[QUOTE=Entropy;168853]People seem to forget Kenny going home early in the Duel 1 where Wes won..so yeah Wes has finished higher than Kenny on a challenge.[/QUOTE]
But that was just one challenge. Kenny's finished above him in everything else. Cohutta beat him in the Ruins at a challenge he was certain he would win. And Kenny stomped him at wrestling in the Dailies. IDK. It's not that I "forget" that Wes has won a challenge... it's that one challenge win doesn't make him the number one player like he seems to think he is.
[QUOTE=Entropy;168853]People seem to forget Kenny going home early in the Duel 1 where Wes won..so yeah Wes has finished higher than Kenny on a challenge.[/QUOTE]
They do remember it, they just diminish it saying it only happened once.... But let's break this down:
1)FM1- Kenny finished one place higher than Wes, who was teamed up with arguably one of the worst females to have ever competed in these challenges.
2)D1- Kenny lost against Nehemiah and Wes ended up winning the whole thing.
3)Ruins- Wes lost against Cohutta and Kenny ended up winning the whole thing. Wes was sent to the ruins 3 times while Kenny never set foot in an elimination round in this challenge.
4) FM2- It's yet to be seen how this one will play out, but so far Kenny has won 1 elimination round.
So far its 2-1, but when you take into the account the number of elimination rounds Wes has had to face vs the number of elimination rounds Kenny faced, I'm not ready to say oh Kenny is a lot better competitor than Wes because he's gotten further than Wes in 2 challenges. It's really hard to compare these 2 when you have one that has been in 8 elimination rounds vs another guy who has only been in 3. Either way to me 7-1 looks better and more impressive than 2-1.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168862]They do remember it, they just diminish it saying it only happened once.... But let's break this down:
1)FM1- Kenny finished one place higher than Wes, who was teamed up with arguably one of the worst females to have ever competed in these challenges.
2)D1- Kenny lost against Nehemiah and Wes ended up winning the whole team.
3)Ruins- Wes lost against Cohutta and Kenny ended up winning the whole thing. Wes was sent to the ruins 3 times while Kenny never set foot in an elimination round in this challenge.
4) FM2- It's yet to be seen how this one will play out, but so far Kenny one 1 elimination round.
So far its 2-1, but when you take into the account the number of elimination rounds Wes has had to face vs the number of elimination rounds Kenny faced, I'm not ready to say oh Kenny is a lot better competitor than Wes because he's gotten further than Wes in 2 challenges. It's really hard to compare these 2 when you have one that has been in 8 elimination rounds vs another guy who has only been in 3.[/QUOTE]
But winning duels and eliminations rounds isn't the only aspect of being a good competitor. Avoiding them is also good competition. That's personally the route I'd take.
[QUOTE=CrazyRealityGuy;168864]Wes vs. Kenny... Do people still care about that? It's the same boring thing over and over again.[/QUOTE]
Well what else do you suggest that we focus on? That is clearly the highlight of the new challenge. Boring would be to still be talking about Veronica vs. Katie, or Coral vs. Julie, Miz vs. Abe, etc. Off course people will comment on the newest feud we're being presented with in this challenge....
[QUOTE=CrazyRealityGuy;168864]Wes vs. Kenny... Do people still care about that? It's the same boring thing over and over again.[/QUOTE]
Ummm... yes. Like DannyBoy said, there isn't much else to talk about. It's practically the theme of the show.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168865]But winning duels and eliminations rounds isn't the only aspect of being a good competitor. Avoiding them is also good competition. That's personally the route I'd take.[/QUOTE]
Avoiding elimination rounds by relying on alliances to make it to the end is fine, but it seems to me that people are focusing on athletic abilities when comparing these 2. In that sole aspect I think it's hard to compare them since Wes has had to take far more risks than Kenny has. I agree that mastering the political aspect of the game makes you a good competitor too, but it's not accurate to simply say oh Kenny has made it further than Wes in 2 challenges so therefore he's a better competitor. And quite frankly to make it far due to having 2 or 3 close friends there with you doesn't equal mastering the political aspect of the game IMO anyways. It's easier to avoid elimination rounds when you're relying on your friends than when you go there by yourself and have to convince people to align with you. The mastermind of everything IMO has always been Evan, he's the one who gets all the credit. He's the one always designing the strategy and convincing people to join forces. It's yet to be seen how good Kenny's political game is without his allies by his side and so far things aren't looking too good considering he's already failed at taking the route of avoiding elimination rounds.
