[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;315970]This is purely speculation, but I'm guessing they wanted this 1 to be JEK free. As for why laurel wasn't on the team, maybe they thought that putting her on would make them too stacked (I'm guessing thats why they didn't put leroy and alton together on the vegas team). Also, I think its possible that the next challenge they want to do a ruins 2 and they don't want the challengers team to suck like last time, so they can at least have CT, Leroy, Ty, Laurel, and Emily without wins going into next season.[/QUOTE]
That would be great with this cast, but I think the next one will be a gauntlet 4 or something like that
[QUOTE=El Scorcho;315979]You mean like how Evan did on The Duel 2? Pretty much the most stacked a guys cast has ever been: Brad, Mark, Landon, CT, MJ, Eric, etc.
Or Like how Kenny did on Fresh Meat II?
Or like how Johnny did on Battle of the Exes?
Yeah they haven't done anything! They suck![/QUOTE]
Kenny had the best partner on FM2, Landon had debatably the worst. Landon won, Kenny lost.
Duel 2 most stacked?! Are you kidding me?! Duel 1 had a better cast than Duel 2 and Evan lost that.
Yeah Johnny had a big alliance to ensure that he'd go last on every mission, that REALLY shows how great he is. First time he had to go first, he came in last.
They're not bad, but there's a lot of other circumstances that go into them doing well.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;315978]The Gauntlet II Susie played a perfect strategic game
The Inferno III she played a perfect strategic game (when you get others to agree to throw you the LS that's brilliant)
The Ruins she played a perfect strategic game
She ran the Ruins with Evan, Kenny & Johanna....Derrick was next. Johnny (notice who went into the Ruins) was 6th on that teams priority list. He was not running that show at all.
Notice Kenny, Derrick & Evan sided with Susie at the end--not Johnny. Why is that? They knew Susie could beat KellyAnne and if she did she'd throw the final mission out of spite. Who won the most money during the Ruins? Susie reaches every final. Johnny can't say that, Kenny can't say that nor can Evan. Susie has the game mastered whether you like her or not is irrelevant. Just like those that don't like JEK don't give them enough credit.[/QUOTE]
Gauntlet II she didn't have to do anything except not get called out by Kina. I'll give you the Inferno 3 and the ruins, even though she was definitely not above johnny in the alliance's pecking order (I'm pretty sure on 1 of derricks pods they talked about the reason Johnny had to go against dunbar in the last elimination is because kenny and derrick had to sacrifice for him on the island, so him going in was his way of paying them back). She won the most money on the ruins because she had to go into the last 2 eliminations because there were no girls left. And ya Susie has made every final, but she's only been on 3 with eliminations (her first 1 didn't). I'm not saying Susie isn't a good player, but you can't just say she's better than JEK because she's gone 3 times in a row without being eliminated. I guarantee if she had been on something like 8 challenges with eliminations like Kenny or Johnny, she'd probably have made 4 or 5 finals, but I doubt she could ever go 7 for 8.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;315987]Gauntlet II she didn't have to do anything except not get called out by Kina. I'll give you the Inferno 3 and the ruins, even though she was definitely not above johnny in the alliance's pecking order (I'm pretty sure on 1 of derricks pods they talked about the reason Johnny had to go against dunbar in the last elimination is because kenny and derrick had to sacrifice for him on the island, so him going in was his way of paying them back). She won the most money on the ruins because she had to go into the last 2 eliminations because there were no girls left. And ya Susie has made every final, but she's only been on 3 with eliminations (her first 1 didn't). I'm not saying Susie isn't a good player, but you can't just say she's better than JEK because she's gone 3 times in a row without being eliminated. I guarantee if she had been on something like 8 challenges with eliminations like Kenny or Johnny, she'd probably have made 4 or 5 finals, but I doubt she could ever go 7 for 8.[/QUOTE]
Susie is undefeated in elimination rounds and plays a great strategical game
I put her ahead of Johnny for sure--I can put her on par with Kenny & Evan strategically but they aren't better--those 3 are great.
