The Challenge Series: RW/RR (Generic Thread)

[QUOTE=cryssy19;222929]Strictly matter of opinion. What you see as most important challenges may differ for someone else. Proves my point, just accept everyone has different strengths because when someone begins talking about who's better than who, it is usually a matter of opinion and subjectivity which others disagree with. Let it go.[/QUOTE] It's not a matter of opinion, it's very much a fact. Wes won the 2nd last challenge guaranteeing himself a spot in the Finals over CT and Brad, and Wes also won the final challenge, which is very obviously THE most important challenge of the season. Either way, my original point was that Wes would beat Evan in a physical elimination round like pole wrestling.

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;222932]It's not a matter of opinion, it's very much a fact. Wes won the 2nd last challenge guaranteeing himself a spot in the Finals over CT and Brad, and Wes also won the final challenge, which is very obviously THE most important challenge of the season. Either way, my original point was that Wes would beat Evan in a physical elimination round like pole wrestling.[/QUOTE] I agree that Wes won the 2 most important challenges of the Duel, but I honestly think he lucked out big time. And that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he would beat Evan at something like Pole Wrestle. He may have beaten Derrick, but barely. He was a complete wreck after.

[QUOTE=Moonpaw;222934]I agree that Wes won the 2 most important challenges of the Duel, but I honestly think he lucked out big time. [/QUOTE] I disagree. [QUOTE] And that has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he would beat Evan at something like Pole Wrestle.[/QUOTE] I know, that was my original point, but other people bringing up different arguments kinda sidetracked me. [QUOTE] He may have beaten Derrick, but barely. He was a complete wreck after.[/QUOTE]Derrick has a wrestling background. He is definitely tougher to beat in a competetion like pole wrestling than Evan

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;222926]Evan won 4. Wes won the 2 most important challenges and also beat Derrick in the pole wrestle duel.[/QUOTE] Evan won 6 missions: 1. the swing one with Kina 2. the pole dance one 3. stacking stairs with Jodi 4. Ice Breakers 5. Dine and Dash 6. Pass With Care with Jodi And really, you defending Wes to death is getting tiring. I'm a huge Derrick fan and even you bringing up how tough Derrick is is getting annoying. Let's move on.

[QUOTE=Morris1721;222939]Evan won 6 missions: 1. the swing one with Kina 2. the pole dance one 3. stacking stairs with Jodi 4. Ice Breakers 5. Dine and Dash 6. Pass With Care And really, you defending Wes to death is getting tiring. I'm a huge Derrick fan and even you bringing up how tough Derrick is is getting annoying. Let's move on.[/QUOTE] He won 4 by himself. The other 2 were with 2 of the strongest girls in the house. I never once brought up how tough Derrick was. I simply mentioned that he has more of a wrestling background than Evan (and most other challengers) and Wes beat him in Pole Wrestling. Are you really trying to downplay Derrick to discredit Wes? Edit: Nevermind. I read it wrong, you're right he has won 6.

Are we really still having this conversation in general? Hasn't it already been concluded that everyone has different opinions and that any competitor could lose at any time given the circumstances? Seriously, please. Let's move on to something else.

[QUOTE=Morris1721;222939]Evan won 6 missions: 1. the swing one with Kina 2. the pole dance one 3. stacking stairs with Jodi 4. Ice Breakers 5. Dine and Dash 6. Pass With Care with Jodi And really, you defending Wes to death is getting tiring. I'm a huge Derrick fan and even you bringing up how tough Derrick is is getting annoying. Let's move on.[/QUOTE] Just want to play devil's advocate a little, because it's fun. Lets not forget that Evan barely won Dine and Dash, In fact, he lost. The only reason it went down as a win, was because CT went to the last pole first.