[QUOTE=tjhallow;168666]It has been stated many times that none of the winners of the island were invited for the Duel 2.[/QUOTE]
To the contrary, both Evelyn and Kenny was invited to participate in Duel 2. Evelyn had other obligations, and I am unsure why Kenny declined.
Kenny's strengths are in team competitions, imo he is not cut out for a Duel format. It just seems he has this need to be co-dependant of people for his game play. Furthermore, while he is starting to gain my respect as a decent competitor, he has a long way to go esp in 1on1 elimination rounds, and he wouldn't be able to win every challenge. Actually, can someone name 1 daily challenge from any season that Kenny has won without the help of someone else.
Kenny is smart, and while he made some bold moves that may have seem to cost him in regards to an opposing alliance, he has a very strong female partner than can help him get through Exiles, if need be.
[QUOTE=Darock1713;168873][U]To the contrary, both Evelyn and Kenny was invited to participate in Duel 2[/U]. Evelyn had other obligations, and I am unsure why Kenny declined.
Kenny's strengths are in team competitions, imo he is not cut out for a Duel format. It just seems he has this need to be co-dependant of people for his game play. Furthermore, while he is starting to gain my respect as a decent competitor, he has a long way to go esp in 1on1 elimination rounds, and he wouldn't be able to win every challenge. Actually, can someone name 1 daily challenge from any season that Kenny has won without the help of someone else.
Kenny is smart, and while he made some bold moves that may have seem to cost him in regards to an opposing alliance, he has a very strong female partner than can help him get through Exiles, if need be.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you. People keep saying that it's been [U]stated[/U] that Ev wasn't invited and I prefer to say that it's been [U]speculated[/U] that she wasn't invited. I talk to Ev on myspace on a regular basis and she's told me that she was invited but couldn't do it because it interfered with her classes. She's even made this clear in some of her blogs.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168871]Avoiding elimination rounds by relying on alliances to make it to the end is fine, but it seems to me that people are focusing on athletic abilities when comparing these 2. In that sole aspect I think it's hard to compare them since Wes has had to take far more risks than Kenny has. I agree that mastering the political aspect of the game makes you a good competitor too, but it's not accurate to simply say oh Kenny has made it further than Wes in 2 challenges so therefore he's a better competitor. And quite frankly to make it far due to having 2 or 3 close friends there with you doesn't equal mastering the political aspect of the game IMO anyways. It's easier to avoid elimination rounds when you're relying on your friends than when you go there by yourself and have to convince people to align with you. The mastermind of everything IMO has always been Evan, he's the one who gets all the credit. He's the one always designing the strategy and convincing people to join forces. It's yet to be seen how good Kenny's political game is without his allies by his side and so far things aren't looking too good considering he's already failed at taking the route of avoiding elimination rounds.[/QUOTE]
Yes, by himself he hasn't done much yet, but I think he's making strides so far. And even if Kenny is only a so-so political player, Wes is a TERRIBLE political player. He doesn't know how to make true allies. He's got Danny, but that's about it. Everyone else is pretty much just going along with him for convenience. He can't go into a challenge without some form of girl drama... And this will come to bite him in the next episode based on the promo. So far, Kenny has been able to abstain from messing around with the girls (a smart political move).
Kenny definitely has some way to go, but I definitely think he's proving himself as a power player all on his own. Wes is a good competitor athletically, but it looks like that isn't enough to get someone to the end.
I'm not really sure, from the viewpoint of an "average" participant, what sense it makes to keep [i]any[/i] of the top physical competitors around to reach the final challenge, unless they are just content to earn 4th/3rd/2nd place by default and win some amount of money. If it were me in that position, regardless whether or not I thought I could beat them, I would be trying to take out Darrell/Wes/Landon/other juggernaut. Either I beat them now, or I have to deal with them in the end. For that reason, I've never respected anyone's decision in the history of the challenges more than Nehemiah when he called out Evan on Duel 2, recognizing him as one of the strongest social/phsyical competitors.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168875]Yes, by himself he hasn't done much yet, but I think he's making strides so far. And even if Kenny is only a so-so political player, Wes is a TERRIBLE political player. He doesn't know how to make true allies. He's got Danny, but that's about it. Everyone else is pretty much just going along with him for convenience. He can't go into a challenge without some form of girl drama... And this will come to bite him in the next episode based on the promo. So far, Kenny has been able to abstain from messing around with the girls (a smart political move).
