[QUOTE=nellygrl;168942]Yes, it's clear that everyone in the game has at some point made a movie that was personally motivated, but Wes definitely takes the cake in that area.
And I guess we'll both see what we want to see in this area. You're a Wes supporter... I support JEK. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
Can you please tell me when Wes has made personally motivated decisions? I know you're probably going to bring up Kenny vs. Sarah, but that's still good strategy--it sends home someone from an alliance against yours, with the possibility of it being one of the strongest teams, AND it's not like Kenny was on their own team to throw missions or quit! I'm honest here--please list all of the dumb decisions Wes has made, and the disrespectful and traitorous things he's done.
I could come up with a list for JEK, and if you want me to, I will. I'm not even a Wes supporter, but I feel like you're turning a blind eye to all the ****ty stuff JEK does to win. You call their actions fair, and good strategy, but if anyone else tries to do it, they're petty and disrespectful.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168929]I disagree that it wasn't strategic at all. It was just as strategic as sending Kenny in against Sarah. And lets face it, all the power players in Wes's alliance are personally motivated. Ev is just trying to get rid of Kenny because she hates him.
And we'll never see eye to eye on the master minds thing. I'm not going to hold it against KEJ that they run the game. If they know how to play the game... they know how to play the game. That's not something to dislike a player for. At least IMO.[/QUOTE]
I can't believe you're comparing the Ev vs. KA match-up to Kenny vs. Sarah. Kenny vs. Sarah was a win-win and we've discussed that a lot already. Ev. vs. KA wasn't a win-win AT ALL. Like I said, ask Johanna today if that was a strategic decision and a win-win for their team. Ask Johanna if ******* off their best girl who was going to get rid of all the girls from the other team so that the girls that were part of the alliance could make it the end was a good decision.
I feel like it's pointless to continue to argue with you. You have made it clear that you support JEK and that apparently [B]everything[/B] they do is valid. Even JEK themselves have been able to admit when they have been wrong but you justify all their moves. Even decisions that are solely personal you classify them as "in part personal and in part strategic". Your lack of objectivity renders all this discussion pointless. Maybe I'll be willing to have an amicable discussion with you again if I feel like you're open to see that the Gods JEK aren't perfect and that not everything that they have done can be justified. And before you tell me you know they're not perfect please take the time to re-read everything you have written and you will see that you have justified EVERY single thing they have done. You even justified their dumbest move of sending Ev against KA, that most of them can accept today it was a stupid move.
And BTW, I'm not questioning your objectivity simply because you don't agree with me. It's the simple fact that you can't see anything good in any of Wes' actions while you stand behind all of JEK's moves. While I do prefer Wes over JEK, I can give props when it's due. I have said before that Evan to me is one of the best all-around players we have seen in this game. I don't like the guy but I can give him props for being the terrific competitor that he is. Just because I don't like him doesn't mean I have to criticize his every move. While the word fan does come from fanatic, in practice I think there's a difference between being a fan and being literally a fanatic.
[QUOTE=Desertpuma;168849]Kenny has got proportionally smarter has he does more Challenges. In this though, he is really stepping out from behind Evan's shadow.[/QUOTE]
I really do not think Kenny was ever "stupid" I mean he has aligned himself well in the past which shows that he is smart. Just because not until recently we see his game plan on tv or in dailies (due to other cast members more in the spotlight) does not mean this is not always how he has acted.
[QUOTE=evansfan;168981]I really do not think Kenny was ever "stupid" I mean he has aligned himself well in the past which shows that he is smart. [/QUOTE]
You don't need to be smart to align yourself with the right people, and anyways, he was friends with them to begin with. That's how they became allies. Not the other way around. I'm not saying he's stupid either, just saying that it doesn't take smarts to do what he did.
Ev and Wes are so cocky. I don't know why they think they're running the game. Sure, they've got the numbers at the moment, but nobodies going to like their attitudes. The thing about them is that they actually tell people they're running the game. Wes and Ev are all, "I'm going to throw in this person and that..." Like all they have to do is snap their fingers. Nobody wants that.