Kenny, Evan nor Johnny reached a final in all 3 of their first 3 challenges. So, Susie even doing that is impressive--same with Emily going 2 for 2 and Laurel going 3 for 3. It's nearly impossible to pull that off.
[QUOTE=kvm1977;315988]Susie is undefeated in elimination rounds and plays a great strategical game
I put her ahead of Johnny for sure--I can put her on par with Kenny & Evan strategically but they aren't better--those 3 are great.
Kenny, Evan nor Johnny reached a final in their first 3 tries. So, Susie even doing that is impressive--same with Emily going 2 for 2 and Laurel going 3 for 3. It's nearly impossible to pull that off.[/QUOTE]
Shes only been on team challenges, Kenny and Evan had to fresh meat then the duel, and johnnys first challenge was the duel. I doubt that susie would have made the duel final as a rookie. Its definitely harder to make finals in partners or individual challenges, and Susies never been on 1 so shes never been in a very hard strategic game.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;315991]Shes only been on team challenges, Kenny and Evan had to fresh meat then the duel, and johnnys first challenge was the duel. I doubt that susie would have made the duel final as a rookie. Its definitely harder to make finals in partners or individual challenges, and Susies never been on 1 so shes never been in a very hard strategic game.[/QUOTE]
This is all nonsense--you try to claim other people are biased against JEK but clearly you're unwilling to admit others are great--again, even EVAN said that Susie is better at this game than Johnny--she is--there's no doubt about that at all.
Johnny twice failed to make a final in a team competition--The Gauntlet III (first home by his friend EVAN) and Cutthroat.
Susie > Johnny at this game. Susie = Evan & Kenny strategically.
You're showing bias here yet attacking others for the same thing
[QUOTE=kvm1977;315992]This is all nonsense--you try to claim other people are biased against JEK but clearly you're unwilling to admit others are great--again, even EVAN said that Susie is better at this game than Johnny--she is--there's no doubt about that at all.
Johnny twice failed to make a final in a team competition--The Gauntlet III (first home by his friend EVAN) and Cutthroat.
Susie > Johnny at this game. Susie = Evan & Kenny strategically.
You're showing bias here yet attacking others for the same thing[/QUOTE]
What? I said I think Susie is a good player, I just don't think she's better than JEK. I think Johnny has become a much better strategic player than he was in his early years, but you might be right that Susie is as good or better strategically than him. Just because I have an opinion that I back up with facts doesn't mean I'm biased. Don't confuse me with some of these other people who just say people suck because they don't like them.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;315994]What? I said I think Susie is a good player, I just don't think she's better than JEK. I think Johnny has become a much better strategic player than he was in his early years, but you might be right that Susie is as good or better strategically than him. Just because I have an opinion that I back up with facts doesn't mean I'm biased. Don't confuse me with some of these other people who just say people suck because they don't like them.[/QUOTE]
You've tried to discredit everything Susie has done--only 3 challenges, they were team challenges, etc yet when I can point out Johnny failed to accomplish the same things she did on team challenges you dismiss it.
What Susie has done in those challenges proves that she's on the elite level--she's not Evelyn, Laurel or Emily but she still finds a way to win elimination rounds and avoid getting sent to them at all cost. And, unlike Johnny, she doesn't freak out when she has to go in. Remember him during the Gauntlet III, Rivals (the final elimination), The Ruins and The Duel freaking out because he had to go in.
I think you're letting your bias toward Johnny dramatically impact your view of this. Again, even Evan stated that Johnny was just mad because someone was better at this game than him. And Evan was right--that's why Johnny hated her. And it even annoyed him more that it was a girl. Coral & Susie are the only great female strategists. Maybe Veronica but it took her a while to reach that level. Maybe Jenn too--she did master avoiding elimination rounds
[QUOTE=Nightwolf;315986]Kenny had the best partner on FM2, Landon had debatably the worst. Landon won, Kenny lost.
