Real World Brooklyn: Ep. 8 - Discussion

[quote=Buck05;50237]Anyone else notice how quickly it took Sarah to clean Katelynn's dishes? OBVIOUSLY it was such a huge mess. (insert eye roll here). I mean, I understand what the guys were trying to say, but I just really have a hard time believing between the four men that no dishes were ever left out. I really find that hard to believe.[/quote] I know. The guys are acting as though they're the cleanest people in the entire world. Who are they to sit there and cast judgment on the girls behavior? Hmm, the last time I checked, the guys were not the final authority on anything. The girls should have told the guys to ***k off and clean up the dishes if it was such a grave concern to them.

We've heard the guys' viewpoint on the episode through Scott's post and through After World on MTV.com. I'm very very interested in what Katelyn, Devyn, Baya, or Sarah has to say about Episode 8. I look forward to any post by any of them.

[quote=trees12;50232]I think Sarah totally got a bad rap, she is a vey sweet girl. She just got tired of JD's antics and decided to follow Devyn's advice. Which was to stop caring in regards to what JD thinks of her.[/quote] I think she is very sweet as well, from what little I've seen of her, and that's why it's so surprising to me that Ryan and Chet have a lot of issues with her. JD didn't cause them to have problems with her, from what I've seen. Ryan and Chet, from very early on (in the dailies), talked about Sarah and how much they disliked how she tries to be loving and open-minded to everyone. And JD making a big deal of her laughing at him during a conversation in which she was upset and on the [I][U][B]opposing[/B][/U][/I] side of the argument is kind of odd to me. I'm not saying this is actually the case, but it almost seems like he has been offended by the fact that the others call him out on being rude and betraying them (i.e. his seemingly angry immigrant rant, him putting Angelique Ali above Kate and Devyn, him telling details about Kate being trasgendered), so he is trying to find small issues with the way they act towards them and he tries to blow those up. Or perhaps he was offended that she took Devyn's side on the college dropout thing. But perhaps he is really offended by Sarah laughing at him - maybe he has issues with feeling that people don't take him seriously. I do think Sarah just stopped caring - I agree that it seemed to happen after her confessional with Devyn. But if JD had such a problem with Sarah and wanted to seriously work it out, putting a rat in her bed is not a good solution. I don't think smashing tables and yanking phones are, either. That would make me upset, scared, and wanting to keep a further distance. I do think he cares about his roommates and wants to have good relationships with them, but I think some of them are just fed up with him and don't want to work on things anymore. And if someone doesn't want to do that, you can't force them. You can try to get them to talk to you, but if they don't want to, they don't want to, and they don't have to.

[quote=rwny4ever;50241]its called frustration - makes you do things like that if you get pushed enough[/quote] Yeah, but there is something called self control. JD chose to act on his frustrations in a juvenile manner instead of handling things like an adult. He constantly claims to be so mature, but this was far from a mature display of behavior. He's a walking contradiction.

[quote=RW561015;50258]I think she is very sweet as well, from what little I've seen of her, and that's why it's so surprising to me that Ryan and Chet have a lot of issues with her. JD didn't cause them to have problems with her, from what I've seen. Ryan and Chet, from very early on (in the dailies), talked about Sarah and how much they disliked how she tries to be loving and open-minded to everyone. And JD making a big deal of her laughing at him during a conversation in which she was upset and on the [I][U][B]opposing[/B][/U][/I] side of the argument is kind of odd to me. I'm not saying this is actually the case, but it almost seems like he has been offended by the fact that the others call him out on being rude and betraying them (i.e. his seemingly angry immigrant rant, him putting Angelique Ali above Kate and Devyn, him telling details about Kate being trasgendered), so he is trying to find small issues with the way they act towards them and he tries to blow those up. Or perhaps he was offended that she took Devyn's side on the college dropout thing. But perhaps he is really offended by Sarah laughing at him - maybe he has issues with feeling that people don't take him seriously. I do think Sarah just stopped caring - I agree that it seemed to happen after her confessional with Devyn. But if JD had such a problem with Sarah and wanted to seriously work it out, putting a rat in her bed is not a good solution. I don't think smashing tables and yanking phones are, either. That would make me upset, scared, and wanting to keep a further distance. I do think he cares about his roommates and wants to have good relationships with them, but I think some of them are just fed up with him and don't want to work on things anymore. And if someone doesn't want to do that, you can't force them. You can try to get them to talk to you, but if they don't want to, they don't want to, and they don't have to.[/quote] Holy ****... amen. I didn't think I could ever agree with someone more haha. Well put.