[QUOTE=Klounsnax2.0;222951]Just want to play devil's advocate a little, because it's fun. Lets not forget that Evan barely won Dine and Dash, In fact, he lost. The only reason it went down as a win, was because CT went to the last pole first.[/QUOTE] ok, big deal...he won FIVE challenges instead of six. But in my mind it still counts as 6, because CT should have frickin' [I]listened[/I] to the rules. He eliminates himself again in that partnered mission where they have to dive to get the combinations and unlock the soccer ball from the chest. It's not something you can count on, but clearly following the rules is not something CT does well.

You really should take missions won in The Duel 1 with a grain of salt, since CT completely mailed in most of them. He even said that he didn't care about winning them, he was more focused on flirting with Diem. He knew he'd get picked up by someone if he didn't win the mission, and he knew everyone was too scared to call him. Bringing up the Dine and Dash mission...too funny that Evan and CT were goofing off the whole time, laughing and throwing food at each other, and they were still the top two guys in that mission.

The only missions CT went all out and tried to win were the days in which the top male competitor won a prize. He didn't really care about winning safety from Duels because as he said, he knew he'd be picked up. There were 7 challenges during that season that gave out prizes, and he won 3 out of those 7 (technically 4 but he had one stripped away for not following the rules). On Ring Toss, no guy really had any say in how well they did during that challenge because competitors could gang up on certain people and put rings on their pole to get them out and on Roller Derby, he was right there at the end until Brad beat him at the last split second. The only time Evan beat CT on such a challenge where it was a prize day was on Ice Breakers.

[QUOTE=townie;222962]The only missions CT went all out and tried to win were the days in which the top male competitor won a prize. He didn't really care about winning safety from Duels because as he said, he knew he'd be picked up. There were 7 challenges during that season that gave out prizes, and he won 3 out of those 7 (technically 4 but he had one stripped away for not following the rules). On Ring Toss, no guy really had any say in how well they did during that challenge because competitors could gang up on certain people and put rings on their pole to get them out and on Roller Derby, he was right there at the end until Brad beat him at the last split second. The only time Evan beat CT on such a challenge where it was a prize day was on Ice Breakers.[/QUOTE] I agree with you, i know that Ct is a beast, the comparison is between Evan and Wes, Evan outperformed Wes in fresh meat 1 and the Duel 1

Whoever keeps saying “everyone has their own opinion on who would beat who” or “well that’s just your opinion” can go ahead and stop. Of course everyone will have their own opinion. That’s what discussion is: people voicing their opinion(s) and giving reasons behind them. When it comes to Evan vs. Wes MY OPINION is that Evan would destroy Wes. Wes is a good competitor, but I wouldn’t even put him in the top 10 all time whereas I’d probably put Evan in there. Evan has never had a physical Duel like many have said, but he’s gone out their and won the duels he’s been in (minus his duel vs. CT of course). He’s strong and athletic and performs well in most missions. The only thing Wes has to hang his hat on is the fact that he beat Derrick in Pole Wrestle (and completely broke down both physically and emotionally afterwards). That’s the only accomplishment I can give him credit for. He lost to Cohutta on the Ruins, was completely winded and out of breath during his exile on Fresh Meat 2. Kenny completely had his way with him while they were wrestling on the FM2 daily. I think the main reason some people think Wes is some big, strong competitor is because he’s always cocky and yells a lot. That’s all fine and dandy, but if you can’t back it up then it means nothing.

Goo Punch, the reason people say it is because the discussions about who is better or whatever only lead to pointless debates and bickering, that sometimes lead to heated arguments. Its like politics and religion, everyone comes here with their own opinion on who is better, who isnt and you aren't going to convince them no matter how hard you argue so its better to just avoid the drama.

Well, as Veronica said on the reunion, the loss to Cohutta was really a team elimination, and Wes couldn't do it without his team guiding him through it.

[QUOTE=rsox813;223123]Well, as Veronica said on the reunion, the loss to Cohutta was really a team elimination, and Wes couldn't do it without his team guiding him through it.[/QUOTE]Yup. And what does getting thrown around by Kenny have to do with Wes as a competitor? Kenny also gave CT a bloody nose. Nobody is saying Wes is a better wrestler than Kenny.

