The Island: Episode 7 - Discussion

Originally going into this challenge I wanted Johnny and Derrick to be among the winners or at least get to the end. Johnny...I dunno if I want to win but Derrick...yeah I hope he pulls it out, Now while I agree that the way "The Alliance"(mainly Johnny) acted in general during this challenge just wasn't right, I also agree that they have played the game and have gotten into a dominate position because of it. To be honest Ev played the game too and hit many a thing during her time but she had virtually no support. Many were more concerned with there own game to risk being a target in case a "revolt" didn't work. My hopes are that Ev gets a key in the final face off and wins something for going through all she has this season. Colie...I actually liked her even though we barely saw her before this episode....still she should have known that "they" really wouldn't care if she got a key or not. And Ryan...Dunbar might have whined you to death but I doubt you would have been in that great a danger if you took his key.

Hey, I agree with V1 in saying Colie played one of the smartest games. Sure she didn' do anything, but isn't that the plan? Isn't that what got her far? Sure she waited pretty long to go in, but she knew she would get the chance. She is hands down, the smartest competitor on The Island. Ryan, I liked him, and I can't hold it against him for taking KellyAnne's key. But it was totally unfair, he could have taken Dunbar's key, Johnny's key, Kenny's key, but instead he thinks they let him have a spot? How does he know they will win the last face off and take his? TO me, it just read off as he was scared.

[quote=Dartagnan;35822]Hey, I agree with V1 in saying Colie played one of the smartest games. Sure she didn' do anything, but isn't that the plan? Isn't that what got her far? Sure she waited pretty long to go in, but she knew she would get the chance. She is hands down, the smartest competitor on The Island. Ryan, I liked him, and I can't hold it against him for taking KellyAnne's key. But it was totally unfair, he could have taken Dunbar's key, Johnny's key, Kenny's key, but instead he thinks they let him have a spot? How does he know they will win the last face off and take his? TO me, it just read off as he was scared.[/quote] Hey, I was really disappointed with Ryan. If he was too scared of Dunbar to take his key, he shouldn't have spent all that time whining about him and saying Dunbar's key should be taken away.

[quote=meonlyme25;35824]Hey, I was really disappointed with Ryan. If he was too scared of Dunbar to take his key, he shouldn't have spent all that time whining about him and saying Dunbar's key should be taken away.[/quote] I agree. It wasn't the fact that he took KellyAnne's key because he had the right, but the fact that he was saying how Dunbar doesn't deserve it and he needs to stop whining. That was his opportunity to take it.

I just makes me cringe to see both Ryan and Derrick succumb to the stupid Alliance's dirty, irrational game. I just hope the Duel II more than makes up for this. :\

[quote=cystic;35829]I just makes me cringe to see both Ryan and Derrick succumb to the stupid Alliance's dirty, irrational game. I just hope the Duel II more than makes up for this. :\[/quote] Like I said, I am almost positive this will be better than any Challenge since The Gauntlet 2. We all know alliances are going to be made regardless, but they will be less abundant with the casting they did.

[quote=Dartagnan;35822]Hey, I agree with V1 in saying Colie played one of the smartest games. Sure she didn' do anything, but isn't that the plan? Isn't that what got her far? Sure she waited pretty long to go in, but she knew she would get the chance. She is hands down, the smartest competitor on The Island. [/quote] Sadly, in this challenge, staying longer doesn't necessarily mean you "went far." In other team challenges, there may have been prizes for the team or player that won the mission, so staying longer might help. However, unless you go into a face-off, there is no difference between the first person to go home and the fifth person to reach the treasure chest, or the four that get left behind.

[quote=Moonpaw;35832]Sadly, in this challenge, staying longer doesn't necessarily mean you "went far." In other team challenges, there may have been prizes for the team or player that won the mission, so staying longer might help. However, unless you go into a face-off, there is no difference between the first person to go home and the fifth person to reach the treasure chest, or the four that get left behind.[/quote] It means everything. Wouldn't you rather say " I was the 7th eliminated" rather than being the first? There is a total difference. It means you had a better strategy. Plus, it means you had more friends. And I think she just went into a face off, so it kinda does matter what place she went home.