[quote=Ag2422001;50260]Yeah, but there is something called self control. JD chose to act on his frustrations in a juvenile manner instead of handling things like an adult. He constantly claims to be so mature, but this was far from a mature display of behavior. He's a walking contradiction.[/quote] I saw nothing immature about his reaction - it was pure frustration because the girls can be hard headed at times - they just did not listen or they would yell when the guys tried to have a civilized conversation.

JD just needs to stop playing the victim and analyze his own behavior for a change. He's definitely not going to find that family connection he's looking for if he continues to behave like this. Who would want to associate with a backstabbing, juvenile, condescending, attention starved person like JD?

[quote=rwny4ever;50264]I saw nothing immature about his reaction - it was pure frustration because the girls can be hard headed at times - they just did not listen or they would yell when the guys tried to have a civilized conversation.[/quote] So throwing a telephone into the water or smashing a table isn't immature? That's something a 12 year old throwing a temper tandrum would do, not a 22 year old young man.

[quote=Ag2422001;50267]So throwing a telephone into the water or smashing a table isn't immature? That's something a 12 year old throwing a temper tandrum would do, not a 22 year old young man.[/quote] Well, I'm a 26 year old man, and if I were that frustrated (and I would have been living with those girls) then I would have thrown a lot more than the phone into the water. It's better than hitting a roommate (i.e. Trisha and CT) isnt it???

[QUOTE=rwny4ever;50249]V1 seriously that is borderline slander - I know you don't like him but I really don't think that is necessary[/QUOTE] Given my profession, I can assure you that truth is the ultimate defense against libel. (It's not slander because slander is oral expression). I don't intend to debate the subject of defamation with you unless you would like to do it in a courtroom. "Reasons that transcend any edit" is based on factual information provided to me privately by other cast members. Whether or not you think something I write is unnecessary is likely to draw the same reaction that Sarah gave JD in this episode. PS... When a RW production crew member describes JD to a visitor to the house as probably "the worst cast member in the history of the show," I take note.

[quote=RW561015;50258]I think she is very sweet as well, from what little I've seen of her, and that's why it's so surprising to me that Ryan and Chet have a lot of issues with her. JD didn't cause them to have problems with her, from what I've seen. Ryan and Chet, from very early on (in the dailies), talked about Sarah and how much they disliked how she tries to be loving and open-minded to everyone. And JD making a big deal of her laughing at him during a conversation in which she was upset and on the [I][U][B]opposing[/B][/U][/I] side of the argument is kind of odd to me. I'm not saying this is actually the case, but it almost seems like he has been offended by the fact that the others call him out on being rude and betraying them (i.e. his seemingly angry immigrant rant, him putting Angelique Ali above Kate and Devyn, him telling details about Kate being trasgendered), so he is trying to find small issues with the way they act towards them and he tries to blow those up. Or perhaps he was offended that she took Devyn's side on the college dropout thing. But perhaps he is really offended by Sarah laughing at him - maybe he has issues with feeling that people don't take him seriously. I do think Sarah just stopped caring - I agree that it seemed to happen after her confessional with Devyn. But if JD had such a problem with Sarah and wanted to seriously work it out, putting a rat in her bed is not a good solution. I don't think smashing tables and yanking phones are, either. That would make me upset, scared, and wanting to keep a further distance. I do think he cares about his roommates and wants to have good relationships with them, but I think some of them are just fed up with him and don't want to work on things anymore. And if someone doesn't want to do that, you can't force them. You can try to get them to talk to you, but if they don't want to, they don't want to, and they don't have to.[/quote] Amen Rw561015, you said it perfectly! I like Chet alot too, so I was very disapointed to see the ways he has acted towards Sara in certain situations. However, I think Chet and Sarah are now friends and have settled most of their disagreements. Ryan is the one still not willing to work things out with Sara and see the good in her. Everytime Sarah tried to confront JD and work things out. He would just put Sarah down or cut her off and Say Sarah's always right and walk away rudely. On top of that she knew what he did to Devyn and Katelyn. Devyn told her to move on and don't worry about him. She took note of JD's negativity towards the girls including herself and took Devyn's advice and ran with it. I commend Sarah for holding her head up high and not letting it bother her anymore.