For some reason, people think that Pole Wrestle was all about wrestling. It was about getting the pole AWAY from the other person whereas wrestling has nothing to do with that. I'll chime in a bit on the Wes vs Evan debate. Wes did not want to face CT or Evan because he knew he'd lose to either of them. He knew he had to get the two top competitors to face each other to have one of them lose. The cards fell in the right places for him. On the two challenges where Evan and Wes had to really compete against each other Evan out shined Wes. Yes, Evan had Coral and Wes had Casey but like we saw on FM2, if Wes had to carry the same weight as the people he competed against, he would have lost. Wes got very lucky the final two missions before the final on D1 were swimming oriented. I would say the same thing if it was hockey related for Evan. Wes can have big biceps or a six pack but I think Evan is more conditioned for these kind of things, except for swimming, then Wes.

So from this thread I've come to realize that there's pretty much an excuse for every single win Wes has ever gotten. The challenge was swimming orientated so that apparently takes away from Wes's win? Lol... I don't know how many challenges you've watched, but almost every challenge has many swimming orientated challenges on it. So because Wes is a good swimmer his wins are discredited? Was Michael Jordan's championships discredited because he was better than everyone else at basketball? Come on now....

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;223184]So from this thread I've come to realize that there's pretty much an excuse for every single win Wes has ever gotten. The challenge was swimming orientated so that apparently takes away from Wes's win? Lol... I don't know how many challenges you've watched, but almost every challenge has many swimming orientated challenges on it. So because Wes is a good swimmer his wins are discredited? Was Michael Jordan's championships discredited because he was better than everyone else at basketball? Come on now....[/QUOTE] I am not discrediting Wes' wins in those 2 missions. I'm just saying that the cards fell in the right place for him with those being swimming missions. But look at it realistically. Everyone said Wes was the exile king after FM1 but forgot that he had to carry much less weight then everyone else and when FM2 happened and he had the same weight as his opponents, we saw what happened. Wes' wins against Nick and Chet on the Ruins were real. Nothing to say or prove that he didn't legitimately win those. Whether you think Wes won the 2 most important missions or not, the facts written on paper still say that Evan > Wes. Wes may be better at SPECIFIC things, like swimming, but as an overall player, not only is Evan stronger but also strategically better. As much as CT was the POWER of the Vets team on G3, Evan was the brains during the missions.

[QUOTE=faceless;223185]I am not discrediting Wes' wins in those 2 missions. I'm just saying that the cards fell in the right place for him with those being swimming missions. But look at it realistically. Everyone said Wes was the exile king after FM1 but forgot that he had to carry much less weight then everyone else and when FM2 happened and he had the same weight as his opponents, we saw what happened. Wes' wins against Nick and Chet on the Ruins were real. Nothing to say or prove that he didn't legitimately win those. Whether you think Wes won the 2 most important missions or not, the facts written on paper still say that Evan > Wes. Wes may be better at SPECIFIC things, like swimming, but as an overall player, not only is Evan stronger but also strategically better. As much as CT was the POWER of the Vets team on G3, Evan was the brains during the missions.[/QUOTE]He might have had less weight on but he also had Casey, one of the worst female challengers ever, and they still pretty much destroyed most of the teams they faced in the Exile. I was never making the case that Wes was better than Evan. My point was, from what we've seen so far, I think Wes would beat Evan in a physical competition like pole wrestle, or the Gulag that Derrick/Brandon did. Evan would beat Wes in any competition that has to do with weight and he would also destroy Wes in a puzzle.

Agreed, people try and discredit Wes with too many excuses when only some of them are really viable. For instance we dont know that Evan would have beat Wes in the duel NOR do we know if Wes thought that Evan would beat him.