Kenny definitely has some way to go, but I definitely think he's proving himself as a power player all on his own. Wes is a good competitor athletically, but it looks like that isn't enough to get someone to the end.[/QUOTE]
For being a "terrible" political player Wes has done pretty damn well if you ask me. He's basically determined the 2 first match-ups for FM2. He's not only got Danny, don't forget he has Evelyn, the strongest female to have ever competed in these challenges and a genius when it comes to strategy. Politically speaking so far in this challenge, Wes has done better than Kenny so for you to praise Kenny's political game and classify Wes' as terrible is a clear contradiction. Who was convinced to side with whom? Who convinced Landon to throw who under the bus? Who got tricked so far? Who had to go to the exile in only the second exile? Who has currently more people on his side? Sorry but I guess we can agree to disagree because to me is pretty obvious that Wes' political game so far has been way better than Kenny's.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168862]They do remember it, they just diminish it saying it only happened once.... But let's break this down:
1)FM1- Kenny finished one place higher than Wes, who was teamed up with arguably one of the worst females to have ever competed in these challenges.
2)D1- Kenny lost against Nehemiah and Wes ended up winning the whole thing.
3)Ruins- Wes lost against Cohutta and Kenny ended up winning the whole thing. Wes was sent to the ruins 3 times while Kenny never set foot in an elimination round in this challenge.
4) FM2- It's yet to be seen how this one will play out, but so far Kenny has won 1 elimination round.
So far its 2-1, but when you take into the account the number of elimination rounds Wes has had to face vs the number of elimination rounds Kenny faced, I'm not ready to say oh Kenny is a lot better competitor than Wes because he's gotten further than Wes in 2 challenges. It's really hard to compare these 2 when you have one that has been in 8 elimination rounds vs another guy who has only been in 3. Either way to me 7-1 looks better and more impressive than 2-1.[/QUOTE]
Seriously? Hate Kenny/Wes all you want but give them credit where they earn it.
FM1 - Kenny finished 2nd, Wes finished 3rd, end of story. You can't say "well that doesn't really count because Wes had a bad partner" considering he picked her.
D1 - Kenny left early, Wes won.
Ruins - Wes went into 3 eliminations because Wes decided that he was going to play the game a way that turned his entire team against him. It was evident that they were going to at least tolerate him for a while if he was willing to cooperate, but Wes wanted the game to be played his way. So they sent him in and he lost. It is no ones fault but his own. Kenny didn't go in any eliminations because he didn't cause any problems on the team.
To be honest I don't care who is the better competitor. Both Kenny and Wes have had their good challenges and their bad challenges. Just because I don't like Wes doesn't mean I am going to think of Kenny as a god. Wes is a strong competitor, so is Kenny.
[QUOTE=cjslife;168887]Seriously? Hate Kenny/Wes all you want but give them credit where they earn it.
FM1 - Kenny finished 2nd, Wes finished 3rd, end of story. You can't say "well that doesn't really count because Wes had a bad partner" considering he picked her.
D1 - Kenny left early, Wes won.
Ruins - Wes went into 3 eliminations because Wes decided that he was going to play the game a way that turned his entire team against him. It was evident that they were going to at least tolerate him for a while if he was willing to cooperate, but Wes wanted the game to be played his way. So they sent him in and he lost. It is no ones fault but his own. Kenny didn't go in any eliminations because he didn't cause any problems on the team.
To be honest I don't care who is the better competitor. Both Kenny and Wes have had their good challenges and their bad challenges. Just because I don't like Wes doesn't mean I am going to think of Kenny as a god. Wes is a strong competitor, so is Kenny.[/QUOTE]
Yes, seriously, you basically re-wrote what I wrote. I didn't make up anything and I never said that we shouldn't count FM1 because Wes had a bad partner. I counted it didn't I? I simply mentioned it as something that I personally take into account, it's not the same to be partnered with Casey than being partnered with Tina, who let's not forget solved correctly all the puzzles which is what gave Kenny/Tina a huge advantage over Wes/Casey.