[QUOTE=Buck05;50256]We've heard the guys' viewpoint on the episode through Scott's post and through After World on MTV.com. I'm very very interested in what Katelyn, Devyn, Baya, or Sarah has to say about Episode 8. I look forward to any post by any of them.[/QUOTE] I'm informed that we may hear from one of the women tomorrow.

I personally was really annoyed with how Sarah thought it was okay to clean up after the others and Kate, Devyn act like it's completely fine. (Sarah happens to be my favorite!) I have to say though, that having roommates before, this episode really made me boil up inside about the whole 'clean' issue. I can't stand living with messy people after the stuff I've seen.

[quote=V1man;50270]Given my profession, I can assure you that truth is the ultimate defense against libel. (It's not slander because slander is oral expression). I don't intend to debate the subject of defamation with you unless you would like to do it in a courtroom. "Reasons that transcend any edit" is based on factual information provided to me privately by other cast members. Whether or not you think something I write is unnecessary is likely to draw the same reaction that Sarah gave JD in this episode. PS... When a RW production crew member describes JD to a visitor to the house as probably "the worst cast member in the history of the show" I take note.[/quote] Just think of it this way, the rules say we are not to offend each other correct? Well those of us who are JD fans (speaking for myself not others) are offended by some of the things you say about him. That's all I'm trying to say.

[QUOTE=rwny4ever;50274]just think of it this way - the rules say we are not to offend each other correct? Well those of us who are JD fans (speaking for myself not others) are offended by some of the things you say about him - thats all I'm trying to say.[/QUOTE] You are protected from personal attack by me or anyone else. That is all. If JD came here with a different picture of himself, I might find his argument compelling. As it is, I have only the views and information from those who know him to rely upon. Two of my very good friends in the RR/RW community like him personally, and I respect their views, but neither has heard the things I have from other cast members. I'm sorry you are offended. There is really nothing I can do about that. I believe my opinions also largely reflect the views of other moderators who follow the show.

Watch the "After Show" with the guys (excluding JD) None of them like Sarah and constantly say they're glad we got to see her true side, saying shes been like this for the past 2 1/2 months... Hmmm, I'm starting to think differently about Sarah after this episode and the After Show.

[quote=jhl182;50280]Watch the "After Show" with the guys (excluding JD) None of them like Sarah and constantly say they're glad we got to see her true side, saying shes been like this for the past 2 1/2 months... Hmmm, I'm starting to think differently about Sarah after this episode and the After Show..[/quote] [U][B]Ryan [/B][/U]said that on the aftershow the other two didn't say they don't like Sarah. What do you now think of Sarah?

[quote=Zachary;50206]^I doubt that would happen. I mean that's why they have College Hill but that would be interesting.[/quote] I thought about that after I typed what I did. I still think it would be neat. College Hill is on BET - though MTV is owned by the same company, it's a different station, and both of those stations have some copycat shows. I think if BMP/MTV did a RW in which they allowed the cast members to still do college, the feel of the show would still be different from College Hill. I am glad we may get to hear from one of the women. Though I did agree with the guys on the basic issue of cleaning the house they all share and putting gas in the cars they all share, I feel the guys got to have their viewpoint on the girls across during the last Aftershow. I also feel the episode dealt more with the guys' feeling towards the girls, and that the guys got a little lucky last week with a lot of the trash talking they did in the dailies being left out the main show. Sarah and Baya did Afterworld last week, but from what I saw of it they kept it nice. I kind of feel like I've heard a lot from some of the guys on the dailies and when some of them get together and talk they really say some mean things about the girls - much meaner than I feel the girls talk about them. So I'd be interested in having the girls to balance out things. I think things have been in the guys' favor a little more than the girls. trees and Buck, I have also agreed with some of the stuff you have said tonight.