[QUOTE=cystic;35829]I just makes me cringe to see both Ryan and Derrick succumb to the stupid Alliance's dirty, irrational game. I just hope the Duel II more than makes up for this. :\[/QUOTE] I hate to question Derrick's motivation, but it should be no surprise to anyone that while he appeared in but somewhat outside the alliance, he was always in as the quiet #3 person with Paula, Johanna, Dummybear, Colie and Robin further outside the inner circle. (in that order in my opinion). Evelyn genuinely thought Derrick was being largely independent, but in fact he was playing everyone on the outside the entire time. So much for his integrity. The one connection he had with Evelyn was his pure love to compete. Sadly, it appears to me that in tonight's episode the see the fruition of a strategy that greatly tarnishes Derrick's "good guy" image in my mind. First, he tells us that he wants Cohutta in his boat, and later admits that the plan all along was to go into the faceoff to ensure Johnny got his key. Bye bye Cohutta. This is not the same Derrick I've supported and defended for his challenge work and in his personal life. I feel disappointed and somewhat let down. I'm sure he would say that winning the $75 K was the end goal justifying the means he employed to try to get there. In my mind, he stood, small in stature but large in heart. Sadly, for me Derrick became a little too human, and now a little tarnished.

[quote=V1man;35709]What does anyone (including viewers) stand to gain? Fairness. That is what the law demands. [/quote]Just out of curiousity though, does BMP find a backdoor to fairness laws by labeling the Challenge shows as "reality dramas" similar to the loophole that Allison Grodner uses?

[quote=V1man;35838]I hate to question Derrick's motivation, but it should be no surprise to anyone that while he appeared in but somewhat outside the alliance, he was always in as the quiet #3 person with Paula, Johanna, Dummybear, Colie and Robin further outside the inner circle. (in that order in my opinion). Evelyn genuinely thought Derrick was being largely independent, but in fact he was playing everyone on the outside the entire time. So much for his integrity. The one connection he had with Evelyn was his pure love to compete. Sadly, it appears to me that in tonight's episode the see the fruition of a strategy that greatly tarnishes Derrick's "good guy" image in my mind. First, he tells us that he wants Cohutta in his boat, and later admits that the plan all along was to go into the faceoff to ensure Johnny got his key. Bye bye Cohutta. This is not the same Derrick I've supported and defended for his challenge work and in his personal life. I feel disappointed and somewhat let down. I'm sure he would say that winning the $75 K was the end goal justifying the means he employed to try to get there. In my mind, he stood, small in stature but large in heart. Sadly, for me Derrick became a little too human, and now a little tarnished.[/quote] That was a really good post V1, and you kinda took the words and feelings right outta my mouth. I really have always liked Derrick, and I really pulled for him going into this, but during the course of this Challenge he has just shown his lack of care, which he used to have so much of. And really, he doesn't even care about the other people in his alliance by his comments made last night about not wanting Johanna or Colie in his boat. He has become sowrapped up in the game he has resorted to shady tactics when he doesn't need to. I doubt that anyone would vote him out, in the alliance or not. Sad day to see such a nice guy become so sneaky.

[quote=Dartagnan;35846]That was a really good post V1, and you kinda took the words and feelings right outta my mouth. [B]I really have always liked Derrick, and I really pulled for him going into this, but during the course of this Challenge he has just shown his lack of care, which he used to have so much of.[/B] And really, he doesn't even care about the other people in his alliance by his comments made last night about not wanting Johanna or Colie in his boat. He has become sowrapped up in the game he has resorted to shady tactics when he doesn't need to. I doubt that anyone would vote him out, in the alliance or not. Sad day to see such a nice guy become so sneaky.[/quote] I agree. Ever since the Gauntlet 2 when I saw him compete, I saw heart. I also don't see why he needs to be in an alliance. He pretty much is the challenge king on the Island.

[quote=Dartagnan;35835]It means everything. Wouldn't you rather say " I was the 7th eliminated" rather than being the first? There is a total difference. It means you had a better strategy. Plus, it means you had more friends. And I think she just went into a face off, so it kinda does matter what place she went home.[/quote] When I said that it matters about staying long enough to go into a face-off, I meant staying long enough to go into a face-off and win a prize. She might have stayed longer, but she won absolutely no more money or prizes than Abram, and unlike most other challenges, being there longer doesn't make you any closer to the grand prizes. I think people tend to forget that for this challenge, you need a key to get to the end, and not just be around.

