[quote=Binary Solo;52385]Personally I find it interesting that people feel the need to generalize about a whole random group of anonymous internet people and their so called hate for one person or another. The implication of that generalization being that if there is a general agreement about one character, than obviously all those in agreement are mindless sheep or engaging in a mob mentality. We all watch this show seperately and I assume we all have the brain power to formulate our own opinions, sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't. Often times the fact that certain cast members take it upon themselves to come on here and provide more context does help to shape opinions or endear certain cast members above others. But if you like a person than by all means, express that and dare to be okay with the fact that there may be a few or many people who disagree with you. [/quote]
Hey! Thanks for replying. Let me take a second to point out I in no way meant to insinuate that all of vevmo was mindless sheep who went along with the "herd", that was never my intention. All I was saying is that it just seems that certain castmembers are villified on this board and that's that, nothing can be done. Any contrary POVs about these castmembers are met with sarcasm and (what seems to me) disdain. I don't care but the fact that "he who shall not be named" cannot be referred to by his first name is a great example. I still don't understand why Vevmo hates "he who shall not be named", lol, but that is actually besides the point. Anyway, I understand that people won't always agree with me and that we are all entitled to our opinions. I'm just sharing mine. :)
[quote=Binary Solo;52385]This whole "I have to root for this person because they're an underdog no matter how *********** they may act" to me is just a lame argument and I have no problem calling it out as such. It's almost as weak as the whole gladiator mentality of liking someone who purposefully starts trouble simply because they entertain you on an animalistic level- no matter how offensive, spiteful, sexist, racist and ignorant they may show themselves to be in the process. But that is just my humble opinion- some of us just want to be entertained, some of us don't strive to be entertained at all costs and the rainbow of opinions are a reflection of that. If you like JD, then by all means, like JD. Own that and stand on it as opposed to clothing it under the guise of "defending" him as though he's some illiterate child who needs protecting or victim of "hating". If you get called out about it, than you should have the mind to defend your postion and not care whether the whole world or not a single soul agrees with you.[/quote]Is this aimed at me? I never tried to protect or defend him...........I simply said that I enjoy him and think he's a good addition to the cast. I will be the first to admit that Real World is simply a form of entertainment for me and honestly JD brings on the entertainment therefor I enjoy his presence on the show. It has nothing to do with him being an underdog NOR because I feel I need to defend him, he simply entertains me so I'm glad he's on this season. I see a ton of people hating on him so I figured I'd just throw out a different opinion. :)
[quote=V1man;52375]Welcome from lurker status, Jayden. There is no similarity between the two people you identify. You are very welcome to support JD here. Others do; many don't. The other person you mention simply can't be discussed here. Period.
I get that you find JD entertaining (although he barely appears in Ep 9 which is what THIS thread is about). Does it disturb you at all that the entertainment value you find in him may be derived by him at the expense of others in the cast? Do you see a difference between JD's on-camera exploits and Chet's? Personally, I had high hopes for both in early January.[/quote]But who DOESNT derive entertainment at the expense of other castmembers? Look to any RW or challenge and you can say the same for tons of castmembers. Take for instance Coral and Veronica who are arguably two of the most well known and notorious castmembers......was their popularity and entertainment value not largely at the expense of other castmembers such as Katie, Mike, Stephen, Holly, etc who they were rude to and exploited???? It just seems like JD is villified all around cause the people from his season who dislike him post here, whereas you all have no problem liking Coral who does the same thing on a much larger scale. I just don't see why JD is being hated and villified when he has done NOTHING different than a ton of other people who are loved on this board. Seems like a double standard. And once again, not trying to fight with anybody, just sharing my opinion. :)
[QUOTE=Jayden;52406]But who DOESNT derive entertainment at the expense of other castmembers? Look to any RW or challenge and you can say the same for tons of castmembers. Take for instance Coral and Veronica who are arguably two of the most well known and notorious castmembers......was their popularity and entertainment value not largely at the expense of other castmembers such as Katie, Mike, Stephen, Holly, etc who they were rude to and exploited???? It just seems like JD is villified all around cause the people from his season who dislike him post here, whereas you all have no problem liking Coral who does the same thing on a much larger scale. I just don't see why JD is being hated and villified when he has done NOTHING different than a ton of other people who are loved on this board. Seems like a double standard. And once again, not trying to fight with anybody, just sharing my opinion. :)[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately. the comparison you are making is "apples and oranges." The conflict and trash-talking has become a near essential part of the game play on MTV's challenges -- agreed (although that kind of play always bores me because it is right out of high school.) My reference point for the question is The Real World. Before the season began, the chairman of Bunim/Murray Productions was tell me and others that this season would be different, a season of substance and relevance. There are only about three weeks of the show left and I've not seen much substance as compared to pranks, veiled racism, and misplaced attempts at humor.