As far as the ruins goes, I remember Wes asking for things to be fair, hence he suggesting that names be drawn out of a hat, how is that wanting for things to go his way? To leave it up to luck, really? After he tried to throw the first mission he cooperated with them and helped them win and still they kept sending him in. Kenny didn't go in any eliminations because he had a strong alliance which Wes didn't which is what caused him in the beginning to try to throw a challenge.
[QUOTE=cjslife;168887]Ruins - Wes went into 3 eliminations because Wes decided that he was going to play the game a way that turned his entire team against him. It was evident that they were going to at least tolerate him for a while if he was willing to cooperate, but Wes wanted the game to be played his way. So they sent him in and he lost. It is no ones fault but his own. Kenny didn't go in any eliminations because he didn't cause any problems on the team.[/QUOTE]
He did that on the first (ONE) mission. After that, he played nice and contributed to the team. They really just didn't like him and wanted him gone. Besides, what about Evelyn? She never caused any problems on the team, was a great asset, never even suggested she would throw anything, and they forced her into the ONE match-up that she didn't want.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168892]He did that on the first (ONE) mission. After that, he played nice and contributed to the team. They really just didn't like him and wanted him gone. Besides, what about Evelyn? She never caused any problems on the team, was a great asset, never even suggested she would throw anything, and they forced her into the ONE match-up that she didn't want.[/QUOTE]
Can you blame them for not trusting him or wanting him there after that? You can;t just say, "Oh, my bad... I'll play nice now," and think everyone;s going to be a-ok with it. So I don't see what the point is in that one. He was a wild card in the Ruins and that's why they wanted to see him gone.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168896]Can you blame them for not trusting him or wanting him there after that? You can;t just say, "Oh, my bad... I'll play nice now," and think everyone;s going to be a-ok with it. So I don't see what the point is in that one. He was a wild card in the Ruins and that's why they wanted to see him gone.[/QUOTE]
No, he was a convenient scapegoat. THAT's why they sent him in every time--it would save their *****. Did you not listen to any of their confessionals? They said it themselves.
[QUOTE=Moonpaw;168897]No, he was a convenient scapegoat. THAT's why they sent him in every time--it would save their *****. Did you not listen to any of their confessionals? They said it themselves.[/QUOTE]
He MADE himself into a convenient scapegoat. It was all his own doing. Had he come, competed well, it wouldn't have been easy for them to just say send Wes in every time and get thier way. Wes's actions in the beginning put a target on his back and made him being the scapegoat an easy, yet effective strategic move.
Had he been smart, he never would have come in the way he did.
And him being the scapegoat doesn;t change the fact that he was a lose canon and couldn't be trusted. Those were all still factors.
[QUOTE=Desertpuma;168901]Has not Wes almost always been a loose cannon on the Challenges?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess he has. That's why no one likes him much.
[QUOTE=morris614;168879]I think Landon was put in a bad spot. I think it would have been a lot better for him to avoid taking a side for at least a few more exiles.
The problem he has is that if he sides with Kenny, then right now Wes has the power to vote in Landon.
On the other hand, now he runs the risk of getting thrown in by Kenny after a win (if Wes cant win a water based challenge, he isnt going to win anything else)[/QUOTE] lol. Wes>>>>>>Kenny. The best way to see how good a competitor someone is, is through individual challenges. Wes won the Duel, Kenny went out the 2nd week....
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168899]He MADE himself into a convenient scapegoat. It was all his own doing. Had he come, competed well, it wouldn't have been easy for them to just say send Wes in every time and get thier way. Wes's actions in the beginning put a target on his back and made him being the scapegoat an easy, yet effective strategic move.
Had he been smart, he never would have come in the way he did.
