
[QUOTE=molds13;224963]He said strong, not very strong. Go to the gym (it's that place with a bunch of machines and treadmills and heavy things) and see how many pull ups you can do, then get back to us as to what you consider "strong" to be.
Most people struggle with pull ups, females more so than males.
My suggestion to you: do some research before spouting off random numbers.[/QUOTE]
I thought about it and edited my post. I now believe 8 is the right number for a women to be considered strong.
8 pull ups? Really? When was the last time you saw a woman crank out 8 pull ups? Have you ever? Do you read the word "strong" and translate to "strongest"?
I really think your estimates are a tad ridiculous.
It also depends on the kind of pull-ups. Strict dead-hang pull ups? Kipping pull ups? Chin ups? If we're talking kipping (but there is still full extension and the chin reaches the bar) you can see [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeobRHs35J4"]from here[/URL] that women are more than capable of doing 8. If you're talking dead hang, that's still hard but not impossible. For those wondering about Evelyn's capabilities, it's 2 consecutive sets of 10 dead-hang.
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