[QUOTE=faceless;223185]I am not discrediting Wes' wins in those 2 missions. I'm just saying that the cards fell in the right place for him with those being swimming missions. But look at it realistically. Everyone said Wes was the exile king after FM1 but forgot that he had to carry much less weight then everyone else and[B] when FM2 happened and he had the same weight as his opponents, we saw what happened.[/B] Wes' wins against Nick and Chet on the Ruins were real. Nothing to say or prove that he didn't legitimately win those. Whether you think Wes won the 2 most important missions or not, the facts written on paper still say that Evan > Wes. Wes may be better at SPECIFIC things, like swimming, but as an overall player, not only is Evan stronger but also strategically better. As much as CT was the POWER of the Vets team on G3, Evan was the brains during the missions.[/QUOTE] It has been said that he gave up and threw the exile after he realized they were far behind.

[QUOTE=JEK & Wes;223187]He might have had less weight on but he also had Casey, one of the worst female challengers ever, and they still pretty much destroyed most of the teams they faced in the Exile. I was never making the case that Wes was better than Evan. My point was, from what we've seen so far, I think Wes would beat Evan in a physical competition like pole wrestle, or the Gulag that Derrick/Brandon did. Evan would beat Wes in any competition that has to do with weight and he would also destroy Wes in a puzzle.[/QUOTE] I'm rewatching Fresh Meat now and I used to think Casey was one of the weakest girls, but my opinion changed a bit. 1. She had to put up with Wes's bad attitude the whole time and that takes A LOT, considering how poorly he treated and instead of screwing him by giving up just to have him lose, she kept fighting. 2. She lasted through ALL those Exiles and even though Wes may have carried more weight, she kept up and (as of ep. 12) didn't give up in the Exiles. She did freak out on the challenge, but it WAS a FOUR story jump and that'd scare a lot of people. She didn't freak out about going in. I wouldn't mark her as one of the great female competitors, but she's at least out of the worst category in my book. It takes a lot to keep going when you can't stand your partner.

[QUOTE=v123;223204]It has been said that he gave up and threw the exile after he realized they were far behind.[/QUOTE] I really don't believe that at all. That's a total cop out. Although, lets say he did give up. He gave up because he was so far behind. If he was as good as he thought he was, he wouldn't have been so far behind.

[QUOTE=v123;223204]It has been said that he gave up and threw the exile after he realized they were far behind.[/QUOTE] I agree with you, but still, Mandi and Wes both said that they still thought they could win when Wes quit, and that was what made Mandi so mad. It wasn't the fact that Wes just blatantly gave up because they were behind, it was the fact that Ev and Luke were so far ahead right from the first puzzle and Mandi and Wes both knew they still could've won, [I]then[/I] Wes still gave up instead of completing the comeback, that made Mandi so upset. Had he continued to push his hardest, it would've been close. [QUOTE=llcooljonas;223205]I'm rewatching Fresh Meat now and I used to think Casey was one of the weakest girls, but my opinion changed a bit. 1. She had to put up with Wes's bad attitude the whole time and that takes A LOT, considering how poorly he treated and instead of screwing him by giving up just to have him lose, she kept fighting. 2. She lasted through ALL those Exiles and even though Wes may have carried more weight, she kept up and (as of ep. 12) didn't give up in the Exiles. She did freak out on the challenge, but it WAS a FOUR story jump and that'd scare a lot of people. She didn't freak out about going in. I wouldn't mark her as one of the great female competitors, but she's at least out of the worst category in my book. It takes a lot to keep going when you can't stand your partner.[/QUOTE] I know it's your opinion, and I respect that completely, and I also agree that it takes a lot to put up with what she did. But I, personally, world still consider Casey the worst competitor ever lol. All Casey had to do in most of the exiles was run/walk, which she did pretty well, but Wes did the carrying, the puzzles, and the yelling. You're right, she didn't give up, but there wasn't much for her to do anyways so giving up would've been just completely pathetic. The whole reason I don't think she ever got mad about going in was because the Austin cast was targetted from day one and she knew she'd be going in until she went home. It just so happened that the cards fell their their favor and they ended up doing well. Just my two cents though.