And why is it that Danny the puppet is the only one who realizes Kenny isn't dead yet? Wes and Ev are talking about him like he's a punk or something, someone they can easily throw in. But they don't realize that Kenny is actually a good competitor and even if he was thrown in, there's a good chance he'd come back no matter who he went in against seeing as he has the best team in the game.
Like, are you joking? So if Kenny wins the house back, they are going to look the fool for it.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;169017]Ev and Wes are so cocky. I don't know why they think they're running the game. Sure, they've got the numbers at the moment, but nobodies going to like their attitudes. The thing about them is that they actually tell people they're running the game. Wes and Ev are all, "I'm going to throw in this person and that..." Like all they have to do is snap their fingers. Nobody wants that.
And why is it that Danny the puppet is the only one who realizes Kenny isn't dead yet? Wes and Ev are talking about him like he's a punk or something, someone they can easily throw in. But they don't realize that Kenny is actually a good competitor and even if he was thrown in, there's a good chance he'd come back no matter who he went in against seeing as he has the best team in the game.
Like, are you joking? So if Kenny wins the house back, they are going to look the fool for it.[/QUOTE]
They don't "think" they're running the game; at this point, they ARE running the game. It might not stay that way the whole time, but for the moment they are because they have their numbers, and their alliance isn't going to turn on them at this point. At this point, they can vote in who they want, and their alliance will do that because it will SAVE THEM. And they knew that Kenny would keep coming back; that's what they were trying to plan for!
Honestly, sometimes I feel like we're watching two completely different shows. And please tell me how this is any different from what JEK have done on past challenges.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169019]They don't "think" they're running the game; at this point, they ARE running the game. It might not stay that way the whole time, but for the moment they are because they have their numbers, and their alliance isn't going to turn on them at this point. At this point, they can vote in who they want, and their alliance will do that because it will SAVE THEM. And they knew that Kenny would keep coming back; that's what they were trying to plan for!
Honestly, sometimes I feel like we're watching two completely different shows. And please tell me how this is any different from what JEK have done on past challenges.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, I have no problem with them running the game. It's how they run the game. When JEK run the game, they don't blatantly walk around talking about how they're running the game (like Wes: "I'll tell you, I'm throwing in one of your friends and they're easier than Katelynn..." and "No, she didn;t make good points, she was right...") They at least put on airs that make it seem like other people have input and power.
Wes and Ev are just walking around like king and queen of the game. It just annoys me. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the fact that they're running it... I just can't stand the way they do. And I think the way they're doing it will have consequences.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;169079]Oh no, I have no problem with them running the game. It's how they run the game. When JEK run the game, they don't blatantly walk around talking about how they're running the game (like Wes: "I'll tell you, I'm throwing in one of your friends and they're easier than Katelynn..." and "No, she didn;t make good points, she was right...") They at least put on airs that make it seem like other people have input and power.
Wes and Ev are just walking around like king and queen of the game. It just annoys me. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the fact that they're running it... I just can't stand the way they do. And I think the way they're doing it will have consequences.[/QUOTE]
Where was the first quote from? As far as I can tell, most of the times where Wes acted like that it was either with Danny, one of his really close friends and allies, or when Kenny went and talked to him. Looks to me like Wes is trying to keep all their conversations on the DL--either outside, or very hush-hush. He's not saying this stuff with a bunch of other people around. And Ev...she's not saying anything to anyone besides Wes, which is brilliant, because everyone is going to go after him first. Kenny is no idiot and he knows she's in on it, but clearly his first target is Wes.
If anything, JEK make a bigger deal of them running the game than Wes. The only time they pretend that other people matter is when they need the votes, and it doesn't even matter because JEK are gonna screw those people anyways.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169082]Where was the first quote from? As far as I can tell, most of the times where Wes acted like that it was either with Danny, one of his really close friends and allies, or when Kenny went and talked to him. Looks to me like Wes is trying to keep all their conversations on the DL--either outside, or very hush-hush. He's not saying this stuff with a bunch of other people around. And Ev...she's not saying anything to anyone besides Wes, which is brilliant, because everyone is going to go after him first. Kenny is no idiot and he knows she's in on it, but clearly his first target is Wes.