Duel 2 most stacked?! Are you kidding me?! Duel 1 had a better cast than Duel 2 and Evan lost that.
Yeah Johnny had a big alliance to ensure that he'd go last on every mission, that REALLY shows how great he is. First time he had to go first, he came in last.
They're not bad, but there's a lot of other circumstances that go into them doing well.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more with you. And lets be honest during duel 2 he still made his alliance . and the only guys he eliminated are people like Davis and Nehemiah. Like wat Nehemiah said about Evan during duel 2: 'He's being a *****'. During Exes Johnny was lucky there was no hate between him and Camilla and that they could get well along with each other in contrary to the other exes. As soon as CT and Diem were a litte more friendly to each other Johnny didnt win ****.
However they are still good overall players but they cant match players like CT, Alton and Landon
I agree with you that those are the 4 best female strategists to ever play the game. I JUST said that I think it is possible that Susie is as good or a better strategist than Johnny. But I think if you're comparing who is a better overall player, I would definitely take Johnny. To me the last 2 challenges for Johnny pushes him over the top of Susie because of all the great teams he had to beat (Kenny/Wes, CT/Adam, Mark/Robin, CT/Diem, Ty/Emily. I know he had good partners in both challenges, but winning a partner challenge is much more impressive than winning a team challenge. I think you have to think about it this way: if someone was thrown into a situation like Kenny was on fresh meat 2 or wes on the ruins and fresh meat where almost everyone was against them, how likely do you think it would be for them to survive. I think the only people that could survive a situation like that are JEK (they have all been targets at 1 point, Bananas on the island, evan on d2, kenny on fm2), Landon (didn't have any friends on fm2), Ev, Emily, and Laurel (just because there by far the best girl competitors), and then maybe Mark in his prime,Alton, CT, Miz back in the day, and Wes pre-Ruins. I don't think in a situation like that Susie would be a good enough competitor to win enough to keep herself safe or be able to rally enough people to stay in, but I think Johnny is a good enough competitor and strategist that he'd have a better chance at staying around. Maybe thats a weird way of thinking about it, but I think it makes sense.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;316000]I agree with you that those are the 4 best female strategists to ever play the game. I JUST said that I think it is possible that Susie is as good or a better strategist than Johnny. But I think if you're comparing who is a better overall player, I would definitely take Johnny. To me the last 2 challenges for Johnny pushes him over the top of Susie because of all the great teams he had to beat (Kenny/Wes, CT/Adam, Mark/Robin, CT/Diem, Ty/Emily. I know he had good partners in both challenges, but winning a partner challenge is much more impressive than winning a team challenge. I think you have to think about it this way: if someone was thrown into a situation like Kenny was on fresh meat 2 or wes on the ruins and fresh meat where almost everyone was against them, how likely do you think it would be for them to survive. I think the only people that could survive a situation like that are JEK (they have all been targets at 1 point, Bananas on the island, evan on d2, kenny on fm2), Landon (didn't have any friends on fm2), Ev, Emily, and Laurel (just because there by far the best girl competitors), and then maybe Mark in his prime,Alton, CT, Miz back in the day, and Wes pre-Ruins. I don't think in a situation like that Susie would be a good enough competitor to win enough to keep herself safe or be able to rally enough people to stay in, but I think Johnny is a good enough competitor and strategist that he'd have a better chance at staying around. Maybe thats a weird way of thinking about it, but I think it makes sense.[/QUOTE]
But now you're talking about who the better competitor is--I'm saying Susie's the better strategist. If you want to say overall Johnny's better I can agree with that but he's not a better strategist.
Susie UNDERSTANDS the game in a way few do--every decision she makes is calculated (just like Evan other than Rivals)--Johnny doesn't do that all the time--sometimes he makes personal decisions...see him going after Rachel & Aneesa which made no sense--you want them in the final mission.