[quote=Dartagnan;35835]It means everything. Wouldn't you rather say " I was the 7th eliminated" rather than being the first? There is a total difference. It means you had a better strategy. Plus, it means you had more friends. And I think she just went into a face off, so it kinda does matter what place she went home.[/quote] I have to disagree here. There is absolutely no difference between being the first out and the last out (except for a couple more pounds lost and a few bug bites gained). Colie's thought that one of the stronger guys was going to volunteer himself for the faceoff with the risk that something could happen to them or someone could turn on them was just ridiculous. And while they didn't know this going in, waiting until the end ended up costing Jo and Colie a chance at the 75k. Had they gone early, they would have easily had to votes to get into either of the two key all-girl challenges (they would have gotten more nominations than Rachel or KellyAnne in the first challange or Jen or Ashli in the second). If they are in either of those faceoffs, they are getting keys regardless of whether they win or lose. And while they didn't know the exact layout of the game, one of the so-called smartest player in the game should have been able to figure out there was going to be a twist in the game once the 8 keys were out and try to pre-empt that twist.

[QUOTE=PaperClip529;35862]... one of the so-called smartest player in the game should have been able to figure out there was going to be a twist in the game once the 8 keys were out and try to pre-empt that twist.[/QUOTE] ORLY? I don't for a minute believe that BMP knew what twists they would have to throw at the cast at the beginning of the season because they expected a very different game to unfold. They had to invent new rules on the fly as the game evolved. Maybe StonedWorld can enlighten us on what happened on the production side. Just off the top of my head, I can think of about 10 equally interesting twists (and wrote about some early on in the season) so I don't know how you can Monday-morning quarterback your way into saying someone should have been able to figure it out.

I don't disagree with the fact that there could have been a ton of different twists, but people had to know that there would be [I]some[/I] kind of twist. I knew it when the season started, if only because there were too many episodes for the number of face-offs necessary to give out all the keys, and it would be far too boring to just watch them drink and bicker for a month. I didn't know what that twist was, but I knew there would be something. Besides, one could argue that, in this case, it would be best to wait until the end so that no one else could steal your key.

Does anyone else think Ryan is shady? He pretends to be friends with everyone on the Island, but he seems like a manipulator. I remember Shane said a lot of things about him in an aftershow, and I think Shane is right.

[quote=Moonpaw;35855]When I said that it matters about staying long enough to go into a face-off, I meant staying long enough to go into a face-off and win a prize. She might have stayed longer, but she won absolutely no more money or prizes than Abram, and unlike most other challenges, being there longer doesn't make you any closer to the grand prizes. I think people tend to forget that for this challenge, you need a key to get to the end, and not just be around.[/quote] I do remember reading that the ROOKIES get paid weekly!

[QUOTE=Jimmy;35912]I do remember reading that the ROOKIES get paid weekly![/QUOTE] You are right. And that is part of the inherent unfairness here. (This is not equal pay for equal work for you Obama people... ( The veterans only need to be there until they are formally eliminated under the rules (ie, Tonya, Abram and Johanna are paid the same appearance fee), while the rookies are paid weekly (based on a production week, not episodically) based on the longevity of their survival. That is why Paula's effort to bring Dunbar into the protection of the alliance puts him in her financial debt. If you quick and walk away, the "payment due" clause of your contract is voided and may also result in you having to repay BMP for ALL the identifiable costs associated with your appearance on the show.

I understand that maybe more than one people here know the cast members personally...I, as a viewer, could not really tell who the 2 smartest people in the island were...Smart people are not really what I expect to see when I watch MTV...Don't get me wrong...People like Jo come across to me as...normal? not necesarily smart...Now, about Colie, I did not have an idea she would be considered smart...I hardly saw her in this challenge and she was not really exactly portrayed as smart in her real world season...Her latest dailies are good, she has good points...but she is just normal to me...On the other hand, there are a lot of dummies there, but oh well, this is entertainment I guess...At the end, reality shows are about seeing people on tv with a lot of issues because viewers like to see people like train wreck Robin or Dan and their alcoholic problems, so they can think of themselves as normal...Anyway, just an opinion :cool:

[quote=V1man;35895]ORLY? I don't for a minute believe that BMP knew what twists they would have to throw at the cast at the beginning of the season because they expected a very different game to unfold. They had to invent new rules on the fly as the game evolved. Maybe StonedWorld can enlighten us on what happened on the production side. Just off the top of my head, I can think of about 10 equally interesting twists (and wrote about some early on in the season) so I don't know how you can Monday-morning quarterback your way into saying someone should have been able to figure it out.[/quote] I think it's easy to play MMQB here. They were told there were eight keys at the start of the show and everyone knew that at the beginning they were flying off the shelf at two per faceoff. Any two-year-old can tell you that those keys were going to be gone pretty quickly. Now if you were a somewhat smart player, you would have tried to get those keys at the beginning because the twist could have been anything (even though i think T.J. made it pretty clear that those keys would have to be won in a faceoff) and I'm pretty sure that it's a smart move to go into those twists with a key. All I am saying is that I find it tough to believe that Colie was one of the smartest players in the game because she struck out big time when she could have all but been handed a trip to the island (assuming that she indeed was part of the alliance).