And him being the scapegoat doesn;t change the fact that he was a lose canon and couldn't be trusted. Those were all still factors.[/QUOTE]
How was it convenient for Wes to be a scapegoat? Had he come and competed well? You mean had he come and submit himself to JEK's demands? You fail to see that his actions and him trying to throw that first challenge was only a reaction to his team not wanting to play fair. He only asked that the match-up for the ruins be determined by drawing a name out of a hat. How is that not fair and simply wanting for things to go his way? When you say "had he come and competed well" sounds almost like saying "had he come and agreed to take his role of going into the ruins everytime while helping his team win money too". Most people who where there can now admit that he did the best he could do based on the circumstances present at that challenge. He was a target[B][U][U] the minute[/U][/U][/B] he showed up, that's what you fail to see. Even after he decided to submit to their demands what did they do? They went after his gf (KellyAnne) and in doing so screwed up their best girl (Ev) who was playing fair.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168905]How was it convenient for Wes to be a scapegoat? Had he come and competed well? You mean had he come and agreed to JEK's demands? You fail to see that his actions and him trying to throw that first challenge was only a reaction to his team not wanting to play fair. He only asked that the match-up for the ruins be determined by drawing a name out of a hat. How is that not fair and simply wanting for things to go his way? When you say "had he come and competed well" sounds almost like saying "had he come and agreed to take his role of going into the ruins everytime while helping his team win money too". [/QUOTE]
Wait, wait, wait... I seem to remember the entire team thinking that Wes's pulling names out of a hat idea was a stupid idea? It wasn't purely JEK calling the shots on that one. And you don't know if Wes was going to be sent into the Ruins every time before he decided to throw that challenge. The only person that said that was going to happen was Wes and he made sure it did happen by acting the way he did.
So once again, JEK are being blamed for Wes's stupid decisions backfiring. The entire team disliked the hat idea and Wes should have accepted it.
[quote]Most people who where there can now admit that he did the best he could do based on the circumstances present at that challenge. He was a target[B][U][U] the minute[/U][/U][/B] he showed up, that's what you fail to see. Even after he decided to submit to their demands what did they do? They went for his gf (KellyAnne) and in doing so screwed up their best girl (Ev) who was playing fair.[/quote]
I don't see how any of that is relevant. Why does everyone keep bring up KA being sent in against Ev like it was the betrayal of all time? KA was on the other team. Yes, they probably had a bit of enjoyment n thinking Wes's girlfriend was going home... but in the end KA was a strong competitor on the other team that would have been good for the Champions if she wasn't there anymore. They knew that Evelyn would come back (and based on the show she put on in the actual elimination, it's pretty clear she would have if she wanted to).
And Wes did not have a target on his back the second he walked in. Nobody LIKED him when he came in. There's a difference. The target wasn't there until he threw that challenge.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168906]Wait, wait, wait... I seem to remember the entire team thinking that Wes's pulling names out of a hat idea was a stupid idea? It wasn't purely JEK calling the shots on that one. And you don't know if Wes was going to be sent into the Ruins every time before he decided to throw that challenge. The only person that said that was going to happen was Wes and he made sure it did happen by acting the way he did.
So once again, JEK are being blamed for Wes's stupid decisions backfiring. The entire team disliked the hat idea and Wes should have accepted it.
I don't see how any of that is relevant. Why does everyone keep bring up KA being sent in against Ev like it was the betrayal of all time? KA was on the other team. Yes, they probably had a bit of enjoyment n thinking Wes's girlfriend was going home... but in the end KA was a strong competitor on the other team that would have been good for the Champions if she wasn't there anymore. They knew that Evelyn would come back (and based on the show she put on in the actual elimination, it's pretty clear she would have if she wanted to).
And Wes did not have a target on his back the second he walked in. Nobody LIKED him when he came in. There's a difference. The target wasn't there until he threw that challenge.[/QUOTE]
1) It's not a secret that the masterminds there were JEK and the rest of them were just puppets. They were the ones who determined all the match-ups by making sure their alliance always had majority in the group of people nominated for the ruins. Also, you seem to forget that right before the second mission EVERYONE agreed to drawing names out of hat in return for Wes not throwing the mission. He held his own, helped them win and in return they sent him to the ruins again and as if that wasn't enough then went for his gf. You seem to be saying that playing well for Wes meant agreeing to be another puppet. Wasn't gonna happen. Blame him all you want for not "playing well" but I can see where he was coming from.
2) As far as I can remember the first time KA vs. Ev was brought up was when you said you didn't understand how is it that JEK plays the game more personal than anyone else. I for one thought of the KA vs. Ev match-up as the perfect example of that. You seem to justify all of JEK's actions as being simply strategic and this one I can't for the life of me see how it was strategic at all. They even said in their confessional that their motive was to upset Wes. That wasn't a strategical decision, it was a pure personal decision that affected someone who was playing well (Ev) and ironically came after Wes had agreed to submit to their demands and help them win money. Like someone already said, strategic and a win-win would've been the send in Katie against KA. To **** off your best girl was simply dumb.