[quote=Jayden;52402]Hey! Thanks for replying. Let me take a second to point out I in no way meant to insinuate that all of vevmo was mindless sheep who went along with the "herd", that was never my intention. All I was saying is that it just seems that certain castmembers are villified on this board and that's that, nothing can be done. Any contrary POVs about these castmembers are met with sarcasm and (what seems to me) disdain. I don't care but the fact that "he who shall not be named" cannot be referred to by his first name is a great example. I still don't understand why Vevmo hates "he who shall not be named", lol, but that is actually besides the point. Anyway, I understand that people won't always agree with me and that we are all entitled to our opinions. I'm just sharing mine. :)
Is this aimed at me? I never tried to protect or defend him...........I simply said that I enjoy him and think he's a good addition to the cast. I will be the first to admit that Real World is simply a form of entertainment for me and honestly JD brings on the entertainment therefor I enjoy his presence on the show. It has nothing to do with him being an underdog NOR because I feel I need to defend him, he simply entertains me so I'm glad he's on this season. I see a ton of people hating on him so I figured I'd just throw out a different opinion. :)[/quote]
Hiya Jayden! I could be wrong but he who must not be named is called such because of his wishes that he not be named on the board, at least that's the impression I get. The first part about the mindless sheep was directly and indirectly related to your comments because that was the impression I got so thanks for clarifying. I agree that people are entitled to their opinions, I just have a pet peeve about people prephasing them with:
[I]"you people think. . ." "everyone else believes. . ." "I'm probably going to **** people off by saying. .[/I] [I]." "I'm the only one. . ."[/I] [I]"the board as a whole. . ."[/I]
instead of simply stating [I]"I think. . ." "I'm saying. . ."[/I] [I]"I believe. . ."[/I]
Sweeping generalizations are almost always dangerous to make because they are usually inaccurate and the language itself creates an adversarial, defensive tone- which to me is different than simply disagreeing and having a spirited debate (something I'm all for).
The second part wasn't really directed towards you, I used your quote as a jumping off point, but it was an observation again, not directly related to your particular comment. It was more a response to several comments I've seen come up where people have said things along the lines of "I enjoy that he ****** people off, I think that's cool." I just have a low tolerance for defending or supporting instances of racism, zenophobia, ignorance, sexism or what have you simply because it makes for "good" entertainment value. I have zero problem hating on that. Also when people seem to feel the need to mindlessly defend that type of ignorance just for the sake of defending it with no legitmate purpose - the classic rebel without a cause syndrome, it's in my opinon weak. I don't fault anyone for having an opinion, I just think that if you are going to share it be prepared to possibly get called out on it.
[QUOTE=V1man;52080]The Internet is a dichotomy. It is egalitarian and yet sinister in that its presumptive equality and anonymity coexist along side the stratification of content and the perceived value over time of those with whom we interact.
I'd bore all of you more with this discourse that is fundamentally about Maslow, Hertzberg and Kant, but I'm at the divergence of two roads in a yellow wood. One leads onward toward more thoughts on the wonderful simplicity of unsupported opinion, while the other leads to a bottle of 50 yr old single malt scotch. The path ahead is clear...[/QUOTE]
I feel that during its infant stages the Internet was a bit of a dichotomy but think that, especially within the past decade, it has evolved into more of a Trichotomy. The naive egalitarian ideals of what information technology and communications has been and could be were driven underground years ago. To say that the Internet is sinister is a fallacy; the Internet merely "is", our applications of it are what determines its nature. Though perhaps my adoration for Istigkeit is showing.