I have a feeling Colie was sorta just there. I don't think she expected to last long. When she did, I think she wanted in on the action. That's just how I read her. Of course, thanks to editing, it's sometimes hard to read a cast members true intentions. I could be way off base.

[QUOTE=PaperClip529;35936] All I am saying is that I find it tough to believe that Colie was one of the smartest players in the game because she struck out big time when she could have all but been handed a trip to the island (assuming that she indeed was part of the alliance).[/QUOTE] 1) She was part of the alliance through Johanna, just as Dummybear was part of it through Paula 2) While you may find her intelligence difficult to fathom, I don't. She was a scholarship student and an honors grad from an excellent university. I trust her degree granting institution far more than I believe in the integrity of BMP's editors.

[quote=V1man;35943]1) She was part of the alliance through Johanna, just as Dummybear was part of it through Paula 2) While you may find her intelligence difficult to fathom, I don't. She was a scholarship student and an honors grad from an excellent university. I trust her degree granting institution far more than I believe in the integrity of BMP's editors.[/quote] She indeed may be book smart but books don't win you this game, especially when there has only been one face-off with a puzzle and it's a stretch calling that 4 keys game a puzzle. In order to get ahead in most challenges you have to either physically gifted or street smart and when it comes to those things, it is pretty clear that Colie (now 0-2 in faceoff events in her two stints on RR/RW challenges) is not at the head of the class.

[QUOTE=PaperClip529;35956]She indeed may be book smart but books don't win you this game, especially when there has only been one face-off with a puzzle and it's a stretch calling that 4 keys game a puzzle. In order to get ahead in most challenges you have to either physically gifted or street smart and when it comes to those things, it is pretty clear that Colie (now 0-2 in faceoff events in her two stints on RR/RW challenges) is not at the head of the class.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the education. I didn't realize that I was so incompetent in my thought processes.

Colie being kicked off the Island really had nothing to do with her intelligence, I agree she is a smart cookie. It had more to do with the face that few in that Alliance really cared if she got a key or not over people they deemed stronger. She simply got the short end of the stick. Now Derrick really surprised me how he has went along with Johnny's thinking and how we have seen how deeply involved in the Alliance he is especially over these last few weeks.

[quote=V1man;35943]1) She was part of the alliance through Johanna, just as Dummybear was part of it through Paula 2) While you may find her intelligence difficult to fathom, I don't. She was a scholarship student and an honors grad from an excellent university. I trust her degree granting institution far more than I believe in the integrity of BMP's editors.[/quote] As a simple tv viewer, I did not know that information about Colie and it's pretty good and refreshing to hear this :) However, I graduated with honors all my life, all the way to my Master's...And I know several people that have, and it is pretty good but it does not make you the smartest person all around...Most people in the island played the game pretty poorly in my eyes...

if any of the non-alliance people had any balls they could have turned the game around a long time ago. the only parts of this show that i have really enjoyed was watching ev take johnnys key, and the twist of this weeks episode. oh i forgot jo and robins fight....i loved the clip of her calling out jo on the gauntlet 3 win...which she did not deserve IMO. I am not even a fan of Ev until now. Actually this show has turned a lot of my favorite cast members into people i hope to never see again, and vice versa.

[QUOTE=lalalamilf;35977]if any of the non-alliance people had any balls they could have turned the game around a long time ago. the only parts of this show that i have really enjoyed was watching ev take johnnys key, and the twist of this weeks episode. oh i forgot jo and robins fight....i loved the clip of her calling out jo on the gauntlet 3 win...which she did not deserve IMO. I am not even a fan of Ev until now. Actually this show has turned a lot of my favorite cast members into people i hope to never see again, and vice versa.[/QUOTE] Welcome. Isn't it amazing what a little power does to the ego of some people? They often fail to recognize that their actions do affect our perceptions of them. Not everyone watching is blindly hoping to sleep with one of them though that is one perception they receive from their fan base.

[quote=V1man;35988]Welcome. Isn't it amazing what a little power does to the ego of some people? They often fail to recognize that their actions do affect our perceptions of them. Not everyone watching is blindly hoping to sleep with one of them though that is one perception they receive from their fan base.[/quote] *Shiver* Is that really what people like Johnny and Kenny think?!