If anything, JEK make a bigger deal of them running the game than Wes. The only time they pretend that other people matter is when they need the votes, and it doesn't even matter because JEK are gonna screw those people anyways.[/QUOTE]
The first quote was from a Daily... I think it was called "The War Begins" or something. But the thing is, JEK NEVER say anything like that. They make plans, they scheme, they turn on people... this is all true. But they never talk like they have the reins of the game completely, or not that I can remember. I can;t remember a time where JEK ever said something like, "We're sending in this person... and that's that." Sure, people have gone in at their hands, but they go to people humbly (as fake as it may be) and ask them to vote. Wes is on some power high where he thinks he's invincible. He has the power, don't get me wrong, but the point is he doesn't seem to realize that power can be taken away.
IDK. It's not that I'm under the impression that JEK are this group of Greek Gods that can do no wrong. The way they run the game doesn't annoy me is the thing. Wes is just so BLATANTLY cocky and smug about the game. I can't stand it. That's why I can't stand Wes.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;169092]The first quote was from a Daily... I think it was called "The War Begins" or something. But the thing is, JEK NEVER say anything like that. They make plans, they scheme, they turn on people... this is all true. But they never talk like they have the reins of the game completely, or not that I can remember. I can;t remember a time where JEK ever said something like, "We're sending in this person... and that's that." Sure, people have gone in at their hands, but they go to people humbly (as fake as it may be) and ask them to vote. Wes is on some power high where he thinks he's invincible. He has the power, don't get me wrong, but the point is he doesn't seem to realize that power can be taken away.
IDK. It's not that I'm under the impression that JEK are this group of Greek Gods that can do no wrong. The way they run the game doesn't annoy me is the thing. Wes is just so BLATANTLY cocky and smug about the game. I can't stand it. That's why I can't stand Wes.[/QUOTE]
I am a huge fan of Wes, but I actually agree with you here. I feel like what Wes lacks most in these challenges is People skills. Is he strong? Yes. Can he manipulate his worst enemy? He can and he has. Can he win a 1-on-1 against some of the toughest players? He's done so on many occasions, but his cockiness and his mouth are what will continue to make things increasingly difficult for him. He only makes himself a bigger target by running around boasting about how spectacular he is. I greatly Dislike Kenny/Evan and what they stand for, but you have to hand it to them, they know exactly how to play it to not only get the house working for them, but to make some of the players eager to work for them. They have proven time and again that ther word is ****, and yet we have seen time and again people trust them. Why? Because they don't broadcast their talents to as many people as they can. They play it fairly low-key and, it seems, they don't take themselves as seriously.
I want Wes to, one of these days, come into the game quietly. Not like some sort of storm ready to take over the house/game, but as just another player taking it day by day. He may find less people gunning for him this way and could possibly earn himself more allies in the game.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168952]Can you please tell me when Wes has made personally motivated decisions? I know you're probably going to bring up Kenny vs. Sarah, but that's still good strategy--it sends home someone from an alliance against yours, with the possibility of it being one of the strongest teams, AND it's not like Kenny was on their own team to throw missions or quit! I'm honest here--please list all of the dumb decisions Wes has made, and the disrespectful and traitorous things he's done.
I could come up with a list for JEK, and if you want me to, I will. I'm not even a Wes supporter, but I feel like you're turning a blind eye to all the ****ty stuff JEK does to win. You call their actions fair, and good strategy, but if anyone else tries to do it, they're petty and disrespectful.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. To sit here and slam Wes' behavior while simultaneously ignoring the bad behavior of Evan, Kenny, and Johnny makes you look completely and utterly biased against Wes for no apparent reason.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168968]I can't believe you're comparing the Ev vs. KA match-up to Kenny vs. Sarah. Kenny vs. Sarah was a win-win and we've discussed that a lot already. Ev. vs. KA wasn't a win-win AT ALL. Like I said, ask Johanna today if that was a strategic decision and a win-win for their team. Ask Johanna if ******* off their best girl who was going to get rid of all the girls from the other team so that the girls that were part of the alliance could make it the end was a good decision.