When I was originally applying to be on the show I was asked to summarize my political beliefs. I wrote that New York is like Charlemagne, and I truly believe that. Our Western empire, much like the Romans, has entered the state where that mindless entertainment is all we crave; "[I]panem et circenses[/I]", Bread and Circuses. Give us food and give us entertainment and we will dutifully submit to thee. No one (read: general populace) wants a story they have to think about, it's why such token characters are usually cast on [U][B]The Real World[/B][/U], et al. Appealing to the animalistic tendencies of the masses is all we can ever hope to do; it is all we can ever hope to become. Each of us alumni, every one of us, are mere puppets in a play used to subjugate the masses.
In that we all have erred. In that we all have sinned...
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;52418]I feel that during its infant stages the Internet was a bit of a dichotomy but think that, especially within the past decade, it has evolved into more of a Trichotomy. The naive egalitarian ideals of what information technology and communications has been and could be were driven underground years ago. To say that the Internet is sinister is a fallacy; the Internet merely "is", our applications of it are what determines its nature. Though perhaps my adoration for Istigkeit is showing.
When I was originally applying to be on the show I was asked to summarize my political beliefs. I wrote that New York is like Charlemagne, and I truly believe that. Our Western empire, much like the Romans, has entered the state where that mindless entertainment is all we crave; "[I]panem et circenses[/I]", Bread and Circuses. Give us food and give us entertainment and we will dutifully submit to thee. No one (read: general populace) wants a story they have to think about, it's why such token characters are usually cast on [U][B]The Real World[/B][/U], et al. Appealing to the animalistic tendencies of the masses is all we can ever hope to do; it is all we can ever hope to become. Each of us alumni, every one of us, are mere puppets in a play used to subjugate the masses.
In that we all have erred. In that we all have sinned...[/QUOTE]
I never want to drink absinthe with you. It could lead to the downfall of Western Civilization -- or a modern twist on the Algonquin Round Table :biggrin:
[QUOTE=V1man;52420]I never want to drink absinthe with you. It could lead to the downfall of Western Civilization -- or a modern twist on the Algonquin Round Table :biggrin:[/QUOTE]
Aww, now what am I going to do with that 20 year aged bottle of Czech wyrmwood absinthe? I think that the resulting conversation from that discussion would cause Western Capitalism to implode upon itself or a fully functional global socialist society. And Algonquin? I hardly even knew 'em!
[QUOTE=k8mnstr;52421]Aww, now what am I going to do with that 20 year aged bottle of Czech wyrmwood absinthe? I think that the resulting conversation from that discussion would cause Western Capitalism to implode upon itself or a fully functional global socialist society. And Alqgonquin? I hardly even knew 'em![/QUOTE]
I'm a Dorothy Parker fan (and member of the Dorthy Parker Society) and fully with the "Sacco and Vanzetti were innocent" group. I hope you had a chance to see the hotel while you were in NY. Perhaps on your next visit? ;)
[SIZE="1"][QUOTE]That would be a good thing for them to cut on my tombstone: Wherever she went, including here, it was against her better judgment.
Dorothy Parker, 'But the One on the Right,' in New Yorker, 1929[/QUOTE][/SIZE]
[quote=Jayden;52406]But who DOESNT derive entertainment at the expense of other castmembers? Look to any RW or challenge and you can say the same for tons of castmembers. Take for instance Coral and Veronica who are arguably two of the most well known and notorious castmembers......was their popularity and entertainment value not largely at the expense of other castmembers such as Katie, Mike, Stephen, Holly, etc who they were rude to and exploited???? It just seems like JD is villified all around cause the people from his season who dislike him post here, whereas you all have no problem liking Coral who does the same thing on a much larger scale. I just don't see why JD is being hated and villified when he has done NOTHING different than a ton of other people who are loved on this board. Seems like a double standard. And once again, not trying to fight with anybody, just sharing my opinion. :)[/quote]
Welcome.
While I can understand your point of view and to some extent agree with it, I must say that how a cast member is perceived by one person can differ from how they are perceived by another person. People have different aspects of their personalities and behaviors and certain aspects shine to certain people and might repel others.
I like some cast members that have behaved negatively at some point or another just like others have, but the cast members I like have something to them that stands out to me or shines and it can make me like better than other cast members that have behaved similarly. Or maybe I just find some cast members more entertaining or better people than others.