Better strategist--Susie
Better player to have with you in a final--Johnny
I'm not sure who is better in a one-on-one situation....that's a toss-up. Susie couldn't beat people like Evelyn, Laurel or Emily but Johnny couldn't beat Landon, CT, Alton, Darrell, etc either.
Susie is someone you have to essentially carry in a final but I was never saying she's a better overall player--just a better strategist.
OK well we're basically saying the same thing at this point. You say she's a better strategist than johnny, i say maybe but maybe not. Whatever. Good debate my friend, I hadn't had a good challenge argument in a minute. My last controversial statement regarding susie v. johnny: I think that Susie is the 2nd best female PLAYER in challenge history (besides ev), and I think Johnny is the 3rd best guy PLAYER ever (behind Kenny and Landon). Everyones gonna say no way johnny should be that high, and i will debate those haters all day.
The only way the Quack Oack survives (and it's a very very very slim chance) it all hinders on Shane winning POV and how badly does Frank want Dan out of the house.
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;316002]OK well we're basically saying the same thing at this point. You say she's a better strategist than johnny, i say maybe but maybe not. Whatever. Good debate my friend, I hadn't had a good challenge argument in a minute. My last controversial statement regarding susie v. johnny: I think that Susie is the 2nd best female PLAYER in challenge history (besides ev), and I think Johnny is the 3rd best guy PLAYER ever (behind Kenny and Landon). Everyones gonna say no way johnny should be that high, and i will debate those haters all day.[/QUOTE]
I don't hate Johnny but I don't think he's that high
[QUOTE=Anonymousss;315999]I couldn't agree more with you. And lets be honest during duel 2 he still made his alliance . and the only guys he eliminated are people like Davis and Nehemiah. Like wat Nehemiah said about Evan during duel 2: 'He's being a *****'. During Exes Johnny was lucky there was no hate between him and Camilla and that they could get well along with each other in contrary to the other exes. [B]As soon as CT and Diem were a litte more friendly to each other Johnny didnt win ****.[/B]
However they are still good overall players but they cant match players like CT, Alton and Landon[/QUOTE]
CT and Diem only won the last two challenges, and Johnny won the final AND he had the worst girl of the three (Diem, Emily, Camila).
It's easy to discredit any win because it does take a lot of luck just like the Iron Pony competition.
Example: The only reason Darrell won 4 challenges is because he stays in the background and does decent in the missions to where no one would even think to put him up. He also had friends on Inferno, Gauntlet, and Fresh Meat that kept him out of eliminations. Also on Fresh Meat, he had the most athletic girl and the smartest girl. She did the puzzles (and he didn't do anything) and the prizes were to drop weight, which made it a lot easier. Whereas Kenny had Tina, and Wes had Casey... And on Inferno 2, Darrell was never even seen as a threat on the Good Guys team. Mike and Landon were the ones the other team were going after. And when Darrell should've went in against Abram in the inferno, they decided to draw names instead of calling him out. Even he said he should've went in. Now if that were Johnny, people would call him a punk, coward, and such... for not volunteering.
But yet, people think Darrell is one of the greatest ever while discrediting Johnny. I actually think Johnny's 4 wins are more impressive because of the difficulty of the challenges now.
Also, no one questions Derrick's 2 wins when he practically hid behind Johnny and Kenny on Island and Ruins. They did the dirty work taking all the heat, all Derrick had to do was what every they decided and be quiet. So I think people just don't like JEK, therefore they nitpick every little thing but don't realize that they aren't the only ones who have luck and friends on their side.
The big difference is that Derrick and Darrell are far more likeable than JEK, therefore people want them to win and when they do, it's seen as more "deserved" than when a "villain" wins.
[QUOTE=Fluttershy;316010]CT and Diem only won the last two challenges, and Johnny won the final AND he had the worst girl of the three (Diem, Emily, Camila).
It's easy to discredit any win because it does take a lot of luck just like the Iron Pony competition.