[quote=V1man;50279]You are protected from personal attack by me or anyone else. That is all. If JD had the courage to come here and present a different picture of himself, I might find his argument compelling. As it is, I have only the views and information from those who know him to rely upon. Two of my very good friends in the RR/RW community like him personally, and I respect their views, but neither has heard the things I have from other cast members. I'm sorry you are offended. There is really nothing I can do about that. I believe my opinions also largely reflect the views of other moderators who follow the show.[/quote] I don't know if "courage" is the best of word choices - at the end of the day, JD really owes us nothing. In fact, none of the cast does - they all know what they signed up for and should come to expect to be judged for their portrayal on television, fair or not. Are we lucky that we do get the inside scoop from some castmembers who choose to post on this site? Yes. But to imply that JD (and Chet and Ryan) not taking up an invitation to participate in this forum to discuss episodes is due to a lack of courage is unfair. They have decided to reflect on their experiences and reveal the behind-the-scenes reasons for their decisions in the house through other forms of media, be it print interviews or aftershows, rather than on this forum. They owe us nothing - they really only owe it to themselves to appreciate and reflect on their experience in the house. The unfortunate thing is that while the Real World for a lot of us is just a way to shoot the shit and pass the time, for them it is their real life lived. In addition, we receive a highly edited view of many months of their lives. If they feel that they would rather not participate in on-line forum discussions regarding episodes that are more likely than not highly skewed to their disfavor then that that is their prerogative.

Chet says that all of the problems revolved around Sarah, and Ryan says that they all didn't get along with her. Ryan clearly says he still doesn't get along with her because of her attitude and how she tries to be "Ms. Perfect".

[QUOTE=canilicula;50284]I don't know if "courage" is the best of word choices - at the end of the day, JD really owes us nothing. In fact, none of the cast does - they all know what they signed up for and should come to expect to be judged for their portrayal on television, fair or not. Are we lucky that we do get the inside scoop from some castmembers who choose to post on this site? Yes. But to imply that JD (and Chet and Ryan) not taking up an invitation to participate in this forum to discuss episodes is due to a lack of courage is unfair. They owe us nothing - they really only owe it to themselves to appreciate and reflect on their experience in the house. The unfortunate thing is that while the Real World for a lot of us is just a way to shoot the shit and pass the time, for them it is their real life lived. In addition, we receive a highly edited view of many months of their lives. If they feel that they would rather not participate in discussions regarding episodes that are more likely than not highly skewed to their disfavor then that that is their prerogative.[/QUOTE] Fair comments. I've edited my original comment to be less suggestive that he lacks courage. Maybe he just is not comfortable walking on ground where Katelynn openly has such negativity toward him.

[quote=jhl182;50285]Chet says that all of the problems revolved around Sarah, and Ryan says that they all didn't get along with her. Ryan clearly says he still doesn't get along with her because of her attitude and how she tries to be "Ms. Perfect."[/quote] I think Chet comment was taken somewhat out of context. I choose to take his comment meaning Sarah was part of the problems not necessarily all of them. Ryan is the one who made it loud and clear he dosen't get along with her and still doesn't. Scott is confusing. On the aftershow earlier this season, he said out of the guys he got along with Sarah the best, yet here he just goes along with things.

[quote=V1man;50286]Fair comments. I've edited my original comment to be less suggestive that he lacks courage. Maybe he just is not comfortable walking on ground where Katelynn openly has such negativity toward him.[/quote] She does rightfully so, IMO.

[quote=jhl182;50285]chet says that all of the problems revolved around sarah and ryan says that they all didnt get along with her. Ryan clearly says he still doesnt get along with her because of her attitude and how she tries to be "ms. perfect".[/quote] Yeah they clearly haven't liked her much on the show since early on. But that was Ryan speaking, right? Maybe he is the one with the issues with her still. Maybe Chet has resolved some of those feelings about Sarah, or maybe he doesn't feel as strongly towards Sarah as Ryan does. In terms of this episode "truly" showing how Sarah is, I don't really think Sarah did anything wrong, I think instead Ryan just doesn't like her personality. The way she behaved tonight concerning JD was her feelings towards him. They had issues and she just decided she didn't get along with him and didn't want to deal with him. Ryan, on the other hand, doesn't like Sarah and plays a prank on her. He also calls her out on not trying to like them, but he doesn't like her. And if she wanted the wash the other girls dishes and didn't mind, why does it have to be the guys' business? They could still have spoken with Devyn and Katelynn if they thought they should clean more.