In the examples you used, I like Coral and I find Veronica entertaining. Coral I find to sometimes be abrasive and too much at times, but I have seen other sides of her that I really liked, have agreed with her on certain things (i.e. Mike's insensitive comments in her season) and I find her entertaining. Veronica - I root against her usually and find a lot of things she's done as shady and wrong, but I do think she has added something to the shows. It's a little more difficult to use these two because they have been on TV for years and we've gotten to see a lot more of them and different sides of them. They have been in the villain and victim roles at different points. A lot of people like them and a lot of people dislike or hate them. Their original seasons have been off the air for years, and they haven't been on air for a while. But they were disliked during their original seasons by people, yes.
With JD there hasn't been a lot of him shown, and much of what has been shown of him has been negative IMO. I personally don't compare or view disliking someone (who offends you or dislikes you back or whatever) and making rude comments about them, the same as going off on a crazy rant about immigrants, putting a rat in people's beds, and breaking and destroying property as intimidation to get your way as the same thing or at the same level (though it's all negative). JD was also the first person on this season to really do something offensive on a big scale to me. I personally feel he has done something different than a ton of other people who are loved from the shows. But I don't hate him or dislike him or find him the worst cast member ever (I don't even think "he" from last season was as bad as a lot of people do here). However, you may find some of the things he's done as acceptable or see a good side to him and that's what might make him shine to you. And that's your perspective. Different perspectives can make things interesting sometimes.
[quote=RW561015;52564]With JD there hasn't been a lot of him shown, and much of what has been shown of him has been negative IMO. I personally don't compare or view disliking someone (who offends you or dislikes you back or whatever) and making rude comments about them, the same as going off on a crazy rant about immigrants, putting a rat in people's beds, and breaking and destroying property as intimidation to get your way as the same thing or at the same level (though it's all negative). JD was also the first person on this season to really do something offensive on a big scale to me. I personally feel he has done something different than a ton of other people who are loved from the shows. But I don't hate him or dislike him or find him the worst cast member ever (I don't even think "he" from last season was as bad as a lot of people do here). However, you may find some of the things he's done as acceptable or see a good side to him and that's what might make him shine to you. And that's your perspective. Different perspectives can make things interesting sometimes.[/quote]
Maybe I'm in the minority but I think there are some positive sides to JD's personality. He has displayed a caring nature at times and really seems like a great listener. It seemed to me that he did a lot of the things (backtalking, rat escapade, etc.) to fit in with the guys in the house. However, it also seems like he did those things because he felt betrayed or ignored by the girls in the house - especially Sarah who he tried to be close to. I think he has to potential to become a better person if he would get past his insecurities and the revenge MO and focus on being the friend that he has shown himself to be.
[QUOTE=Debut Album;52647]Woah wait a second.
Where did all of this JD talk come from? He was barely in this episode.[/QUOTE]
It would be better placed in the JD thread.
There will be a new episode thread tomorrow anyway, and we can start all over again. :)
[quote=V1man;52648]It would be better placed in the JD thread.
There will be a new episode thread tomorrow anyway, and we can start all over again. :)[/quote]
Oh Happy day!
[QUOTE=El Rey;51865]Like others have said it was nice to see a "calm" episode this week vs the drama of the last couple episodes.
Baya - great to see you both on the show on on the boards! I have to say that you are a breath of fresh air. You are always smiling, happy and energetic and I get the feeling those traits are infectious to other folks around you. Throughout the years of watching any reality show those most level headed, reasonable and drama free get the short end of the stick screen time wise and as much as I love seeing you on screen that is a good thing! I know Katelynn said that production would badger you in asking if you wanted to go home and I am curious to know was it in the snarky, rhetorical way that a parent would scold a chills and say "Do you want to be grounded? Do you want to go to your room?" or was it asked with sincerity, as if to ask if you weren't into the whole experience? Just curious.
As far as Chet I could psycho-analyze like some have already done but to me his teasing of Katelynn made me think that he's just one of those people who don't have an off switch and don't know when somethings not funny anymore. Its a trait of immaturity but I don't see him as a bully or doing it maliciously.[/QUOTE]
It only happened once and I don't want to touch on this too much, but it definitely wasn't because they thought I wanted to leave if you can pick up what i'm putting down... ha
[quote=Hugs4MT;51660]Baya, how do you pronounce your last name? is it Italian?[/quote]
It is Italian! It is pronounced vochay. If you check out my myspace...[URL="http://www.myspace.com/djbayavoce"]DJ Baya Voce on MySpace[/URL] you hear me say it on my DJ demo :)
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