I feel like it's pointless to continue to argue with you. You have made it clear that you support JEK and that apparently [B]everything[/B] they do is valid. Even JEK themselves have been able to admit when they have been wrong but you justify all their moves. Even decisions that are solely personal you classify them as "in part personal and in part strategic". Your lack of objectivity renders all this discussion pointless. Maybe I'll be willing to have an amicable discussion with you again if I feel like you're open to see that the Gods JEK aren't perfect and that not everything that they have done can be justified. And before you tell me you know they're not perfect please take the time to re-read everything you have written and you will see that you have justified EVERY single thing they have done. You even justified their dumbest move of sending Ev against KA, that most of them can accept today it was a stupid move.
And BTW, I'm not questioning your objectivity simply because you don't agree with me. It's the simple fact that you can't see anything good in any of Wes' actions while you stand behind all of JEK's moves. While I do prefer Wes over JEK, I can give props when it's due. I have said before that Evan to me is one of the best all-around players we have seen in this game. I don't like the guy but I can give him props for being the terrific competitor that he is. Just because I don't like him doesn't mean I have to criticize his every move. While the word fan does come from fanatic, in practice I think there's a difference between being a fan and being literally a fanatic.[/QUOTE]
I don't support everything JEK do. I hated Evan on the Gauntlet 3. I thought what he did to Coral was scummy. I hated Kenny during the Ruins. He was terrible to Sarah. Johnny... he's never really done anything all that bad except being a kind of general jerk.
The thing is, Wes plays the game like he does no wrong is the thing. Like whenever people throw him in, he talks about being "hurt" and "betrayed" (he said this in the first episode of the Ruins, I believe... after throwing the mission) like he did nothing to deserve it. What did Kenny say when he was thrown in? He said Oh well. I'll come back and kick butt. That's what I like about JEK. It's not that I think they're Gods and do no wrong. It's that they play the game, they do scummy things, but they don't cry over the consequences.
I mean, I think Wes is a strong competitor, but I'm not going to pretend that I think any of the moves he makes are smart because I don't. He makes the same mistakes over and over and over and he learns nothing. He picked Casey in the first Fresh Meat. Who does he pick in the second? Another Casey. And why? Because Sydney's favorite thing wasn't running? I'm sorry, but that was stupid. In the Ruins, he came in acting like a punk and he got kicked off. In the second, he comes in acting like a punk. He's got more leeway this time, but I think he'll pay for his behavior later on.
I'm no JEK fanatic. I just think they know how to play the game. They're jerks. I know this. Wes and JEK do a lot of the same things, but JEK do it RIGHT. I'm not going to apologize for thinking so.
And by the way, I'm not saying that it wasn't stupid and not personal to send in KA against Ev. It was personal. And it was on some level stupid. But what I've been trying to get across is that they thought Ev would come back. It was stupid for them to assume that Ev would just sit back and let them use her like a pawn to send KA home seeing as that's not her personality at all and that's where I would say the stupid factor came in. But had she done what they wanted her to, the move was strategic. All I'm saying is that while it was stupid and personal, there was strategy behind it all.
You're wrong that I think KEJ are Gods... because that completely isn't the case. But you are right that I am biased against Wes. I just hate the guy. His personality URKs me. So yeah, it's hard for me to see any good in him. But that doesn't mean I can't see any bad in KEJ. Because I most certainly do.
Faceless put it better than me (and more concise):
[quote]The only difference I see with JEK and Wes is that JEK play a better social game because they build numbers. Wes thinks he can do it all and has no problem telling people that but it bites him in the a** in the end.[/quote]
[QUOTE=nellygrl;169163]I don't support everything JEK do. I hated Evan on the Gauntlet 3. I thought what he did to Coral was scummy. I hated Kenny during the Ruins. He was terrible to Sarah. Johnny... he's never really done anything all that bad except being a kind of general jerk.