[quote=trees12;50290]I think Chet comment was taken somewhat out of context. I choose to take his comment meaning Sarah was part of the problems not necessarily all of them. Ryan is the one who made it loud and clear he dosen't get along with her and still dosen't. Scott is confusing. On the aftershow earlier this season he said out of the guys he got along with Sarah the best, yet here he just goes along with things.[/quote] Hmmmm Scott is confusing...well, i can't wait till the reunion now! lol. I hope i can go to one since i live in NYC.

[quote=rwny4ever;50264]I saw nothing immature about his reaction - it was pure frustration because the girls can be hard headed at times - they just did not listen or they would yell when the guys tried to have a civilized conversation.[/quote] I totally disagree with you. He was aware of his "latin temper" and kept constantly warning the men and even threatened Baya about while driving. Since he is oh so mighty claiming he's the "most confident" of all in the house, why then can he not control his primary problem and gave in to Sarah? JD aka the person with the "highest self esteem". Look, [COLOR=Red]if it were Chet instead of Sarah who had the same behaviour, he most probably wouldn't even resort to that.[/COLOR] He was so easy to shout down and INTIMIDATE Sarah because she is a girl. Chet and JD had a stupid argument in one previous episode where he came home drunk and started yapping about illegal immigrants without the proper command of English until Chet butted in and JD threatened him about his anger issues. Of course he's no match against Chet who's bigger than him.

[quote=jhl182;50295]Hmmmm Scott is confusing...well, i can't wait till the reunion now! lol. I hope i can go to one since i live in NYC.[/quote] I think if Scott as a friend of Sarah, he could stand up for her. Especially coming from the guy that got along with her the best out of all the guys, according to him. I chose my words carefully with Scott and feel a little angry towards him.

Being outed and lied to on national television is "no reason"? I think Katelyn has plenty of reasons to dislike JD, and I'm glad that she stood up to him and cussed him out. For someone to do all of that **** to you and then turn around and try to tell you what to do would definately be a cue to let loose. They did have other choices besides getting aggressive. No one should have to choose to not be violent, they should just BE not violent. I guess you also think Chris Brown had no choice but to beat down Rhianna because she ****** him off in some way? That train of thought is completely screwed up, sorry. If Devyn wanted to stay on the phone, that is her perogative. And it could have been the perogative of the person she was talking to to call the police because they heard all of the screaming and knew the phone was ripped out of her hands. Why would she want to go see what he wanted after he called her a drop out. He's been totally disrespectful to all of the girls and some of the guys too and if I were in that house I would ignore him 24/7. [quote=Julius;50222]The guys were definitely right... Kat was being ****** the whole time, JD came to her politely with the rules and she started cursing at him for no reason like "***K ur rules, ***k u and ur dolphins"... very mature and then when Scott came to her she did the same thing and started cursing at him... The guys had no choice but to start getting aggressive, like when JD ripped the phone out the wall, Devyn wouldn't have gotten the point unless he did that... she was going to stay on the phone[/quote]