Example: The only reason Darrell won 4 challenges is because he stays in the background and does decent in the missions to where no one would even think to put him up. He also had friends on Inferno, Gauntlet, and Fresh Meat that kept him out of eliminations. Also on Fresh Meat, he had the most athletic girl and the smartest girl. She did the puzzles (and he didn't do anything) and the prizes were to drop weight, which made it a lot easier. Whereas Kenny had Tina, and Wes had Casey... And on Inferno 2, Darrell was never even seen as a threat on the Good Guys team. Mike and Landon were the ones the other team were going after. And when Darrell should've went in against Abram in the inferno, they decided to draw names instead of calling him out. Even he said he should've went in. Now if that were Johnny, people would call him a punk, coward, and such... for not volunteering.
But yet, people think Darrell is one of the greatest ever while discrediting Johnny. I actually think Johnny's 4 wins are more impressive because of the difficulty of the challenges now.
Also, no one questions Derrick's 2 wins when he practically hid behind Johnny and Kenny on Island and Ruins. They did the dirty work taking all the heat, all Derrick had to do was what every they decided and be quiet. So I think people just don't like JEK, therefore they nitpick every little thing but don't realize that they aren't the only ones who have luck and friends on their side.
The big difference is that Derrick and Darrell are far more likeable than JEK, therefore people want them to win and when they do, it's seen as more "deserved" than when a "villain" wins.[/QUOTE]
Yeah Ct/Diem won the last challenge because they made peace before these 2 challenges, if they made peace earlier they had won more. One advantage Johnny had over CT is that he is used to those ridiculous long final challenge. CT thought it would be like a final challenge in gauntlet 3. And besides he smokes to, so thats why he gassed out. Imagine a girl is pushing CT to keep going..... yeah so CT and Diem should in that challenge
I despise Johnny...but even I can't argue with the fact that he's one of the best to play the game. To be one of the best you have to be more than just muscle and athleticism. You have to know HOW to play the game too - and Johnny usually knows how to play each game inside and out. He's the one controlling literally everyone on every season he's on. How can you argue that he isn't the complete package when it comes to these shows? Like I said, I can't stand him, but I gotta give the guy credit where it's due.
[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;316029]Derricks first win; Inferno 3, he didn't cling onto JKE or did he? I know Kenny was a newbie with no power at all and Johnny was on a different team.[/QUOTE]
I really can't recall much from that challenge, I have it on DVD but haven't gotten around to watching it yet. Too busy writing MLP fan fiction.
[QUOTE=Anonymousss;316024]Yeah Ct/Diem won the last challenge because they made peace before these 2 challenges, [B]if they made peace earlier they had won more. [/B]One advantage Johnny had over CT is that he is used to those ridiculous long final challenge. CT thought it would be like a final challenge in gauntlet 3. And besides he smokes to, so thats why he gassed out. Imagine a girl is pushing CT to keep going..... yeah so CT and Diem should in that challenge[/QUOTE]
There's no way any of us, not even Princess Celestia would know that now. It didn't happen. However, Aneesa did say that Johnny was one of the only men on that challenge to compliment his partner and constantly let her know that he wouldn't be doing as well without her. Where she drove him crazy or not, he didn't let it affect their game...
[QUOTE=wutzrenzi;316029]Derricks first win; Inferno 3, he didn't cling onto JKE or did he? I know Kenny was a newbie with no power at all and Johnny was on a different team.[/QUOTE]
He didn't do anything special, he beat Davis in an elimination and didn't win any life shields. He did come in out of shape though, so give him credit for at least pulling his weight. Derrick's best season will always be gauntlet 2 even though he didn't make the finals.
I think the reason why Johnny worked well with Camila on Exes is because they weren't exactly exes and they highly benefited them when it came to working together as a team, especially in the final. Even when they had to stay in sleep in tents overnight, they slept together to 'make it warmer', if they were really exes, as Emily said "I would freeze to death before I sleep with Ty again".