Yeah, Casey is the worst of all-time, not even so much because she sucks, but just because she's has no competitive spirit at all. And she seems real immature. Everyone knew she had no chance in winning the Duel, I mean I can't think of a single girl in any duel game she could have defeated. She had a chance though to win the G3. I don't think her chances will get any better than that. Look at Casey's elimination record: Freshmeat: 5-0 Duel: 0-1 Gauntlet 3: 0-1 The Ruins: 0-1 Considering 2 of her wins were against Melinda & Ryan and Jessie & Johanna, that leaves her with 3 legit wins. I think the Danny & Ev thing was a fluke, and defeating Eric in any kind of race or Katie for that matter isn't all that impressive. That leaves her with one good win against Shane & Linette. If Casey trained she could be decent. But as Brad says, I have no idea why she even shows up. She doesn't like to compete and she knows she's gonna get voted off. I mean of course we know why she's there, but it's like at the same time, we KNOW you're not gonna win. Go ahead, Casey, work out, conquer your fear of heights and prove us wrong.

I would like to correct myself. Casey & Wes beat Tonya & Johnnie, not Eric & Katie. So I suppose that gives them another good win.

[QUOTE=rsox813;223215]Yeah, Casey is the worst of all-time, not even so much because she sucks, but just because she's has no competitive spirit at all. And she seems real immature. Everyone knew she had no chance in winning the Duel, I mean I can't think of a single girl in any duel game she could have defeated. She had a chance though to win the G3. I don't think her chances will get any better than that. Look at Casey's elimination record: Freshmeat: 5-0 Duel: 0-1 Gauntlet 3: 0-1 The Ruins: 0-1 Considering 2 of her wins were against Melinda & Ryan and Jessie & Johanna, that leaves her with 3 legit wins. I think the Danny & Ev thing was a fluke, and defeating Eric in any kind of race or Katie for that matter isn't all that impressive. That leaves her with one good win against Shane & Linette. If Casey trained she could be decent. But as Brad says, I have no idea why she even shows up. She doesn't like to compete and she knows she's gonna get voted off. I mean of course we know why she's there, but it's like at the same time, we KNOW you're not gonna win. Go ahead, Casey, work out, conquer your fear of heights and prove us wrong.[/QUOTE] I agree for the most part. But the sad thing is, is that she could potentially win. All the opposite team has to do is keep her around until the final, and if she has such a strong team that her complete suckiness isn't a monster factor, she could get a challenge W. And since you brought up FM, her suckiness actually helped her get the money she did. Tina and Kenny had the decision to set-up the final exile and they saved Wes and Casey because they were gonna be much easier to beat than both Darrell and Aviv and Derrick and Diem. So Casey actually did one thing that potentially helped her teammate lol.

Oh yeah you're definitely right. I feel like the opposing team will spend the entire season trying to keep her for a final (i.e. Real World with Katie on the Inferno, Champions with Casey on the Ruins) and her team will spend the entire season trying to get read of her (i.e. Road Rules with Katie on the Inferno, Sarah on the Gauntlet, etc.). I wonder what Wes would say to that if Casey told him she helped him get to the finals in FM lol. And the thing about it is, I didn't mind Katie winning the Inferno at all. She won two infernos, did pretty well in *most* of the missions and helped her team in the final. Casey hasn't won anything on her own, don't remember her doing particularly well in any mission, and definitely did NOT help Wes in the FM finals. Plus, Katie's a fireball and wanted to win. Casey is like oh wait, is this a challenge? Wait... what does challenge mean?

[QUOTE=faceless;223209]I really don't believe that at all. That's a total cop out. Although, lets say he did give up. He gave up because he was so far behind. If he was as good as he thought he was, he wouldn't have been so far behind.[/QUOTE] Do you know why they got behind in the first place? Because of Mandi. Evelyn said that Mandi struggled in the first part of the race, which eventually made Wes think that they were too far behind to even have a chance. Evelyn said that she did not agree with what Wes did, but could see why he did it. Despite "giving up", Wes and Mandi still had the second fastest time in that exile out of EVERYBODY. Evelyn and Luke were #1, but Wes and Mandi still outperformed Evelyn and Luke's first run when they had gone against Paula and Jeff.