And yes, Wes absolutely did have a target on his back the minute he walked in because he didn't confirm to anyone that he was doing the challenge. Did you not see the daillies where he walks in and the first thing Even does is confront him about not having told him that he was doing the challenge? He became a target the minute he walked in.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168908]1) It's not a secret that the masterminds there were JEK and the rest of them were just puppets. They were the ones who determined all the match-ups by making sure their alliance always had majority in the group of people nominated for the ruins. Also, you seem to forget that right before the second mission EVERYONE agreed to drawing names out of hat in return for Wes not throwing the mission. He held his own, helped them win and in return they sent him to the ruins again and as if that wasn't enough then went for his gf. You seem to be saying that playing well for Wes meant agreeing to be another puppet. Wasn't gonna happen. Blame him all you want for not "playing well" but I can see where he was coming from.[/quote]
Once again, anyone who agrees with JEK are puppets. I don't agree with that. If I were playing the challenge, I know I wouldn't want names being pulled out of a hat. And Derrick has never been a puppet. Darell has never been a puppet. They simply agreed.
And as for the second challenge... So what? They lied to Wes because they didn't want the mission thrown. I say good for them. Anything is fair game, at least in my opinion, when someone is threatening to destroy your chances. Wes came in like a punk and so they treated him like one.
[quote]2) As far as I can remember the first time KA vs. Ev was brought up was when you said you didn't understand how is it that JEK plays the game more personal than anyone else. I for one thought of the KA vs. Ev match-up as the perfect example of that. You seem to justify all of JEK's actions as being simply strategic and this one I can't for the life of me see how it was strategic at all. They even said in their confessional that their motive was to upset Wes. That wasn't a strategical decision, it was a pure personal decision that affected someone who was playing well (Ev) and ironically came after Wes had agreed to submit to their demands and help them win money. Like someone already said, strategic and a win-win would've been the send in Katie against KA. To **** off your best girl was simply dumb. [/quote]
I said that it wasn't purely strategic ("Sure, they probably had a bit of enjoyment in thinking Wes's girlfriend was going home"). I do see strategy in it (they thought KA would go home and Ev would come back), but it was personally motivated as well. And yeah, they paid the price for it in the end. The same way Wes is paying for all his stupid, personally motivated decisions.
[quote]And yes, Wes absolutely did have a target on his back the minute he walked in because he didn't confirm to anyone that he was doing the challenge. Did you not see the daillies where he walks in and the first thing Even does is confront him about not having told him that he was doing the challenge? He became a target the minute he walked in.[/QUOTE]
I saw the daily. But I still think he wasn't targeted to be sent home until he started throwing the missions. People disliked him, but the fact is he was still a strong competitor. If he was helping the team win instead of threatening to throw missions, I'm sure he would have stuck along longer. But I guess we'll never know.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168910]Once again, anyone who agrees with JEK are puppets. I don't agree with that. If I were playing the challenge, I know I wouldn't want names being pulled out of a hat. And Derrick has never been a puppet. Darell has never been a puppet. They simply agreed.
And as for the second challenge... So what? They lied to Wes because they didn't want the mission thrown. I say good for them. Anything is fair game, at least in my opinion, when someone is threatening to destroy your chances. Wes came in like a punk and so they treated him like one.
I said that it wasn't purely strategic ("Sure, they probably had a bit of enjoyment in thinking Wes's girlfriend was going home"). I do see strategy in it (they thought KA would go home and Ev would come back), but it was personally motivated as well. And yeah, they paid the price for it in the end. The same way Wes is paying for all his stupid, personally motivated decisions.
I saw the daily. But I still think he wasn't targeted to be sent home until he started throwing the missions. People disliked him, but the fact is he was still a strong competitor. If he was helping the team win instead of threatening to throw missions, I'm sure he would have stuck along longer. But I guess we'll never know.[/QUOTE]
1) Whether the rest of them can be classified as puppets or not in the end is irrelevant. Bottom line is that the masterminds of everything were JEK. I'm not making a big deal of the fact that they lied to him, I simply mentioned that in response to you saying that everyone was against drawing names out of hat when in fact ALL of them agreed to doing it. You can say that you wouldn't want names to be drawn out of hat either but I'm sure if you were in situation where you knew that you would be the one constantly being sent it, the drawing names out of hat would seem like a more fair system.