The thing is, Wes plays the game like he does no wrong is the thing. Like whenever people throw him in, he talks about being "hurt" and "betrayed" (he said this in the first episode of the Ruins, I believe... after throwing the mission) like he did nothing to deserve it. What did Kenny say when he was thrown in? He said Oh well. I'll come back and kick butt. That's what I like about JEK. It's not that I think they're Gods and do no wrong. It's that the play the game, they do scummy things, but they don't cry over the consequences.[/QUOTE]
I know I defend JEK a lot but lets break it down:
Wes on FM was sent in a lot he he seemed to have manned up went in, I don't remember much from that season. Wes on the Duel only went in once and it was part of his plan. Wes on the Ruins acted surprised that he was to be sent in over other people even though JEK didn't like him, JEK are good friends with Derrick and Darrell and liked Syrus better then Wes. He threw fits and b****ed like a child. The only real contender Wes has beat was Derrick and that did make me see him as a strong person but just not as strong as he thinks he is because as good as Derrick is, the size difference was there.
Johnny on Duel lost the first round and he didn't do much. Johnny didn't go in on I3 but on G3 when he was sent in he threw a fit just like Wes. Johnny on the Island when he lost to Derrick walked into the forest, sat down at a tree and sulked like a child. He even said in a confessional that if people sent him home then they'd be cowards. No Johnny, they'd be smart and actually Abe is a better player then you so get yours facts straight. Johnny on Ruins tried to squirm his way out of going against Dunbar but EKD wanted him to go in. Johnny hasn't really beaten any top player and he lost to Tyler.
Kenny on Duel said "I didn't expect to go in this early (against Nehemiah, I'm ******''. Kenny didn't go in on I3 and G3. He lost to Abe but still got a key and that was all he did that season and he didn't go in on the Ruins. He's gone in once so far on FMII and didn't exactly freak out. Kenny hasn't beaten anyone great and lost to Nehemiah who is decent.
Now Evan seems really confident in himself which is okay cause he is good but he gets all bent out of shape every time he has to go in. Evan lost to one of the best ever, CT, and has beat no one special.
The only difference I see with JEK and Wes is that JEK play a better social game because they build numbers. Wes thinks he can do it all and has no problem telling people that but it bites him in the a** in the end. I hate when JEK messes with people then laugh at them but Wes does it too. I hate when Wes talks down to people but hey, JEK do it too. I think Kenny and Evan are annoying at times but it's Wes and Johnny that really rub me the wrong way. It just has worked out for JEK and not for Wes so like Kenny did after his first 2 challenges, Johnny after his first 3, and Evan after his 3, Wes needs to rethink his game.
Evan has beaten Johnny and he did beat nehemiah who you reffered to as decent. As far as I'm concerned of the 3 Evan is the most proven as he has only lost once in an individual face-off and it was agianst one of the best. He may have only won twice but he seems to do less challlenges and with that being the case has less opportunity to win.
As for Kenny and Johnny with their medicore track records of individual face-offs (Kenny 0-1) (Johnny 1-2) I am hard pressed to really consider them better than average and if/when they take on Danny in an individual faceoff I think it would be funny for them to lose.
[QUOTE=mr.unamazing;169166]Evan has beaten Johnny and he did beat nehemiah who you reffered to as decent. As far as I'm concerned of the 3 Evan is the most proven as he has only lost once in an individual face-off and it was agianst one of the best. He may have only won twice but he seems to do less challlenges and with that being the case has less opportunity to win.
As for Kenny and Johnny with their medicore track records of individual face-offs (Kenny 0-1) (Johnny 1-2) [B]I am hard pressed to really consider them better than average and if/when they take on Danny in an individual faceoff I think it would be funny for them to lose[/B].[/QUOTE]
Please Challenge gods, let this happen. I will laugh so hard if either of those clowns lose to Danny.