Remember when I mentioned in a previous thread how some of the episodes coming up are extremely sexist? Welcome to the premier of it, episode 8. I really want to address a few things that I've seen here for this episode, starting with one of the most infuriating things from the girl's perspective. [QUOTE=jhl182;50280]none of them like Sarah and constantly say they're glad we got to see her true side,saying shes been like this for the past 2 1/2 months..hmm..im starting to think differently about Sarah after this episode and the after show.[/QUOTE] Umm, no. This is exactly what the girls were afraid would happen: the boys have this extremely skewed perspective on how things are and then the episode shows an edit like this and the train of thought is "see, this is how you've always been!". If you find that the production edits of the show reaffirm your beliefs about a specific person or situation, it's time to reevaluate those beliefs. Ryan's issues with Sarah stem from his inability to believe that anyone can be that genuine and nice all the time. As a result, he finds her to be fake and disingenuous, which is not the person she really is. [QUOTE=Julius;50222]The guys were definitely right... Kat was being a ****h the whole time, JD came to her politely with the rules and she started cursing at him for no reason like "***K ur rules, ***k u and ur dolphins"... very mature and then when Scott came to her she did the same thing and started cursing at him...[/QUOTE] You are seeing the wrong second of a two second conversation. They don't show Scott asking me nicely to wash my cup and me replying nicely, "I'll get to it when we finish our card game". They also don't show you him "asking" me, repeatedly, for the next half hour. It was one coffee cup, if it was that big of a deal he could have done it his **** self. [QUOTE=Hugs4MT;50191]Katelynn...I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when you try to talk "Ghetto Ebonics."[/QUOTE] I can't win for losing. They show clips of me being articulate and exercising my vocabulary and I'm "trying too hard to be intellectual" or I come off as "arrogant". When I just stop giving a *** I'm "trying to be ghetto". After 2.5 months in that house I realized that the boys were going to ignore me regardless of how well spoken I was. Frankly, they weren't worth the civil words at that point. The clips of the rotting fruit and sandwiches, that would be from the first week (notice how in the first episode of every season the house mates are eating subway? Yeah, those subs were from week one and guess what, the boys left them out too). I [B][I]hate[/I][/B] how they make girls out to be dirty ****** in this edit, like after the boys "set us straight" we just jumped into line. I can assure you, that's not at all how it was. The clips of us cleaning up were taken from a period of the first week up until two weeks after the fight actually happened. I also love how they neglect to show you Sarah waking up at 6am every morning and cleaning the house. They also don't show our little group pow-wow from week one [B]where we talked about cleanliness[/B]. In my personal life the two worst rooms for me are my bedroom and kitchen. I informed everyone as such from day 1. Between the 8 roommates we must have gone through 5 loads of dishes every day, so it's not exactly hard to get a shot of a draining board full of dishes or a stray plate in the sink. And when it comes to the rooms, Devyn and my room doesn't affect anyone but ourselves. And as for the gas in the car, there were plenty of mornings where, after the guys went out the night before while the girls stayed in playing cards, we received a car on empty. BMP had a promotion with BP Gas stations and the closest one to the house was miles away, it wasn't like we could just go to the Exxon down the street. Being forced to drive in NY is bad enough, try being told you can only fill up at specific station. Don't fool yourself, episode 8 was the episode that BMP wanted you to see and was in no way an accurate representation of how the girls routinely behaved. Sadly, this biased nonsense continues straight through to episode 11... Oh and uh, JD has thrown more things in the Hudson river during our production than the entire Italian mafia during the late '80s. And to think he used to ridicule and lecture me on "how to be a good role model"

[quote=Charlie;50300]Being outed and lied to on national television is "no reason"? I think Katelyn has plenty of reasons to dislike JD, and I'm glad that she stood up to him and cussed him out. For someone to do all of that **** to you and then turn around and try to tell you what to do would definately be a cue to let loose. They did have other choices besides getting aggressive. No one should have to choose to not be violent, they should just BE not violent. I guess you also think Chris Brown had no choice but to beat down Rhianna because she ****** him off in some way? That train of thought is completely screwed up, sorry. If Devyn wanted to stay on the phone, that is her perogative. And it could have been the perogative of the person she was talking to to call the police because they heard all of the screaming and knew the phone was ripped out of her hands. Why would she want to go see what he wanted after he called her a drop out. He's been totally disrespectful to all of the girls and some of the guys too and if I were in that house I would ignore him 24/7.[/quote] He came to her in a nice manner and she started cursing him out, and I would agree with you that JD does act like a snake, but did you see how Kat snapped on Scott when he politely asked her to do something? Kat is very disrespectful and immature. No I don't think they had to get violent, and no one was hurt in any of this. They had to just be more aggressive. The polite asking of the girls to help clean wasn't working, they had to start doing more aggressive things to get the point clear to them. As far as Devyn she's on the phone all day. If there's a big argument going on in the house and she's one of the roots of the problems, she should probably try to be part of the conversation that resolves it. Her ignoring JD was exactly why the guys were mad at the girls from the start. They would keep ignoring what was being said.