2) It wasn't purely strategic, and it wasn't strategic AT ALL. They even admitted themselves that the move was purely PERSONAL. What's strategic about ******* off your best girl? Had they not done that, people like Johanna, who was part of the alliance, would've made to the end because Ev made it clear that she had no problems going against KA when it needed to be done. They should've sent Katie against KA and get rid of a weak player and then eventually use Ev to get rid of the rest of the girls of the other team and protect Johanna. That decision wasn't just personal to some extent, it was completely personal and plain stupid. Ask Johanna today and she'll tell you the same thing I just told u.
3) If you saw the daily and Evan's confessional you should know that Evan made it clear to the alliance that they couldn't trust Wes in the game because he didn't tell them in advance that he was doing the challenge. Clearly he was a target the minute he walked in because a)he's a top dog b) who didn't tell them in advance that he was doing the challenge c) who is coming in with his gf who at the time was Johnny's enemy d) whose ex-gf hooked up with Kenny, one of the key members of the alliance. All he had to do under those circumstances to become a target was walk in and that's all he did before they made him a target. If you saw the confessionals, daillies and later interviews you would know all this. I don't understand how can you say that if he had helped his team win he would've stuck longer when he only tried to throw ONE MISSION, after that did nothing by try to help his team win and yet they kept sending him in.
[QUOTE=Dannyboy;168920]1) Whether the rest of them can be classified as puppets or not in the end is irrelevant. Bottom line is that the masterminds of everything were JEK. I'm not making a big deal of the fact that they lied to him, I simply mentioned that in response to you saying that everyone was against drawing names out of hat when in fact ALL of them agreed to doing it. You can say that you wouldn't want names to be drawn out of hat either but I'm sure if you were in situation where you knew that you would be the one constantly being sent it, the drawing names out of hat would seem like a more fair system.
2) It wasn't purely strategic, and it wasn't strategic AT ALL. They even admitted themselves that the move was purely PERSONAL. What's strategic about ******* off your best girl? Had they not done that, people like Johanna, who was part of the alliance, would've made to the end because Ev made it clear that she had no problems going against KA when it needed to be done. They should've sent Katie against KA and get rid of a weak player and then eventually use Ev to get rid of the rest of the girls of the other team and protect Johanna. That decision wasn't just personal to some extent, it was completely personal and plain stupid. Ask Johanna today and she'll tell you the same thing I just told u.
3) If you saw the daily and Evan's confessional you should know that Evan made it clear to the alliance that they couldn't trust Wes in the game because he didn't tell them in advance that he was doing the challenge. Clearly he was a target the minute he walked in because a)he's a top dog b) who didn't tell them in advance that he was doing the challenge c) who is coming in with his gf who at the time was Johnny's enemy d) whose ex-gf hooked up with Kenny, one of the key members of the alliance. All he had to do under those circumstances to become a target was walk in and that's all he did before they made him a target. If you saw the confessionals, daillies and later interviews you would know all this. I don't understand how can you say that if he had helped his team win he would've stuck longer when he only tried to throw ONE MISSION, after that did nothing by try to help his team win and yet they kept sending him in.[/QUOTE]
I disagree that it wasn't strategic at all. It was just as strategic as sending Kenny in against Sarah. And lets face it, all the power players in Wes's alliance are personally motivated. Ev is just trying to get rid of Kenny because she hates him.
And we'll never see eye to eye on the master minds thing. I'm not going to hold it against KEJ that they run the game. If they know how to play the game... they know how to play the game. That's not something to dislike a player for. At least IMO.
[QUOTE=nellygrl;168929]I disagree that it wasn't strategic at all. It was just as strategic as sending Kenny in against Sarah. And lets face it, all the power players in Wes's alliance are personally motivated. Ev is just trying to get rid of Kenny because she hates him.
And we'll never see eye to eye on the master minds thing. I'm not going to hold it against KEJ that they run the game. If they know how to play the game... they know how to play the game. That's not something to dislike a player for. At least IMO.[/QUOTE]
You'll see what you want to see. Obviously there are personal vendettas but it was a good strategic move to keep their numbers and send home a good team.
[QUOTE=FM-DIAF;168940]You'll see what you want to see. Obviously there are personal vendettas but it was a good strategic move to keep their numbers and send home a good team.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's clear that everyone in the game has at some point made a movie that was personally motivated, but Wes definitely takes the cake in that area.
And I guess we'll both see what we want to see in this area. You're a Wes supporter... I support JEK. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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