CT and Diem were still on bad terms when the challenge started, (from what I saw on the show) they didn't seem to work together like a team until towards the end of the challenge. Emily and Ty hated each other (or at least, she hated him) and that is a major reason why they did terrible in the final.
[QUOTE=El Scorcho;315979]You mean like how Evan did on The Duel 2? Pretty much the most stacked a guys cast has ever been: Brad, Mark, Landon, CT, MJ, Eric, etc.
Or Like how Kenny did on Fresh Meat II?
Or like how Johnny did on Battle of the Exes?
Yeah they haven't done anything! They suck![/QUOTE]
Brad isn't that good.
Mark is OK.
Landon got eliminated because of Brad's ***** move, he would've won the entire season had Brad not done that.
MJ is pretty meh. He's big, but that's about it.
Eric is one of the worst male competitors of all time.
CT? Are you really gonna put CT on the list?
[QUOTE=philipstyrer;316126]Brad isn't that good.
Mark is OK.
Landon got eliminated because of Brad's ***** move, he would've won the entire season had Brad not done that.
MJ is pretty meh. He's big, but that's about it.
Eric is one of the worst male competitors of all time.
CT? Are you really gonna put CT on the list?[/QUOTE]
What was Brad's "*****" move, throwing the hook at the end of the elimination? That didn't cost Landon the win, it was him being ******** and not being able to hook a flag on. Also, how can you say Brad isn't that good and Mark is OK? If there was a challenge hall of fame they both would be in it. And Eric is not even close to the worst male competitor of all time. Just because he's 900 pounds and passed out during a final doesn't make him terrible, he's actually underrated. Im not saying the duel 2 was the most stacked guy cast of all time, it was definitely the duel 1 (the 1st 3 guys eliminated that season were Bananas, Tyler, and Kenny).
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;316162]What was Brad's "*****" move, throwing the hook at the end of the elimination? That didn't cost Landon the win, it was him being ******** and not being able to hook a flag on. Also, how can you say Brad isn't that good and Mark is OK? If there was a challenge hall of fame they both would be in it. And Eric is not even close to the worst male competitor of all time. Just because he's [B]900 pounds[/B] and passed out during a final doesn't make him terrible, he's actually underrated. Im not saying the duel 2 was the most stacked guy cast of all time, it was definitely the duel 1 (the 1st 3 guys eliminated that season were Bananas, Tyler, and Kenny).[/QUOTE]
O__o Lol!!!!
[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;316162]What was Brad's "*****" move, throwing the hook at the end of the elimination? That didn't cost Landon the win, it was him being ******** and not being able to hook a flag on. Also, how can you say Brad isn't that good and Mark is OK? [B]If there was a challenge hall of fame they both would be in it.[/B] [/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=ChallengeGod;316162]What was Brad's "*****" move, throwing the hook at the end of the elimination? That didn't cost Landon the win, it was him being ******** and not being able to hook a flag on. Also, how can you say Brad isn't that good and Mark is OK? If there was a challenge hall of fame they both would be in it. And Eric is not even close to the worst male competitor of all time. Just because he's 900 pounds and passed out during a final doesn't make him terrible, he's actually underrated. Im not saying the duel 2 was the most stacked guy cast of all time, it was definitely the duel 1 (the 1st 3 guys eliminated that season were Bananas, Tyler, and Kenny).[/QUOTE]
Mark's only gone into one elimination round ever and lost. I would call him "great"--he's just the Godfather of the game. I can see someone saying he's just "okay" as a competitor but he is a great player. JMO but Mark doesn't jump to my mind when I think of great competitors and I'm old enough to remember his Road Rules season
I am so happy Alton & Trishelle are back on the challenge. They haven't done a challenge together since 2003's The Gauntlet. They're not my favorite old schoolers but at least they're back. now we just need to have next challenge bring back Coral, Tina, Tonya, Veronica, Julie, Adam- RR10, Emily- RR2, Ayanna, James & Shane. If they could come back together again on a challenge it would be epic. they would start drama with the new kids
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