[QUOTE=elkportillo;169172]Are Evan and Coral still friends.[/QUOTE]
I hope they are. I really loved them in FM. But I wouldn't be surprised if Coral got rid of Evan after G3. He certainly deserved it.
But did you see the Daily where Evan said he and Coral hooked up? That surprised the **** out of me. And I wonder when this was? I'm guessing sometime between FM and G3 because, again, I don't think Coral appreciated what Evan did to her in G3.
The diference between JEK and wes/evelyn running the game is that JEK can separate the game aspect from the social aspect.
Wes and evelyn always take the issues to the personal level and they isolate from the people who are not with them and they watch them like enemies and become too predictable unlike JEK who hang out with everybody and joke around with everybody and leave the diffrences aside but when its time to vote or throw somebody in they do something unexpected. For example in the ruins JEK wanted to get rid of kellyanne but they hung out with her several times when they were playing in the pool and in her birhtday, they hung out with danny several times who was the best friend of wes in the ruins.
[QUOTE=alucard666;169194]The diference between JEK and wes/evelyn running the game is that JEK can separate the game aspect from the social aspect.
Wes and evelyn always take the issues to the personal level and they isolate from the people who are not with them and they watch them like enemies and become too predictable unlike JEK who hang out with everybody and joke around with everybody and leave the diffrences aside but when its time to vote or throw somebody in they do something unexpected. For example in the ruins JEK wanted to get rid of kellyanne but they hung out with her several times when they were playing in the pool and in her birhtday, they hung out with danny several times who was the best friend of wes in the ruins.[/QUOTE]
When you're running the game, it's easy to be nice to everyone. Plus, JEK haven't really been screwed over by many people until this point, so it's not like they have a reason to hold a grudge. Besides, Wes and Kenny seemed to be getting along in the Daily where they were wrestling, and Evelyn (knowing that Paula hates her) was still trying to be friendly.
But I do agree with what was said earlier, that JEK know the social aspect of the game much better than Wes. Wes does have a very cocky attitude; however, I think we the viewers see a LOT more of it in his confessionals than other castmembers do in general. Plus, I feel like what JEK does is even worse. Imagine being thrown into Exile by someone you thought you were friends with, vs. someone who you know doesn't particularly care. Which would be worse? And, as I've said before, even though they can be nice, Johnny especially has an issue with being downright mean to people who don't deserve it.
[QUOTE=ILoveRW;169208]Johnny held a pretty big grudge against Tyler after he called him out on The Duel.[/QUOTE]
Was it really a grudge, or was it just an added bonus to him when they put Tyler in the gauntlet?
[QUOTE=ILoveRW;169211]Johnny was the only one really pushing for Tyler to go in, and he made the point of saying that it was revenge for what happened on The Duel.[/QUOTE]
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I don't really remember it well, and I know on the Duel he said he was ok, but on G3 he was clearly not ok with it, and took great pleasure in telling Tyler he was going in.
We got another shout-out from Evelyn on her myspace blog!
[quote]I’ve started a little account at [URL="http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vdmV2bW8uY29t"]vevmo.com[/URL], a fairly reliable Reality TV discussion page, and I might chip in my two cents here and there on that site, but even if I do it will be very minimal. [/quote]
Sadly, she told us her blogging days on Myspace are over =( I always loved getting her behind-the-scenes description of what was left out.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169240]
Sadly, she told us her blogging days on Myspace are over =( [/QUOTE]
I think a lot of people's "MySpace" days are over...FB FTW! ;)
But I'm sure she'll find other ways to fill us in, either via this site or another blogging outlet.
[QUOTE=OtherPplsDrama;169264]I think a lot of people's "MySpace" days are over...FB FTW! ;)
But I'm sure she'll find other ways to fill us in, either via this site or another blogging outlet.[/QUOTE]
She said she really doesn't have much to say for this challenge, but if she did, it would probably be here. She's not into FB or twitter.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;169266]She said she really doesn't have much to say for this challenge, but if she did, it would probably be here. She's not into FB or twitter.[/QUOTE]
she's winning challenges and kicking people's *****. I love Evelyn!
Pages